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thanks for the report pal.
Loren, is still confused about Lincoln, not being able to surpass Cadillac, with its new quality offerings. Maybe one day he will test drive one and fall in love like this once devout GM/Caddy fan. :P
Rocky
Rocky
The only thing hinted as coming is the schizophrenic MKS which will definitely have a V-6 or maybe a V-8 or perhaps a TT V-6 when it comes out in 2007,2008,2009 or 2010.
I'll bet Cadillac is scared.
Note: The above post was in response to Rocky's previous post (which has been edited about 5 times) in which he said there was "no way Cadillac could ever compete with Lincolns new quailty offerings"
They already are scared because the MKX, is way better than the SRX, the MKZ is twice the vehicle the CTS, ever was and the MKS, will be what the STS/DTS, dreamed of being. The Navigator is a worthy competitor to the Escalade. The only missing link is the Lincoln Mark LT, which I'm confident will be a better Sierra Denali/Escalade EXT competitor :P
Lincoln, on like Cadillac at the momment has actually Reached Higher :P
Rocky
Speaking of editing you just did the same with this brand new line.
Cadillac, hasn't or will not compete with Lincoln new line-up in the terms of price. Lincoln, like Acura has become the brand of where the consumer gets more car for the money. Cadillac, has went upmarket in price, but not in its product offering. The Lincoln MKZ, has a interior that is light years ahead of Cadillacs finest offerings. Look at Wards award for further reference scootertrash.
Rocky
To each his own, I guess, but may I point out again that Cadillac isn't the one with the big market share loss these past few years? And you know yourself that the 2008 CTS isn't the only new thing coming down the pike from Cadillac.
So whatever Lincoln does for the next few years will have to be catchup. And, BTW, I hope they do, because Lincoln often did have a better way of going, even if Cadillac was practically always more popular. But I haven't seen anything yet that is going to set the world beyond Rocky on fire. I really really wish I did.
gregg, if it wasn't for the Escalade, and some how miracle selling current CTS, Cadillac would be in the same boat as Lincoln. I don't think they are significantly better cars but a great interior, gadgetology., at a great price thousands below Cadillac and Lexus, is a start. It works for Honda, just look at Acura. Now granted Ford needs to build new platforms which needs to be good enough for Lincoln, but at the same time be high volume enough to keep costs down. If it's a great platform, and if the company can save money on it I'm all for it. This also allows the company, to concentrate on interior design, gadgetology., and even touches like available AWD at a low price. If Lincoln/Ford/Volvo, can develop few platforms but make the ones they have great I see no harm in it. Again if it adds value to the consumer.
To each his own, I guess, but may I point out again that Cadillac isn't the one with the big market share loss these past few years? And you know yourself that the 2008 CTS isn't the only new thing coming down the pike from Cadillac.
Well how much is that new CTS going to cost us ? I love GM, but their cars are getting very pricey for what you get. Where's the ventilated seats, DVD-Audio surround sound, the quality engine, 6-speed automatic, adaptive cruise, swivel headlamps, pre-collision, etc, etc, for that $45K sticker price ????? The CTS, isn't much of a value IMHO. The 2008' could be better but we will see. The MKS however looks like it will undercut the STS by several thousands and be a helluva car, for the money. If Ford, keeps to it words of adding even more Gadgets one might be parked in my garage. A 3.7 Twin Turbo engine with paddle shifters or some other manumatic with a boost gauge with 350-400 hp. would be very impressive. GM, needs to overhaul the old Northstar, and make it a modern OHC like the Japanese. Both GM, and Ford, desperately need new modern engines.
So whatever Lincoln does for the next few years will have to be catchup.
Catch up to who ? The MKZ, is better and several thousands cheaper than the CTS, The MKX, is better than the SRX and cheaper too, The Navigator is almost as nice as the Escalade, but does lack the engine. However it to is cheaper. Lexus, is over-priced in some segments but like Mercedes, they are more of a status symbol.
And, BTW, I hope they do, because Lincoln often did have a better way of going, even if Cadillac was practically always more popular.
I'm not exactly sure what you meant by this ? :confuse:
But I haven't seen anything yet that is going to set the world beyond Rocky on fire. I really really wish I did.
Is Lincoln suppose to set the world on fire like lets say a BMW M3 or M5 ? I suppose they could build one to compete but then at what cost ?
Lincoln, has flat out "reached higher" for 2007, than any other luxury brand. I see a positive future for Lincoln and perhaps this Alan Maulkey? the new Ford CEO, will be the difference maker.
We will see soon....
Rocky
In sum, I hope you are right and I am wrong. Have a great day.
First, u need to preface sentences like this:
"The MKZ, is better and several thousands cheaper than the CTS, The MKX, is better than the SRX and cheaper too ..." with "IMHO" because you are probably the only person in the world familiar with these vehicles who seems to believe this. And dump the unneeded commas will ya?
Here's another in need of an IMO: "Lincoln, has flat out "reached higher" for 2007, than any other luxury brand..."
And I'll add: reaching is one thing, doing is another.
You describe how Cadillac isn't really doing well (huh?) except for the Escalade (which is KILLING the Navigator and will continue to do so - IMHO) and the 'miracle' selling CTS? C'mon rock, that's what it's all about. To SELL cars. They sell if people like them. The CTS is at least the equal of the LS. And Caddy didn't fold on the enthusiast market like Lincoln did when they dropped the manual option from the LS. No, instead, Caddy went further and brought out the performance-oriented CTS-V that we were BEGGING Lincoln to do with the LS. Instead, Lincoln apparently decided to go back to pursuing the blue-hair market it knows so well, which may explain their use of the STOOPID 'D-L' shift gate on all their new cars that you love so much and are filled with such 'gadgetology'.
And that's another point, you imply that Lincoln has all this stuff that Caddy doesn't, yet many of the gadgets you list are features on Lexus, not Lincoln. Have u confused the two brands?
And you say "Now granted Ford needs to build new platforms which needs to be good enough for Lincoln, but at the same time be high volume enough to keep costs down" So which is it - everything is A#1 right now, better than everyone else? -OR- they desperately need new platforms. C'mon man, read your own posts.
You continue "If Lincoln/Ford/Volvo, can develop few platforms but make the ones they have great I see no harm in it. Again if it adds value to the consumer" THis is nothing but a DUH moment. Of course IF they make GREAT platforms they can make GREAT cars. But unfortunately, ...
BTW, rock, did you know that Volvo IS coming out with a new much-improved platform for the S80??? And did you also know that your sexy mks will NOT get it? YES, that's right, Volvo gets the new one, Lincoln gets the hand-me-down. ANOTHER reason for me to ask: why wait for the MKS when the same S80 is available NOW and a better S80 will be available when the mks comes out? In addition, just the fact that Lincoln gets Volvos old shoes oughtta tell ya where Lincoln sits in Fords eyes vis-a-vis luxury brands. So don't look for the S to "out-luxury" the Volvo.
You also claim to know the sticker price of the MKS will be below the CTS. I don't KNOW the price of the MKS but I can practically GUARANTEE it will be higher than the CTS becasue it will be a larger car in a different market.
ANd it's almost sad to see you hoping for paddle shifters and a boost guage etc. Rocky kindly go to the nearest Lincoln dealer and look in the Z. Do u see paddle shifters? Do you even see a choice of more than 2 forward gears? Now look in the Town Car. Paddle shifters? Now look in the ... oh, that's it for Lincoln cars isn't it. You could look in the MKX and find the same lack of anything resembling driver control gadgets but they can't even ship the GD thing.
So please, man, I'm beggin ya to post actual data, not made upo stuff from your pipe dreams. Then we can have an intelligent conversation.
Rocky
P.S.
Sorry I'm not a English grammer major like yourself. Blame my teachers.
Thanx,
Rocky
I agree. I gotta go wash my hair...
PS: Before I go, a big mea culpa (apology) I reread your post and indeed you did compare price of mks to sts not cts. I'm tired of all these letters:>)
Does that mean you promise not to hijack any more topics with your uninformed rantings for the next few years?
OK, back to the hair ...
First, I'd put my knowledge of the auto-industry and brain up against yours any day. Secondly, You might be able to spell better and punctuate better than me but that's about it IMHO. Thirdly, calling me "uninformed" is like the pot calling the kettle black.
I don't understand why you can't disagree with me without personal attacks ? Seriously what have I ever done to you ? I have my opinions and you have yours. I don't fall off my rocker every time I disagree with you. I try my best to get along with everyone on edmunds. I enjoy talking about cars with most of the folks on here and that includes people I often disagree with. Loren, iluv, I disagree with often but I still enjoy and respect their point of view no matter how crazy it can sometimes get.
Have a good day scootertrash
Rocky
P.S.
Now back to the MKS
what??
There is NO WAY I can agree with that. 0-60 in the low 6s on stock tires on a luxo-sedan is NOT underpowered. And if it has better aftermarket tires, I could see 6 flat being no problem.
I went to the LSv8 from a 350Z, so if I wasn't disappointed, I don't see how anyone could be.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
The MKS looks as though it will have sufficient power right out of the box. Hope so. It's not going to sell on looks alone...except to a couple of folks that seem smitten with its fat, derivative shape.
That's why I think it can co-exist with a new RWD V8 based flagship to go against the Europeans and GM/DCX.
I honestly think this is the direction they're going but I also think they've just started so we won't see anything for 4 years.
Another problem is that Ford Europe and Ford Australia operate so independently of Ford USA that more immediate platform sharing is a problem. Honestly, it really galls me how much these folks were being paid to make such bad decisions. I only hope the Ford family is reassessing their clumsy meddling (now that the stock has tanked and seems poised to remain low) in matters that should have been up to designers, engineers and brand managers who truly know the car business as it exists today.
Supplier relationships are another problem. And the MKS itself should have been pulled forward, as GM and Chrysler have found ways to do with some models. It is such old news and still nearly a year and a half from showrooms.
I think the engineering for a new RWD platform would be done here and shared with the Aussies, not the other way around. But who knows?
You might be able to spell better and punctuate better than me
Ahem, BTW, it's "Better than I".......
Alan, a B car is smaller than the current Focus, or the same? :confuse:
A Honda Fit is the best example.
Ford has had B class cars here before: the Fiesta, the Festiva and the forgettable Aspire come to mind. There is an A class too, but those are marketed in Europe and Asia, not here.
And then there is the Smart car, which is even smaller than A class...but that is coming here in 2008 (and the second generation Smart has grown over 7" in length).
Hey! I saw one here on the road in Vegas~! My wife said, "What the hell is that?" Fortunately, I knew. But didn't think they'd be marketing it here.....
I understand what you are saying. America is not a Europe. But why then Focus is not doing so well?
Because it's basically unchanged since it's introduction 7 years ago and is the most oudtdated car available in it's class.
Sound Familiar?
Yes, I own Sable, and Focus too. But still Focus is an impressive car, if they could make higher quality interior it would be a bestseller, just because it is a Ford. I do not understand decisions made by Ford management. 20 years ago they knew the rules of game, I cannot get how Ford can get lost when they knew what to do 20 years ago and it was a huge success. Like – oh we won – now let’s do the exactly opposite and screw it because otherwise we will be like Toyota – too consistent.
Because the people running Ford back then are gone. Blame Trotman and Nasser for where Ford is today.
Yes, and Bill Jr., who hasn't done a consistent or well thought out thing since he took over either. He's all over the place, we're gonna be green, but we're gonna be bold, but we're gonna be conservative too....
Where have all the Peterson's and Caldwells gone??
You know, the other thing that burns my butt, akirby, is that Suburbans, both Chevy and GMC had been around, polluting the earth and killing wildlife, not to mention your kids, since, oh, 68 or so? But it was no big deal until Ford brought its Expedition - and suddenly, Ford was evil for pillaging villages and bringing out an Urban Assault Vehicle! GM always got a pass for their Tahoe and Suburbans, which by the way, came in both half and 3/4 ton versions, the latter which is equivalent to the Excursion, which again, started a firestorm of hatred toward Ford. Nothing though, about all those old 3/4 ton Suburbans out there which polluted far more than the new Excursion did.
The Hummer H2 is actually wider than any of them, and gets worse gas mileage as well - yet, GM is of no consequence, but Ford is single handedly responsible for the extinction of the Unicorn....
What goes?
But I do not undestand from thread title how someone was able to sit in the car that does not yet exist (I mean MKS).
My Chevrolet history book shows the Suburban was introduced in 1935.
Thanks for noticing, but we all know it was nothing like the machine of today, and they didn't get popular with the populace until the late 60's....
Rocky
Just my gripe is all. I still might buy one someday. I will probably get a CTS-V instead of a STS.
Rocky
Rocky