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Toyota Camry Hybrid

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  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    John is as fully aware of the raison d'etre for the Prius as anyone. He was one of the first and a good source of information since before the '04's launched.

    BTW.. I was trying to do it before but dont yet have all the specs. I believe the new XLE V6 will be more powerful and have more features ( for certain ) and nearly the same room ( TBD ) as the 2000 XLS Avalon... at $3000 to $3500 less money!! Impressive.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    I sell them at another store and opted for the last '05 Prius on the lot on Nov 30th for the same reasons as your two buyers. But at 45000 mi/y I need mega efficiency. OTOH I reserve the right to change my mind since I've just come out of 15 yrs of trouble free Camry ownership over 4 different vehicles.

    Maybe I'll trade the Prius in July on my birthday. Nahh, I'll just max it out in 5 yrs and get then Gen7 Camry with Hybrid tech.
  • muskyfevermuskyfever Member Posts: 20
    After reading about the 2007 camry hybrid and now seeing pictures of it all I can say is WOW!!!

    A car that big getting 43mpg? It looks like a cross between a Lexus and the new Maxima.

    I'm going to buy one! Toyota destroys the competition again!
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    OK, since there are specklings of "THC" and "TCH", let's settle on a common acronym.

    I think since the

    Honda Civic Hybrid is the HCH

    that the

    Toyota Camry Hybrid should be referred to as the TCH

    Anyone disagree? Let's make it the TCH and keep it consistent, agreed ...???.... :shades:
  • john1701ajohn1701a Member Posts: 1,897
    Prius is a hatchback, the only one available from Toyota. Toyota's business objective is to increase marketshare. Eliminating Prius would be counter-productive, especially since it is also known as the vehicle of which new technologies are introduced. So claims that it will be retired simply don't make any sense.

    Just look at how Prius doesn't compete directly with Camry-Hybrid. Toyota clearly hasn't positioned the design configuration to overlap, as some people have eluded.

    JOHN
  • toyotamovertoyotamover Member Posts: 19
    Sorry kdh but I don't think Toyota has any plans to retire the Prius. Between the yearly dealer meetings, talks with Jim Press and others as well as numerous other meetings I have never heard a mention of that - ever.

    I agree with you that it is the prophet but I think that every time Toyota introduces new Hybrid technology in future - they are probably working on the 3rd or maybe 4th generation as I write this - it will always start with the Prius and make it's way to the other models. I have been told by the powers to be at Toyota that the Hybrid option will be less than $1000 by 2010 and offered on every model they make. The Prius helps them achive that with it's volume.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    The first TCH's are due here in May June from Japan. I understand that KY will be online ind 4th Qtr ramping up to ??? Initial volume projections are ~ 4000 units monthly.

    Just curious but will the TCH that will be offered during spring be from Japan?

    If I am not mistaken are "Made in Japan" Camrys different from the US made Camrys ? Especially in terms of dimensions(Japanese Camrys are smaller) and different interior designs.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Launch vehicle for new technology makes sense.. But I think the emphasis from here on will be the Camry as it always is. If Prius sales slump in favor of the Camry, Oh well...

    I didnt mean to imply that the Prius was done after this model. Another iteration certainly seems likely but the Camry always is the heart of the product line and IMO the emphasis will be there.

    I also own an MR2 which as you know was allowed to retire until a later date.
  • cammer2cammer2 Member Posts: 38
    I've read conflicting information about the platform being used for the 2007 Camry.

    On the one hand, it seems like the 2007 model should still be based on the existing 2002-2006 model. On the other hand, I've heard it's based on a new "global platform" from which the 2006 Avalon came.

    Anyone know which one of these is right?
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    If I am not mistaken are "Made in Japan" Camrys different from the US made Camrys ?

    There was a perception at one time that the Camry's made in Japan were 'better'. I think that's been put to bed by now. Smaller no.. unless you were joshing..
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    The new Camry is definitely not based on the existing 02-06 platform.

    Does that mean the new Camry shares its platform with the 06 Avalon? I am not sure?
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Officially they said only that it's a new platform with a 2" longer wheelbase. Whether that is the Avalon platform or not has not been stated.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    CAMRY HYBRID PRELIMINARY SPECIFICATIONS ENGINE

    Gasoline Engine Type 2.4-liter, 4-cylinder, aluminum alloy block with aluminum alloy head Bore and Stroke 3.48 x 3.78 inches

    Displacement 2,362 cc Expansion Ratio 12.5:1

    Valve Train Twin-cam, 4-valve/cylinder with VVT-i Horsepower (SAE Net)* 147 horsepower @ 6,000 rpm

    Torque* 138 lb-ft @ 4,400 rpm Recommended Fuel Regular unleaded

    Emission Control AT-PZEV ELECTRIC MOTOR/GENERATOR/POWER STORAGE

    Motor Type Permanent Magnet Synchronous Motor Electric Motor Power Output 105 kW/4,500 RPM

    Torque 199 lb.-ft. @ 0-1,500 RPM Battery Type Nickel-Metal Hydride (150 lbs)

    Nominal Voltage 244.8 V (204 cells, 1.2V/cells) Transmission Electronic Controlled Continuously variable transmission

    Capacity 6.5 ampere hour Battery Peak Horsepower Rating 45 horsepower

    System Voltage 650 volts maximum COMBINED

    Hybrid System Net Horsepower 192 horsepower * The Society of Automotive Engineers revised Standard J1349, which sets forth the protocol for testing horsepower and torque as of January, 2005. The revision specifies that certain equipment be installed on the engine and operating at the time of testing, as well as the use of the manufacturer required grade of fuel during the test. Presumably, all manufacturers will be using the revised Standard for future tests. Toyota decided to retest most of its engines using the new protocol this year. Consequently, the horsepower and torque ratings for many of our vehicles declined this year. Any changes in horsepower and torque ratings based on the implementation of the new testing protocol, however, have no impact on actual engine performance.

    2007 TOYOTA

    CAMRY HYBRID PRELIMINARY SPECIFICATIONS SUSPENSION

    Front Independent MacPherson strut suspension with stabilizer bar Rear Independent dual-link with stabilizer bar

    BRAKES

    Type Electronically Controlled Brake system (ECB) Front Ventilated front disc (hydraulic with power assist) with standard Anti-Lock Brake (ABS) system and integrated regenerative brake system Front Diameter 11.65 inches Rear Solid disc (hydraulic with power assist) with standard Anti-lock Brake System (ABS) and integrated regenerative brake system Rear Diameter 11.06 inches Parking Foot pedal type

    STEERING

    Type Electric power-assist rack-and-pinion Turning circle 36.1feet (11 meters)

    TIRES AND WHEELS

    Wheel size 6.5 x 16 inches Type and Material Aluminum alloy

    Tire Size P215/60 R16 Tire Type All-season

    Spare Temporary CAPACITIES

    Fuel Tank 17.1 gallons

    2007 TOYOTA

    CAMRY HYBRID PRELIMINARY SPECIFICATIONS EXTERIOR DIMENSIONS (inches)

    Wheelbase 109.3 Overall Length 189.2

    Overall Width 71.7 Overall Height 57.5

    Tread Width (front/rear) 62.0/61.6 Minimum Ground Clearance 5.9

    Coefficient of Drag 0.27 INTERIOR DIMENSIONS (inches)

    Headroom (front/rear) 38.8/37.8 Legroom (front/rear) 41.6/38.3

    Shoulder Room (front/rear) 57.8/56.7 Hip Room (front/rear) 54.6/53.9

    EPA Passenger Volume 101.4 cubic feet EPA ESTIMATED FUEL ECONOMY* (mpg)

    City/highway/combined 43/37/40 *Actual mileage may vary VEHICLE MASS (lbs)

    Curb Weight 3,637

    2007 TOYOTA

    CAMRY HYBRID PRELIMINARY SPECIFICATIONS SAFETY AND SECURITY FEATURES

    Driver and front passenger advanced airbags Front and rear side curtain airbags, driver and front passenger seat-mounted side airbags and driver’s knee airbag

    Side-impact door beams Three-point seatbelts for all seating positions, Emergency Locking Retractors (ELR) on driver’s belt, Automatic/Emergency Locking Retractors (ALR/ELR) on all passenger seatbelts; three-point front seatbelts with adjustable shoulder anchors Anti-lock Brake System (ABS) and Electronic Brake-force Distribution (EBD) Vehicle Dynamic Integrated Management (VDIM) Child protector rear door locks ISOFIX CRS top tether anchor brackets and ISOFIX CRS anchor attachments Daytime running lights BASIC LIMITED WARRANTY COVERAGE

    3-year/36,000-mile Comprehensive 5-year/60,000-mile Powertrain

    5-year/unlimited-mileage Corrosion Perforation 8-year/100,000-mile Hybrid-related Component Coverage

    15-year/150,000-mile Hybrid-related Component Coverage (applicable states are: CA, MA, NY, NJ, VT, CT, ME, NH and RI) with the exception of the hybrid battery. The hybrid battery is warranted for 10 years/150,000 miles.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    STANDARD FEATURES-CAMRY HYBRID PRELIMINARY

    •P215/60 R16 tires with 16-inch alloy wheels
    •Temporary spare tire
    •Tire pressure monitor system
    •Halogen headlamps with auto on/off feature
    •Daytime running lights
    •Smart Entry with push button start
    •Dual color-keyed power outside mirrors
    • Heated outside mirrors
    •Eight-way power driver seat and four-way manual passenger seat
    •Power door locks with anti-lockout feature
    •Power windows with driver’s auto-down
    • Optitron meters
    •Fabric seat and door trim
    •Premium AM/FM/six-disc CD changer MP3/WMA compatible with
    Bluetooth™ with eight speakers, 440 watts
    •Auto-dimming electrochromic rearview mirror with compass
    • Homelink®
    •Dual zone climate control air conditioner with air filter (electric)
    •Leather wrapped steering wheel and shift knob
    • Cruise control
    •Tilt steering wheel with audio/Bluetooth™/climate control
    •Manual telescopic steering wheel
    • Courtesy lamp
    • Maintenance indicator
    •Driver and front passenger advanced airbags
    •Seat-mounted side airbags
    •Side curtain airbags
    •Driver’s knee airbag
    •Anti-lock Braking System (ABS)
    •Vehicle Dynamics Integrated Management (VDIM)
    •Rear center headrests
    • Engine immobilizer
    •Chrome exhaust tip
    •Rear disc brake (regenerative)
    • Cargo net
    •Audio auxiliary jack
    • Multi-informational display
    •60/40 split fold-down rear seat
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    Kdhspyder said:

    " John is as fully aware of the raison d'etre for the Prius as anyone. He was one of the first and a good source of information since before the '04's launched. "

    You are right, now that I think about it, I did learn a lot of Prius information from John1701A in the Prius 2004+ forum. John cleared up a lot of my misunderstndings

    A couple of examples:

    In message #2701, I learned that instead of dusk sensing autolights the Prius had updated thier auto lights to a simplier off/on switch. I had always thought before that that was auto-off and not automatic lights. But John cleared up my misunderstanding.

    In message #3830, I learned that the Prius did not have either transmission or gears. Instead of gears the Prius has a power-split-device. Before I had incorrectly thought that a transmssion was used to connect the power of the engine to the turning motion of wheels through gears (plantary in the case of the Prius). But John cleared up my misunderstanding.

    The Prius was a good car, but the replacement TCH (Toyota Camry Hybrid) will be much better.

    Cheers,

    MidCow
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    I disagree,

    the TCH and the Prius can coexist quite well as long as the third generation Prius is differentiated with new technologies(as I believe the Prius 3 of the future will become a "new technology show case car" for Toyota).

    MPG focused customers may end up buying the hybrid Corolla/Matrix in future years instead of the Prius, especially if the hybrid Corolla is significantly cheaper than the Prius.

    Despite the future hybrid Corolla affect on Prius sales, I do believe many will still stick to a Prius for its cool geeky image(pardon the oxymoron).
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Nice pictures of the Camry hybrid on the Toyota.com site.

    http://www.toyota.com/
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Do you think the Camry hybrid with all the bells and whistles will be more or less than the top of the line Prius?

    TMV for a package # 8 Prius in San Diego is $31,366. I cannot imagine a fully loaded Camry Hybrid for less.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Loaded up Prius here in Va is ~ $29600.

    I'd guess an XLE trim TCH will be ~ $31000
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I looks like the dealers in SoCA add a couple grand to the Prius and the Honda Civic Hybrid. I guess they feel like they deserve it. I would never do business with a dealer that is gouging.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Hybrid Camry pricing is what will determine whether HC's become mainstream or not. At a more personal level it will be pricing that will determine whether I will keep or cancel my HC order.

    Price gouging and waiting lists for hybrids is a non-issue at least here in Canada since there are not as many hybrid tax incentives here as in the USA.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    I've got a dealer who is a golf buddy of my cube-mate who is saying they are getting training in a month or so and the car in "a couple of months."

    That means late Spring/Early summer instead of Fall 2006 which Toyota is telling the world.

    Is something brewing that will make the TCH available earlier than expected?
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    I also have considered trading up from my 2005 HCH to a 2007 TCH after looking up close at some pics of the TCH and getting pricing info.

    If they "really" price the non-NAV version of the TCH at around $26K, I might do that instead of paying $22K for a 2007 HCH like my original plan was.

    Hopefully Toyota will consider people who want the car for $26K but cannot afford (or refuse to pay) $30K for it.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    It will be a 2007 model from all I can tell. Do you think they will bring in Japanese built ones first or hold off until they start producing them in KY? If 12k a month does not cut into Prius sales I would be very surprised.

    By October, Convis said the plant will begin manufacturing the Camry hybrid in Georgetown, where the company plans to build 12,000 a month.

    http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060121/BIZ/601210314/1001-
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    My sales rep told me that I can expect to have my TCH by May or June.
    The TCH will be made in Japan until Tennessee production kicks in sometime late 2006. I was told the new TCH models will have new colours.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Is there an option to delete that obnoxious screen? If there is I may purchase the Camry Hybrid.
    If the audio is integrated with the video display, then forget it.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    I must admit it does look distracting.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    As far as I have heard it has always been May/June with vehicles initially from Japan and then 4th Qtr with vehicles from KY. May/June is what we are expecting.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    The initial goal is ~45000 vehicles annually or 4000 a month. I believe the 12000/mo is a maximum potential foreseen. Heck that's nearly 1/3 of total camry sales now. They likely will move some vehicles, base CE's (?), to their new JV in Indiana thereby freeing up space in KY for Hybrid production.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    If its like the Prius then there is a kill option. but the audio is normally integrated into it. We'll have to wait. You can just leave the screen on the audio option prolly.
  • max460max460 Member Posts: 25
    Nextel cup in 2007!! they will race the 2007 camry competition got tougher
    http://www.nascar.com/2006/news/headlines/cup/01/23/toyota.cup/index.html
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    Concerning mileage how does 43/48 sound to you . According to Wayne Gerdes ( Excel) in the Accord mileage forum he can easily achive that mileage and better with a V6 automatic Accord. see: xcel, "Honda Accord Owners: MPG-Real World Numbers" #178, 22 Jan 2006 8:35 pm

    I can only get 33 with my Accord on the highway so I am asking the tooth-fairy for another 15 miles per gallon like Excel gets.

    YMMV,

    MidCow
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    In that case I will cancel my hybrid Camry order and buy Gerdes' Accord :D
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    That sounds like quite an exceptional car! 43/48 with 253 horsepower! Who thinks he never uses more than 60 of them?
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Toyota is already racing in NASCAR in the Craftsman Truck Series. They field 6 Tundra's.
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    Actually his is not the HAH model but the regular V6
  • xcelxcel Member Posts: 1,025
    Hi Midnightcowboy:

    Actually it's the
    PZEV based I4    . The TCH will be good for maybe 50 lmpg for someone that wants high FE … That someone would not be you given your poor FE driving habits :(

    Good Luck

    Wayne R. Gerdes
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    Excel,

    Must you always be so condesending about other's FE (Fuel Economy). You emphasis my poor FE drving habits, but I get equal or better than the EPA estimates.

    You therefore are condesending and insulting to almost all Edmund's forum members because they do not or cannot obtain the extemely high miles per gallon you achieve.

    That is great that you can achieve such high FE, but other drivers do not and cannot achieve that high of FE. That is no reason to insult me and other Edmunds forum members.

    YMMV,

    MidCow
  • bobflbobfl Member Posts: 19
    Has anyone figured out what the tax credit on a Camry Hybrid might be? :)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The IRS has not determined the tax credit for any hybrid. So far it is an educated guess by several different entities. It is based on the improvement in mileage from the previous generation of non hybrid.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/01/toyota_rolls_ou.html

    203 foot pounds of Torque in the TCH - Nice !!! :D :shades:

    The result is a combined 192 hp (143 kW) from the hybrid system with 275 Nm of torque, with estimated fuel economy for the hybrid of 43 mpg US city, 37 mpg US highway (40 mpg US combined).

    PS
    the formula is NM*.7376=FtLbs
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    No split fold down rear seat for the new hybrid Camry. There will only be a arm rest pass-through.

    I guess the battery is a bit too intrusinve to allow fold down rear seats. That's a shame.

    The following is from the www.treehugger.com site:

    Both '07 automatics include a manual shift gate. The Hybrid teams a special 2.4-liter 4-cyl gas engine with a battery-powered electric motor for 192 net hp. It teams with a continuously variable automatic transmission (CVT) providing near-infinite drive ratios. Like Toyota's smaller Prius hybrid, Camry's automatically drives on either or both power sources, depending on conditions, and requires no plug-in charging. Antilock 4-wheel disc brakes are standard for all models. So are front torso side airbags, head-protecting curtain side airbags, and, for the first time, a driver's knee airbag.

    The Hybrid adds antiskid/traction control that's available for other models. SEs come with 17-inch wheels, the other models with 16s. SEs also have a firmer suspension, and specific trim inside and out. The Hybrid also has unique interior and exterior trim. A split folding rear seat is standard except on SE and Hybrid, which have a fixed seat with center pass-through. Leather upholstery is included on the V6 XLE, available for the 4-cyl XLE and the SE. A navigation system with CD changer and wireless cell-phone link is optional for SE and XLE, as are heated seats. A new-to-Camry keyless-entry/starting system is included on Hybrid and available for V6 XLE.

    It is interesting to note that the automatic transmissions are now 5 and 6 speeds (except for the hybrid which gets a continuously variable transmission, like the Prius). Until recently, most automatics had fewer gears than manual transmissions, but trying to achieve higher fuel economy has pushed automakers to add extra gears.

    Also, it seems that - if this information is reliable - Toyota has decided to position the Camry hybrid between the 4 cylinders and V6 versions when it comes to power (158hp for the 4-cyl, 192hp for the hybrid and 268hp for the V6). The thinking probably is that a good portion of mainstream buyers will consider the extra power a good reason to pay a bit more for the gas-electric drivetrain.

    In fact, since the current generation's Camry has a V6 that generates at most 210hp, the next generation hybrid's 192hp can almost be sold as: "V6 power, better than 4-cylinder gas mileage.
  • negativenegative Member Posts: 107
    Treehugger is repeating some old information that first appeared on the Internet before the debut of the '07 in Detroit and may be inaccurate.

    The specs for the hybrid on pressroom.toyota.com indicate that the hybrid WILL have a folding rear seat. But if this photo of the hybrid is accurate, the folding seat won't be of much value, because the pass-through is blocked by the battery.

    I'll be seeing it myself at the auto show in two weeks. I hope the battery lowers into the trunk floor.

    image
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    There is an interesting post on Edmund's batteries for the 2007 Camry Hybrid:

    toyolla2, "Advanced Course in Hybrid Engineering" #115, 24 Jan 2006 7:50 pm

    It looks like Toyota is maybe rethinking its battery direction.

    One has to wonder why? maybe there is trouble lurking as more and more Prius batteries come toward the end of their warranty life?

    YMMV,

    MidCow

    P.S.- The 2007 Camry Hybrid looks to be an outstanding auto !!
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    I went to the toyota site and I could not find anything suggesting that the hybrid will have folding rear seats.

    Maybe I overlooked it :confuse:
  • negativenegative Member Posts: 107
    It's not as obvious as that huge battery. Click on the link below.

    link title
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Thanks!
  • JBaumgartJBaumgart Member Posts: 890
    Nice standard feature list.

    Is there any preliminary information on available options or option packages?
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Here is one very short list of options for the hybrid Camry:

    Options
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    I'll take mine with moonroof, no navigation and no leather please. :)
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