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Future Chevrolet Camaro
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Comments
Are you sure? I bet it will sell so well that production numbers will be upped. I think this is the case of also better looking "stang." The Mustang is very retro and still sells great. As for performance, Chrylser knows a little something about this nitch, so weight will probably be lower than 3900lbs (that's just humongous)so Challenger should still beat Camaro. And power will definitely be upped to stake any chances Comaro will have with corvette engine and to compete with Mustang Shelby. At the Chicago Auto Show, Challenger got better response than Camaro. and was voted in the top three best concepts there(can't remember if it won). This Camaro is a disapointment.
Zero to a speeding ticket, or ability to wrap the car around a tree can easily be achieved without gas guzzling, huge pushrod engines. If needed, the 5.0 V8 could be an option - something like the Mustang has in the 4.6 V8, though the 3.6 V6 GM has would be a sweet option, IMHO.
-Loren
No.
"The Challenger and Camaro should have performance similar to this (which is very good!) Look at the Cobra 500!"
Drag strip 0-60 is not important, unless for drag strips. All cars, including FWD econo cars can be altered to perform magnificent 1/4 mile times, with outstanding HP. You may see a Civic fly by one one fine day. Big deal. A balanced car has straight line speed, cornering ability, usable power for daily driving. Fuel economy would be a value added feature as well.
"The 3.6 probably will be an option."
Hopefully, it will be the engine, with a V8 as an option pkg. just like CTS has.
"Do you hate American heritage?"
No, in general, I do not hate American heritage. Any specifics as to what I should hate or like about America? Kinda a broad subject, with a couple hundred plus years to cover.
Looks wise the Challenger is a best replica car, and the Camaro would be pretty good downsized, and belt line lowered to avoid too tall door syndrome. Last of the Fox body Stangs, '94-'04 are as large as I would go, with as tall a doors as I would hang on the sides.
As for replica cars, with modern underpinnings, I can see how people may get excited about that. It is not for everyone. Would be happy to own the keys to a replica Cobra. I would prefer new ideas, new designs, and looking forward. The 2004 Mustang was a good example of a Ford Pony car which took a load of style and attitude from the first generation Stang, and built it into a more modern car.
While the '05 to me is trying a bit too much inside and out to be a 1969 model exterior and 1965 interior Mustang. It is fine, especially for those in need of a more replica car of days-gone-bye. I bet ya people will find out later on that some elements of the new car are gonna cost them more money come repair time. The New Pony may require more hay over time, as in more green. I personally would stay with the '04 or older. Money no object, and if the kinks are ironed out of the New Stang, then go for it. It is a good looking car - but then again, I am old enough as to have seen it for the first time back in late '68. The Real New Stang may be coming in '09 model year. May be a little more pizazz.
-Loren
These things are looking forward. They're just lookng to their heritage for new inspiration. and it seems a bright new start. You like the old mustang better than the current? that thing is so plain. i've seen better looking Cavaliers. Ford did this because they wanted some soul. And it looks great. i'm speechless about that comment!
BTW, it is OK to be speechless while typing.
-Loren
In my oppinion,the current Mustang looks waaaayyyyyy better than that cavalier looking old one. Seriously, it looks like a slightly squared cavalier. There is nothing better about the '04 than the '05.
Someone give me their oppinion on the subject!
Someone give me their oppinion on the subject!
Unless your over 50, the 'Stang blows huge chunks! The "old" 'Stang was pretty sweet, having sold them myself. The stick was atrocious, but a studly ride otherwise.
Nothing for the 30 and under crowd thur! :mad:
The Next Camaro will have "import-intenders" building blogs in worship! GM is turning this TITANIC AROUND! :surprise:
DrFill
The 04 mustang was built to look like a sports car. The SN197 mustangs, however, are built to liken back to the days of the older stangs, and as such have a very strong muscle car appearance.
Personally, I love my '04 Mustang GT. Would I trade it for another vehicle? Certainly, if I get the right offer. But for my money, I don't think there's a car I could have been happier with.
What kid would pick a 'Stang over the style of the Next Camaro?
Answer? Not many.
It's for the Boomers, not the New School. I hope my father likes it. But I sure don't.
The Next Camaro WILL get me over the threshold, and into a showroom.
DrFill
The Mustang concept was great. I would've spend $50k for it. Fot the production Mustang - I wouldn't be caught dead in.
My guess is that the new Camaro will also be a great addition to the ren-a-car fleet....
Contrast that with the yearly sales for the New Mustang. In the years 05 & 06, the numbers are in the range of 150,000 plus. By the time GM gets the Camero for sale in 2009, the New Mustang will have been out there for 4 years and will have over 600,000 on the road.
The Camero will have to compete against a product that defined the term Pony Car, is a mature product, and a proven sales leader. Why would anyone want to buy a copy of the real thing? (Would you would buy a Kia, if they claimed to make Pony Cars, too?) The Camero will be a tough sell in 2009, since the Mustang has established itself and defined the car category, compound that with the fact that the Challenger is a much better looking car. The Camero will end up as it always has, in the shadow of the Mustang.
"Excellent point. Doesn't the C6 use a transaxle? No way GM would be offering a transaxle in what should be (at least nominally) a 4 seat vehicle."
= = =
The C6 ( my daily driver is a 2007 ) has the transmission mounted in the rear – and co-located with the differential.
It is not, however, [ strictly speaking ] a transaxle. They are separate units. Other GM vehicles using versions of this transmission ( including the 2007 Caddy STS V8s ) mount it immediately behind the motor.
The issues here ( in my opinion ) are that the 6L80 six speed automatic ( as in my C6 ) is a rather expensive and fairly heavy item. The Tremec T56 manual six speed transmission is robust, but has issues as well . . .
If a six speed automatic is deemed necessary, the version of the automatic in the 2007 Caddy STS V8s ( 6L50 ) might be a candidate for something less powerful that a 400 \ 400 LS2 motor.
The other issue is that the C6 has an IRS – again complex & expensive. I am not convinced that this will even be optional on the Camaro.
I’d have looked far more seriously at the Mustang GT, if an IRS ( and any sort of manumatic shifting ) had been available. . .
- Ray
Happy C6 driver!
1 Source:
http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/2007/07car.htm
"Zeta is a very versatile architecture. The front axle centerline on the Camaro is about 50mm further forward than it is on the Holden Commodore (and therefore the Pontiac G8, the lightly made-over Commodore sedan that will debut at the Chicago Show next month). The reason for this expensive change is that it allows the Camaro - and the Impala - to run 20-inch wheels without compromising steering lock. In fact, says one Holden source, 24s will fit.
Both the Camaro coupe and convertible concept are therefore very close to the production versions, say GM insiders. The roof of the coupe will be raised about 15mm for production, and the bodysides will be pulled in 5-10mm. But that's about it. What you see here at Detroit is basically what you're going to get in Chevy showrooms in 2009.
Cost has been a major issue for Camaro. But GM sources say entry level versions will retail from about $21,000. That's because they will use the cheap-to-build pushrod 3.9-liter V-6 as the entry level engine. Insiders say Tom Stephens' team at GM Powertrain has been working flat out to improve the refinement of the 3.9. Mated with the six speed - manual or automatic - it should be a much smoother package than the truck-like 4.0-liter V-6 that powers base Mustangs."
http://www.motortrend.com/features/auto_news/2007/112_0702_2009_chevrolet_camaro-
GM missed the boat when they did not introduce the Solstice Coupe. With the 3.6 V6, it would have had potential.
:shades: Loren
THe Comaro still looks awkward to me. But the convertible makes it look a little better. I'm not gonna lie- THe Mustang GT is off the chain! We need not even discuss that cobra!!!!!!
Not completely true. A poll showed that people would rather have the convertible over the coupe. And from the race hardtop version (500hp) I've seen, It might look awkward.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
As for the Camaro, it should sell well. I personally am not a fan of too tall doors, but overall do like the look of the New Camaro. If I happen some day to live in a town with wide streets and wide parking spots, I may consider a New Camaro. And by 2008 we will know more of the fate of GM.
As for 2007 it is a G6 or a Monte, if ya want a GM coupe.
As the 2009 models hit the showrooms, I would say there should be three interesting pony cars. The Mustang will get some needed face-lifts and tweaks to style and engines by that year, the Challenger is gonna take the prize for replicar look of '09, and the Camaro, if like the show car looks pretty promising.
-Loren :shades:
As background, I bought a new red '89 Firebird V6 manual for under $10k, and loved it for ten years. However, I wanted to get one of the final F-body cars before they went out of production so I special-ordered a '99 Z28 6-speed, red/black, white leather - for about $24k, and I still have it. Now it has lowering springs, Bilsteins, 17" wheels, 275/40 tires like the SS, and stainless steel fender trim.
No matter where you place the blame for the death of the F-body, it was low demand. Was it the not-so-smooth 4-speed automatic? Poor advertising? The bland plastic "grille?" (I removed mine and it's much more interesting underneath.) Was it the car mags finding faults that I, as an owner, don't share? Mostly, I think the Mustang has a more universal appeal, more of a "secretary's car," or family appeal for a sporty car. The F-body was more enthusiast-oriented in my opinion, and thus appealed to a smaller market. I am not exaggerating when I say that about once a week my Z28 gets a "thumbs up" from other drivers, and several times I've had drivers in cars next to me at lights yell things like, "Nice car, man!"
That is strange... I rent GM vehicles about once a week for business as well and have never once had a problem, especially something like the engine cutting out...
"As for the 5yr/100k warranty, that just screams out that they're not confident in their product at all and that they have to resort to ridiculous measures to keep cars moving off of the car lots."
That comment lacks any logic whatsoever. So you are then saying that a 3 yr/30,000 mile warranty is better becasue it means that the company is more confident about their quality? If they were confident in their product, wouldn't they offer a longer warranty to prove it?
It is fairly obvious that you are either very much against GM and it really doesn't matter what they do, you will never support them; or, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
Last time I checked, it doesn't have an LSD.
Nice if you like heaps of axle tramp. :confuse:
Best Regards,
Shipo
Then you need to check again. A limited slip differential is STANDARD EQUIPMENT on the Mustang GT.
The 3.55 rear-end is simply an optional gear ratio. The LSD is standard equipment.
AFAIK, a LSD has ALWAYS been available on the Mustang. My '66 didn't have one originally but I know that a trac-loc rear-end (Ford speak for LSD) was available. It's possible that a LSD wasn't available for a bit in the Mustang Dark Ages ('74 to '79). But the less said about the Mustang II, the better....
Other quick fixes like the GM Employee pricing thing from a year and half or so ago was also a bad decision, and diminished their product name even further. They had something like a 25% dropoff in sales after they ended that promo. Don't get me wrong, Ford made the same idiotic mistake too, but they were just following GM's play.
There are clear reasons why tens of thousands of GM workers are being laid off and their pensions being cut, and in my view those same lay off's and firings just don't scream out, "HEY we're GM, and we're building quality products! Don't mind the plant closings and the cutbacks that we've made by moving operations to Mexico and Canada, that's just part of our master plan to continue to have subpar workers build our stuff!"
Honestly, I'd attempt to buy their product again if a few things changed, but until I see some quality reports and research done on them I won't. Almost every long term report that I've read talks about maintenance issues that are far more expensive than their rivals. And it's not motors or drivetrain like it is with Dodge products, it's the little things like wire harnasses and stupid little things from a lack of attention to detail.
All I'd like them to do is build a quality product everytime instead of the inconsistant stuff that roles off their line. It's a crap shoot if you get a good car or bad one, and that's just not fair to the consumer, nor towards GM's longterm goal of keeping lifelong buyers.
Next time your on the road, try to see how many brand new trailblazers and the endless line of GM clones that use the same design that have all their brake lights out, or maybe just the left one. This is a common complaint that is brought up by owners, yet GM has done nothing to fix it, not even a recall letter. Why? Well, that's anyone's guess.
Answer: yes"
So do I. Why offer the same engine as the Impala SS, Monte SS, and the soon to be sold Buick LaCrosse Super? Set the regular Camaro apart with the more powerful LS2, and offer the LS7 in an SS model (with the Corvette GM's permission).
300HP is likely to be around the power produced by the entry level V-6, so the V-8 will certainly be substantially more powerful. Moreover, the LS2 and LS7 will be discontinued by the time the Camaro come around. There will more than likey be some variation of the 6.2L (either the L92 or the LS3) as the V-8 with the possibility of somewhere around 420 - 450HP. I don't think the Camaro will have to worry about differentiating itself in the power department.
"They unveiled the new Camaro way to early before release the hype is diminishing and their sales will be average, mostly to Camaro enthusiasts. For the Pony the re-engineering of it isn't until 2009, thats too long tarnishing the name into Ford Unquality Moves."
The hype is diminishing? How exactly are you gauging the so-called hype? Actually, I would argue that the majority of the people who will end up purchasing this car are not even aware that it is in the works. The only people who are aware that a 5th gen Camaro even exists are the enthusiests, and their "hype" will certainly not die over the course of 1.5 years.
i often regret trading away my Y2K hurst/Z28 and ending up with pontiac GTO (which looks like AMC pacer, except even uglier), although i do appreciate the better ride/suspension/seats/interior of the GTO.
i will definitely be considering the "fifth-gen" camaro. (maybe it won't really be a fifth-gen since it is not an f-body). also i'll be looking at the Pontiac G8.
Putting only automatic models of a sports car would be a bad move. I think it would drastically kill sales.
Don't know if anyone corrected this, but this is straight out of Muscle Car Milestones:
Specifications - 2009 Chevrolet Camaro SS
(I'm just going to the list the engine specs)
Engine Type - Aluminum V8
Displacment - 6.0L
Horsepower - 400 with Active Fuel Management
Tranmission - T-10 Six Speed Manual
Suspenion - MacPherson strut front, multilink rear, progressive rate coil springs
(paraphraseing)
The Article on this car also says, production will ramp up at the end of 2008 and go on sale in the first quater of 2009.
The Z28 is gonna feature an LS4 5.3L V8 (the SS is an LS2) would probaly put out around 340hp. (if they are actualy doing a Z28, I believe this is speculation)
To sucessfuly compete with the Mustang they have to sell 100,000 annually.
I forget where, but it does say somewhere in the article that the engine is the base Corvette engine.
Sorry if this has already been stated, but my brain went numb after I read that.
But I think were looking at 26k to 30k priceing. Aside from porformance, I think the Camaro could compete with the Stang on looks alone. Looks sell most cars.
What in the heck is "Muscle Car Milestones"?
Where did you see info regarding the Z28 (with the LS4 5.3l) and the SS (with the LS2 6.0l)?
The one I picked up and am qouting out of is Musclecar Milestones.
It features information on the new Camaro, Challenger and the GT-500, among older muscle cars. It's in a section talking about the engine in the Camaro towards the end of the article.
Yup, something like that. I'll post the info on that when I get home, but it comes at a price; Because the car is gonna be so powerful, they're considering makeing buyers take a driveing class before purchaseing the vehicle. Which is responsiable, but could also detur people from buying it cause of the hassle. That would just cause people to buy the non-ss model, and throw some aftermarket stuff in and they'll be going faster then the SSs. The only reason someone would buy the SS is if they really like the difference in the body styling. Which I think is kinda sexy, better then the bland bodies they got on em now. I dunno. I'll post where I read it when I get home with more qoutes.
There you go, that's where I read about the driving class.
Also, you wanna see a serious Vette? Front reminds me of a Aston Martin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqqpiPr3LFE&mode=related&search=
Has anyone ever heard a sweeter sounding engine?