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Toyota Camry Hybrid

PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
It's already the best-selling sedan in America, so Toyota's primary goal for the all-new, 2007 Camry was to not mess it up. Of course the carmaker didn't, and in fact it looks to be the best Camry yet. Available in four trims that range from the value-priced CE, midgrade LE, sporty SE and to the top-of-the-line XLE, a fifth model joins the lineup for 2007 — Toyota's first Camry Hybrid.

2007 Camry Hybrid at the Detroit Show

Toyota Camry Hybrid blog
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Comments

  • pushanpushan Member Posts: 15
    I saw the pictures of the 2007 Camry SE and hybrid. Looks very impressive. It seems the pricing will be available just before the delivery. Hope the price is not increased.

    I am in waiting list for my Prius to come, but looks like I will have more choices available soon.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    I just placed an order today for a Toyota Camry hybird at a Toronto dealership. I was told I was the first one to put down a deposit and should expect to get my Camry sometime in May or June.

    At least I will have my foot at the door in case there are long waiting lists. If I find the MSRP pricey then I will cancel my order right away.

    A hybrid will be a new experience for me since I am used to owning German performance cars. It is kind of nice to have a performance car and a hybrid car since I believe both types of cars cater to different sides of your brain.

    Ofcourse the hybrid Camry will cater to neither side of my brain if I find the price too high. Only time will tell!
  • schtdyladyschtdylady Member Posts: 6
    I heard about the Camry Hybrid announcement on Thursday and yesterday, January 15, I put a deposit on one (no. 3 in line). I am hoping that it comes with a v6 but it sounds like only a 4 cylinder. I don't know if I would be happy without my 6. I am currently driving my 95 2 door v6, original owner with 156K miles on it. I am also hoping the Camry Hybrid comes well equipped with heated seats, mirrors and hopefully a memory driver seat. I had been planning a ES330 for my new commuter car but I am willing to wait and see how the Camry comes off the line. Figure I can always sell it for what I paid for it if I don't like it.
  • greendoggreendog Member Posts: 8
    The future is here ! Midsize with performance (Better than Hybrid Civic and Prius ). 6 cyl. would be nice but the press releases say 4 . Would like a six like the Hybrid Accord that could shut down 3 of the cylinders at hiway speeds . However , I'll take the better city milage of the hcamry toyota synergy drive over Honda Accord . Our HHighlander is a blast . I'm surprised this Camry is'nt getting more buzz here . QUESTION- Are the '07 HCamry's coming over from Japan ? I'd be surprised if they ratcheted up production that fast in Tn. Adapt Early !
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Toyota's First North American Hybrid Production Will be in Georgetown, Kentucky
    Production of Camry Hybrid to Start in Late 2006


    If the above is true then the hybrid Camrys available mid year will be made in Japan. Later this year they will be made in USA.

    link title
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    Look at the blurb on Edmunds site, from the 2006 Detroit Auto Show:

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/AutoshowArticles/articleId=108838

    It shows a picture. The 2007 Toyota Camry Hybrid uses an electric motor along with a 2.4-liter, four-cylinder engine. It offers 192 horsepower (as much as the current 3.0-liter V6 model), and can accelerate from zero to 60 in less than 9 seconds. It also delivers 43 city/37 highway mpg.

    Cheers,

    MidCow
  • JBaumgartJBaumgart Member Posts: 890
    If those stats prove to be accurate, and assuming gas prices continue to rise in the next couple of years, this car is going to be a HUGE hit for Toyota. It appears to offer a near-perfect blend of style, room, performance and economy, and therefore it will have strong appeal to many families.

    I've been following the RAV4 thread, but the hybrid option for the Camry has gotten my attention. Too bad Toyota decided to not offer it in the RAV4.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Some posters emphasize performance on the Camry

    If I wanted performance I certainly would not be buying a Camry in the first place. A performance Camry is a oxymoron.

    The reason I ordered a hybrid Camry can best be described by the following words in the NY Times artilce linked below:

    It's the sheer delight of owning the latest high-tech advancement."

    HYBRID CAMRY
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    Dewey said:

    "Some posters emphasize performance on the Camry

    If I wanted performance I certainly would not be buying a Camry in the first place. A performance Camry is a oxymoron."

    This perfomance of the Camry is good about what the current V6 is maybe a little worse. It is definitely a consideration for most car drivers.

    The performance Oxymoron is the Prius. The only car in the the entire Toyota line that is slower including the SUVs was the automatic Echo. At 0-60 in 11.5 seconds with a Prius you almost watch paint dry or grass grow faster.

    At 0-60 in less than nine seconds thae Camry has the equivalent perfomance of other non-hybrid sedans and you will not have to worry about getting run over entering an expressway.

    YOMV,

    MidCow
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Ok as long as a hybrid Camry goes faster than a Prius and my bicycle I will be content!

    My satisfaction with a hybrid Camry will be based on how its mileage will compare to EPA estimates(unlikely to be identical but hopefuly not way off). Especially since most my driving is city driving (EPA city = 43 mpg). But my main attraction is the HSD technology itself!
  • ej0ej0 Member Posts: 12
    A performance Camry is a oxymoron.

    I disagree. I own a 97 Camry LE V6 and it is very fast and a lot of fun to drive. After I put on some sports tires the cornering is also very good. I expect the new Camry Hybrid to be equally fast.
    The new sports version Camry SE V6 should really be a blast and worthy of any sporty driver (short of a BMW M3 that costs twice as much!). But of course it's not good for your wallet at the pump.
  • ej0ej0 Member Posts: 12
    The pricing for the new Camry has not been announced.
    It's a fun game to try to guess the new pricing table for the 2007 Toyota Camry.
    I assume that: 1. the new prices are the same as the old prices; 2. the hybrid trim level (apart from the hybrid engine) is halfway between the LE and XLE trim level; 3. the additional price of the hybrid engine over the 4 cylinder version is $2750.
    That would give a price for the 2007 Toyota Camry hybrid of $24325 MSRP (without destination charge and options).
    This would be a nice value price and position Toyota well against the competition.
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    LOL,

    When the only tool a person has in his tool box is a hammer, all problems look like nails.

    A Camry is a very nice car, but it is not sporty!

    Double Sixes,

    MidCow
  • john1701ajohn1701a Member Posts: 1,897
    > Some posters emphasize performance on the Camry

    Their goal is to convince you that the definition of "performance" does not include emissions or consumption. Because when you look at what they are driving, those aspects are not anything to be proud of. In fact, their pollution & waste is down right embarrassing.

    Just look at the 0-60 acceleration speeds. Every few years, the acceptable rate changes... despite the fact that road conditions haven't. What has happened is the ceiling was exceeded awhile ago, but they had no other benefit to sell you... so they kept changing the acceleration even though an improvement was completely unnecessary.

    Reducing smog-related emissions is an aspect performance.

    Reducing fuel consumption is an aspect performance.


    Don't let the antagonists persuade you to believe they aren't.

    JOHN
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    ROTFLMA,

    I have never ever seen a more flimsy way to justify a slow car. So now performance includes emission and consumption.

    Well all I can say the Camry's is like a NASCAR compared to a Prius. The acceptable rate of 0-60 mph for the past 20 or so years is in the 8-9 second range. Some cars, even SUVs are now a second or so faster, but the acceptable range is still in the 8-9 second range. The new 2007 hybrid Camry will meet this requirement. The Prius at 10.5-11.3 seconds does not meet the 0-60 acceleration rate averages that have been established for nearly two decades. To try and bring in polution and gas mileage as an excuse for poor perfromance is ludicrious.

    Cheers,

    MidCow
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    I cant wait to have the car below parked on my driveway, hopefully by late spring. The link below provides more riveting details about the hybrid Camry

    CAMRY HYBRID NEWS

    image

    image

    image

    image

    image
  • john1701ajohn1701a Member Posts: 1,897
    > So now performance includes emission and consumption.

    It always has. All aspects of how a vehicle performs is what makes up its "performance". You cannot choose which ones to include and which ones to disregard... as you are attempting to do.

    So what exactly is your definition? Based on your previous response, it appears as though acceleration alone is the only feature of performance.

    JOHN
  • john1701ajohn1701a Member Posts: 1,897
    > To try and bring in polution and gas mileage

    Ignoring them is denial, and most definitely not objective.

    JOHN
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    Okay John,

    Cars have gears and transmissions not power transports and power split devices.

    Performance basic 101 metrics:

    0-60 mph time in seconds
    5-60 mph time in seconds ( rolling start more realistic)
    50-70 mph (passing time) in seconds
    0-1/4 mile time in seconds and end speed in mph.
    Saloom time in seconds
    Braking time in distance for ( 60mph, 70mph, 80mph)

    Performance does not include pink foofoos, green content or mpg. And the Toyota poster child of HSD ( the Prius) is not a performance car!

    However, Toyota has gained some wisdom and the 2007 Camry Hybrid will actually perform at a reasonable, acceptable level of 0-60 mph in less than 9 seconds. Why doing so it obtains very good mileage ( not a perfromance characteristic) of 43/37. What does that mean and where will the buyers for the 2007 Camry Hybrid come from? Well for one they will take away almost all of the potential Prius customers, except the hypermilers and grandmothers. Other people looking for reasonable performance and reasonable mileage will choose the 2007 Camry Hybrid.

    Again I will repeat "polution" and "gas mileage" are not metrics that have anything to do with a car's acceleration performance, stopping ability or handling.

    Double Sixes,

    MidCow

    P.S.- It kinda makes you sad to see Toyota kill it's own Prius golden goose with a better mousetrap- 2007 Camry Hybrid.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    The Prius will still sell in good numbers to people who fall into any of these groups:

    1. Like the design.
    2. Like to show off their "green-ness"
    3. Need a 50+ MPG 5-passenger car.
    4. Like the idea of doing something environmentally kind.
    5. Have owned prior Prius cars.
    6. Do not know that the Camry has a hybrid version.
    7. Do not like the blandness of the Camry design.

    So the Prius will still be a success.

    But remember: Prius translated from it's source language means "First to come" or something like that. So regardless if it ever stops being sold, it was first and was the trailblazer.
  • ej0ej0 Member Posts: 12
    LOL,

    When the only tool a person has in his tool box is a hammer, all problems look like nails.

    A Camry is a very nice car, but it is not sporty!

    Double Sixes,

    MidCow


    Still, as it is, my wife keeps telling me to slow down. So, at least for some people, a Camry can be too sporty! :) I'd better stay away from that BMW M3.
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    Plus, the Prius will be cheaper. The Prius starts at $22,300. I bet the Camry hybrid will start between $26,000 and $27,000.

    Also, the Prius has an HID option, which is not available on the Camry hybrid.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Here is 07 Camary video footage from the Detroit Auto show.
    Go to the lower right side of the page:

    07 Camry video
  • otis1otis1 Member Posts: 142
    I wonder how many TCH's will end up on ebay by flippers trying to make a buck.

    anyway I agree with midcow, I think the CH will canabalize prius sales. larsb is correct that people will choose a prius over a CH for the reasons he's listed, but MOST of those people already bought their prius. Don't get me wrong, the prius will still sell well, but we're not going to see the previous strong year to year growth in sales #'s for the prius. ( I bet next year (2007), prius sales will go DOWN- I would have said this year, but the tax credit will give the prius an artificial bump in sales this year that the camry won't benifit from)
  • lanceqlanceq Member Posts: 16
    Are you saying that the Camry Hybird will not benefit from the 2006 tax credit?

    Thanks
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    We are yet to know if the IRS will add the 2007 TCH to the list of 2006 tax credit hybrid vehicles.

    They DID DO SO with the HAH and the FEH in mid-year, so they will probably add the TCH also, based on what they have done in the past.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    We are yet to know if the IRS will add the 2007 TCH to the list of 2006 tax credit hybrid vehicles.

    They DID DO SO with the HAH and the FEH in mid-year, so they will probably add the TCH also, based on what they have done in the past.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I would guess it would make the list. Just quicker to 60k and the lower tax break. If Toyota sells 60k hybrids in the first quarter, the tax break will be cut for the second quarter. I would not spend that money till your tax man deducts it.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    based on last year's sales, even adding a big boost for 2006, it's very unlikely Toyota will sell 60K hybrids in the first quarter of 2006. They only averaged 37,500 hybrids sold per quarter in 2005.

    More likely, even with a bump because of rising gas prices, they will hit 60K sometime LATE in the second quarter.

    PS
    In a related topic, it will be VERY interesting to see how Toyota hybrid sales fare AFTER the 60K is gone and the tax credit is no longer an incentive for 2006 buyers. Will they tank? Will they taper off? Will people even care or know that the tax breaks are over? Interesting discussion fodder.... :shades:
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    quote gagrice-"I would not spend that money till your tax man deducts it."-end quote

    Which is good advice for ANY tax deduction, not merely hybrid vehicle purchases.
  • otis1otis1 Member Posts: 142
    Are you saying that the Camry Hybird will not benefit from the 2006 tax credit?

    I should have clarified.... The camry will come out later this year and most likely buyers will also benefit from the tax credit. I was implying that the tax credit will help sell more priuses because demand was starting to taper off (no more waiting lists etc). The camry hybrid will most likely sell out this year with or without the tax credit. If there were no tax credit, I think prius sales would have slowed down- especially this first quarter. also because of the tax credit, I think people "panic" bought priuses trying to be 1 of the first 60,000 buyers (even though that wasn't necessary) when they may have put of their decision to consider the CH.
  • otis1otis1 Member Posts: 142
    In a related topic, it will be VERY interesting to see how Toyota hybrid sales fare AFTER the 60K is gone and the tax credit is no longer an incentive for 2006 buyers.

    the tax credit gets phased out, 50% then 25%. so even TCH buyers will still benefit from some form of the tax credit. when the tax credit is completely phased out (probably sometime after Q3 2007), we'll start seeing incentives on some of the older hybrids because competition from other manufacturers will step up- and those other manufacturers will have the added benefit of the tax credit since they are "behind" in sales compared to toyota.
  • otis1otis1 Member Posts: 142
    In a related topic, it will be VERY interesting to see how Toyota hybrid sales fare AFTER the 60K is gone and the tax credit is no longer an incentive for 2006 buyers.

    the tax credit gets phased out, 50% then 25%. so even TCH buyers will still benefit from some form of the tax credit. when the tax credit is completely phased out (probably sometime after Q3 2007), we'll start seeing incentives on some of the older hybrids because competition from other manufacturers will step up- and those other manufacturers will have the added benefit of the tax credit since they are "behind" in sales compared to toyota.
  • lanceqlanceq Member Posts: 16
    Thanks to all for the rapid and knowledgeable responses to the tax credit question. It sounds like maybe we can utilize the tax credit if we purchase early. I would hope that Toyota would issue a certificate along with the bill of sale that qualifies the purchased Camry for a tax credit.

    Good luck to us on this hybrid advantage.
  • otis1otis1 Member Posts: 142
    In a related topic, it will be VERY interesting to see how Toyota hybrid sales fare AFTER the 60K is gone and the tax credit is no longer an incentive for 2006 buyers.

    the tax credit gets phased out, 50% then 25%. so even TCH buyers will still benefit from some form of the tax credit. when the tax credit is completely phased out (probably sometime after Q3 2007), we'll start seeing incentives on some of the older hybrids because competition from other manufacturers will step up- and those other manufacturers will have the added benefit of the tax credit since they are "behind" in sales compared to toyota.
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    Also, the amount of tax credit will be lower for the Camry hybrid relative to the Prius
  • otis1otis1 Member Posts: 142
    I have never ever seen a more flimsy way to justify a slow car. So now performance includes emission and consumption...Well all I can say the Camry's is like a NASCAR compared to a Prius.
    I was just talking about the camry hybrid with a friend of mine who owns a prius. we were talking about performance vs FE and he said, "oh and what's that sports car honda makes that's a hybrid?" and I responded, "do you mean the accord hybrid?" he said, "no, that's not it... it's the.... oh yeah, the insight..." I just had to pause for a second. I guess performance takes on a new meaning to hybrid owners ;)

    Don't take this as me making fun of hybrids. I like hybrids I just thought that was a funny story. I drove the prius and think the power is adequate for normal day-to-day driving so the camry should be just fine. HOnestly, I don't see why a commuter car weighing less than 3500 lbs needs more than 200hp.
  • muskyfevermuskyfever Member Posts: 20
    After looking at the links and the pictures of the new Camry Hybrid all I can say is WOW!!

    A car that big getting 45mpg? Unreal! It looks inbetween a Lexus and a Maxima.

    I might be trading in my 05' for an 07'.

    Toyota destroys the competition again.
  • toyotamovertoyotamover Member Posts: 19
    All of the points that larsb made in his post about how the CH will not hurt the Prius are exactly right. I especially agree with the point the Prius buyers like to show off their "greenness" by driving a car that can only be recognizable as a Hybrid. That is one of the reasons the Highlander Hybrid has not taken off (mileage being another obviously). I run a high volume Toyota dealership and can tell you the Hybrid buyer is concerned about our dependency on foreign oil, pollution and the environment and getting that statement out there to the masses. One of the ways they do that is by driving a Prius.

    I also had to laugh at the statements about tax savings. Tax savings are one of the furthest reasons people buy the Hybrids. It is not about them savings money - they would buy a Corolla if that was the case - it is all about promoting and practicing their beliefs. Prius people rarely ask about the tax savings and have expressed to me many times that it doesn't matter to them and they would buy the car without a penny of help from the government. The tax savings is merely a bonus for them.

    The Hybrid Camry will do very well as well will the Prius. The first CH we get in silver with Nav will be in my driveway for the next 5-10 years.

    Brian
  • toyotamovertoyotamover Member Posts: 19
    We have sold two new Prius already this morning and both buyers knew about the upcoming Camry Hybrid but wanted the design and the better fuel savings of the Prius. Oh and neither mentioned the tax savings. One did ask when the Solara Convertible like the one on our showfloor was coming out in a Hybrid version :D

    Brian
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Yes Midnightcowbody you have made your point quite well about what performance is. Your definition is similar to mine and I am not here to dispute them.

    BUT if I wanted performance/handling I would choose among the many rear wheel drive sports sedan/coupes that are currently available.

    The current and soon to be selection of hybrids are not what I would call performance cars. The new hybrids from Lexus (LS and GS) are more slushbox luxury cruisers than real sport sedans. The hybrid Honda Accord driving dynamics are hindered by its front wheel drive platform. And all hybrids are not great in handling since they are bogged down by their extra weight.

    The reason I am buying the Camry hybrid is not because of my wants(performance/handling) but because of my family needs(roomy, fuel efficient, reliable).

    Also I am a great admirer of the Toyota HSD system and the company's efforts in cutting emissions/fuel consumption.

    My current BMW 3 series is great for solo driving but the great driving experience becomes NIL when I have my children complaining about a lack of space and bangling my seat with their legs.

    That is why I need two different cars. The Camry to satisfy my needs and the BMW to satisfy my wants.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Yes Midnightcowbody you have made your point quite well about what performance is. Your definition is similar to mine and I am not here to dispute them.

    BUT if I wanted performance/handling I would choose among the many rear wheel drive sports sedan/coupes that are currently available.

    The current and soon to be selection of hybrids are not what I would call performance cars. The new hybrids from Lexus (LS and GS) are more slushbox luxury cruisers than real sport sedans. The hybrid Honda Accord driving dynamics are hindered by its front wheel drive platform. And all hybrids are not great in handling since they are bogged down by their extra weight.

    The reason I am buying the Camry hybrid is not because of my wants(performance/handling) but because of my family needs(roomy, fuel efficient, reliable).

    Also I am a great admirer of the Toyota HSD system and the company's efforts in cutting emissions/fuel consumption.

    My current BMW 3 series is great for solo driving but the great driving experience becomes NIL when I have my children complaining about a lack of space and bangling my seat with their legs.

    That is why I need two different cars. The hybrid Camry to satisfy my needs and the BMW to satisfy my wants.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Yes Midnightcowbody you have made your point quite well about what performance is. Your definition is similar to mine and I am not here to dispute your definitions.

    BUT if I wanted performance/handling I would choose among the many non-hybrid rear wheel drive sports sedan/coupes that are currently available.

    The current and soon to be selection of hybrids are not what I would call performance cars. The new hybrids from Lexus (LS and GS) are more slushbox luxury cruisers than real sport sedans. The hybrid Honda Accord's driving dynamics are hindered by its front wheel drive platform. And all hybrids are not great in handling since they are bogged down by their extra weight.

    The reason I am buying the Camry hybrid is not because of my wants(performance/handling) but because of my family needs(roomy, fuel efficient, reliable).

    Also I am a great admirer of the Toyota HSD system and the company's efforts in cutting emissions/fuel consumption.

    My current gas consuming BMW 3 series is great for solo driving but the "ultimate driving experience" becomes NIL when I have my children complaining about a lack of space and then bangling my seat with their legs.

    That is why I need two different cars. The hybrid Camry to satisfy my needs and the BMW to satisfy my wants. Currently there is not a single car in the market today that satisfies both my needs and wants.
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    Muskyfever:

    I agree the 2007 Camry Hybrid is wow! And I agree with Dewey is is a good compromise and provides some performance/sportiness.

    Muskyfever said: "Toyota destroys the competition again."

    Again I agree, but I also think that the TCH sales will have a significant impact on Prius sales. Whether toyota intended it or not one of the TCH's main competitors, IMO, is the Prius. Some people are saying they are not comaprable because the THC will cost more, is bigger, has less milaeage, and most important doesn't look odd and make the "I'm Green" statement boldly enough. I contend, that if you asked the average person, very few would know what a Prius was or what a "green" car was.

    Summary: the THC ( Toyota Hybrid Camry) is a WINNER!

    Listen please, I like your HSD products, but I need them packaged differently with a manual transmission.

    YMMV,

    MidCow

    P.S.- I too once had a 3 series, a 98 M3 sedan and it was very tight on space and high on maintenance
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    The first TCH's are due here in May June from Japan. I understand that KY will be online ind 4th Qtr ramping up to ??? Initial volume projections are ~ 4000 units monthly.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Why not in 3 yrs when the RAV is due for an updating. It's the same engine. Also the same engine as in the Highlander which is due for a remodel this time next year.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Your P.S.

    IMO, back in the mid 90's Toyota had already planned the Prius' demise. It was part and parcel of the overall strategy. Prius as you know is a Latin verb, 'to go before'. Why use a Latin verb for a Japanese vehicle? The vehicle was intended as a launch platform for hybrid technology for the US and World markets. It was a prophet if you will.

    It will always appeal to the geeks and innovators, but the Camry ( and maybe Highlander/Corolla ) were always the target vehicles for this technology.

    The Prius will retire gracefully in a while and the Camry will make Hybrid technology commonplace. 4c ICE, Hybrid or V6 ICE which do you prefer?
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    kdhspyder said:
    "The Prius will retire gracefully in a while and the Camry will make Hybrid technology commonplace. 4c ICE, Hybrid or V6 ICE which do you prefer? "

    I would prefer the Hybrid with a 6-speed manual transmission! It could then be a replacement for my wife's 2000 Avalon, which has been a great car.

    Cheers,

    MidCow

    P.S.- Someone is going to have to break the news to John1701A about the demise of the Prius
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    That's the new regs that the IRS stipulated last week. Each manufacturer has to register a qualifying VIN with the IRS in the format stipulated.

    BTW.. the FULL tax credit continues for at least one full quarter after the 60K unit limit is reached, probably to give the IRS some 'wiggle room' as to which vehicle exactly was #60000 and which was #60001. Thereafter the credit declines to 50% then 25% then to zero sometime next year likely.
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