Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

Midsize Pickup Comparo

1910111315

Comments

  • poncho167poncho167 Member Posts: 1,178
    "The Colorado is abysmal in quality and finish."

    Says who? I am aware that they have had some reliability issues with some 2004/2005 models regarding valve springs and premature tire failure, but I am not familiar with quality and finish. I have seen and driven several of these trucks and they are a very good truck. The Colorado will be redone for 2009 from what I hear, and for those finding the front end still too weird, me included, the new one will change peoples minds real fast. It will have 4,6, and 8 cylinder engines. They current Colorado/Canyon may not be best in class, but they are a good light duty truck.

    The Honda Ridgeline is nothing more than an SUV. The pre-production design of the Ridgeline is rumored to have come from the successful Chevy Avalanche, and the similarities can be seen by putting the pictures side-by-side. Basically the same vehicle but in a smaller size. Will Honda every get a true pickup truck your guess is as good as mine.
  • driver56driver56 Member Posts: 408
    CR and Lemon-Aid have been my "Bibles" for many years. I've picked up a number of autos on their recommendations. That said, there have been discrepancies and contradictions when comparing the two. I consider CR and L-A legitimate, but take them with a grain of salt. I read everything I can, in hard copy, through the internet, or I chat with owners. I try to take it all in before a decision is made.
    Regarding CR, I focus more on their long term tests than I do on their reliability surveys, of which as a subscriber, I have played a part. There is room for human error. One has to jog the memory when asked questions, or have the past year work invoices in front of them to be correct. Our memories are selective, and I have yet to drag up my invoices. In other words, it is a fairly casual process. We, as human beings, like to believe just what we want. We like to think we make good decisions, good choices, and want to project that. We like to talk about the wins, not so much the losses. But we're capable of good and bad mouthing.
    Also, I have not yet been able to match my experiences of my vehicles with that of the survey stats. That is my personal experience. I've owned 7 vehicles in my life, they have all been decent. American Motors, Ford, Honda, Mazda, Volvo, Toyota, Nissan ( New). I maintained them equally, they all offered me good service. Of the past six, none stood out.

    You do make a good point.
  • driver56driver56 Member Posts: 408
    No such thing as best really. I bought an 07 Frontier because, for me, I felt it offered the most bang for my hard earned dollar. I believe that still. The Tacoma was a consideration, the Dakota wouldn't have fit into my garage, the G.M. products I was disappointed in because of their choice of engine. I think they should have up-sized slightly and stuck with the 6. The Honda? Too wide, poor visibility rearward, too expensive here in Canada. Would have frustrated me off-road. Rides nice, handles well on pavement. Odd looking initially, but could grow on you. The Honda may suit more people over all.
  • jfritschjfritsch Member Posts: 958
    The Colorado is abysmal in quality and finish. The 5 cylinder engine rounds out the list.

    One is down to the Tacoma, Frontier and Ridgeline for something in the mid size segment. Possibly the Dakota if you need to tow but then you can get better deals and quality in the Full size Chevs/Fords than the Dakota.

    If you want quality in GM you have to go with the Silverado/Sierra full size as they really screwed the pooch in the mid size segment.

    --jjf

    "The Colorado is abysmal in quality and finish."

    Says who? I am aware that they have had some reliability issues with some 2004/2005 models regarding valve springs and premature tire failure, but I am not familiar with quality and finish. I have seen and driven several of these trucks and they are a very good truck. The Colorado will be redone for 2009 from what I hear, and for those finding the front end still too weird, me included, the new one will change peoples minds real fast. It will have 4,6, and 8 cylinder engines. They current Colorado/Canyon may not be best in class, but they are a good light duty truck.

    The Honda Ridgeline is nothing more than an SUV. The pre-production design of the Ridgeline is rumored to have come from the successful Chevy Avalanche, and the similarities can be seen by putting the pictures side-by-side. Basically the same vehicle but in a smaller size. Will Honda every get a true pickup truck your guess is as good as mine.
  • gdog6gdog6 Member Posts: 17
    I cant wait for the 2008 Dakota with 290hp and 350ft-lb :)
    the only thing bad about the Dakota is its low quality interior :( .
  • driver56driver56 Member Posts: 408
    I read somewhere that the interior was improved. No?
  • gdog6gdog6 Member Posts: 17
    I hope so!

    Dr Z saved money with the cheap interior so he could get him
    a leather jacket :P

    Just one more reason he Stinks as a CEO :shades:
  • kipkkipk Member Posts: 1,576
    "The Honda Ridgeline is nothing more than an SUV".

    Not uncommon for a line of trucks and SUVs to share chassis, drive trains and such. Sometimes the basic difference is whether or not the bed is open, or if it is covered and has some seats and carpet in place.

    While there are some differences in spring rates, interior tweaks and such, the chassis and drive trains share a lot more than we know.

    Same with the Ridgeline and Pilot. Honda is no different than the other mfg in this respect. However, the components under a Ridgeline such as the separate frame, rear 4WD drive components, suspension and such are different from the Pilot. The actual floor pan is probably very similar. Just like the other mfg.

    As the Ridgeline is front wheel drive, I certainly do not believe the Ridgeline drive train is as strong as a Tacoma or Frontier. I do believe it is stronger than a Pilot. The Ridgeline is after a different market, and does it very well. :)

    Personally, if I am going to do serious hauling, I'm going to go full size and V8!

    Kip
  • poncho167poncho167 Member Posts: 1,178
    My point was the Ridgeline is being marketed as a pickup truck when it is not. A pickup truck has a separate cab and seperate bed. The Ridgeline, Avalanche, Cadillac version, are all SUV's.
  • driver56driver56 Member Posts: 408
    A common definition of a pickup is : a vehicle with an open rear cargo area for picking up stuff.
    I suppose we could call the Ridgeline a Sport Utility Pickup. A SUP.
  • kipkkipk Member Posts: 1,576
    "My point was the Ridgeline is being marketed as a pickup truck when it is not. A pickup truck has a separate cab and separate bed."

    Why do you think the cab and bed have to be separate?

    Edmunds says: "A Truck is a vehicle with two or four doors and an exposed cargo box."

    If I take the bed off my pickup, is it still a pickup?
    If I cover the cargo box, is it still a pickup? :)

    Kip
  • jfritschjfritsch Member Posts: 958
    No way. A pickup has to have a cab bolted onto the frame and a separate bed bolted 1/2" behind it. And a separation line clearly visible between the cab and the bed. Thats the way its gotta be. ;)

    --jjf

    My point was the Ridgeline is being marketed as a pickup truck when it is not. A pickup truck has a separate cab and separate bed."

    Why do you think the cab and bed have to be separate?

    Edmunds says: "A Truck is a vehicle with two or four doors and an exposed cargo box."

    If I take the bed off my pickup, is it still a pickup?
    If I cover the cargo box, is it still a pickup?

    Kip
  • asaasa Member Posts: 359


    Toyota's 22R ran in dozens of models for many years and it too was a phenominal engine, having been carburated, injected and even factory turboed. My '86 Toyota truck had the turbo 22R and for its day, it was a blast. It had a whopping 135 turbocharged horses. Mine ran great to near 235,000 Miles when I sold it.
  • driver56driver56 Member Posts: 408
    Their sixes aren't half bad neither. BULLET PROOF.
  • kipkkipk Member Posts: 1,576
    "No way. A pickup has to have a cab bolted onto the frame and a separate bed bolted 1/2" behind it. And a separation line clearly visible between the cab and the bed. Thats the way its gotta be. ;) "

    Thanks for clearing that up! I must have been having a senior moment? :blush:

    Reminds me: Many moons ago, Saab had a commercial showing the advantages of front wheel drive. They drove it UP a ski slope. Seems they showed how Volvo's RWD didn't get very far. Though there were other FWD vehicles on the road, they were still rare.

    Those of us in the "KNOW" realized the FWD thing was a passing fad and would never last or become popular. :shades:

    Kip
  • kipkkipk Member Posts: 1,576
    My son had a Tacoma V6, 4wd that he "ragged" on pretty hard. He did at least change the oil on a regular basis. Sold that truck with over 200K miles and the engine was still running fine and not using oil.

    For some reason the Toyota small V8 doesn't seem to be much of a performance advantage over the V6, although it seems to be reliable. Never understood that!

    The new 5.7L appears to be a winner.
    I think the 5.7 in a Tacoma would be interesting. :)

    Kip
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I think I'll stick to this definition.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickup_truck

    Bob
  • kipkkipk Member Posts: 1,576
    Here is that definition:

    "A pickup truck or pick-up is a light motor vehicle with an open-top rear cargo area.

    In North America, the word pickup generally refers to a small or medium sized truck, rather than vehicles based on passenger cars. This light commercial vehicle features: a separate cabin and rear load area or compartment (separate cargo bed).
    Two North American vehicles, the Chevrolet El Camino and Ford Ranchero were passenger car-based vehicles with integrated cargo bed, but were not generally referred to as pickup trucks, because they were actually derived from station wagons."


    Notice they didn't mention the Ridgeline? This could have been written a L-O-N-G time ago, or they have no problem with the Ridgeline Pickup!! :)

    "A pickup truck or pick-up is a light motor vehicle with an open-top rear cargo area."

    In the case of the Ranchero and El Camino, virtually nothing about them was changed from a passenger car, other than the rear half of the top was gone. The Ridgeline is another story altogether. Separate frame as with most other pickups, stronger suspension, stronger rear drive and so on!

    "This light commercial vehicle features: a separate cabin and rear load area or compartment (separate cargo bed)".

    Their definition doesn't suggest the separation needs to be a gap. Or that the bed can be unbolted and removed separate from the cab. With a Pilot, the cargo area and passenger area are under one roof, and actually can/do interchange. With the Ridgeline, the two do not share the same space. Passengers are inside the cabin and cargo is carried in the separate open bed that is in no way interlaced with the inside of the cabin. Chances are good the Pilot bed is rated to carry the same +/- load as any other Midsize pickup. This was not true with the El Camino and Ranchero.

    The Avalanche is another story as the two are expected to inter wind according to the whims of the owner.

    Kip
  • kreuzerkreuzer Member Posts: 131
    does anyone know if Honda will be coming out with a smaller pickup truck - - smaller as in the Ridgeline? I can't believe they haven't tried it already since they build quality products and could give both domestic and foreign a run for their money. Any comments or news?
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I wouldn't imagine there would be a market for a smaller truck than the Ridgeline. The Ridgeline competes with the current "mid-size" trucks, which are the smallest ones in the market (Tacoma, Frontier, Colorado, etc...)
  • driver56driver56 Member Posts: 408
    I'd like to see the Ford Ranger/Mazda B-Series continue on as true compacts. Isn't the Ranger still selling well? There is supposedly a redesign in the works for the 2010 model year, Mazda may drop their truck altogether. Personally, these small trucks have always had some appeal, but I always felt a little cramped inside them. I am glad I held off for a mid-sized.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I think the reason the 1995 I mean 2007 Ranger is still selling well is due to fleets only. It is not very competitive with the midsizers.

    I think the 3.0L V6 has about the same horsepower as my grandfather's 1999 Frontier 4-cylinder (143 hp sounds right?).

    C'mon Ford, don't let the Ranger go the way of the (once class-topping) Windstar or Focus!
  • kipkkipk Member Posts: 1,576
    They certainly are the last of the breed. At least on this side of the pond.

    But do they really offer anything that the Toy or Fronty don't?

    Kip
  • driver56driver56 Member Posts: 408
    Only compactness and a lower price. My nephew's 03 B-Series 3 litre V-6 travels the same distance on a gallon as does my 07 Frontier 4 litre V-6. How's that for engineering.
    That said, I'd still like to see these true compact trucks hang in there. They certainly are long in the tooth though.

    Cheers!
  • climrclimr Member Posts: 4
    Does anyone have any ideas on what some good options are for cars/trucks that are sleepable for 2 adults. I'm looking at pickups, mostly the Tacoma, but was curious if anyone has any experience sleeping in different types of vehicles? I would like to find something smaller than the Tacoma maybe even a hatchback/small SUV.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Check out the seating configurations of the Honda Fit hatchback by clicking here. It has several different modes you can set the seats in, including for sleeping, and sitting up with your legs stretched out. Lots of cargo room too, and a price of about $15,000 with in-town economy in the 30s.
  • kipkkipk Member Posts: 1,576
    I believe the Honda Element uses "Sleeping Options" as one of their sales tools. The back seats lay flat and the front seats lay flat and join the rear ones to form two single beds! Haven't tried it though. :)
  • asaasa Member Posts: 359
    You probably know about bed tents, but most of the truck makers offer them. You'd get a bit more sleeping room than inside the truck, but would have to offload what might be in your bed each night.
  • poncho167poncho167 Member Posts: 1,178
    Another option is to find a used Pontiac Aztec SUV. Yes, we already know most people don't find the Aztec very attractive, ugly, but the vehicle has an above average ride, descent mileage, plenty of room including the optional tent to attach to the back, and radio controls from the back interior of the vehicle as well. The vehicle also has that removable center consol between the seats that doubles as a cooler. This vehicle can be had for cheap.
  • poncho167poncho167 Member Posts: 1,178
    Supposedly there will be a 5.3 L option next year similar to the current Hummer H3.
  • donn2390donn2390 Member Posts: 23
    I have been hearing that 5.3 rumor for over a year. First time I heard it was for this year.
    I would love to hear confirmation on that. I have been searching the web trying to find out anything I can about the 2008.
    I was going to buy an '07, but it's so close to the 8's coming out, I am going to wait.
    I haven't heard of any problems with the '07 heads, so I assume that problem is history. :)
  • jfritschjfritsch Member Posts: 958
    How in the world would they put a v8 into a chassis that they had to compromise and put a 5 cylinder in as it is? No other mid size (tacoma, frontier, possilbly ridgeline) has anything said about a v8 and they have bigger dimensions and possibly just barely the space for a small one.
    The Dakota is the only one with a v8 and it is the biggest of the bunch. Keep looking for info on this rumor for the Colorado as you won't find any. Its not gonna happen.

    This is a compromsied vehicle with a small engine, poor towing and with cheap amenities and expensive too. Get a Frontier, Tacoma, Ridgeline, or if you need GM, or a v8 a Silverado -- one of the best in the fullsize class. (you can work 7-8k off msrp deals now with this truck of the year, 4k off the Tacoma and Frontier and about 6k off the Ridgeline) You may be able to work 8-10k off a Dakota. The dodge Ram 1500 4x4 crew is advertised for 12000 off list frequently, although a large full size.

    Before you go Colorado please do yourself a favor and drive the alternatives. You will be happy you did.

    --jjf

    I have been hearing that 5.3 rumor for over a year. First time I heard it was for this year.
    I would love to hear confirmation on that. I have been searching the web trying to find out anything I can about the 2008.
    I was going to buy an '07, but it's so close to the 8's coming out, I am going to wait.
    I haven't heard of any problems with the '07 heads, so I assume that problem is history.
  • KCRamKCRam Member Posts: 3,516
    Same way they got the 5.3 in the Impala. It's not about the power, it's the size. The 5.3 is only 4 cylinders "long" as opposed to the I-5 which takes up more space lengthwise. This is why Colorado/Canyon critics have wondered for years why GM didn't use the 4.3 V6.

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    This is why Colorado/Canyon critics have wondered for years why GM didn't use the 4.3 V6.


    Did we ever get an answer on that one? :)
  • KCRamKCRam Member Posts: 3,516
    I've heard because it's based on the old 350 (4.3 just has 2 cyls cut off) and they'd prefer to use a newer engine design. I'd think it would be a better stopgap than the I-5 until they get a new truck V-6 in production.

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Ah. Makes sense...sort of. They seemilngly alienated a few die-hard truck guys who wanted some real torque from a traditional engine.

    I really don't know, is there a new truck V6 coming anytime soon? Or is the 3.6 GM's only real "V6" they've got now outside of the old 3.5/3.9 pushrods cam-in-block designs?(The 2.8L V6 found in the Saab doesn't count to me, 210 hp is now in 4-cylinder's territory).

    --TheGrad
  • donn2390donn2390 Member Posts: 23
    GM invested far too much money in the new technology of the I-5 to go backwards to the 4.3 V6.
    The I-5 is tomorrow, so don't hold your breath on getting a V6, which has far less HP.
    The V8 is a possibility because it uses the same frame as the Hummer which has the V8. Seems to fit fine in there..!
    Before I would ever consider buying foreign, I will continue to drive my '91 S-10 with 160 K on it.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    On a random side note, I just got hit by an older S-10 (the really boxy years) that had racing stripes on it. The pictures of my wrecked car are on my carspace. You didn't by chance hit me yesterday did ya? :)

    Just messin with ya. :)
  • kipkkipk Member Posts: 1,576
    Prices you are quoting seem a bit too good to be true! :)

    >"Get a Frontier, Tacoma, Ridgeline, or if you need GM, or a v8 a Silverado -- one of the best in the fullsize class. (you can work 7-8k off msrp deals now with this truck of the year, 4k off the Tacoma and Frontier and about 6k off the Ridgeline) You may be able to work 8-10k off a Dakota. ,"

    These prices are way below dealer cost and dealer holdback.

    Please explain how you do it. A friend is looking to buy a New Silverado right now !

    Thanks,

    Kip
  • jfritschjfritsch Member Posts: 958
    Check out my message 14394 in the Honda Accord prices paid section. All ya need to know. Email 10-30 dealers for quotes end of the month. All the full size pickups -Tundra, f series Silverado wholesale about 10k off MSRP year one. They will not move without sizeable incentives. Obviously for a good deal you want a considerable amount off.

    You want about 7-8k+ off a 30+ k Silverado for a good deal and more for the Dodges. Silverado has had a reprieve from the norm the last few months for the Truck of the year headline but economics are returning to normal. Newly introduced Tundra too.

    If your friend needs a full size tell him to investigate the Dodge 1500 4x4 crew or even mega crew. Its advertised frequently for 12k off MSRP a 5.7 hemi 33+k truck. Doing the above may produce an even bigger discount from the right dealer towards end of this month or next.

    Please don't take invoice -holdback- advertised rebates/dealer incentives and assume you know dealer cost. Invoice has been more a nominal figure for more than 15 years. Unadvertised dealer cash and such for numerous models and particularly for the 20 mpg segment the last 3 years has been very substantial.

    Buying a Dodge Durango for dealer "cost" with advertised rebates,holdback and such for a 7500 discount from MSRP is very painful. Its advertised frequently for 10k+ off. It wholesales 14000+ off MSRP year one. This is one of the more extreme examples for illustration of hidden dealer cash.

    August will probably be a shooting gallery again with major discounts on Honda Pilot (7500+ off 6000 off now) etc. If your friend is flexible on colors and such waiting a month or two getting some competitive bids end of month may produce some really great deals. $4000 off a 26000+ Frontier or Tacoma crew, $5000 off the 4runner is no big whoop now.

    In general taking the wholesale price of a year old used vehicle like the one you're looking for and adding 15-20% is a useful target price for a new vehicle. Obviously you're shooting for the lower or better towards end of the model year. This holds for 95% of production vehicles. It also illustrates buying a year old used car anymore isn't usually a great idea.

    If you want extended warranties try to keep it around $700 or so for a 7year/100k bumper to bumper factory warranty for the Ford or Chev (they already have sizeable warranties) and $1000 or so for the Dodge (funny everyone else is extending their standard powertrain warranties and Dodge dropped their 7/70 last year).

    Happy Hunting
    --jjf

    Prices you are quoting seem a bit too good to be true!

    "Get a Frontier, Tacoma, Ridgeline, or if you need GM, or a v8 a Silverado -- one of the best in the fullsize class. (you can work 7-8k off msrp deals now with this truck of the year, 4k off the Tacoma and Frontier and about 6k off the Ridgeline) You may be able to work 8-10k off a Dakota. ,"

    These prices are way below dealer cost and dealer holdback.

    Please explain how you do it. A friend is looking to buy a New Silverado right now !

    Thanks,

    Kip
  • kipkkipk Member Posts: 1,576
    This guy has patience. Sent him a copy of your response.

    Thanks,
    Kip
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Yes, a V8 is coming in the Colorado, but not for 2008. I've gotten that from a source I trust.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Makes sense since the H3 will get a V8 IIRC.

    -mike
  • poncho167poncho167 Member Posts: 1,178
    I saw it on autob--g a couple weeks ago. Left out a couple letters because of the Edmunds rules. Let me know if you can't figure it out.
  • donn2390donn2390 Member Posts: 23
    I found the site, and I found the full size Chevy's, but can't find Colorado. The site is new to me, I couldn't find an esy way to look other than go page by page... I'll keep trying to figure it out. Thanks for the tip....
  • jfritschjfritsch Member Posts: 958
    I still don't know how they would shoehorn a V8 into a Colorado when the 5 cylinder is the big one now. Any redesign enough to put a V8 in this machine would put you quickly into Silverado territory which would seem counterproductive.

    Given the Tacoma and Frontier are bigger and a V8 is probably impractical for them are you sure the rumors arent for a V6 (wowsers) for the Colorado?

    --jjf
  • donn2390donn2390 Member Posts: 23
    The rumors I heard were for the 5.3 V8. The Hummer has that engine and Hummer uses the same frame the Colorado does, so it can't be to tought to make it fit with the Colorado body.
    I really don't need anymore than the I-5 provides, but would be interested in looking at the V-8, were it to be ooffered, before making a decision. It the price were right, and the mileage were tempting, I might go for an "8".. ! ;)
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    the same plant in Louisiana.
  • jfritschjfritsch Member Posts: 958
    I'm speaking totally from ignorance of anything you might have read but are you sure the Hummer H3 isn't based on Surburban or Chevy Silverado frame? I find it hard to believe a 6000 lb Hummer is based on the smallest of the Mid-size Colorado frame. I don't think the Dakota frame (largest mid size) could do it.

    --jjf

    The rumors I heard were for the 5.3 V8. The Hummer has that engine and Hummer uses the same frame the Colorado does, so it can't be to tought to make it fit with the Colorado body.
    I really don't need anymore than the I-5 provides, but would be interested in looking at the V-8, were it to be ooffered, before making a decision. It the price were right, and the mileage were tempting, I might go for an "8".. !
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    I'm speaking totally from ignorance of anything

    It is correct that the H3 is derived from the Canyon/Colorado.
    It is correct that the Colorado will offer a V8 since the engineering is already completed for the H3.
This discussion has been closed.