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Comments
http://www.javelinamx.com/Eagleweb/main.htm
Glad to hear your are thrifty with your money, no need for anybody to buy new cars all the time. Clearly the Eagle is a winner, especially judging by the financial success AMC has enjoyed.
ITS AN EAGLE, LIKELY THE WORST EXAMPLE OF A DOMESTIC CAR EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11 :P
I think you hit it right on. I have always had fun in Wranglers, but it does not work as a daily driver for me. If I were in the market for a purely fun 3rd car the Wrangler would fit the bill. However for me I need something I can take the boy and dog to the fishing hole on the weekends and easily drive to work during the week. Wish the FJ had a sunroof though.
The reason I think for the down hill slant here is some posters cofuse their opinions with facts.
Take a history lesson before you open your exhaust pipe.
Studebaker and Pakard went broke - but I doubt if you have ever heard of those companies.
AMC did not go broke; they amalgamated with Chrysler. And with them they brought the Jeep to which Chrysler owes much of its sales success of the past 19 years. The Jeep division of AMC, which pretty much ran the entire company in the 80's, was put in charge of Chrysler’s truck division. Many AMC engineers also apparently had significant influence over V8 engine development too, particularly regarding cylinder heads. Chrysler also owes much of the success of the completely new Dodge truck design changes which took place in the early '90s to AMC engineers.
Some more trivia about AMC: They owned AM General – it was their military contract division which they inherited when they purchased Kaiser Jeep Corporation in 1970. AMC actually designed the Hummer H1 before they sold AM General – hence the H1’s Jeep-like looks and the 7 slot grille. GMC took the ball further in refinements and of course developed the H2 and 3 on their own.
And about the mileage on my Eagle, I'm not joking with you. It gets about 7-8 MPG better on the highway than my brand new Wrangler Rubicon. The EPA rating on the Eagle in 1984 was 31MPG and that's not an OPINION.
Either way lets return to some earlier posts/topic. People keep referring to the new FJ as a soft roader, yet an FJ was able to cover the Rubicon trail with nothing more that upgraded tires. Does that make the Rubicon a "soft road"? Are a new set of tires that amazing? Or (like it or not) is the FJ a pretty good off roader? Clearly the two vehicles are very different, yet each is able to deliver some amazing off road performance. The continued references to "light duty" and "soft roader", or "Crummy Road Vehicle" do nothing to create conversation - They simply encourage people to view you as an over opinionated troll. :P
I can drag my Sub Zero refrigerator over the Rubicon Trail, that doesn't make it a great off road vehicle.
Seriously, though, I think the FJ is probably very capable offroad. And about the Jeep as a daily driver: if I had to drive a lot of hwy miles I don't think I'd want my Rubi as a daily driver, but thankfully, most of my driving is on city streets so for me it works great as a daily driver, and man, it is a blast to drive. So, like you say, it all depends on ones needs. I can tell you that I certainly didn't need all the capability the Rubicon provides offroad. A Wrangler Sahara would have fit my needs just as well and saved me a couple of grand, but it's nice knowing I have the capability of the Rubicon and I don't have to wonder should I have gotten it.
My coworkers and I saw an FJ in the parking lot the other day, and we all thought it horribly ugly. I think that's the kind of impact it will have, love it/hate it. Toyota, usually so boring in styling, really went out on a limb with this one. Of course, I never thought Honda would sell many of those horrible sqaure boxes, but they've done it.
Thanks, glad you liked the automotive history lesson. Tomorrow we'll cover Rolls Royce and Bently - kidding.
Yeah I believe these EPA ratings on the Eagle are done for the 4.2L I6. The automatic has a lock up converter that results in pretty much the same thing as the manual trans for highway mileage. Of course you NEVER can achieve quite same mileage in real life as the EPA lab conditions. I get about 26MPG on the highway in real life. Most people experience about 5 MPG lower than the EPA numbers in real life.
The one of the reason's the '84 Eagle wagon can get that kind of mileage is because it can be operated in 2WD or AWD with the flip of a lever on the dash. If you run in AWD my experience is that you can subtract about 3 MPG from the 2WD mileage. At that point it comes pretty close to the MPG the Subaru Out Back gets. However it still out paces the CR-V. (I live in Canada so I have to convert the numbers for US gallons – The US gallon is about 83% of the Canadian gallon. In Canadian gallons I get about 30-31MPG on the highway.)
One of the other reasons is that in '82 AMC went to a great lengths to make the intake manifold pre-heats the air/fuel mixture promoting better thermal efficiency and better atomization of the fuel. It was also the first year they had a computer feed back controlled carb with an O2 sensor.
I had an 1980 Eagle wagon before which was always locked in AWD and did not have the 'new' type of intake. It got about 5-6 MPG less than my current Eagle.
I agree dog, we should get back on the FJ/Wrangler topic.
Your "facts" are being exposed for what they are... your opinions. And wrong as they've been, at least you are emphatic about them. (remember the "toyota doesn't make solid front axle fact") ooops, they produce more than jeep.
I've been all through Russia and Eastern Europe... the air is horrible due to the lack of emissions controls.
Eagle is dead. Why don't we create an Edsel vs. FJ topic?
Bye.
Things that make you go Hmmmmmmm.....
The point I'm making is that both vehicles began life with the same purpose. Small, simple, light, low-horsepower (similar to a tractor), and therefore reliable and capable. As comfort and safety came into the equation, both evolved to meet these new consumer demands. The FJ evolved into more of a closed vehicle than the CJ's (in general) but both stayed remarkably close in size and specification. Six-cylinder engines, diesels, and pickup versions of both were tried.
Fast-forward to now.
Off-Road magazines' front-page editorial this month makes the statement that the new JK Rubicon will be the most capable factory 4x4 ever. That's a big statement to make.
Jeep has decided to add even more capability to the Wrangler, steering more Wrangler buyers like Michael, who do NOT use it for off-highway travel, towards vehicles that are a better match for their primary uses. And, there will be a 2WD version of the four-door JK Unlimited for this purpose.
Toyota obviously has the experience and capability to make vehicles for off-highway travel. This time, they chose a new direction. One also followed by most other auto-manufacturers.
Why did Toyota decide to make a more "comfortable" vehicle instead? I propose that it looked at the market for primarily trail use trucks, and could not justify the costs of a stand-alone off-highway vehicle. You may want to rail at soccer moms, but if I'm Toyota and soccer moms buy $35k vehicles from me all day long, then they're my best new friends. It's all about the sales. I bet we'll never know how many times a closed-top, IFS, sound-proofed Wrangler has been considered for production.
I have been in an FJ, (haven't driven it), but also parked my Unlimited next to it, and the thing is HUGE in comparison. It's a totally different direction. Should these vehicles even be directly compared at all? Have they evolved in separate ways far enough that they shouldn't be cross-shopped anymore?
Great post and I do think you hit the nail on the head. FJ was designed to fit into a niche. Off-roaders who want more comfort and non-off roaders who want something less creampuff than a Highlander/Escape type of vehicle. I'm not a huge FJ Cruiser fan, actually just purchased a 67 FJ40... in transit now. I would have been in the market for the Cruiser, but it came out a bit too plastic for my tastes. Still believe it's OK off-road based on what I'm hearing, but didn't really meet my expectations overall.
Still wish they had just imported one of their LC versions sold overseas.
You also bring up a good point about should we even be comparing these vehicles. Maybe not. You didn't see Wrangler/Xterra comparisons I don't think. The reason for the natural comparison, and interest in it, is that Toyota and Jeep have a history of competing for off-road supremacy... and have extremely loyal fans... evidenced by what is said on this board at times (by me as well). It's an interesting (at times) board because you see that loyalty at its strongest. Doubt there are many who own a jeep and an FJ.
Let's see if this works
<img src="http://i3.tinypic.com/15hoo5i.jpg[/IMG]
That's the baby. I haven't seen it yet, but sounds like it's going to be nice. I'll be getting in about two weeks and will let you know if it's all I'm hoping it will be.
I've done some mods since I snapped this one at work in the parking lot, but you get the idea.
Keats, great choice of color on that Rubi!
I'm going to hook up with the local LC club and do some wheeling with them. I think they have a couple of FJC's in the group, mostly FJ40's though. Hoping I can see some FJC's in action on our rides. I'm sure I'll see the Rubi in action too... hope I can hold my own!
I'll let you know if it lives up to how well it looks in the picture.
However Jeep has reserved the Wrangler for a niche market. A very critical market. A market of people who scoff at power windows, hate IFS never mind IRS. They despise complication but love the KISS principal. Sure, they like more capability, but they want to see it done in a way that is simple. Being that this market is only so big, and that Jeep has focused on it for so many years, I have the feeling that Toyota took the attitude of – Let Jeep have it: there isn’t room for two players.
Nice FJ! I like it. I think you will be a lot happier with your classic (in the long run) than you would be with a FJC. Sure new is always nice, but in my books I’ll take quality rebuild ‘old’ every time! Nice rig.
My Rubi is almost the same as keats’ machine, color and all. The three of them would look great together!
What engine is in your '67 FJ? Stock or has it been retrofitted?
It is a nice machine. I'm sure you will enjoy many days on the trails with the doors off and THE TOP DOWN!
It's a rebuilt stock F Engine.
I am looking forward to climbing something :> Doors and top will be off within hours of getting it. Kind of the point if you ask me.
I submit this and the 240Z (preferrably painted copper) to anyone who still says Japanese cars don't have soul. Before I get too old to work a clutch, I need to own one of each.
If you look at this thing, every single exposed nut and bolt has a purpose. Every bit of metal outside of the Toyota badge has a point. It isn't styled any more than a crescent wrench. It looks like it does because of what it was meant to do. That's why they looked like CJ's.
And, I kind of like it with the top on, but I'm weird.
Good point. I doubt Toyota will ever mass-produce another SFA truck again. I believe the FJ80 was the last. I wonder what other versions toyota will spin off in the future though. Moab TRD version? Soft top? Maybe those will make a few potential Rubi buyers think twice?
I'm hoping they get it right and put a solid axle on a future version, but I'm not holding my breath.
I'm definitely with you on the 240z... someday!
One toy at a time.
:shades:
Jeeps bring the fun back to cars for me. I trapped myself in economy cars and "gasp" a minivan for a long time. I thought back to my 89 Wrangler in college, and realized it was the most fun I'd had on wheels. I simply don't have the desire anymore to drag race or blow up a car at way too fast speeds. I may screw up on a trail, but as long as you're belted in it's not such a big deal. And, I can take my kid along without fear. Notice that the new FJ's were all over the Easter Jeep Safari, and Toyota is paying people to run them on trails. They want that group of people back in their fold that has fun with their cars and trucks. I think they'll succeed. Now Ford needs to do the Bronco, and I'm not just saying that because I live within a couple miles of the Claycomo truck plant!
Toyota is paying their customers to take their FJC's off road?????? WOW! They have to pay them? That's up there with paying someone to be your friend.
the people they are paying are Toyota employees. They pay those employees to market the product. I think it's a pretty unique and effective marketing tool... get FJ's on the trails, expose them to the 4 wheeling public (jeep public included), and get them behind the wheel. That's not a marketing technique they would do for a vehicle that wasn't off-road capable. Be like taking a minivan to the drag strips to show off their 0 - 60 time. Must be something to the FJ... I'm sure they've put real bumpers on the trail rigs though.
b/t/w, got my fj40 a few days ago... got it muddy yesterday. Should have done this years ago!
I have owned Toyota trucks and I have owned Jeeps. I had very few problems with my Toyota trucks and Jeeps.
I had an 84 Toyota truck (SR5 4X4)that I bought in 1987. It had the straight axle up front.
This truck had to have the starter replaced at around 85, 000 miles.
A u-joint went out on the rear drive line and the drive line fell off at the transmission and the drive line was sheared off the rear differential, (I was going about 65 miles an hour on the highway).
I had to replace the drive line and the rear diferential as a result of this u-joint failure.
The rest of the truck ran great for the entire time that I owned it. I traded it off at around 165,000 miles.
I also owned an 85 Toyota truck. Last year of the straight axles in Toyota trucks. It was a long bed 4X4.
The only problem I had with this truck was a front main seal that I had to replace due to oil leaking copiously from the front of my engine.. Oh yeah, I also had to replace the starter in this truck.
Other than that it was a care free truck.
I owned a 95 Jeep Wrangler. Drove it off road more than I did my Toyotas. I go out into the desert in northeast californica and northwest Nevada.
The only problems I had with the 95 Wrangler in 150,000 miles was a starter at around 120,000 miles. A radiator at around the same time. It was leaking, I'm suprised it lasted as long as it did considering the washboards and bad dirt roads that I drive over all the time.
The Jeep held up as good, or better than my Toyota trucks did.
They were all great vehicles. The reliability of the Wrangler was over all better in my experience. The Wrangler never let me down or left me stranded anywhere.
The first Toyota truck let me down once, and thats it.
I was never left stranded with my 85 Toyota truck.
My wife used to drive a 98 Cherokee that we bought new in 98. It was a fantastic vehicle. Never a problem in over 100,000 miles.
I now own an 06 Rubicon. If it holds up as well as my 95 Wrangler did it will be a great vehicle.
My wife now drives an 01 F-350 4x4. I wish it was holding up as well as her Cherokee did.I wont go into that.
steenh, sounds like you just got a lemmon :lemon: ">. That is not good and I dont blame you for having a grudge against Jeep for the bad expeience you had with one of their vehicles. I have known guys that have had problems with new Toyota's also. Had a freind that bought a new toyota truck and the head gaskets kept blowing for some unknown reason. Never did get fixed. It was under warranty also!!
He will never won another Toyota now. Too bad, they really are great trucks for most guys.
Anyway, you guys keep this thread going. It is quality entertainment for sure. :shades:
No doubt I got a lemon... if they were all as bad as the one I bought, this thread wouldn't exist. Jeep would be out of business. They're not, so they can't all be bad. But, I won't play Jeep Russian Roulette again, and believe me, I wish I could. The Jeep setup is exactly what I want... and was hoping Toyota would build. Had to buy a 40 yr old Toyota to get what I wanted, and I'm pretty certain that my 40 yr old Toyota will hold up better than my new Jeep did.
This is a fun thread... people have strong opinions which makes it interesting to read... and participate in. Sure wish some FJ owners would chime in though. I may not be the best choice to carry the torch for FJC since it's not what I wanted or hoped Toyota would build.
All in fun!
Well I'm just going on what Drew wrote. I don't really know the details about what Toyota did as far as paying 'their customers' to take their FJ's off-road. Drew said it was the public customers, not Toy employees. But it still seems pretty funny. Jeep or Land Rover never had to pay one cent to its customer to off-road their 4x4s and Pontiac never had to pay GTO owners to drag race the car or smoke the tires now and then. But whatever Toyota wants to do I guess. If they did have very experienced Toyota employee drivers showing off the FJ then they would know where not to push the vehicle so that it's short comings would not show up. Things like the limited articulation IFS will never be observed if you choose your terrain right. A muddy trail without big rocks or swells can be used to impress a novice off-road observer.
Glad to hear you got your FJ-40 out! Post a couple of off-road pics for us some time!
Happy Trails
If you hit the FJ Cruiser logo link just to the left of this, and then go to the FJ Dossier link, and then "trail teams" you'll get a sense of the marketing effort. Basically there is a team of Toyota drivers with a bunch of FJ's that are traveling around the country to the various off-road gatherings and showing off the capabilities. I understand that they are giving people the opportunity to drive them themselves as well.
Also a bunch of videos... or Lucasfilms right?
There is one in August in Tennesee that I might try to make... tough schedulewise, but if I get there, I'll fill you in.
Pic's? I will post some but it may be a few weeks. Traveling for the next two weeks. Amazing machine. Need to get out with a group so I can test it a bit more, but first time out, I was very impressed.
It is not just Toyota. All the Japanese motorcycle companies came in and picked riders that were good to ride for them. MotoX was more of an individual sport when I raced in the 1970s. It made it very difficult for the little guy to compete, when you had Honda money racing against you. Two of my friends took the money and had great bikes to race. Honda did that with F1 If you are trying to push a brand get top race drivers to sell it.
No one has recruited me yet to snowboard for them though. :sick:
Sounds like good marketing to me, like Camp Jeep and the dealer courses at Land Rover dealers.
Sorry for jumping off the subject. I am available to run the FJ Cruiser through it's paces if Toyota is looking for experienced drivers. I took one of the first FJ40s on the famous "Tierra del Sol" run in about 1968. This is their 44th year doing that great run. Not sure how it would stack up against the "Rubicon" or Moab runs. It was tough with lots of broken vehicles. Most of the breakage was Broncos and Scouts. If I ever find all my pictures I will scan and post in my carspace albums.