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Comments
Of course, my ignorance could be bliss. Or, more than likely, I'm a semi-educated consumer. Been reading the car rags since the '70s, pre-internet went to the library to review NADA guides, Edmond's books etc... Even pumped gas in high school, still probably my favorite job of all time!
I'm not saying that every car I've purchased has been a negative net for the dealer, but I've always been satisfied enough with the final price to sign on the dotted line. In fact the last few cars I've bought the F & I guy/gal started by presenting the options sheets and saying something to the effect of, "You're not going to be interested in any of this, so on we go..." I've financed my last two cars through the dealer because my '99 300M was 0%/36months and my '05 TL is 2.9%/48 months. I've got a couple of CDs earning nearly twice the 2.9%!
I think that the Lexus dealer got the better of the deal on the evil wife's '02 RX. I bought a bit above invoice but I made a critical negotiating mistake of bringing the EW along. And my parents who were visiting and getting hungry... :sick: But, I got a "free" Lexus hat and golf shirt! And I've certainly taken advantage of the "free" washes... But the car I bought was the car I intended to buy at a not unreasonable price.
So, I guess I'm in the minority. I'm not sure I understand how someone can car shop, much less buy, without knowing exactly what they want?
Also, I'm a fairly inveterate window shopper. I ID myself as a "Looky-Lou." Went with a couple of coworkers at lunch time to a local Ford/Chevy dealer as one guy is looking for a used Ford Exploder for his wife. Since that particular vehicle holds no interest to me, I wandered over to the Chevy side to look at the shiny 'Vettes. Salesman comes by, introduces. I immediately say that I'm strictly a "Looky-Lou." He had a total blank expression, he said he had never heard that term before! I explained, he got sad...
And I believe I already told the story of how my lovely, yet evil, wife, inadvertently and ever so briefly misled a poor Jag saleswoman...
Fun thread, good people. Positive thoughts for Mac, all our soldiers past and present, friends and family. And, Moo. Stories from the Porsche store! Gotta be a sea change for you!
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
A sales persons job - whatever industry - is to find what people want and find the product to meet those wants. You can't learn all about a car from print - a good salesman will impart in depth knowledge plus the hands on experience needed to make an intelligent decision.
If Salespeople were not needed then we would not be here. The dealer would hire greeters and pay them $8.50 PH.. But apparently the dealer sees the benefit of paying a good salesmen $100K+ a year instead of paying a greeter $17.5K per year.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
I will second that, I don't talk to a salesman seriously until I decide what I want and am ready to pull the trigger on the deal. At that point I know all I need to know about the car.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
SO I figure I have a done deal right? I take Lisa out to the coupe, do my walk around, put her in the drivers seat and have her get ready for the test drive.( Now my test drives take about 10-15 minutes depending on traffic. ) I go around to the passenger door and hop in.
Now keep in mind yesterday was my birthday ( 34 ) and I hung out with my two best friends Sam Adams and Jose Ceurvo. Now as I hop in the passenger seat I feel gas moving around in my stomach ready to come out. :sick: Now I know if I do it won't be a pleasant thing and it could kill the deal.( as natural as it is ) So I continue with my presentation in the car and she asks me to be quiet because she wants to listen to how the car sounds and that was good because all I could think about was how am I going to hold this gas in till we get back to the dealership. So after about 5 minutes we get to the highway and we get going. Now the only talking going on is me saying take a right here and a left there. Basically pointing. On the highway about 8 minutes into the test drive I am starting to sweat because my stomache is doing back flips holding this thing in. I was so into my own world concentrating on this that I forgot I was on a test drive until she spoke up and asked how long do we on the highway.
I go back and find Lisa and find out she doesn't feel safe in the coupe because of the blind spots. She does love the drive of the Altima coupe and I explain that sedan has great visibilty. so now we take a look at that. She sits in it and feels comfortable. Work numbers $200 over invoice. She is happy and is taking delivery Tuesday night.
When I was on the test drive holding in my flatuate I started wondering how many other sales people have had this happen to them. :surprise:
I have to say anyway you cut it.... Farting equals funny.... :P
Sooo, you buy without ever test driving? I guess that's OK with a Hyundai :shades:
As to being led into purchasing an automobile, I am open to suggestions from salesmen---even when I have done my homework. If I was prepared to buy an Escape but Joel showed me the advantages and a special deal on an Explorer, I would listen. If isellhondas was showing me a CRV but suggested that we also look at the Pilot, I would do that,too. One of my cars is a Chrysler Sebring Touring convertible. When I bought it, we were really looking at the PT Cruiser convertible as a second car. The sales manager pointed out that the Sebring had more leg room, more trunk space, better gas mileage, etc. He didn't con me because he immediately showed us the difference in price. We are very happy with the purchase and I appreciate his patience and time. He even had to tolerate that "Let us go home and think about it." routine. I came home and studied the Sebring first on Edmunds. We then went back and did the deal. If you have that kind of salesman along with the personality of a mackabee, then what I see is a salesman for life, and for him, a customer for life. Having flexibility in life can sometimes pay off.
I did buy the car, partially because the internet manager was there. I told them what the deal was and he wanted an incremental sale. He was a good guy actually. When customers like me know the market and where the best prices are, he treats sales as moving metal, an incremental sale. They try to make it on local buyers that don't get other quotes. Most people still think getting a couple grand of a Lexus is great deal so they are happy and the dealer gets a 4 or 5 K gross. Out in less than an hour with a signed buyers order.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
He probably realized that he was wasitng his time with you and found some customers to assist. I am not being negative towards you just stating a possible reason why he left you.
Do you really think the best salesman in the land could actually sell somebody a Hyundai? For someone to drive one of those home, you had to want one when you walked in. :P
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Ok you got me there, I will take you off the "been sold" list and you over on to the "just a lay down" list.
This is why I, and several others here, are I surmise in the minority. When I buy, I buy exactly what I intend. Now, I may not get the best price on earth, but when I'm done I've rarely had buyer's remorse. The "free" Lexus hat and shirt assuaged that one!
And as far as the need for salesman? No doubt, Joel. Timeshares don't just sell themselves either!
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Nothing wrong with either approach. However you get what you want, minority vs. majority. It's cool, as long as you are an educated consumer.
Actually, Mr. Lexus Sales Guy was rather incredulous when I told him which RX we were interested in and gave him several VINs from their inventory that matched our requirements! Yeah, wandering the indoor lot noting VIN numbers. Too much time on my hands...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
You gotta admit that you are not the typical buyer though. Most people think they know what they want, but are really looking a two or three serious options. I still believe that a good sales person can tilt the perception of their vehicle or speed up the purchase decision for most buyers.
Yeah, I'll say, way too much time. :sick: I will only do that with online inventories. Even with those they may not be up to date. I've noticed some dealers list everything that comes in even though it's been ordered for a customer and already sold.
But why not just let the guy look them up for you? If you feel he's an order taker, you might as well let him do some extra work.
To be honest, yes, all car salesfolks have ultimately been test drive-enablers, order taking messengers to the SM for me. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I may be one of 'em in retirement! But well informed re: my products. A rare trait, unfortunately in my experiences.
Jag (XK, XF) and Audi (A/S5) salesman, I'm a comin' eventually...! 'Till then, the name's Lou. Lookie-Lou.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
That's been my experience with BMW salespeople, almost all of them have been very knowledgeable about the cars, but they almost never know as much about them as I do.
On the other hand, the guy that sold me my Mazdaspeed3 had me beat. He knew the car inside and out- we established a rapport immediately(especially when he encouraged me to "drop down a couple of gears and nail it!" on the test drive). Of course, it didn't hurt that he also owns a couple of Triumph bikes and once raced at the 24 Hours of Nelson Ledges. Oh yeah, he also had a nice 1/43 scale Mazda 787B model on his desk.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I wouldn't disagree with you there, but perhaps I have learned to not expect them to be more knowledgeable. There are many that move around among makes and unless they are a real car nuts, they will never know more than someone that pours over every bit of available information out there including the forums before they buy. I recently had the pleasure to buy two vehicles. I did not find a sales person that had more product knowledge and overall market knowledge during my shopping trips. But then again, I did not expect it.
OMG! I though my Stepfather was the only person in the world to do this!
So, he spent all of two minutes with me, and since I told him I was going to buy in a couple of months, not today, he blew me off. For not being willing to spend another 5-10 minutes with me on a slow weekday evening (which is when you guys here say I should be coming for this type of shopping), he guaranteed that I will not buy from this dealership!
Why not just fire the salesman and find another one? If the dealer is geographically convenient or has a reputation for competitive pricing, why let a careless act by one person cause you more work or inconvenience.
That is why this forum is so nice, some professional car salesfolks! Who truly care about their products and customers. Which makes it so much more pleasant as they take the vacuum to your wallet!
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
I know it has been mentioned on this forum before that trade ins complicate the deal making process for the salesperson; however if gross profit on the trade can add to your commission dollars it would seem that more emphassis would be made to get that customer to sign the dotted line so money can be made on both.
Any funny stories about how you have stolen a sale from another dealer or gotten revenge against a competing dealer?
JMonroe: Unfortunately I already own a 2006 and 2007 Buick, and won't be in the market for a new Buick anytime soon. Maybe 2010 for a new Enclave or LaCrosse!!! I will keep you updated if I hear anything more about the dealer spat.
LuvmyBuicks
Trade ins mean nothing. A salesman is paid on gross profit on the new car deal - cost - pack. When the trade in is sold, it is a completely separate deal.
You forgot to tell him that this is where the real money is made for a dealership and the salesman who was lucky enough to make that sale.
If you don't tell him I will.
Hey 'luvmybuicks', did you ever count how many used car lots there are (you probably can't count that high). They ain't there to pass out bargains but they don't usually have the prime cars that the dealers keep for themselves. They usually get what the dealers don't want and/or they have too many of already.
But then I've had a guy in the biz tell me they won't turn over a popular car to someone else (no matter how many they have) because these are the money makers and you can't ever make too much money. :surprise:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
It's a natural defense mechanism to say "Just looking" or "we won't be buying till a couple of months"
It takes a professional salesperson to turn you into a buyer and not a shopper.
I would have handled it differently. Open the car for you and show you the features, offer a test drive (most important) and then ask for the sale. This is when the wash comes out. I would even ask you to look at some figures so when you're ready to buy you have an idea at what you're going to be spending. Then I would give you a brochure. Sometimes it amazes me the idiots we have working in this industry.
Mack
I have said it a 100 times, if you shut up and listen the customer will tell you how they want to be sold. A group here wants to be in charge of the sale with all the facts and figures before they arrive. Great, but if a salesperson did not appreciate that and tried to argue with you then you probably would not buy from him, if he lets you go with it then he sold you a car.
But I get your point. A good salesman adapts and closes the sale no matter the technique or effort involved. Fine, I'm a laydown!
Actually, my last two car salesman both lost deals due to the SM/UCM. Car was sold at an agreed upon price, but (me being lazy) my trade was severely lowballed (imho, of course). I felt bad for the salesman, I wanted to buy from each of them, but to me these were not insignificant amounts of $. So, on to the next dealer and again, car at invoice and much better trade in and where do I sign? That's business.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Probably been to 8-9 different dealers and therefore dealt with 8-9 different people. I've yet to find a single one that knows anywhere near as much about the particular vehicle I'm looking at than I do.
Yes, I'm compulsive and I enjoy this, but still....from the guy who spent 5 minutes during our test drive talking about how awesome the Sienna's adaptive cruise control system is (too bad it wasn't ON the vehicle we were driving, only the Limited--and when questioned he said it was on all XLE's--wrong), to the Honda guy who told me that "everyone says the Odyssey is the best---Consumer Reports says its the best van, by far, nothing can touch it for reliability, according to their ratings (am I stupid? Like I haven't looked it up? (The Sienna outscores the Ody in both overall rating and reliability), to the guy who honestly had no idea what Bluetooth even WAS), its reinforced the fact that I will never listen to a salesperson about product advice. All the information is available to the consumer now, and I'm better off just doing my own research.
Then there are these dealers that just make your skin crawl. There's a somewhat notorious one in the DC area that had a particular color that I wanted to look at, so I figured I'd swing by, consequences be damned. Well you drive up, and its like a caricature of the car business--you've got probably a dozen guys wearing bad suits standing out front, smoking, talking on the cellphone, and as soon as we drive in we're literally swarmed with them. I just decided right then and there I'm not dealing with it, and drove right onto the dealer's back lot where the cars were, found the row of Odyssey's, found the color I wanted to see, sat there and looked at it, while a few of the salesguys literally tried to chase us down. When we had a look, I just backed my car up, tried not to run any of them over, and drove away.
Screw it. You think I'll ever buy from THAT place? Not a chance.
Now I know there are exceptions to the rule. I understand that. I also understand that a dealer is not compelled to give or do anything for me. If they think they can sell the car for more than I want to buy it for, than more power to them. I've got a particular price in mind now as a result of a few weeks of this, and I won't be personally offended if nobody will sell me the car for that price. But the difference is that I'm the worst kind of consumer for these guys--I have self discipline (why else would I even be looking at minivans! Ha.) So if I don't get my price, ok, then I'm not going to buy.
I bet sooner or later though, I get my price...we'll see.
I wasn't ready to buy at that point, so I didn't. Now we're in the first third of the new month, and those same dealers of course all want me to buy---at the original quote price.
Why would I do that? Why wouldn't I just wait until the end of the month again? Now, a few of the dealers I spoke with said that they were making a push to make a quota, which of course makes sense. But why do they have to wait until the end of the month to do that? The quota is the quota, whether you sell the car on the 10th or the 30th.
A few of them threaten that they may not be able to do the same deal at the end of this month as they did last month...but I don't buy it. I'm trying to deal on a 2007 model, 2008's are already being shipped, and every dealer I'm looking at still has dozens of the 2007 model still on the lot.
So come on...why would I buy now?
A bit off topic, but where is your dealership? I'm from Newburyport originally, but have been in Seattle for 17 years. Just curious.
Nelson
True at most (especially low end) dealers, but at many high end the new car grosses are the same or higher than used.
Maybe he was new. I never got his name.
If he had done what you said he should, that would be fine. Care to come to Phoenix to sell me a car?
*Low end
*Hyundai
Sorry Jmonroe I couldn't resist
*Hyundai
Sorry Jmonroe I couldn't resist
Don't feel sorry...facts are facts. How could anyone argue with that but just you wait, some day I'll be moving up...to a Ford.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Sooo, what you are saying is, the early bird doesn't always get the worm but the patient bird does.
I know a couple old birds like that myself.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Mack
Told us they only had Sports, and since he didn't know much about the model, he would hand us off to a different salesperson.
Salesperson #2 came, opened the car for us, and left. Didn't ask us a single question, or give us a card. We ended up leaving.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
1. Somebody who is completely convinced he/she wants one product accidently walking into competitor's lot and discovering same features that are important to them could cost thousands more. Not everybody makes tons of research before coming to dealers and good salesperson can make reveal things to those people. products may sell themselves but only if people know about them.
2. Somebody with specific budget who is convinced their credit will not allow for going above certain price point (not everybody knows their credit), and telling the salesperson they want 1995 Xmobil. However, the credit it is not as bad, potentially saving good chunk of interest. Good salesperson looks at their score and makes a switch on the fly and perhaps offer 1998 XMobil w/ leather and sunroof.
3. Somebody "on the edge" - undecided because two products appear to be equal in their mind. Same features, same price, same reliability, etc. He/she cannot be convinced one is so much better than the other - simply won't happen. Good salesperson may find the right pressure point (e.g. some concession that costs little but is important to the customer) and move the product before the other brand does.
It is very arrogant to think we are immune to persuasion and make decisions purely on merit of the products. If it were true, advertising business wouldn't be multibillion dollar industry. Same with face-to-face contact. Sometimes we just want to be convinced, sometimes we need to. Either way a greeter will not do it.
Not to mention we need to gather some information and sales people may be one of the sources - perhaps not the best one (as they have vested interest in selling us something), but with just right amount of self-control on our part they may be helpful - and make some money for themselves, too.
2018 430i Gran Coupe