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Stories from the Sales Frontlines
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Comments
1. You can just pay MSRP, or
2. Ask them how much better than can do off sticker to get it done right now.
People always talk of how great Saturn and Carmax "no-haggle" experience is. Well, truth be told, you can walk into EVERY dealer in the world and pay the sticker. *shrugs*
My guess is there are two types of informed buyers.
1. The one who does his research based on this site and similar sites.
My guess is these "haggling" sessions usually work out pretty good. Either the buyers information is accurate or he will discover something he didn't account for and will buy at a good price.
2. The one who does his research based on what his "neighbor, friend, coworker, mechanic, landscaper, mistress told him" These are the people who will roll over and die if they find out any of those people bought the car for $1 less than they did.
My guess is these haggling sessions are ugly and someone usually leaves the table with a bad taste.
It wasn't a cheap shot, but face it will you do things that put your family at risk just to help me out? I don't think so.
Who says I'm an advocate of either.
The simple fact that the dealer signs your paycheck proves that you are an advocate for the dealer. Your claim that you have the customers best interest at heart is saying you are their advocate. Again you cannot be an advocate for both. Once you are on my payroll and not the dealers I will believe you when you say you have my best interests at heart.
You make it sound like it's a cult to work at a dealership.
Again I don't like the taste of other peoples words in my mouth so please don't put words in my mouth. In no way did I make it sound like its a cult, if you think I did you know absolutely nothing about cults. What I am saying is that you are an employee of the dealership and have a fiduciary duty to be their representative.
If I can't provide a professional service to my customers, while providing for my family, I will simply leave the dealership with you.
I am not saying you can't provide me with professional service, but providing professional service and having the best interest at heart are two different animals. Remember that you still have to provide professional service to the dealership. Now tell me who will reward you most with your professional service? Me who buys a car every 5 years or so and may or may not come back or the dealer who you sell several cars a week for?
Your starting to bore me with the circulars. You earlier opined that my success in the car business is directly proportional to how my dealership perceives me, and I said it had to do with how the customer perceives me.
No circular argument on my part. If the dealership perceives you well you will stay, sell cars and make money, if they don't you will be looking for more work. If I buy a car from you it is not because I perceive you well but because I perceive the deal as good. I can have a good perception of you but a bad perception of the deal I am going to walk. Please show me circular reasoning in that.
Let's go back to my Ferrari analogy. I said if I were to attempt to sell you a Ferrari for $1000 and you didn't like me (ie had a bad perception) you would not buy it...
First off thats a bad example, if anyone offered me a Ferrari for $1,000 all sorts of bells and whistle would be going off. All sorts of questions would be coming into my head such as is it stolen? Whats wrong with it? Is it radioactive? Why is this being sold at a $70K discount? In this case my perception of the deal is bad.
Now let us say that the deal is legit and that there is nothing wrong with the car. You could be Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot all rolled into one I wouldn't care, the deal would be taken. You see my experience with you is small only a few hours compared to the years I would have with the car.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Unless everyone does it those that do will hurt in sales. There is a sizable segment of society that will not buy a car at sticker. Until they are forced to pay sticker they will search out the dealers that will haggle.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I am one that shops price, not payments but price. As for the product If I buy a sludgemobile I buy a sludgemobile regardless of if I buy it at Joes dealership or Sams dealership. As for service I can get warranty work done at any dealership, and all other work done at any mechanic.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Mangers jump you if you don't jump the customer. Customers jump you if you do or don't jump them depending on their mood :sick:
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
However, if you're in the business for the long run, integrity is imparative. No single deal is worth loosing an ounce of your integrity. I have never wanted a deal so bad that I'd do or say something go get it. It's just not worth it in the long run.
If you do the right thing for your customer, you're doing the right thing for your family.
Also, you have the variable of the trade. I know this is a simplistic answer, but it's the tap root of the problem.
Most of the other variables are secondary.
See, you're savvy buyer ... you know in and around what your trade is worth and you'll have a strong idea of what the market is doing - and you've narrowed down your search and you know what you're looking for - it's called research ... you've spent the time and now you know the difference between the "real and the perceived".(Big difference.!)
This is about the person who walks into "any" store and says: "What's your best deal? .... most of these type's have looked up the Nada for their trade and think their $9,500 ABC is worth $12 grand .l.o.l.. and they usually aren't looking for a particular vehicle, they are looking for a particular "price", and they want you to meet it or exceed it .. and when the truth gets known, they are trying to hit a payment, which is fine - but they have to compare apples to apples.
Here's a good example ... I had a guy that wanted this 05 Lexus LS430 that was on the lot, it was maxed, 7k, clean to the bone, just a beauty .... he wanted to trade me for his car and $39 (his car is worth $5,0 on a good day, maybe.!) .. we were miles apart, so we parted ways ....
3 weeks later I see him on the golf course and he's all bragging about this great deal he got on this other 05 and how he clobbered my price, etc .... when we leave, I walk out to the parking lot and he's gotta show everyone how he saved $7,000 .... that would be fine except, this one had 38,000 miles (in one year) not 7k, this one needed new skins, it needed service and brakes and somebody painted the roof and the rear deck with a tooth brush ..... other than that, it was puuuuurfect ..l.o.l...
Did he save $7,000...? ... actually he put himself in the bucket for $15,000 -- he was shopping price, not vehicle ... someone like yourself would have done homework and research and never put themselves in that position, that's the difference.
Terry.
You may have someone that has never looked at a Honda before unlike Snake who knows what he wants when he comes on the lot. Though he does state that he's "just looking."
Seems a bit contradictory if he knows what he wants :confuse:
We have one salesman here..31 years old, never even thought about a college education before and sells 35-40/month as an avg. and makes a little under 200k/year. He works a 5 day week but does stay here about 55-60 hours, two weeks paid vacation plus 3-4 other trips to Atlantis, Grand Cayman, Vegas, etc.
I agree that this isnt the norm but even a decent commissioned salesperson will make "lawyer" or "engineer" money.
In commission sales you make what you are worth, if you want a pay raise it is completely up to you and you alone.
I will say this again, I detest the taste of other peoples words so don't put yours into my mouth. I never said any such thing, nor have I implied it. All I am saying is that the salesman is an employee of the dealership and therefore will put the interest of the dealership (and his job) over my interests.
but the fact is, that some of us have shed other, less well paying jobs such as yours in Accounting, or my degree in Biological Sciences, to sell automobiles, because it blows many conventional jobs away in income, sad though that is.
Three things on this:
1.) I make more in accounting than the average car salesman makes.
2.) How many good jobs are avlaible for someone with a degree in Biological Sciences?
3.) I have enough issues with working evenings and weekends during tax season, I don't want to do it all year round. I rather spend those times with the family.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I would also assume that the more successful you are, the better the percentage/ amount of the split that you can negotiate with the dealer. That's definitely an incentive to strive for production.
I think that it's worthwhile for consumers to put themselves in the dealer's shoes, not so that we increase our purchase prices (I always go for the lowest price that I can get), but to understand how they view the transaction, the business and their careers.
Despite the grief that I give the sellers here, I also do respect the fact that the successful ones can work without a net (no salary) and still prosper. You have to give credit to anyone who goes to work everyday without being quite sure what s/he is going to earn that day, and you can't entirely blame him/her for going for the gold. (That being said, my purchase price is only going to award him the bronze, but I can still respect his efforts to play well for his side of the table.) But the competitiveness helps to explain a lot of what the consumer experiences, whether or not we like it.
Gotta look around, touch, feel, sit in, and such to find out what I want. Its called research.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Couldn't tell you, with two Hyundais with a combined mileage of well over 200k I have been in the service department three times. Once for a free oil change on each car and once to replace an exhaust manifold under warranty after 130k miles.
Compare that to my sisters Toyota that goes into the shop every other week.
FWIW when I took it in they had way more VW's in for repairs (the dealer also sells VW's and Mazdas).
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
There is no negotiation. No exceptions.
Enough already guys.
If you do the right thing for your customer you are essentially looking out for the interests of your dealership, your future, and your family. Long term customer relationships are the key to a successful salesman.
I make more in accounting than the average car salesman makes.
The "average" salesman, yes. Probably about 75% are failures. It's not hard for the average secretary to beat their wages. However, the career salesman is a another issue.
2. I only need one job. But I liked sales pay better.
3. I can get off any night I want, and only work 2 nights until nine anyway. You can always swtich to see your child in extra curricular things. The other 5 days, I either am off at 5:30, or off completely.
Again "doing the right thing" and "having their best interests at heart" are two different things.
However, the career salesman is a another issue.
I am on par, maybe even higher, than the average career car salesman. I know, I have done enough of their taxes
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
You are paying taxes on that benefit I hope.
3. I can get off any night I want, and only work 2 nights until nine anyway.
Most salesmen around here work three weeknights a week, everyone works a full day one day monday through friday and everyone works a full day saturday, by virtue of a bad state law dealerships are closed on Sunday and everyone gets one weekday off.
I still like my non tax season hours better (tax season hours stink big time).
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
1. Car payment
2. Insurance payment.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
50k would be a mediocre salesman not long for the business.
He sounds like a career salesman to me. Am I right sundayoff?
Wrong.
And they don't claim my car as a benefit to me.
If it is a disciminary benefit you have to report it, that is unless you cannot drive it home, you cannot drive it for personal use, and you cannot have access to it when you are not at work. If you drive it home its a taxable benefit. Of course there are rules that the IRS has on this.
I can WRITE off the mileage used on my demo by customers for test drives,
I would love to see you try to explain that one on a tax audit.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I haven't looked at the MSRP of any car I have bought since 1985. Many of us think the MSRP is a meaningless number.
No games, no false promises, no gimics. Our dealer has a 75% retention rate. That's one of the highest in the industry. We're doing the "right thing" for all involved. That's how to run a good business.
I've seen thousands of applications, and most are professional people. You're right. Salesmen are on par with the best of them. : :surprise:
If the Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price is what they say the vehicle should go for.....anything below that is great.
From my perspective as a customer, I much prefer to deal with someone whose next paycheck's size does not depend on being able to sell me their product at the highest price possible.
Since there isn't a thing that you can do about it, why not just have fun with it and pay as little as you can? At this point, the system is such an inherent part of the buying process that it simply cannot be changed. People who take short cuts trying to "avoid the hassle" usually end up paying more, which in my view is an unnecessary trade-off.
Let the other guy pay more than you, and worry about how you can save money for yourself. I figure that only a very small percentage of readers of this forum will even accept what people like me are saying, so things should keep working well enough to our advantage. (Ironically, if everyone shifted gears and followed the lead of professional negotiators, we'd have to change tactics because we would all be too predictable, so it's fortunate that not everyone will listen...)
If you offer $25K OTD over the internet, they may turn you down.
If you walk in with your checkbook and offer that price, I think the sales manager will be more inclined to accept. They hate to see money walk out the door.
There was a whole discussion on how to make me a better online salesman. About two-thirds of the posts were real enlightining before the other third turned into obnoxious arguing.
It was a good read.