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Honda CR-V, Toyota RAV4 or Subaru Forester?

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Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, my Sienna definitely has torque steer, but it's van so you don't often floor the throttle. I wanted the power to haul heavy loads, not the other type of hauling. :shades:

    I drove from Florida to DC with 6 people and luggage, but all that weight and higher speeds (my dad hit 90mph at one point, whoa) than usual hurt my numbers. I still managed 24mpg.

    My sister drove my dad's Outback and they got slightly better mileage, but they were also carrying less weight (2 people and luggage). I think they got about 27mpg.

    Thing is, the gas tank in the Outback is much smaller (16.9 gal vs. 21), so that's what limited our range.

    How big is the RAV4's tank? I think it's smaller than the Forester and Outback (both 16.9 gal).

    That might limit range. I hate having to stop for gas. One time we were running on empty and had to stop, and ended up seeing gas 30 cents cheaper less than an hour later. If the small gas tank had not forced us to stop, we would have paid far less for gas.

    That may be a reason to go with the I-4.
  • bigdadi118bigdadi118 Member Posts: 1,207
    My wife 07 Rav4 4 cyc is kind of noisy engine in cold start warm-up, and wind noise on highway speed.
  • rengawrengaw Member Posts: 22
    Yes, one of the compaints of the RAV is the 15.9 gallan tank,especially with the V6. I like to see at least 400 miles per tank, it can help when one wants to be selective in searching for a brand or price of fuel.

    I have a Ford F150 which has two tanks and gives me something like 36 gallons. I previously had an F150 with a single 21 gallon tank. Now when you are getting 14 mpg with a 21 gallon tank, it literally seems as if you are stopping at every station. But filling up that 36 gallon tank when fuel was higher than it presently is, would extract $120 from my wallet at a time.
  • WorkingManEsqWorkingManEsq Member Posts: 1
    New to Board:

    I was leaning towards the CR-V, but I like to have a bit more power. The V6 RAV-4 and the Forrester Turbo appear to be competitors.

    In comparing the turbo Forrester and the V6 RAV-4, the main difference appears to be the requirement to use premium fuel in the turbo. Three questions:

    1. Can someone comment on the appropriate octane, and whether one could use 87 or 89 octane?

    2. Has anyone test drove the turbo and the V6? Are they close?

    3. Has anyone considered comparing a Outback V6 with a RAV4 V6?

    Thanks in advance.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Hate to say it (being a diehard Subie fan), but I think the RAV4 V6 has a number of advantages over the Forester turbo. They are:

    • Better gas mileage
    • Higher towing capability (3500 vs 2400)
    • Uses regular gas
    • Oil changes likely 7500 miles vs 3500 miles of the Subie turbo
    • Rav4 has a full-size spare tire. I know this year they're offering a RAV4 without the door-mounted spare, and I believe that model has run-flat tires and no spare, but I'm not sure.
    • The RAV4 has a 5-speed automatic, whereas the Forester still has a 4-speed automatic.

    I do prefer the full-time AWD of the Subie. The new RAV4s have a part-time, on-demand AWD. I also prefer the Forester's styling and interior.

    I've driven both the RAV4 V6 and the Forester turbo, and they're both quick.

    Bob
  • rengawrengaw Member Posts: 22
    If the CRV isn't powerful enough for you, you may want to consider the new 2.5 I4 in the 2009 RAV. Better gas mileage than the CRV and more power. 179 hp as Toyota added an exhaust valve, used new friction cutting technology in the engine, and reworked the transmission. Result over the old 2.4L I4 is 13 more hp and 12.8% increase if fuel economy.

    I was seriously considering the V6 in the RAV but after just redriving both, my wife and I are springing for the I4. The V6 is a hot rod but we find the I4 worked fine for us even in the mountains. Drive them all, see what you think.
  • bigdadi118bigdadi118 Member Posts: 1,207
    My wife 07 RAV4 i4 is slow in picking up speed from ramp into the freeway traffic but cruising is pretty good. Maybe because I drive 08 Pilot 3.5L, thus the difference.
  • rfrfrfrf Member Posts: 31
    Considering Forrester XTL, RAV4 (6cyl), CRV and OB 3.0. Am in the midst of learning vehicles and was comforted by posts here which address many same issues wifey and i (and 2 kids, ages 5 and 9) have with choice.

    All are excellent vehicles and have their various dis/advantages, some thoughts/questions:

    I like the OB 3.0: good AWD system, alth mpg may suffer, but does it really suffer that much considering it is always there as opposed to wonder if it will come on when i would like to have it there and then go off when I exceed 25 mph, like the RAV4 which gets about 3 mpg more on avg.

    I beleive I understand fundamentals of FW 4WD (that the vehicle runs as FWD until it senses slippage at which time power is directed to rear) but that is all I have been able to discern from the brochure or sales staff (who are reluctant to show me a manual), some questions:

    I like the continued high quality and reliability of Toyota and Honda (alth Sub appears to come real close to them both), but re RAV4:
    1. once the front wheels slip, how immediate is the transfer of power to the rear?
    2. If I know in advance that I will want to run in 4WD, can I opt in advance to engage the 4WD?
    3. If I so opt, will the 4WD still auto disengage at 25 mph or does the 4WD lock allow me to run in 4WD above 25 mph anmd or when the front wheels do not sense slippage?
    4. Are the EPA estimates based upon FWD operation of the vehicle and are the estimates affected by use of the 4WD?

    Both Forrester and RAV4 appear to be roomy enough; appears that 2010 OB will address rear seat space and window frame issues (which both bother us), but does anyone know if the changes will amount to a new generation as i am hesitant to buy first year of a new generatn - or sh I be here?

    Thank you in advance for any info/thoughts.
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    You may be able to access some owner's manuals for free by going to the link under "DoMore" on the right side of this page.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The oil change interval for Toyota is 5000 miles, at least for the Sienna it is.

    A light on the dash actually comes on calling for service, and you have to use the odometer to reset it.

    After the issues with sludge on the old 3.0l V6 Toyota got smart and put that reminder front and center.

    Our Forester is 3750 under Schedule A or 7500 under Schedule B, though most people fall under A.

    I like the 5000 interval only because it's easy to recall - 5, 10, 15. On the Forester our 3rd change would be at 11,250 miles, how am I going to remember that?
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Mine is like that on my old Honda. I just take it every 4,000 instead of 3,750. Easier to remember that way.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I guess you could compromise and use a 5000 mile interval, since Subaru actually recommends 3750 or 7500.
  • rengawrengaw Member Posts: 22
    Concerning the AWD systems of each vehicle, I would rate them as follows:

    1. Forester
    2. RAV4
    3. CRV

    *one interesting sidenote to the RAV's system that I like is you can engage the 4wd system with the push of a button that will produce a 55% front wheel power and 45% rear wheel power that is constant until the vehicle reaches 25 mph, at which time the 4wd system kicks out into the regular AWD system.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    *one interesting sidenote to the RAV's system that I like is you can engage the 4wd system with the push of a button that will produce a 55% front wheel power and 45% rear wheel power that is constant until the vehicle reaches 25 mph, at which time the 4wd system kicks out into the regular AWD system.

    My guess is that it kicks at 25 mph out to become FWD, not AWD. I believe the new RAV4 has an on-demand AWD, meaning that it is FWD until it senses tire slippage, then the rear wheels kick in. So, reverting back to FWD (not AWD) at 25 mph, make more sense.

    Bob
  • rfrfrfrf Member Posts: 31
    As I am rightn now making a purchase decision and this point is an important one, I contacted T:
    Me:
    I want to buy the RAV4 but have a question before I do. I undetsand that the vehicle normally runs in FWD until slippage detected andn then it goes into 4wd, but:

    1. is it possible to run in 4WD before the front wheels sense slippage/can I use the 4WD lock button to select 4wd before i even put the car in motion if i want to run in 4WD from the start and will it then auto disengage at 25mph? can i lock it into 4WD at that point so that i will continue in 4WD at speeds above 25mph?

    2. Once I am in FWD motion, I understand that if the car sense slippage, it will go into 4WD, but will the 4WD lock button allow me to run in 4WD above 25 mph even if the front wheels do not sense slippage at that point?and Quote them:

    T's response:

    We appreciate your interest in the 2009 RAV4!
    Electronic On-Demand Full-Time 4-Wheel Drive (4WD Models)
    "The Electronic on-demand full-time 4WD, introduced in 2006, distributes engine torque between front and rear differentials via an electronic coupling attached to the front of the rear differential. This allows the vehicle to switch continuously from front-wheel drive to 4WD while optimizing the front-to-rear distribution of torque. As a result, stability and fuel economy are better than that of the viscous-coupling system it replaced.
    A manual 4WD Lock switch allows the driver to choose either “Lock” or “Auto” mode. When optimum traction is needed (off-road or on slippery pavement) and the vehicle speed is below 25 mph, a switch to “Lock” maximizes torque distribution (50%) to the rear wheels. At 25 mph or above, the mode is automatically switched to “Auto.” On dry pavement, the driver selects “Auto.” By doing so, torque is distributed to the rear wheels to help ensure stabilized starting from a stop. On straight, dry surfaces, all torque goes to the front wheels to help save fuel. During low-speed cornering, the front wheels get more torque, the rear wheels get less. Whenever the brakes are applied in “Auto” or ”Lock” mode, 4WD is cancelled to optimize the benefits of ABS and enhanced Vehicle Stability Control (VSC).
    Your email has been documented at our National Headquarters and is available for management review. If we can be of further assistance, please feel free to contact us."

    I replied:
    Sorry for the follow up question, but when in Auto mode and driving at speeds above 25 mph, will the car go into 4WD and transfer power to the rear wheels? I need a little more info on how Auto mode works ar speeds above 25 mph. Thanks.

    SEE NXT POST
  • rfrfrfrf Member Posts: 31
    I replied:
    Sorry for the follow up question, but when in Auto mode and driving at speeds above 25 mph, will the car go into 4WD and transfer power to the rear wheels? I need a little more info on how Auto mode works ar speeds above 25 mph. Thanks.

    SEE NXT POST

    T replied:
    Conditions of the RAV4 system operation are as follows:

    Starting from a stop: Drive torque is distributed to the front and rear wheels, with a significant amount going to the rear wheels.

    Low-speed cornering: Little or no torque is distributed to the rear wheels - this aids in preventing driveline binding during cornering.

    Straight and steady driving: Little or no torque is applied to the rear wheels to enhance fuel economy

    Straight-line acceleration: Torque is applied to the rear wheels to enhance traction under acceleration.

    Additionally, the driver can use a “Lock” button to help the vehicle pull itself out of low traction situations such as sand. Operating the “Lock” switch transmits the maximum amount of drive torque to the rear wheels (approx. 45% of total torque output). From the “Lock”mode, the vehicle will automatically return to “Auto” mode when the vehicle speed exceeds 25 mph, or when the driver deactivates the “Lock” mode by depressing the “Lock” switch.

    Whenever the brakes are applied in “Auto” or ”Lock” mode, 4WD is interrupted to optimize the benefits of ABS and enhanced VSC.

    Another feature of the electronic on-demand system is that it can work in conjunction with the VSC system to apply torque to the rear wheels in variable amounts to aid the VSC system in reducing the effects of a vehicle skid condition.

    I replied:
    I thank you very much for the info, but my question is:
    When in Auto mode and driving at speeds above 25 mph, will the Elec dem system transmit drive torque to the rear wheels if the system senses slippage or is the auto mode more of a default for when I come back down to speeds below 26 mph? As an example, if I am driving at speeds in the 50s or 60s (like on the highway) andn the front wheels sense slippage, would the Elec on Dem system transmit drive torque to the rear wheels?

    I got no response. While I may not be the most articulate and nor the most mechanically educated, I have hard earned cash in hand and want to understand how it works before i buy. while i hope that i just did not get a similartly unfamiliar person as a rep to answer my questions, T's response ceratint makes it sound like at speeds above 25 mph, the RAV4 reverts to FWD and that 4WD no longer is avail.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    My question to you, whay do you need 4WD at speed?

    You only need it for added traciton on slippery surfaces when starting from stand still. Once in motion, 4WD is not needed to aid propulsion.

    In fact, powering rear wheels in turns, or sudden power applied to rear wheels in turns, especially on slippery surfaces will send the vehicle into oversteer. Most people don't know how to react to oversteer, since most cars are dialed in for understeer. Most people slam on the brakes and end up rolling their veihcle over.

    Are you prepapred to turn the wheel into the steer and continually apply power to come out of oversteer without flipping the vehicle over?
  • rfrfrfrf Member Posts: 31
    You make just the point. Whether the driver feels it is safe or necessary or of benefit to have 4WD engage at speeds above 25 mph, any (potential) driver of the vehicle wd want the info before committing much cash to the purchase of a vehicle that either: a. does or does not have a feature he feels is necessary or b. has or does not have a feature which he feels is unsafe ... which he also wd not be able to disengage.

    T is a great company and makes great cars ... certyainly among the best ... but T knows whether 4WD engages in Auto mode at speeds above 25 mph or not and T chose to repond (at first, and in the manner they did) and then chose to not respond ... leaving the inquiry open.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Subaru, Audi and others that use full-time AWD would disagree with you on this point. Their position is that AWD can be benefit in terms of performance (accelerating, cornering, etc.), as well as a safety issue under all driving (and all weather) conditions.

    While it can be argued as to whether AWD aids maximum performance, it certainly makes going "fast" easier and safer. For example I've read several articles in which the writers have said that an AWD Porsche 911 is easier to drive at speed, as compared to the a RWD 911. While the RWD 911 may ultimately be faster, the AWD version is still very fast and is much easier to control at speed.

    Also take note that some of the world's fastest cars (Porsche 911 Turbo, Nissan GT-R, Bugatti Veyron, etc.) all employ full-time AWD. Now granted, those cars are in a much different league, but the point is the "performance" benefits of full-time AWD do trickle down to more mundane vehicles as well.

    Bob
  • rfrfrfrf Member Posts: 31
    Just like magic! Since my last post (#775 of 776 Re: [blueiedgod] by rfrf Feb 20, 2009 (10:26 am), I received the following from T:

    "Yes, at speeds above 25 mph the Electronic on-demand full-time 4WD will transmit drive torque to the real wheel if the system senses slippage to the front wheels."

    I guess the T rep must have needed some time to check specs ... or someone in T management must be an Edmunds forum reader!
  • rengawrengaw Member Posts: 22
    Yes, Bob, I didn't explain that correctly. I meant to say that once over 25 mph the system reverted to front wheel drive with the automatic ability bring the rear wheels into play if sensing slipping.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Whenever the brakes are applied in “Auto” or ”Lock” mode, 4WD is cancelled to optimize the benefits of ABS and enhanced Vehicle Stability Control (VSC).

    Sounds very part-time-ish to me.

    Just like Hyundai.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    Also take note that some of the world's fastest cars (Porsche 911 Turbo, Nissan GT-R, Bugatti Veyron, etc.) all employ full-time AWD. Now granted, those cars are in a much different league, but the point is the "performance" benefits of full-time AWD do trickle down to more mundane vehicles as well.

    Those vehicles are primarily RWD, or the AWD unit favors RWD unless there is complete slippage, even then, I don't think they send more than 50% to the front.

    Toyota, Audi, Honda, Hyundai.... are primarily FWD vehicles.

    The addition of power to he front wheels in a RWD vehicle yields advantage, than addition of power to the rear wheels in a FWD vehicle.
  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    The addition of power to he front wheels in a RWD vehicle yields (greater?) advantage, than addition of power to the rear wheels in a FWD vehicle.

    For every rule there is an exception. May I nominate the WRX STi and/or Mitsubishi Evo? :shades:
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    They're all full-time AWD, with a RWD bias, usually around 30/70 - 40/60, front/rear. That F/R bias may shift, depending on driving conditions.

    Bob
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