Stories from the Sales Frontlines

lrguy44 · July 2007

But it is then negotiated down - if it started at NADA Wholesale, you would really not like your ACV. Actually, we start around NADA Retail and we see what like cars are ASKING on Autotrader. Key word is asking, which is far different than selling.

dino001 · July 2007

Well - Kelley trade book "value" can also be considered "asking price" (at least in certain circumstances), if you will - also negotiated down by the buyer, just by the dealers.

greanpea68 · July 2007

My opinion is you should have gotten a half deal. 1) You treated his friend good enoughfor him to refer someone to that dealership. 2) You had spoken with the customer on the phone had the vehicle picked out and the numbers worked out. 3) the sales person who you handed him off to knew about it ( obviously) and should have told the managers that it was a split from the begining. He also should have made sure it was a split before it went into F&I...

Hopefully today is Monday and you can get it all staritened out. It sounds like the salesperson is a young kid and may be new or a bad salesperson.

The car biz is definately not the place to make enemies. You can ruin a sales persons day so many differant ways. 1)put a scratch on a new car delivery. 2) steal a customer when they are not there and say he never asked for him 3) Black ball him... The list could go on.

I don't suggest that kind of work environment but have seen it before but it ussualy ends up being ugly in the end.

I agree 100% it is about the number of cars and not the money. You could end up being a half car away of bonus now.

I also think the other sales person should have honest with the desk and did the right thing. If the desk isn't going split it in the end your not left with much. I hope it works out for you!

exb0 · July 2007

The funny part is that Mr. Kelly is lower than the Black Book most of the time. The BB supposedly represents prices that other dealers pay at wholesale dealer only auctions. That should tell you how much we get screwed on trade-ins.

Used car market is a racket. Over the years I have been noticing that as dealers margins get squeezed on new cars, trade in values drop even faster relative to the BB. It got so bad, that when I tried to trade in an Acura TL at a Honda store, the UCM offered me $3K under BB average condition, and he was able to justify that with a straight face. For that money I was able to buy 8yr 120K AcuraCare bumper to bumper warranty, a set of four performance tires and new brakes, and still had money left over.

I used to trade my cars every three years, but since 2000, I hold on to them until they are worth less than 10K and sell them privately, or buy extended manufactures service plan online and keep them until just a few months before contract expires.

thenebean · July 2007

That should tell you how much we get screwed on trade-ins.

you could always sell it yourself if you don't like getting screwed. no one forces you to trade.

-thene

joe131 · July 2007

"...Kelley trade book "value" can also be considered "asking price"

Not according to Kelley.
The only price in Kelley that is defined as asking price is the Kelley retail number. Kelley says it is the average asking price at dealerships.

dino001 · July 2007

I wouldn't really use "screwed" expression. They learned to play the game better - if they convince you you got "below invoice" deal but practically gave away your car, as long as you're happy, no harm done - is it. I bet majority of "Prices Paid" forum prices are based on that. "I paid 2 thousand below invoice for that new Accord" - usually "forgets" to mention his/her trade was stolen and financing was racked up by three percentage points.

Kirstie_H · July 2007

Since this conversation isn't "sales stories," let's drop it or move it elsewhere - thanks!

geffen · July 2007

I've never tried the Chicken Hala Mala what does it consist of? and how were your egg rolls

user777 · July 2007

i guess i'd speak with the other salesperson directly, rather than making it a big deal with the sales manager and GM. the used car manager can speak for you - but what do you want, the 1/2 mini, or to burry the other salesperson? and your efforts may just backfire. everyone isn't going to read the situation the way you have and conclude the same as to what is right / just / fair...

this person needs a good deal more tutoring, maybe next installment is on character.

anyway, if you can turn the situation into a positive. it's always good to have a line of credit, and he and you may need each other's help in the future.

lrguy44 · July 2007

Also, every time I have seen an issue settled by a manager rather than between the people that have to live together, nobody is happy. In addition, 1 skate deserves a skate of equal or greater value.

carhag2000 · July 2007

I am a mellow peace loving individual. We used to have a policy at our dealership ( we had Honda Nissan Dodge Jeep Chrysler with Honda being one store and all other makes the other store)that a salesman from one store could not take ups or phone ups meant for the other store. ie I as a honda salesman couldnt take Chrysler phone calls and vice versa. This was 01 or 02 when the Honda Odyssey was the hottest ticket out there, a real license to print money. We had a female salesperson, greenpea, who kept stealing Honda phone ups. We suspected it but she would always say thats my Uncle, cousin whatever and we would let her slide. I and the rest of the Honda crew got fed up with her blatantly stealing our prospects. We set her up with a fake phone call on an Odyssey. Had the fictitious customer make an appointment for her day off. She shows up and waits all day for a customer who never showed. Oh and by the way she had whispered to this phantom customer to tell everyone at the dealership that we are related so I can get you a better deal. The more I thought about this thief stealing my income the madder I became. Now I am not a physically impressive person and do not like confrontation of any sort. But by saturday mornings sales meeting I was absolutely livid and couldnt contain myself. I also, in times of stress have a tic where my voice raises two or three octaves and I stutter. Quite amusing actually. Saturdays meeting comes and I interrupt our GSM and say I have something to say. I then launched into a 15 minute profanity laced diatribe about ethics and morals and working together and getting your butt kicked for blatantly stealing like that. I finished my threats/spiel with the quote that is still spoken at the dealership today " And I dont cccccare wwwwwwwhhhhhhhho yyyyyyyou are mmmmmannn or wwwwwwoman I'll kkkkkcik your a**!" I know she thought she was getting cussed out by porky pig.
Needless to say she didnt last too long.

lrguy44 · July 2007

Great story and she got the fate she deserved. I remember when I was new at a Dodge store a long time ago we had a sales guy who would take sales calls while working with a customer or would run to greet a fresh UP, turn them to someone, and retreat to his current customer. First we took him out back and discussed the rules of the road and informed him of the bodily harm he was subjecting himself to. Then for a week we all stationed ourselves on the lot so he could not get an UP. After the week, we just asked him if he was now a team player. He was and turned out to be a real nice guy - just needed some lessons.

carhag2000 · July 2007

The freeze out. I love it. We are getting ready to take care of a second week sales person like that also. Its amazing how someone learns to be a team player when the team makes it hard to earn an income.

greanpea68 · July 2007

We got a guy here too who is doing the same thing. We actually ( me and the other sales guys ) sat down, drew a map of the building with entrances and between the 6 of us we designated areas where would protect from him. We each got our spots.

sometimes you just have to school a newbie... Jsut for the record we did try to talk to the boy first but they never listen. :shades:

mackabee · July 2007

In some cases Kelly's "excellent" condition on trade-in is the same as Kelly's Retail. See for yourself. Try it on a car just for giggles and see what happens.

Mackabee

mackabee · July 2007

I understand what you're saying but I would never stoop down to that level. I went to church yesterday cleared my head and have forgotten about it. Things happen for a reason as they say.
:shades:
Mackabee

mackabee · July 2007

Sorry it's not living up to your expectations.

I try my best to keep everyone interested. Sometimes I have to just get in "the zone" before I sit down and recall all the details of the event. Stay tuned there's more stories to come after the present one.
:shades:
Mackabee

mackabee · July 2007

Hey! A Chicago fan?!!! I wondered who would pick up on it.

Chicago is my favorite band of all time. Original configuration until Kath died. I still follow them but they are not the same since Kath passed, Cetera left and they fired my favorite drummer Danny Seraphine.

They are getting old, the brass members have subs once in a while so the band is really diluted. Just to stay on topic I do hear they all drive Prius(s)?

Mackabee

greanpea68 · July 2007

I didn't think you would do anything crazy. I was just saying I have seen it done in the business. That was at my last dealership. It was a real cut throat place. I think you know what I mean.

Did they ever give you half a car for that deal? I have been in simular situations like that recently. The way the managers made it up was by giving me a spoon. So instead of a half I got a full car deal. Maybe that will happen for you this week.

bolivar · July 2007

In talking to a long time cycle rider years ago, he said there are two things about Harleys:

1) They all leak oil.

2) (I'm not going add this one in. It's related to the trust-worthness of Harley riders.)

So, your customer obviously knows about Rule #1. And bought the service contract on the Harley.

lrguy44 · July 2007

It's related to the trust-worthness of Harley riders

As a Harley rider (with warranty) and a car sales person I would love to know #2. It sounds like it may apply to both :shades:

joe131 · July 2007

A trade-in in truly "excellent" condition is a very rare bird.

rockfish1 · July 2007

I saw in the WSJ today some interesting rules that Lexus sellers have to use in the car dealerships in Japan to increase sales. They are apparently require to follow the Samurai selling method which is:

1. Warrior waiting position - lean 5-10 degrees forward when a customer is looking at a car
2. Serve coffee or tea by kneeling on the floor with both feet together
3. Bow more deeply to buyers than lookers
4. Practice the Lexus smile - a closed mouth smile.
5 Stand with the left hand over the right fingers together and thumbs interlocked as a Samurai did to show they were not about to draw swords.
You guys complain about screamer sales but have any of you on the salesfront had to jump through these types of hoops?

joe131 · July 2007

Well, I don't know about you, but I'd gladly pay WAY more than sticker at a dealership like that!

How much is airfare to Japan?

rockfish1 · July 2007

The last point is what worries me. If you don't buy will the hands and fingers be removed from the interlock position so the sword could be drawn?

british_rover · July 2007

That is why I never shop for Lexi in Japan without my plate armor on.

rockfish1 · July 2007

British_rover, you're in a high level dealership, do you have to follow any interesting owner enforced "traditions" like bowing to you buyers?

I can understand if these may be trade secrets and you may not be able to reveal them.

imidazol97 · July 2007

Thanks for posting this. It's time to get out of here and you've given me a good laugh for evening.

rockfish1 · July 2007

It's time to get out of here and you've given me a good laugh for evening

You have it wrong. You not suppose to laugh! Rule 4 says for the proper Lexus smile you must keep you lips closed and smile. You may need to be retrained until you get it right.

cotmc · July 2007

"You guys complain about screamer sales..."

How about Samurai Screamer Sales!! :P

The big catch-phrase at the end: "If you find a better deal anywhere else, I'll fall on my sword!"

benderofbows · July 2007

A few years ago I worked at a Ford store for 4 months before being hired away to another sales job. One day I walked out on the lot to greet a man and his young adult son who had pulled in and parked by the Mustangs. Being much closer to them than a veteran salesperson was, I reached them first and was about to introduce myself. Suddenly, the other salesperson urgently called me back. He claimed that these were his customers whom he had spoken to previously, so I broke off and let him finish making his way over to them. As I was leaving, I heard him say "Welcome to (ABC) Ford, my name is (Snake), and you are?"

Well, I was pretty mad about it, and my anger only intensified as he wrote them up for a very nice used Mustang, a father-son gift. After they went into the business office to sign, "Snake" took the Mustang down the street to fill it up with gas. Time went by, the customers were waiting, but he didn't return... Turns out he hadn't closed the car door while he was pumping, and a driver leaving another pump took the door clean off!

Needless to say, the deal fell through as the customers no longer wanted the car; even though they were promised that the body shop would make it "good as new," it would have an accident history and repainted panels, plus they'd have to wait for it and I think they just wanted to be done. I really enjoyed telling the salesman that he got what was coming to him! He wasted the whole day closing the deal, sitting with the cops at the gas station, and dealing with the aftermath in the office. Sometimes, things have a way of working themselves out.

rockfish1 · July 2007

How about Samurai Screamer Sales!!

The big catch-phrase at the end: "If you find a better deal anywhere else, I'll fall on my sword!"

And you thought dealers in North America had employee turnover problems! :surprise:

joel0622 · July 2007

That is classic right there

Great story

madmanmoo · July 2007

Wow, instant karma. What a jerk that guy is.

-Moo

bobst · July 2007

That's a great story, Bender.

Sometimes it seems like there is a divine sense of justice in this world.

greanpea68 · July 2007

That's a good one!!

mackabee · July 2007

If you think that's funny, check this one out!

When Tank started working here one of the other salesperson's wife came in looking for her husband. Tank did not know all the salespeople yet but at least he should have asked the receptionist but instead he says: "He's not here today. Is there something I can help you with?" and she responded "He darn better be here today. I'm his wife and he told me he was coming to work today!" :mad: The look on Tank's face was priceless

Mackabee

jmonroe · July 2007

I'm his wife and he told me he was coming to work today!" The look on Tank's face was priceless

Another cliff hanger from Mack.

Does anyone think he's going to finish this one. :surprise:

jmonroe

jipster · July 2007

I feel like defending something I do not want to defend. I said that before I'm not for mfr-run stores.

Yeah, I think I know that feeling. Where were you two weeks ago. I could have used some backup when I was getting heckled by all the salesfolk. Three things you don't talk with salesfolk about 1) religion 2) politics and 3) mfr-run stores. :P

Our Ford plant here in Louisville is having their annual manufacturers sale next weekend. 0% financing plus incentives, sounds fairly competitive to me. I guess the local dealerships may be a bit perturbed. :confuse:
Doesn't sound that great a deal as fine print at bottom indicated models indicated to be sold at MSRP.

jipster · July 2007

Welcome back from the "beach" jmonroe. We just got back from a nice trip to Panama City Beach. This older guy stepped on my son's sandcastle... was that you?

This loungechair for rent "sales-dude" tried to rent me a chair with umberella for the day. He had pretty good skills I guess. Talking about how we would get burned etc etc. It was a $30 a day rental. If I had wanted one, I suspect I could have gotten it down to 15 or 20. :shades:

fezo · July 2007

What? You didn't even find out the hold back on the chair?

metro123 · July 2007

A co-worker recently used a buying service to purchase a new truck. It was a small operation that had relationships with local and regional dealers and could pretty much get any make of car. Pricing was competitive, they could help with financing and basically you never had to step foot in the dealership. What I found interesting was that they did not charge any up front fees to the buyer, but included an aftermarket extended warranty in each purchase. (About $1,000 extra) I guess they make their money on the markup.

It sounded better than just paying someone a fee up front to help you buy. Is this something different of just another version of the buying services that are already out there.

Comments?

lrguy44 · July 2007

The dealer may cut a check to the broker that you never see, but you could have negotiated for yourself. Brokers are not non-profit organizations. It could not be much of a warranty if retail is only $1000,

volvomax · July 2007

Most "buying services" get their money from the dealer.
Part of the markup in the sale price goes to the buying service.

jmonroe · July 2007

This older guy stepped on my son's sandcastle... was that you?

I have small grandsons so I would never do anything like that without rebuilding it. I still like to play in the sand, it keeps you young. For the record, Im not old; Im experienced. :surprise:

This loungechair for rent "sales-dude" tried to rent me a chair with umberella for the day.

It was a $30 a day rental.

Yeah, I ran into his brother at Ft. Lauderdale beach. Same price but he had a weekly rate of $75. Im not a payment buyer so I didnt bite. I sat by the pool where, if you got there early enough, you could get a table with an umbrella and four chairs and as many lounge chairs as you wanted and you didnt have to pay anything.

Now get a load of this, I got to talking to the guy who owned the umbrella stand (also rented water ski-doos or whatever theyre called for $75 for 45 minutes and he had a line of people waiting for this too) and he said he closes down his stand in the middle of October and opens up again in May. He goes to Aruba for that period. I asked him how much it would take to buy into his operation but he laughed and said I couldnt afford it. Although I probably could afford it for that period, when the water is cold.

I guess car sales guys arent the only ones who pre-qualify people.

jmonroe

boomchek · July 2007

Well everyone it's been nice to hang out here, but I turned 30 years old on July 7 (my dob is 07/07/77) and have a whole list of plans for the next 10 years (including retirement

).

One of them is to focus more on my career, and enjoy my free time more often.

But lately my free time was being spent here analyzing and arguing over why Joe Carbuyer will shop me for $10 and a free coffee mug on a 1986 Chevette that we shouldn't have taken in on a trade or how dealer A "scams" people by offering warranty or financing and what-not while dealer B runs screamer ads on cars they don't have. And how they both make profit in the end! :surprise:

Life's too short to be stressed over nonsense. I don't have the time anymore to beat a dead horse.

It has been fun while it lasted and a pleasure meeting people from both sides of the table here and hearing opinions from both sides as well.

I will be lurking around and might add a comment or two but not as much as before.

Take care guys and thanks for the insights on human psychology from here. I learned alot.

jmonroe · July 2007

and have a whole list of plans for the next 10 years (including retirement

If you become an umbrella salesman in Florida, I'd bet you could retire in 2/3 years (see post 13865) if you're really serious about this. :P

Good luck anyways,

jmonroe

1racefan · July 2007

"I sat by the pool where, if you got there early enough, you could get a table with an umbrella and four chairs and as many lounge chairs as you wanted and you didnt have to pay anything"

If you were savvy, you would have gotten to the pool really early, and "claimed" all of the seating as yours. You could have then rented out pool chairs, and possibly made enough to cover your vacation.

joel0622 · July 2007

Ah yes, at noon on Saturday I will be shutting down my computer here at my desk and carrying my happy butt to the land of sand and Corona for a week. Me and my much better half along with my daughter and her boy friend are going to Myrtle Beach for a week.

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