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Comments
I'd estimate that for the first 6 months shipments/sales will be ~ 4000/mo for all 1700 stores in NA. That's your 2-3 monthly. I will tend to agree with you that if the sales parallel the Prius CA will get 5 times as many as 2nd place VA... then MA, NY/NJ, FL, TX.
In The Dayton area you might have several stores with one each for the first several months. Getting what you want and having it this summer may not be likely. When KY production kicks in at the end of the year.. go to Cinci or Lexington which are 'out the back door' so to speak.
I used the EPA site where they rate the 2005 trunk at 17 cu ft. Edmund's says 16.7 cu ft. 15 cu. ft is still going backward in my opinion. A 9-10 cu ft trunk is a sub-compact size.
it appears Toyota is already addressing my concern about trunk space.
Toyota appears ready to use some of Georgtown's capacity for a tall station wagon.
So this may mean there will be a Camry version of a wagon down the road. A hyrid Camry wagon would definitely improve the 10.5 cubic feet of cargo space in the sedan.
Also it appears Camry owners are not getting younger:
The average age of a Accord buyer is 42
The average ago of a Camry buyer is 52
The overall average age of a Buick buyer is 62
For more details read the link below:
link title
You take my commentary far too lightly, D. You should know better.
Our Reviewer's Corrected 2007 Camry Hybrid Mileage
Because of the low fuel economy readings in my test of the Toyota Camry Hybrid, I asked for, and received, the car for a quick weekend of re-testing.
We drove the car to my daughter's, a trip of 375 miles, more than four times the mileage of the original test.
My mileage in this second test was 37.4 mpg, and it consisted of mostly highway miles, not the hybrid's ideal environment since they usually do better in urban driving. According to the onboard computer, I nudged over 40 mpg with cruise control set at 70 mph for one stretch.
I feel this is a closer indication of the kind of mileage one might expect with the Camry Hybrid, not the mid-20 mpg I achieved in my original test.
So Sorry...but thanks to the sharpest Internet audience, I have been corrected.
John Heilig>
Plus this by Autobytel.com
2007 Toyota Camry Hybrid First Drive
All Camry, with a compact appetite
by Brian Chee
Introduction
What’s New? The 2007 Toyota Camry Hybrid offers all the upgrades of the redesigned 2007 model, with a more fuel-efficient powertrain and a few extras.
Selling Points: The best-selling car in America now gets close to 40 mpg
Deal Breakers: Offered only as a more expensive trim, pricing out CE and LE buyers
Our Advice: The best of all worlds, if you’re willing to pay for it
MEET THE COMPETITION 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid First Drive
2005 Hybrid Comparison
Toyota Highlander Hybrid Road Test
RELATED LINKS 2007 Toyota Camry Photo Gallery
2007 Toyota Camry First Drive
PALM SPRINGS, Calif. – It’s coming, and for those locked down in the frigid winter weather, it can’t get here soon enough: summer heat, the kind that puts sweat glands into overdrive and makes life a damp, day-to-day grind.
But it sure beats scraping ice off a windshield.
At least on the hot days to come, you can escape the blazing sun with treats that take your mind off the slow burn. Nothing beats vanilla ice cream for chasing the blues away on a hot, sweaty day. But order that sundae with multiple flavors and it runs together into a big, tasteless melting blob of color – the frozen dessert equivalent of sensory overload. Consider, too, all the things you can do with vanilla – and the ice cream will actually accentuate your creativity.
Mmmm.
Just like a cone of vanilla on a sweltering summer day, there are few cars out there that refresh quite like the Toyota Camry. It’s big enough, powerful enough, priced right, stays in one piece, rarely gives its owners any trouble, and the good taste hangs around for a nice long time. Changing such a successful recipe is a dicey game to play, so when Toyota went about redesigning the 2007 Toyota Camry, it did so with a surgical touch. The result is a better version of vanilla, and now there’s even a hybrid flavor – which is like getting all the taste of the best vanilla ice cream but with half the calories. Few people can say no to something like that, and Toyota is ready to prove it with a 2007 Camry Hybrid that represents the next stage of this burgeoning technology.
First, there was the Honda Insight, a nice little car that used gasoline like a debutante sips lemonade. Then the Toyota Prius and the Honda Civic came along, proving that people would pay more for the technology. A strange experiment with V6 engines was next up, one that left most of us cold. Now it’s the Camry’s turn, and we’re getting warm fuzzies.
The 2007 Toyota Camry Hybrid is a compelling combination that matches the treats found in America’s best-selling car with our growing need for fuel economy and our lust for power – at least enough to make us feel alive on the road. At an average of about 38 miles per gallon in combined city and highway travels, a virtually transparent driving experience and a combined horsepower rating of 192, the 2007 Camry Hybrid puts it all together. It’s the car with the right answers to most of our motoring questions, except, perhaps this sticky remaining query: will the Average Joe be able to afford one?
Questioning my verasity is always....questionable.
DrFill
The evidence you provided shows the merits of owning a Camry hybrid. I am not denying that at all.
BUT as I mentioned in an initial post any hybrid sedan is quite useless for someone who values cargo/trunk space.
Your veracity is intact . But I do seriously question your views on Lexus, BMW and MB, but that is definitely a discussion for another forum
DrFill
http://money.cnn.com/2006/03/28/Autos/toyota_hybrid.reut/index.htm
If link is bad go to money dot cnn dot com
I see prius like waiting list for the next 2 years on this car! Is toyota going to kill GM or what? Toyota always say we don't want to be number one, yea right.
The hybrid Camry priced 5k below the hybrid Accord
Ouch for Honda!
The hybrid Camry priced 5k below the hybrid Accord
Ouch for Honda!"
I suspect we may see an I4 Accord Hybrid in the near future...
Dollars to donuts the I4 HAH never appears. It would neither be as powerful nor as efficient as the TCH. In the same way the HCH is less by a degree or two than the Prius the I4 HAH will be that way with the TCH. That's not a comparo Honda wants to see. Now subject to sudden secret improvements in the IMA it might occur. But not as it exists today.
First of all - it's priced fairly well. It's only $825 more than the XLE 4 cylinder. The XLE 4 cyl with stability control has a sticker of $25,655. The Camry Hybrid, which has stability control as standard equipment, stickers for $26,480 With tax incentives, that premium should drop to just about nothing.
If the real world fuel economy is in the mid to high 30's, it will easily pay for itself.
It's very curious why there is such a small price premium on the Camry, yet such an outrageous premium for the Highlander Hybrid.
The current HH is a dated model and definitely needs to be re-skinned and re-engineered. Selling a premium priced hybrid version of a dated model is unfortunately a tough sell.
IMO Toyota should be guided by the FT-SX concept for it's upcoming Highlander as pictured below:
I am sure a reasonably priced hybrid highlander that resembles the above vehicle would sell just fine.
The Camry Hybrid is only $825 more than a comparably equipped Camry XLE
If the 3.5L 268 hp ICE next year goes for ~$31000 I think a 2.4L HH will be in the same range.. not $36000. Your choices then would be
268 hp and FE values in the 22 mpg range combined, or
192 hp and FE values in the low 30's combined.
Funny you should mention this, I don't think that the Accord has put in the new technology electric motor yet. That would yield more power.
Plus, they could also put electric motors directly on the wheels - which is a different implementation, of course.
LOL So you won't respond when you are wrong! But yet, you freely accuse other peopel of undermining and semantics.
Have a good day! I hope your Prius is still trouble free and getting you great mileage. If I were to choose right now, the Camry Hybrid would be my overwelming choice; it does everything very well with its HSD gears!
Cheers and Be Cool,
MidCow
That still doesn't change the fact that they don't operate the same way. It also doesn't change the fact that making this personal is clearly not constructive, even more evidence of undermining.
JOHN
Poor Babies.
The XLE has integrated fog lamps, dual exhaust, reclining back seat, manually retractable rear window sunshade, sliding center armrest and trunk luggage box. Not sure about the digital clock (hybrid - does it have it?). Has larger trunk.
According to Edmunds - fully loaded 4 cyl. XLE is $28.5K. Fully loaded Hybrid is $30.3K.
Hybrid is looking like a great deal, with or without the tax rebate.
XLE also includes illum. visor mirrors, power passenger seat,wood trim, tachometer, better handling (less weight) and alarm that you didn't mention.
Hybrid has Smartkey, LED taillights and blue tinted headlights that you didn't mention.
Those should be the major feature differences
Real $ difference with XLE at $300 over invoice and Hybrid at MSRP - about $4,200.
I can't justify the Hybrid based on fuel savings and I can't use any possible tax incentive.
If I kept it for 8 years and ignored the time value of money it would make sense.
Gampa
All contact by email, got the price + T&L, went over signed the papers and was gone in 15 minutes.
No pressure to buy coatings, maintenance, extended warranty or other dealer add-on crap.
A guy I referred to them is getting the same deal. He picks his XLE V6 up manana.
I also had quotes for $400, $500 and $600 over dealer invoice from other area dealers.
Got my Toyota extended warranty (84/100,000/0 deductible Platinum Plus) from an east coast dealer for $880. Not worried about the engine and transmission but all the electronics, power features and engine system parts. Just an insurance policy that I wouldn't have purchased for more than $900.
Just put on my mudguards. Next the SE trunk spoiler!
Here's my price... do you want the sale?.. If not... NEXT!!!!
I like it!
Thanks.
Saves me three hours of stress in the dealership.
Gampa
No stress and no waste of time if the salesman doesn't have to tell you what you need or try to sell you what he has.
Welcome to the party!!!
EBAY is also the largest car sales company in the world. Great deals there too.
A) Guesstimate - 12 months to come off sticker at your local store. If it's as wildly popular as the Prius then 36 months. Close to invoice? probably not at your local store unless there is some unforeseen flaw in the vehicle or marketing ( HH sold as a V8 ) which doesnt seem likley.
If OTOH you are willing to travel and buy one on a vacation then you might search the internet and find bargains almost right away. While in SoCal there were $3000-5000 surcharges on the Prius in other areas at the same time they were discounted $500-1000. YRMV
2) Answer. There is little downside to buying out of your locality as long as you are comfortable with the store you are dealing with. If your local store offers incentives to buy from them but you buy elsewhere then you lose those, and vice versa. From SE VA I've had Prius clients from Niagara Falls ( 2 ), NYC, Pensacola, San Diego!! Several E Coast stores do this...meet you at the airport with the papers and you drive away from there.
1) Does the nav screen also display info related to hybrid engine, e.g mode, FE, what power systems are in use that instant, etc? Does it display MORE info than the dash guages in a non-nav-equipped car? or just differently? or not at all?
2) Does the nav screen get used for any audio purposes or is the audio system completely separate? (e.g. radio station, cd title/track info)
3) If you get an after-market interface to connect IPOD to OEM audio system via aux input, does nav screen show any of the audio info?
4) for the hands-free cell phone use using Bluetooth, is the nav screen used in any capacity?
The common theme of all these questions: other than display nav info/maps, what else does having the nav screen add, if anything?
Thanks.
That would be a waste of 3 hours and 45 minutes!!!!!!!!!!
The problem is, you HAVE to get and pay for all these features when you get the Camry hybrid.
So if they really want to appeal to the masses and help the masses save gas, why don't they make a Camry hybrid with the same equipment levels as the volume LE?
It would be popular with people who don't necessarily want stuff like Push button start and fancy stereo (and there are a lot of them, seeing as how the LE is by far the best seller), and is just interested in saving gas.
It seems to me that a Camry hybrid with the exact same equipment as the 4 cyl. LE and priced at about $1000 higher would just sell in droves.
They'll sell as many as they want just as they are and make more money on each one with the extra margin on the options and accessories.
You are definitely not a business person.
I'm sure that you know exactly what the optimum profit points are at Toyota Motors.
If you know anything about business, you would know that companys do not always make business decisions that optimize profits, both present and future. In fact, it is very difficult to do so.
There's a reason why car companies sell cars without all the bells and whistles.
Oh wait, I'm not a business person like you, so who am I to speculate.
Public companies seek to maximize profit for their shareholders through their decisions affecting all phases of the business.
Pricing, product mix, models, distribution, competition, manufacturing capacity, etc. all enter into the decisions.
In fact, it is very difficult to do so.
You think???
There's a reason why car companies sell cars without all the bells and whistles.
You would be speculating about that reason!!
One step at a time...
Next is the Sienna & maybe the Corolla and see after 3 years if the Camry sells out.
Maybe the comparison you should look at is that it's a V6 with FE ratings in the mid 30's. Now it's a bargain vs the other V6's
Its teeny weeny miniscule trunk is its Achille's rump.
A Echo has more ample trunk space than a hybrid Camry. And we all know an Echo at Home Depot can be a challenge (unless you buy nails and screws)
I think many here are discounting this trunk issue. I believe that the HAH lost many a possible customer to that very item. It will probably sell the numbers that Toyota is building. I don't think it will be a big seller to those that would buy an LE. Most people want a decent sized trunk. I could have liked it except for that.
Rush hours: 32.3mpg
Mountaineeing/high-speed fwy: 38.3mpg
BTW,
0-60mph 7.3s
1/4mile 15.6s
But its cargo space prevents such a possibility. Even the HAH has far more trunk space than the hybrid Camry. It is scary to imagine the trunk space of a hybrid Corolla. :lemon:
I don't know about other V6's. Camry Hybrid's acceleration is about halfway between the V6's in this class and the I4's.
I think this may attract Taurus, Intrepid, CamCordAlt buyers from the late 90's who are ready to trade up and have been doing very well for 10 yrs with old tech V6 engines in the 175-200 hp range . Now these new buyers can move easily into a brand new vehicle with the same HP and performance but increase FE by as much as 50% over what they were driving.
This initial version is not intended I think primarily for the typical CamCordAlt 4c owner where reliability, low price and economy all have to go together. But in the stated longterm strategy one might walk in and be asked: 'V6, 4c or hybrid? CE, LE, SE or XLE?'