What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?

ateixeira · May 2009

Remember, you have to compare the safety of the Tata Nano to the scooter/bicycle/donkey it competes against, and so relatively speaking it is a very safe vehicle at its price point.

Don't donkeys bite?

For $2500 you have a different set of rules, and competition.

nortsr1 · May 2009

Yes, it does run with a different set of rules;however, our set of strict safety rules would hike the cost of that TATA to a considerably higher price point. Perhaps it would be suitable to replace golf carts in all those new "Senior Devlopments".

iluvmysephia1 · May 2009

in golf carts legally in this dinky SE Arizona town my wife and I live in. Little electric golf carts. The Nano would fit right in, might me a better and safer choice for these guys to peddle around in. One guy pokes up to the Nursing Home attached to the hospital my wife and I work in in one of these carts. Visits his wife who is in the Nursing home, every day. Lives like we all do, about a half mile from the hospital and nursing home!

The Tata Nano could make it here for one.

I'd feel safer in a Nano than a real golf cart, though they've really got some strong similarities.

explorerx4 · May 2009

get my one of my kids to work with me on making a video to lobby for one of the 100 fiesta's being lent out for 6 months for evaluation.
after looking at some of the video's, she is probably too young, anyway.

lilengineerboy · May 2009

Fiesta Movement

For those not in the know...

igozoomzoom · May 2009

And donkeys poop, that's a selling feature for the Tata Nano (no solid emissions)!

I wonder how it would hold up in a crash with a donkey? I once saw a Chevette that had hit a deer- wasn't pretty! Donkeys are bigger/heavier than deer...

I think they'll sell every one they can build just in India alone...and maybe China. It's obviously a car for "emerging markets" (Third World countries that are quickly becoming industrialized). Could you imagine merging into a U.S. highway with a 35hp 2-cylinder engine?

nippononly · May 2009

Could you imagine merging onto a U.S. highway with a 1.4L engine making 90+ hp? In a car weighing 1800 pounds? Because that's the option you will get, not the 2-cylinder version from India.

It will be very interesting if Tata brings this one to the U.S. A new car for $5000? I wonder what the warranty will be like.

The CEO of Tata called the U.S. market "unforgiving" and it is clear he is still not totally sold on bringing the thing here at all.

andre1969 · May 2009

Don't donkeys bite?

Dunno about biting, but they have a pretty mean kick, so that should discourage tailgaters. Only problem is, they tend to rise up when they kick, which could result in the "driver" being thrown, unless belted in/on properly.

ateixeira · May 2009

LOL, good point.

If you suffer a side impact while riding a donkey your leg is the crumple zone, though.

Back in college I had a 48hp Chevy Sprint so I know what it's like driving a slow car. Plan ahead, basically, for everything.

It was actually not awful around town, though, keeping up with the flow fairly well (I had a manual, the autos were probably a lot slower).

Depends on the weight, I suppose. Thing is, that car was, what 1800 lbs? To meet today's safety standards a similar car would weigh 2500 lbs and then the engine would not be enough.

igozoomzoom · May 2009

I had an '85 Honda Civic CRX HF in high school. It had a 58hp 1.5L and could barely get out of its own way...but getting 50mpg was no problem! It weighed just over 1700lbs, making it over 1950lbs including me (I'm not fat, I'm BIG-boned)!

On a separate note, the Ford Fiesta looks very promising! It shares a platform and many components with the Mazda2, which I'd love to see offered here, too.

andre1969 · May 2009

Back in college I had a 48hp Chevy Sprint so I know what it's like driving a slow car. Plan ahead, basically, for everything.

I have an old Consumer Guide from 1985 that tested a Chevy Sprint. They didn't do their own 0-60 testing, but in the text it mentioned that GM estimated it could do 0-60 in about 12 seconds with the stick shift. If you didn't get air conditioning.

Seriously, that's probably more than adequate for most driving. Heck, my two '79 New Yorkers, '76 LeMans, and '85 Silverado all take around 11-12 seconds to hit 60, and even so, it's not that often that I have to run them flat-out to get them to do what I need them to. And even merging onto highways, often it's pointless to run them flat-out, because then I'd be entering the highway faster than the flow of traffic, and only have to slow down.

ateixeira · May 2009

Cool, my roommate in college had one of those.

I dropped her off at the air port one time and drove it home for her. It didn't feel slow at all, but again that was an 1800 lb car.

Hers was probably a later model, I think it had 62hp.

I looked at those in 1991, but ended up in an Escort GT with 127hp. I guess I was tired of not being able to go up hills with the A/C on.

I recall looking at the price, and the HF was $300 cheaper than the LX or DX, IIRC, but those made 92hp. Then I thought...$30 per horse is a bargain. Didn't buy either, but I do remember shopping for them.

I don't think the problem today is a lack of horsepower, when even the cheapest cars break 100hp. It's weight. It's scary how many fairly basic cars weigh over 3000 lbs.

snakeweasel · May 2009

Seriously, that's probably more than adequate for most driving.

It is, a while back we timed ourselves in normal traffic. Typical 0-40mph times was between 12-15 seconds for a line of traffic coming off a stop light.

fezo · May 2009

My slow car was a 69 Volvo 142. It was O once you got up to speed but that was quite some time. Could be worse. It could have been an automatic. Or had air conditioning.

explorerx4 · May 2009

i was thinking about lobbying for a '101', but we are just too busy.

snakeweasel · May 2009

I had a friend from high school who had a 142 (not sure what year it was). His uncle gave it to him in our senior year in high school with a little over 200K on it. It was an ok car but reliable as all heck. I think he took it to well over 400K on the original engine and tranny. IIRC it had a 2 liter engine.

fezo · May 2009

You couldn't kill those things. I had mine up to 144K. It needed some work and had a bit of rust. It was one of those put some money into it or move on moments. They type where today I'd put the money into it. I was 26 at the time. 22 when I bought it.

ateixeira · May 2009

LOL

thegraduate · May 2009

Yes... both!

andre1969 · May 2009

From what I've read, the Smart can do 0-60 in around 12-13 seconds, depending on who you want to believe. I found one quarter mile stat of around 19.2 seconds at 70.5 mph. And I think top speed is electronically limited to 90 mph.

So, while it won't knock your socks off, it's still probably more than adequate for most needs. The only thing I'd worry about is highway merging. The 12-13 second 0-60 time doesn't scare me so much, but the quarter mile time does, and implies to me that the car is starting to get pushed to its limit after 60. For comparison, Consumer Reports tested a 1968 Dodge Dart with a 225 slant six (I remember this only because I used to own a similar 1969, so I know how it performed) and while it took them 14 seconds to get from 0-60, the quarter mile came in at 19 seconds at 72 mph. So, to get from 60 to 72 mph, it only took that car 5 seconds, while it's taking the Smart more like 6-7 seconds to get from 60 to 70.5 mph.

And FWIW, that Dart seemed perfectly capable at the time, although I'm sure if I had it to drive today, it wouldn't be nearly as good as I remember!

I also wonder then, how the Smart would do in highway passing? Such as, if you're cruising along at 65-70 and want to pass, but traffic in the passing lane is rolling past at a much faster clip. Would the Smart have the guts to pass safely?

bumpy · May 2009

It's not that big of a deal. Just plan out your spot, drop down a gear or two, then drop the hammer on it. If that's not enough for you, there is the turbo kit.

ateixeira · May 2009

Should be fine for a city car, where 0-40 is all that matters, just to get out of people's way.

Where it would feel slow would be passing on the highway, 50-70 maybe, though hopefully the owner isn't driving often on those kinds of roads.

explorerx4 · May 2009

i work across the river, about a mile as the crow flies, from a 'smart' dealer.
maybe i have seen 4 or 5, ever.
last weekend i saw one for sale up in litchfield.
it was sitting in the yard with grass growing around it, like many other cars that have been waiting for a buyer for a while.

nippononly · May 2009

Headed to LA with some friends last weekend in their Sienna, there we were, cruising along around 75 mph, got passed by a Smart car! And it was way out in the middle of nowhere too, it was clearly someone making the trek from SF to LA like us.

thegraduate · May 2009

The only time I ever see Smarts on the road are on I-65, typically traveling 65+ mph. When my 130hp '96 Accord is working hard climbing Shades Mountain in Birmingham, AL, I wonder how the little Smart is making it.

ateixeira · May 2009

I saw one today on my way in. I was in my Miata, top down, enjoying the drive.

I can't help but think - why would you get a Smart when leftover 08 Miatas have a $5000 incentive tied to them right now? I doubt I paid significantly more than that Smart owner did.

igozoomzoom · May 2009

I live about an hour north of Atlanta in a small college town. There are a few kids at the college who drive a Smart and I hate getting stuck behind them. It's very hilly in this area and they drop down to 40-45 going up one of the bigger hills, despite the 55mph limit. It's happened twice so far! Thankfully, there's a spot to make a quick pass just before and after that hill...and I can get around them without even taking my Mazda3 out of 5th gear.

The Smart makes a great city car- tiny, easy to park in tight spaces, adequate power for in-town driving. But if you routinely drive on highways/interstates or any long distances, the Nissan Versa would be cheaper to buy, a lot faster and more comfortable and gets 34mpg highway.

thegraduate · May 2009

With three Hondas in my driveway, dating from 1996 to 2006, and a 2007 in my parents possession, I can say honestly I've never heard of any A/C issues, other than a few complaints about rocks hitting the condensers and making holes in them, destroying them.

No representation is made that the quality of air conditioning services provided by vehicles produced by Honda of America is better than that of air conditioning services provided by alternate automobile manufacturers.

Paid shills? Please... I see you're a relatively new poster here. Just a friendly heads-up to ya... hosts will remove posts with personal attacks. :shades:

Happy Hon...I mean Motoring.

stever · May 2009

This isn't the Honda AC problems discussion. That would be the Honda CR-V AC Compressor Issues discussion.

stever · May 2009

Goes 40mph, and gets 70 miles per gallon. And it's street legal.

Worlds Tiniest Car

nippononly · May 2009

There is NO WAY that's street legal! :-P

stever · May 2009

No worries about HUMMERs. Just drive right under them. Maybe duck a little.

nippononly · May 2009

And there I was hoping you were pointing to a description of some new Honda, smaller than Fit, that we would be getting in the U.S.! If only....

:-(

ateixeira · May 2009

If he did drive under a Hummer, he'd have a convertible, and then there would at least be enough head room!

iluvmysephia1 · June 2009

this little Baskerville.

Kia No.3

Today I found out the No.3 will come with a standard 6-speed manual tranny. This little subcompact would be a good one to make a return to the manual transmission with. I'd get the colors pictured on this No.3, too.

There's only one small problem, carnuts. The No.3's not coming to the U.S.

ateixeira · June 2009

It's hard to tell the scale...is that Yaris sized, or smaller?

Sure beats the Korean-made Aveo5.

plekto · June 2009

Its Yaris sized. Has a TDI engine in it, which is why it won't be for sale in the U.S.

It should get 46mpg or so, converting a similar sized TDI engine in another KIA/Hyundai in the U.K., to U.S. gallons.

stever · July 2009

Crash Test Video: Tata Nano (Straightline)

Doesn't look too bad, all things considered.

ateixeira · July 2009

Seemed to do well IMHO also. I'd like to see more data and a better camera angle while we're asking for more.

aladdinsane · July 2009

Howdy all...
According to the September issue of Motor Trend magazine the 2010 Yaris will gain traction/electronic stability control as standard equipment. This is great, if it's true. I see nothing about this "gain" anywhere online with what little research I've done. Can anyone in the know out there confirm this? At times I doubt MT is really on the beam, so to speak. I do know that upper level versions of Nissan's '10 Versa and Sentra get stab/esc. I'm surprised Toyota didn't include these safety features in the first place with the Yaris. :confuse:
Please inform. I'd really appreciate it.
Many thanx...
Peace!<-AladdinSane<- :shades:

andre1969 · July 2009

Wow, that Nano sure showed those styrofoam blocks and that home-made housetrailer front porch who's boss! :shades:

My biggest concern about something like that would not be so much how it does when hitting something, but how it does when it GETS hit. Running a Yaris at 40 mph into the rear-end of a stopped Suburban does NOT yield the same result as doing it the other way around.

nippononly · July 2009

Toyota hasn't been a big believer in lots of standard safety equipment until very recently. So it wasn't a big surprise that the first Yarises in '06 had none at all.

Standard ESC is going to be mandated in a very short time (2 years) anyway, so Toyota loses little by making it standard earlier, and gains the nice PR of it.

For '09 the Yaris got standard ABS and 6 airbags, so with the standard ESC for '10 it will be properly equipped for all the safety shoppers. Problem is it is still built in Japan and with the exchange rate at 95 yen to the dollar, we probably won't see too many in the States.

It would be nice to see Honda offer a proper subcompact again - the Fit is on the large side for that segment. I hope the CRZ is still in the works. And bring on the Polo, Fiesta, and Fiat 500! :-)

ateixeira · July 2009

Perhaps, but remember at $2500 the Nano's competition is a nice pair of New Balance running shoes.

Of course the sneakers would go right under the Suburban and escape unscathed.

We should at least stick to the same price class, and look at how it fares compared to an Aveo or Versa, the two closest priced cars it would compete with.

tifighter · August 2009

Not only reported by motor trend. Click here

nippononly · August 2009

Last I looked, the exchange rate was at 95 yen to the dollar. With the dollar so weak (and Yaris production located in Japan), I wonder how many 2010 Yarises Toyota will import this year?

tifighter · August 2009

The Yaris is a world car; the US market just doesn't buy enough of these to justify US production, yet buys enough to annoy rival Honda. So Japan production it is. Interesting quote from a Car and Driver test (Click here) says "the [Yaris] has been at or near the top of the segment in sales since its debut."

Hmm...maybe Toyota can take over that Goldwing production line Honda just closed down :P

plekto · August 2009

A turd with traction control is still a turd.

nippononly · August 2009

That's a 40 mpg turd, for roughly 60% of the price of Honda's 40 mpg (Insight) turd. Not a bad thing, gas has just gone back above $3/gallon again in my area......

I would still love to see Honda take the competition more seriously with the Fit.

bpizzuti · August 2009

Honda doesn't take anyone seriously. That's why they charge so much for their cars.

So far, they can get away with it because most of the competition don't take themselves seriously. Toyota doesn't help by overpricing their cars either, but people are willing to pay it, it seems, even for the Yaris and Fit.

Besides, NO ONE takes GM and the Aveo/Cobalt seriously...I don't even think GM does yet. They've always had trouble taking that segment seriously, and while the Cruze might have fixed that a bit, it's been postponed indefinitely. While Focus, Elantra and Sentra (not even mentioning Civic and Corolla) walk all over the Cobalt. Aveo actually does a bit better competition wise than Cobalt (Doesn't stand up too bad with Accent and Versa, and tends to rate better than Yaris) does but it's still not there yet, and Fiesta is going to rip it to shreds next year.

stever · August 2009

So far, they can get away with it

Sales could be rosier for Honda though.

"Although almost all of American Honda Motor Co. Inc.'s models made buyers eligible for cash-for-clunkers rebates, Honda still couldn't pull out of its recent sales doldrums, recording July sales down 17.3 percent compared with last year."

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What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?

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