Stories from the Sales Frontlines

jimmy2x · July 2007

I think that it was producer Daryl Zanuck who said that "A verbal contract is not worth the paper it is written on"

I could not agree more.

lrguy44 · July 2007

You might want to look at European - the driving expirience and customer service for all the brands may better meet your expectations. Just a thought.

scottinky · July 2007

since you are an american buyer, sounds like a Dodge Magnum SRT/8 is just your
ticket. Big and fast, and can haul the doggies around.

mako1a · July 2007

Mr sell, take a chill pill. This is about fun banter with a possible lesson intertwined. Do a bowl. Relax. Life is not That serious!

sky23213 · July 2007

I just don't understand what Isell "and his business practices" has to do with with all this? Ok, you got a bait and switch pulled on you, but who hasn't. As others said - if you've lost trust in dealers in general, do your homework, especially if you go to a 2 hour drive.
As the hosts have advised numerous times, let's not jump on the ever decreasing number of salespeople here - so far they have convinced us that they are not "those dealers". Just the fact that they care to take the time and entertain us here counts for something.
And no, I'm not a dealer; as a matter of fact I got a bait and switch pulled on me 2 years ago by a Honda dealer. Well, they got he finger (verbally), next one was exactly the opposite - detailed breakdown of the price, meeting, handshake, signature and everyone was happy.

Kirstie_H · July 2007

...and if you look around the Forums, you'll note that there are plenty of topics available in which consumers can gripe (or rejoice) about purchasing experiences. Let's be considerate of our salespeople who participate in this discussion.

carhag2000 · July 2007

I have sold cars for 10 years. I lurk here and read every post with great interest. on the rare occasions that I do post, I dont really mind when the bashing begins. I have come to expect that, here as well as in real life. I realize that my profession ( yes it is a profession) has a horrible reputation. And after meeting my predecessors I believe that it is richly deserved. All I can do is be scrupulously honest in all of my dealings with the public. I also have a " guilty until proven innocent" expectation of my customers and there actions.
As a result I am rarely dissapointed.

joel0622 · July 2007

I preach all the time in the sales meetings that the most important customer in the world is the one sitting in front of you, all others can wait.

epiney · July 2007

I realize that my profession ( yes it is a profession) has a horrible reputation. And after meeting my predecessors I believe that it is richly deserved. All I can do is be scrupulously honest in all of my dealings with the public. I also have a " guilty until proven innocent" expectation of my customers and there actions.
As a result I am rarely dissapointed.

It's too bad that autos seem to bring out the worst in sales and consumers alike. I'm glad that you approach your profession with honesty, but am disappointed that you assume your customers are "guilty". I give the sales person the benefit of doubt at first, many disappoint, some don't. The ones that don't make the transaction the way it should be. Smooth and cordial with the least amount of effort on both sides.

However, it does make for good stories

...mack and britishrover, where are you? You got stories to finish.

jmonroe · July 2007

I realize that my profession ( yes it is a profession) has a horrible reputation. And after meeting my predecessors I believe that it is richly deserved. All I can do is be scrupulously honest in all of my dealings with the public.

Well at least youre willing to admit that youre profession has some very well deserved skepticism from the general public. From a personal standpoint I have found the last two dealers I have dealt with (05 and 06) to be far, far better as people than back in the 70s and 80s. I guess some things change for the better but as the saying goes the squeaky wheel gets the grease, therefore, well hear about the bad dealers all the time. Unfortunately, thats the way its going to be, not that I agree with this mentality.

The sales people that come here arent the ones the buying public has a problem with, quite the opposite. Although, there have been some of the old-school guys that have come here but after being beaten up a couple of well deserved times they left. Good riddins I say. Im sure the intent of this board was for the exchange of some good back and forth discussion about the car biz and for the most part thats been achieved.

You guys in the biz have to some pretty thick skin to come here but also dont expect us somewhat informed buyers to just roll over and play dead with everything you sayWE LIKE PROOF !!!

OK, Im done, kick to soap box out from under me.

jmonroe

mackabee · July 2007

You have every right to be pissed off. I know I would have and would have raised hell. 120 miles! When I was running the internet department at my store I had the authority to sell any new vehicle at whatever I chose to make the deal happen. I had customers come in from up as far as Connecticut to purchase 2wd trucks, military folks who were overseas and transferring back to the states would e-mail me asking for quotes on specific vehicles and I would have the vehicles ready when they arrived back in the US. The guy from Connecticut called me and told me he didn't need a round trip ticket as it was cheaper to buy round trip then one way so I told him we would pay for the ticket and I would personally pick him up at the airport. Customer satisfaction? You bet! :shades: Some dealers still don't get it.
Mackabee

bolivar · July 2007

You have a very strange thought logic.

For instance, Cadillac having a model with a V6 manual eliminates all Cadillacs from your consideration?

jmonroe · July 2007

The guy from Connecticut called me and told me he didn't need a round trip ticket as it was cheaper to buy round trip then one way so I told him we would pay for the ticket and I would personally pick him up at the airport.

Well I'm sure that deal wasn't a "mini" but I'm also sure that guy didn't decide to buy at your store in Virginia Beach unless he was saving some money. So, I have to assume this was one of those win/win situations.

But, geez, I'd never think of going that far to buy a car. When I drove 20 miles across town, instead of buying in my own neighborhood, the last time I bought I thought that was going to the end of the world. :surprise:

Now make me feel bad, I guess I've passed up some good deals, huh?

jmonroe

snakeweasel · July 2007

No, the people working there should get some time off with their families.

They can still get time off with their families but to be serious it is retail sales and the nature of the beast is to make those sales you have to be available during the times when the vast majority of people are off.

and there are plenty of times available to BUY cars

Here in Illinois the law requires that dealerships close on Sunday. However during about 2.5 months during the year thats the only day I have available to buy a car.

snakeweasel · July 2007

Ok, sorry, let me rephrase that, IIRC I am the only one on this forum that has used it. (which is what I ment)

mackabee · July 2007

Well, seems like 2wd Pre-runner Double cabs are non-existent up north. That was my first question to him after I recieved his request. "You do know this is a 2wd truck and not a 4x4 correct?" he replied he did and that no-one had them up north. He also told me he had a regular cab 4x4 he would use in the winter. He also told me he was dealing with a dealership in Maryland but felt the salesperson he was talking with was not knowledgeable about the vehicle so he didn't feel a "warm fuzzy". When we were close to making the deal he mentioned flying and I suggested he try hotwire.com I have used them before and another one which I won't mention due to bad service so he looked it up and said it'd be cheaper for a round trip ticket but he would only need it one way since he would drive the truck back. That's when I told him we would pick up the tab by discounting the vehicle the price of the airfare. The deal was like $500.00 over invoice and he financed and got the pro-pack so it wasn't a loser deal (money wise)

I just let a customer walk on a Tacoma as he was being stubborn. I showed him a vehicle thursday and gave him a $2200.00 discount. He wanted to go to his credit union and would let me know today. He calls today and wants to haggle some more. He offers $25k out the door! plus he wants us to flip the tires so the raised white letters are on the inside. I thought he hit his head over the weekend and I tell him we probably can't do it but I'll check with the GM. I go to the GM and he looks at the deal and we counter with $25,100.00 if he finances thru TFS or $25,500.00 if he brings us a check and we will flip the tires. And if he declines to let him walk. This is 1855 under invoice! :surprise:

The customer comes in and I show him the figures and he declines our offer.

Says $25k out the door is the max and he's sticking with his credit union. I find out his credit union is doing 5% for 60 months on $25,000 which would put his payment at $403.00 a month which he told me on Saturday he was trying to get to. I tell him we are way under invoice and he's getting a GREAT! deal and even show him Edmund's TMV which on that truck is just over $26k. He's still recalcitrant about the deal so I let him walk. Before he leaves he tells me to call him if we change our mind. (holding my breath

)
So we are 1855 under invoice plus shop charges for flipping all four tires plus state inspection since this truck was dx'd from another store. When all is said and done is over $2000.00 dollar loser. He should have taken the deal. My GM was probably relieved he didn't. :shades:
Mackabee

lrguy44 · July 2007

Snake, There are times I sacrifice work for my family, but more often than not I sacrifice my family for work. However, if we are not to complain about this because of the nature of retail sales, you should not complain that you cannot buy a car during tax season because dealers are closed on Sundays. It is the nature of your chosen profession.

snakeweasel · July 2007

What do Nissan dealers have to do with Mustangs?

I would presume they take them in on trade and sell them as used cars. But thats just me.

snakeweasel · July 2007

Oh don't get me wrong, I am not complaining. If working those hours was an issue for me I wouldn't do it.

My point is is that we chose our profession and hopefully we have some understanding of the commitment involved before taking on a particular job. That being said I rarely have sympathy for people who complain about certain aspects of their jobs.

When I managed retail sales many a year ago I would interview people and explain to them the nature of the beast lots of evenings and weekends and job seekers would be all for it. But when push came to shove many of them complained about working the odd hours when most of their friends were off. I put this type of person in the same category as people who move next to airports and complain about the noise.

you should not complain that you cannot buy a car during tax season because dealers are closed on Sundays. It is the nature of your chosen profession.

Nope its the nature of anti-consumer laws.

stickguy · July 2007

wht ever happened to the latest episode of "if the Shue fits"?

jmonroe · July 2007

He should have taken the deal. My GM was probably relieved he didn't.

If he comes back, will he get that deal? Especially if he comes back at the end of the month. You know, when everyone is scrambling to get to their numbers. Just curious.

jmonroe

joel0622 · July 2007

Those who work average hours on an average schedule have the opportunity to make average wages, those who work extraordinary hours on extraordinary schedules have the opportunity to make extraordinary wages.

That is what I used to tell job seekers when I interviewed them for a sales job here.

There is a reason that there is a high turn over rate in this biz. Its not because the income potential isn't there its because allot of people don't have the potential. If we needed 4 sales people we would hire 16 knowing that in 3 months 4 of them would be left. I would tell them that to on there first day.

jmonroe · July 2007

wht ever happened to the latest episode of "if the Shue fits"?

Don't bug him. He's selling right now (might even lead to another tale). We'll have to wait for an opening.

jmonroe

joel0622 · July 2007

While I was driving to Myrtle Beach on vacation last week I was in a small town called Conway in SC. I was at a stop light and noticed a small hand painted sign to my left. It said

Fresh Vegetables
Too
Blocks

It instantly reminded me of the grammar police here at Edmunds

I asked my wife, "How in the hell do they turn fresh vegetables into blocks?"

joel0622 · July 2007

Here is a quick story/FYI for the other car guys.

Last week we had someone break into our storage lot and steal the catalytic converters off of 8 trucks. Apperantley you can sell the stuff inside of them for around $300. It has happened at several lots here in town.

cotmc · July 2007

What do Nissan dealers have to do with Mustangs?

I would presume they take them in on trade and sell them as used cars. But thats just me.

I think you might be missing the full breadth of isell's question. The original poster said he assumes all Nissan dealers are liars regarding price, and he will never buy a Mustang. (#14350) I was also a bit confused. Did this bad experience with a Nissan dealership cause mako1a to avoid Mustangs? :confuse:

Of course, there is also the question of whether a bad experience at one dealer should cause somebody to avoid all other dealers of the same make? I don't see that happening for the majority of us. Hey, I had one bad experience at a high-volume Nissan dealership about ten years ago, but that experience would never prevent me from showing a reasonable degree of trust during verbal/email negotiations with another Nissan associate. Look at the high-integrity Nissan reps that frequent this board, such as Moo and Greenpea, who more than balance the equation back the other direction.

There is a vast cross-section of our society employed at all of these various dealerships across our land. No single make has cornered the market for the best and brightest personnel. Likewise, I don't think any single make intentionally employs or encourages liars, cheats, and pranksters!

cotmc · July 2007

I'll bet you he comes (or calls) back, and that mack will have more to add to this story!

The question is -- will he finish his other stories first?

british_rover · July 2007

A few weeks ago some crooks stole a bunch of wheels off a lot of the dealerships in our area. The acura dealership had wheels taking of a TL Type S and our VW dealership had the wheels taken off their R32.

We didn't get hit probably because our lot is very open and right in front of a major shopping center with a stop light. It would have been funny to see them try and steal the wheels of a nearly 6,000 lbs long travel suspension Land Rover with a floor jack though. :P

This past weekend someone broke into our storage shed and stole our AC Machine though. :mad:

cotmc · July 2007

carhag,

As a customer, I appreciate your sentiments. I think another way of saying it is, "Be prepared, but hope for the best."

I think the bad reputation of car salesmen was also greatly propagated throughout the media. The car sales scene in the movie "Fargo" is a classic piece of comedy, but it doesn't do anything to help your image. The movie "Suckers" might reinforce some peoples' opinions of how sales managers think of customers, even though it should be obvious this movie was reflecting a seedy business from long ago.

Wait, I almost forgot to mention some of the TV commercials played locally during the past few years. One involved an over-weight bald guy dressed in white with a black mask who called himself "The Loan Arranger". Then we have ol' Tex sitting on a big ox, ending each commercial with "... and that ain't no bull!". Then there are the radio ads with the big voice yelling: "Push, pull, or tow it in, and we'll give you up to $5000 on your trade!" Amusing maybe, but not helpful to the cause.

joel0622 · July 2007

I got a bad hamburger at Wendy's, I will never eat beef again. :shades:

snakeweasel · July 2007

Oprah? Is that you?

metro123 · July 2007

During hurricane Katrina, crooks entered a local Nissan dealership near me and stole 8 vehicles by crashing a Pathfinder through a security gate. This was in the middle of the storm!!!!

cotmc · July 2007

I once heard that somebody claimed to get some bad chili at Wendy's. Or, at least I think they did. For some reason, I can't quite put my finger on it...

joel0622 · July 2007

greanpea68 · July 2007

Last Tuesday I have a B-Back come in. I have been working this prospect for a month. We'll call him Mr. Smith. So a month ago Mr. Smith comes in and wants to look at Altima's. We look at the 4cyl and the 6 cyl. After about two hours of test driving he says he still has vehicles to look at. MAinly Toyota Camry's. So I follow up and he finnaly comes in last tuesday. Mr. Smith knows exactly what he wants and we walk over to the Altima line and he says Ok this one will do a red Altima. I ask do you want to test drive it again to make sure and he declines. No lets just go write it up and asks when he can take delivery. I say you can have it tommorow. What time do you want to pick it up? He says 6:00pm I say no problem. We do paper work and he leaves. It was a real easy process. It seemed too good to be true!
Well the next day I come and go to clean up and ask how my delivery is coming along and the clean up guy says great but you have paint missing from the front bumper. :sick:

Anytime there is damage it can be ugly the deal can fall apart anything. Now I call the guy and leave a message to call but no call back. He shows up at 6:30 pm. I take him out to the car have him walk around it and ask how does it look? He says it looks great. Now some people in this business would probably just try deliver it and not take responsibilty for it and say hey you drove it off the lot, it's your problem now.

So after he says that it looks great I say OK there is one problem look down here. He looks and see's it. I say we can do two things you can either take it now or come back and we can give you a rental to repair it. He say's I'll take it now. I tell him to call me next week and we'll set something up. We took the car today and should have it back for him on Thursday. And we out him in a rental. When the customer left he said he really appreciated that we were up front with him and took care of the problem. i couldn't believe it he was happy. He didn't make a big deal and ask for 10 free oil changes or cancel the deal

I know this wasn't a exciting story but if you were me on that day of delivery it can be pretty agonizing wondering what is going to happen.

imidazol97 · July 2007

>Oprah? Is that you?

Good one! It took me a minute to figure out the reference to when Oprah stuck her hoof in her mouth about beef and got sued.

rockfish1 · July 2007

Last week we had someone break into our storage lot and steal the catalytic converters off of 8 trucks. Apparently you can sell the stuff inside of them for around $300. It has happened at several lots here in town.

These converters seem to be a popular item with thieves all over. Since crooks tend to be lazy and vehicles have more ground clearance then ever, it is easier for them to wack and run. :mad:

murphydog · July 2007

Agreed,

I saw a jerk using a cell phone in his car. Not only should we ban wendy's and of course beef but we should ban cell phones as well...and cars for that matter...Plus that fist car sales man I bought from screwed me over too...guess that makes all car salespeople jerks too.

Just kidding of course, (I am I am!) but that is what happens when sweeping comments/decisions are made based on emotions not data...

I think it is funny that we should not make sweeping statements about car sales people ( and i agree with this 100%) but we accept sweeping statements about other things...like the cell phone.

Sorry for the off topic post, it is a pet peeve of mine.

Mack you got another good story to offer some cover here?!?!?

murphydog · July 2007

I think that chili cost extra as it had options included... :shades:

jmonroe · July 2007

oh c'mon it wasn't THAT funny.

jmonroe

jmonroe · July 2007

...the clean up guy says great but you have paint missing from the front bumper.

...And we out him in a rental.

So, whose tab was that, Nissans or the dealers? Either way, you did the right thing. Congratulations.

When the customer left he said he really appreciated that we were up front with him and took care of the problem.

That's the way it should be done but we know it doesn't always happen like this. He'll probably be a repeat customer and when he spreads the word, and he will, the referrals won't be bad either. This could turn out to be one of your best sales.

jmonroe

roadburner · July 2007

Back in the early eighties the local Chevy dealer still left the cars on the lot unlocked. One night my Dad and I were checking out a new Caprice Classic. I opened the door and found the key in the ignition. We were good friends with the owner and briefly considered driving it home and bringing it back the next day after the store opened. Instead we simply took the keys with us. The next day I brought the keys back and told the Sales Manager we had considered taking the car. He told me that he was sorry we hadn't taken it, because it might have scared the sales staff into being a bit more careful. I told him that if he'd leave the keys in a Corvette or Z28 I'd be sure to take it home... :P

mackabee · July 2007

Got home about an hour and a half ago. We're into the home stretch so you may not see my pretty face

around here for a few days. I will be at the Highlander launch tomorrow morning at Richmond, Va so I have to get up bright and early for the drive up there. Back at the store to wrap up a deal and I may get the truck guy back. I have a feeling that if he shops my number around he's either going to get laughed at or thrown out!

Mackabee

P.S. and yes I will honor the price at the end of the month if the vehicle is still on the lot.

isellhondas · July 2007

I just have strong feelings about cellphone usage while driving because of things I have observed many times.

It is impossible to focus on the content of an intense conversation while giving your driving 100%.

I guess that is a pet peeve of mine too.

roadburner · July 2007

Loyal readers of this topic may recall that I was all set to buy a new Mazdaspeed3 from my local(Louisville KY) Mazda dealer, but was turned off by the dealer's $3000 ADM sticker. I decided to buy the car from the Cincinnati dealer that had actually let me test drive a MS3 a few weeks ago. I simply called the sales person I had dealt with and told him what I wanted. Less than 30 minutes later he had located the exact car in Cleveland and worked out a dealer trade. My car would be transported by truck to Cinci at no additional charge. I put a deposit on my Visa and the deal was done. A few days later I drove up to the dealer and picked the car up. The paperwork contained no surprises and the F&I person didn't try to push any mop and glow or extended warranties. I was in and out in under 45 minutes. The deal was simple- no trade, MSRP+ a $265.50 doc/title fee. Some people claim to have bought these cars for $500-$1000 under MSRP, but I thought the deal was fair and I was happy with the dealership. The service department has an excellent reputation and I get free oil changes for as long as I own the car. We visit family near Cinci several times a year, so I will be able to take advantage of the service. A great experience overall.

holycoupe · July 2007

I apologize if my inquiry does not fit in this board.

I am in the market for a used vehicle that is only sold by a private party.
I tried cars.com, and autotrader, but they seem to carry whole lot more dealers than individual salers. Could someone recommend a good site that I should try? I'd deeply appreciate.

tidester · July 2007

I apologize if my inquiry does not fit in this board.

Apology accepted but please do try to be a bit more discerning in where you drop messages.

Could someone recommend a good site that I should try?

Yes, I can recommend a good site that you should try and you're already here.

Please post your question in Questions About Private Sale Transactions. I also recommend looking at the many vehicle specific discussions here.

Used vehicles, used car prices, used car values at Edmunds may also be helpful.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

oldfarmer50 · July 2007

"...I use this to annoy people..."

It works.

oldfarmer50 · July 2007

"...I just let a customer walk on a Tacoma as he was being stubborn..."

Sounds like he was using the Bobst method. He just didn't get his research right. Don't worry though, he may return at a later date and offer slightly more.

oldfarmer50 · July 2007

"...Fresh Vegetables Too Blocks..."

We farmers pay consultants big bucks to come up with those "folksy" signs so you rubes won't notice that you're being over charged. All that country bumpkin, poor but honest stuff works like a charm. :P

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