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Stories from the Sales Frontlines

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Comments

  • duke23duke23 Member Posts: 488
    driver100 wrote:
    "We once were looking at refrigerators. I saw one that looked pretty good and the price was good. I said I wanted to look around a bit more, this was the first store we came to. He said, "There aren't too many left, I hope we are sold out by the time you come back". He might have meant he hoped he hadn't sold out when we came back. Might have been a guffaw moment. Anyway, his comment didn't impress me and we did not go back! "
    Yea verily, he dost speak too much . What a DA, I wouldn't return either. It is a buyers market and real deals should be expected. If your saleman is good and honest reward him/her and negotiate out all adm . Another couple of days of insanity and then we can start to rebuild. To congress, exactly what part of urgent did you not understand? Don't think you've got a free ride and that this was built into the cards.When the house is on fire you throw the bucket, don't debate who throws the bucket first.
  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    Act in haste, repent at leisure.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,290
    I was referring to net profit, not gross. My original post was that a 3% profit from a single sale was not the same as a 3% annual return on an investment.

    Ah Return on Investment (ROI) has nothing to do with the amount of sales and is a different ball of wax. It is profit (usually net but can be looked at in many different ways) divided by whats invested to create that profit.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Would future profits in service from selling a particular car and any future sales from friends and family of the original customer also be included in the ROI. If so I would guess the possibilities are endless and impossible to really figure.

    I have sold countless families over the years that send me referalls. Hell I am now selling the children of people I sold cars to in the 90's.
  • carhag2000carhag2000 Member Posts: 207
    When do you expect the 2010 fusion to be on dealers lots?

    Not sure when the 2010 Fusion will appear on dealer lots, but if you want to see pictures of it check out;

    2010 Ford Fusion

    Have fun! Looks good, hope Ford is around long enough to make them


    I have sold Hondas, Nissans, and Toyotas for the last 11years ( ok the last 9 have been only Honda and Nissan). And I just got to drive an 08 Fusion SES that we have on our used car lot. I have no idea what I was expecting, but I was very presently surprised! This car was sweet! It i seriously something I would consider if I were lookinbg for a V6 sedan.

    Just my unsoliceted two cents worth...
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 31,964
    RE: Getting Clubbed Over the Head Like A Baby Seal.
    Personally, I wouldn't concern myself too much with that term as it seems you are now doing.

    Sorry Oby if I offended you with the phrase. From now on we could call it GCOHLBS.
    OR
    What is the current phrase that is used that gets the same idea across?

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 31,964
    08 Fusion SES that we have on our used car lot. I have no idea what I was expecting, but I was very presently surprised! This car was sweet! It i seriously something I would consider if I were lookinbg for a V6 sedan.

    I agree. I have a friend that has almost 55,000 miles on his Fusion and he likes it a lot. I have been a passenger and it seems to be a very nice comfortable car, and Ford seems to be pretty reliable these days. It would be difficult to go out and buy a car if you don't know whether they will be around to honor the warranty etc.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 31,964
    The correct terminology is "Return On Sales" or ROS. Its also known as "operating profit margin".

    Return on Revenue (ROR) is net income divided by revenue. So you have to deduct any operating expenses from that $50K profit to get ROR. So if you have $45K in operating expenses then your ROR is 1% (($50,000-$45,000)/$500,000).


    Thank you SW, that is a clear and concise definition. Since you are very good on financials.....if you had a dealership worth a million bucks, would you rather make a go of it at 3% gross profit per car or would you try to sell the business and try to live off the income from that money?
    (I doubt any one would pay you the million bucks today).

    I suppose the point is also, would you sell some cars at 3% gross and try to make it up with others that will gross more? Is there much point in selling a car at 3% gross profit - if it isn't a dog or you were desparate to convert a car into cash?

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    It would be difficult to go out and buy a car if you don't know whether they will be around to honor the warranty

    Fords not going anywhere but up. The car biz runs in cycles and right now we are at the bottom of a cycle.
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 31,964
    Fords not going anywhere but up. The car biz runs in cycles and right now we are at the bottom of a cycle

    I hope you are right. There is serious talk Chrysler won't be able to make it and GM is burning through money faster than they are making it. Possibly the best hope for the Big 3 is to start building or importing their foreign models - which do sell fairly well. Maybe Fords big problem is getting enough extra money for R&D.
    The Big 3 were in trouble before the recession...this won't be easy to get through.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,164
    And you know that how? There were a few good companies in previous cycle that did not make it (both American and worldwide). I don't see any reason why all would have to survive this time around. Not saying Ford will be one of those "out", but it certainly is not totally out of the question.

    And I dont' think the cycle has turned - if anything it will get worse before I will get better.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    What do you expect me to say? We are doomed? I see on a daily basis what we are doing as a Company and I am not even considering jumping ship. I am just looking forward to the day 5 years or so from now when I sell back the $2 stock I bought for $10 or $12 a share :D

    Our problem right now is not product but perception. We are all intelligent people here and know that you belive half of what the media says.

    We make car loans every day to the same caliber of folks we were making them to a year ago. The big difference now is the rate. It is much higher now then it was then. Ford Credit is buying as strong now as they ever have. The difference between us and GMAC is Ford owns FMCC, GM sold off GMAC. We are a captive lender and they are a bank.

    If you want to fix the economy and end the war all in a 6 month period? Blow up the sattellites that transmit for CNN, MSNBC, FOX, and any of the other major news sources that tell us every day that we are all going to be living under a bridge by years end. If you tell people something enough they tend to start believing it.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 22,564
    "...Hell I am now selling the children of people I sold cars to in the 90's..."

    Dang! Are car sales getting that slow? Well, I guess a sale is a sale. ;)

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well look what would YOU do if it was a choice between the kid or the fishing boat?
  • percussionistpercussionist Member Posts: 204
    When I said 3-5% profit, I mean just that. If a car is $20K (actual cost, not MSRP) I would offer between $20.6K and $21K for that car, depending upon my initial dealings with the dealer and the dealer's representative (the sales person).

    With regard to clubbing and baby seals, I am not a subscriber to this plan. It is a total waste of my time. I make my offer, and the dealer can either accept it as is, make a counter offer, or politely tell me to hit the bricks. I can deal with any reaction to my offer. If I were told at multiple dealers that my offer was insufficient, I would rethink this strategy. But the truth is that dealers accept thin deals on new cars for many reasons, including other areas of the dealer that make more profit such as service, parts, used cars, volume bonuses, etc. If they can't afford to do business on the occasional thin deal, they should not accept my offer. (I should note that my offers have always been accepted, and I do not waste time at dealers, so they have more time to sell more cars.)

    Whew - sorry about the long-windedness of this post. Just to clear things up, I am not a business owner. I truly appreciate people who are - many provide necessary goods and services to me and my family. At the end of the day, though, I need to buy a product at a cost that is affordable and realistic to me. My salary is what it is, and since that number is relatively low, I need to be conservative (I do not shop for cars I cannot afford, but why pay more than they are worth, either?)

    Thanks for reading - I appreciate the many points of view here :)
  • dtownfbdtownfb Member Posts: 2,918
    If you want to fix the economy and end the war all in a 6 month period? Blow up the sattellites that transmit for CNN, MSNBC, FOX, and any of the other major news sources that tell us every day that we are all going to be living under a bridge by years end. If you tell people something enough they tend to start believing it.

    Normally I would agree with you my friend but this situation is much deeper than media propaganda. Ford has the products, they just need customers. Maybe they can start a campaign to let folks know, they are lending money.

    Welcome back!
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    I knew you'd be back joel.

    No one escapes the allure of "Satan's Den". :surprise:
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,147
    As far as I'm concerned, several stocks that have fallen simply represent a discount for me - meaning, if the whole of the economy weren't down, these stocks wouldn't be so far down. So I might pick up Ford at a bargain price. I hear they're having an end-of-season sale on stocks :)

    Welcome back, Joel! We really did miss you.

    Jip, I presume you are representing yourself as the Prince of Darkness here?

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
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  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 31,964
    I need to buy a product at a cost that is affordable and realistic to me.

    No need to apologize...you have a valid method for buying a car. Your method of buying is very similar to mine but I do allow for the dealer to make a little more profit....I don't have a huge number of dealerships to choose from and I don't have the time to visit a lot of them. I guess I am a little easier going in negotiations because I know what it is like to own a business and to know that you can sell a lot of product....at a loss, but you won't last too long.

    I also heard it is easier to sell a salesman something than it is other people. They know how selling works and they don't want to cause other sales people too much stress. Another rule is the best tippers are people who have depended on tips at sometime in their life.

    If I had a dealership, you would be welcome to come in and make your offer, but I might have to politely show you the door. ;)

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 31,964
    this situation is much deeper than media propaganda.
    Agree. The media isn't helping and panic isn't helping. But, there are some real problems that have to be solved before people start spending again.

    Ford has the products, they just need customers.
    Ford has some excellent products but I don't know if the public is ready to believe it yet. And, even if the product is good, how do you address the "depreciation" issue? You can resell a Toy or Honda very easily and it depreciates a lot slower.

    I have had many good Fords and they have many fine cars, but I would really have to think about the depreciation factor.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    It's the Hotel California.....You can check out but you can never leave....right Dukester? :)

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    You can resell a Toy or Honda very easily and it depreciates a lot slower.

    I will agree with that to a point on a Honda but any more Toyota is just a Foreign made Domestic. They do the same marketing as the Domestics and are making the same mistakes the Domestics made even after they saw the results
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    Jip, I presume you are representing yourself as the Prince of Darkness here?

    Kirstie, you've been watching too many Halloween monster movies. The "Prince of Darkness" is Dracula... maybe Ozzie Ozbourne. :surprise:

    But, I do recall you and others signing off as "Evil Host" before... so the "Satan's Den" reference may be an appropriate one. :P
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    >Ford has some excellent products but I don't know if the public is ready to believe it yet. And, even if the product is good, how do you address the "depreciation" issue? You can resell a Toy or Honda very easily and it depreciates a lot slower.

    Isn't that a myth?

    Most websites calculate depreciation based upon MSRP.
    While Honda may sell quite a few of it's products at MSRP, Ford products always have a lot of special discount, s-plan, x-plan, etc that is never considered. These websites are never able to account for those in their calculation, as also they cannot take into account the opportunity value the cash represents that you have left in your hand during initial purchase which was 5K less than a Honda. In 5 years, that 5K can possibly become 10K, if invested properly, easily offsetting the marginal difference in depreciation during a 5 year period between a Honda and a Ford.
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    Everyone here knew this was going to happen…I went and took a look at the Genesis over the weekend. It is a very nice machine and the interior is, as one poster described it, “fantastic”.

    A little tale about the viewing:

    Son #1 (car geek) asked us if we wanted to watch his two sons last soccer games and then come over to his place to watch the Penn State game later with Son #2 and his two kids (both got their under graduate from that place). Since I already put a wing onto one of those buildings up there, I figured they owed me some enjoyment, not my sons, the school. Soooo, I decided to take the route to the soccer game that made me go by the Hyundai dealer, just trying to save some gas.

    Being the observant wife that she is Mrs.jmonroe asked, “why are we going this way”, I had to tell her, she was going to find out in a couple of minutes anyway. In her own little way of reasoning she asked if there was something wrong with me since she knows we keep cars longer than the 3 and 4 years of the ones we have now. I tell her, “I’m just looking” and that she can wait in the car while I take a quick look and get a brochure if she doesn’t want to take a peek. She says, “OK you can look at it” (mighty big of her) and I go it alone. The salesman isn’t pushy, I tell him the situation, (BTW, the guy I bought from in 05’ ain’t even there anymore) we talk about 5 minutes, I get the brochure and we’re on our way, painless. After the soccer game my son and I had the following discussion at his place:

    Me: I took a look at the Genesis before we went to the game, look at this brochure.

    Son: I knew you were going to do that. What took you so long? I’ve read a good bit about that car and it sounds like Hyundai got everything right about it except for not starting a luxury division like Honda, Toyota and Nissan did when they decided to go upscale. They’ll never get the buyers they’re looking for by not doing that. People just won’t get over gagging with the Hyundai name on it.

    Me: I know but I don’t care about that kind of stuff. All I care about is if it’s worth what it costs and from what I see it is. The one I would be interested in is the V6 that goes for 35K MSRP but the one I just saw was the V8 that goes for 42K MSRP.

    Son: That’s the one you should be looking at if you’re really interested. That car is all about luxury, rear wheel drive and HP. Don’t go half way with the 6 CYL.

    Me: The one I saw is the top of the line; it has everything on it, front and rear parking sensors, rain sensing wipers, Nav, a stereo with more HP than some cars and all that kind of stuff.

    Son: Yeah, and why do you think they have that one…because that’s the one people should buy if they get that car. Like I said, don’t go half way. It’s probably well worth the 42K MSRP with all those options, compared to other makes, and you know you can get it for a little less than that.

    Guess who walks into the room?

    ?: Why are you guys talking about cars? We don’t need one and if he gets that car, I’m getting a new…(you know what was said) :cry:

    Then ? walks out of the room.

    Me: Well, I knew that was coming. Do you think that car is worth over 50K.

    Son: Not with That name on it. Now, let me ask you something, do you really think you otta be spending your grand children’s inheritance like that? :sick:

    Just want an opinion or two.

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    Just want an opinion or two.

    I think your son wasn't being honest. He really doesn't want you spending his inheritance. :P

    I say go ahead and buy the Mother Hyundai of all Hyundais... I'm sure you have your mattress and pillow stuffed with cash. But, surprise your wife with the dining room suit first. It will make your Hyundai purchase much more enjoyable... if you know what I mean.

    As an added bonus, if you try the "Jipst Method" of car buying, we're sure to get some good disgruntled salesperson sales stories here. :blush:
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • greanpea68greanpea68 Member Posts: 1,996
    Warning if you are easily offended, go away, far far away.

    Thanks Duke....

    I needed a laugh today. That scene goes through my head a couple of times a week. It is what it is...

    I swear when people walk into a dealership they must think we are hourly employees :cry:

    Ahhh never mind I am not going to start ranting today :sick:

    GP
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    j - here is my opinion, for what it's worth ---

    First, don't let anybody tell you what to do with your money. "Grandchildren's inheritance", indeed! It's your money and you should be able to spend it however you wish.

    If you and ? decide that you want to buy a new car that costs $40K, that's fine. You only live once.

    Several years ago, my folks (well, my mom) decided she wanted one more new car in her life - the last new car they had bought was in 1973. So, they took out a reverse mortgage and bought a 2003 Hyundai Sonata GLS V6. I think it might have 20K on the odometer now. That's my inheritance they're spending, but I have no problem with it. Whatever is left over after they're gone is divided up between me, my sister, and the four grandchildren. I want them to spend a little money to be happy. I'm not expecting anything, though I know there will be a little something.

    Second, I think Hyundai has a potential winner on it's hands, much like the original LS400 Lexus introduced in 1990. It may take a few years for the market to realize what a bargain the Genesis is, especially when the expected discounts start to occur.

    Bottom line - do what makes you happy - and if you have to buy a $12K dining room set to make Mrs. Jmonroe happy, then do it! (as long as the $40K car and the $12K dining room set don't impact your day to day finances, which I suspect they wouldn't)
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,164
    I think that Ford DOES indeed have best product for years, definitely best of all domestics. Their problems is not poor quality perception - this could be overcome over time. Their (and other domestics) biggest problems are structural: terrible shape of finances, terrible labor cost and even worse business model: supply driven, inflexible, and addicted to "firesale". They have too many divisions (e.g. there is no justification existence for Mercury, perhaps except that hottie we can watch in their commercials), too many dealers, too many "wrong" models (by wrong I mean unwanted by the market - not necessarily bad quality).

    Bottom line - their biggest threat is they may simply run out of cash and time before getting a chance for their new and better product to work out. The only good thing is everybody else is hurting, too - so their demise is not inevitable as others may be first.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    Observations:

    I agree about Mercury, to me it's s slightly upscale line of Ford cars and SUVs, but not something that should warrant a division of it's own. I don't know i'm not a Ford product planner, maybe they can justify the division with the current number of sales.

    As for the rest of their lineup, I think the Fusion is a nice car, the trucks, the SUVs are decent, but the Edge, I think they missed their mark, on a bloated and overpriced limited use SUV. The Flex, .....I don't know, wife thinks it's nice, I don't care for it's looks, it's nothing revolutionary. Thats what Ford needs now, something revolutionary like a Taurus from the 80s.

    But then I shouldn't judge. I sell Chryslers. Although I learned to love the products, there's some room for product trimming too in our lineup.

    And no, just because some of us sell slower moving products, or our parent companies face challenges, it doesn't mean we have to admit defeat.

    Car business is all about staying positive.

    If every car salesperson ever had a negative attitude about car sales, then we'd still be riding horse and buggies :surprise:

    What's going to happen now is that the market will go through some changes, maybe some mergers, trimmings, maybe production revolutions (built-to-order within 1 week instead of 3 months, who knows?).

    Maybe the way cars are being sold will change too. Virtual reality test drive boutiques, and then order directly from manufacturers (like Dell.com?).

    Maybe the way we drive will change too due to environmental concerns, road taxes, or insurance.

    Who knows if in 10 years we'll be buying driving plans, like cell phone plans?

    Suburb to City 3 year plan, allowable mileage is XX per day, no startup fees, up to 2 drivers, up to 4 free accidents, 50 Gallons of gas/month and with this plan you can choose from Sport SludgeMobile XL, Sludge-O-Van GL, or Truck Sludge-O-Matic BL.
    Payment is $1200.month, and includes gas, insurance, car payment. You can renew your plan later at a large discount, or be eligible for upgrades SludgeMobile if you extend your contract.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 22,564
    "...Just want an opinion or two..."

    OK, here's what you do. Sneak out and buy the car you want, get the V-8, all the bells and whistles, anything you like. On the way home stop off at Home Depot and buy a cheap card table and some folding chairs.

    Drive home, park in the driveway and unload the table and chairs. Make a lot of noise bringing them into the house. This will attract your wife's attention.

    When she looks out at the new car and asks "What the heck is this?" you pretend she is asking about the cheap furniture and proclaim "You said I could get the car if you got your furniture. Aren't these the ones you were looking at?"

    Then proceed to show her all the "special" features that you got on the car "just for her". Before she can say another word ask "What's for dinner?" and walk away.

    No matter what she says after this simply respond "But I got it for you, why aren't you happy?"

    You may have to endure a few weeks of "Stupid Men" comments but what do you care, you got your new wheels. ;)

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 31,964
    do you really think you otta be spending your grand children’s inheritance like that?

    I don't understand this concept of inheritance. We are going to spend every last penny we have before we go. Children can fend for themselves...they've been given the tools to do it.
    By the V8 - with everything, you'll love it.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 31,964
    (e.g. there is no justification existence for Mercury, perhaps except that hottie we can watch in their commercials),

    You mean, you are not going to put Mercury on your list?

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    You mean, you are not going to put Mercury on your list?

    Wish I could. The Lincoln/Mercury dealership closed its doors two months ago. Rumor has it that an Acura dealer will acquire it. For now though, the doors and windows are dark, the lot empty, and no seals to be found.
  • hammerheadhammerhead Member Posts: 907
    Cheer up bucka-roo I've got some good news. Seems they did a study on how much pan-handlers make and found that they average TWICE the average worker's $19 per hour. I bet that's more than the average car salesman makes (I know it's more than the average farmer makes).

    The study was done in Spokane out near Isell so if times get tough we can all bunk with him while we build up a sucker...err...customer base.


    Prime spot 2 miles from me - I-90 exit 291B (Sullivan Rd.) One at the top of the off-ramps every day. They camp out in the woods nearby, shop at the Wal-Mart just around the corner.

    Isell is about 280 miles west of here - would be a long commute.

    Cheers!
    Paul
  • dtownfbdtownfb Member Posts: 2,918
    You are assumin quite a bit like all Fords are sold below invoice and have rebates. Also you assuming that all Hondas are sold at MSRP. Remember all those rebates kill the resale value.

    It pretty widely recognized that Honda has the best resale value of the major US manufacturuers. Maintaining a high resale value is intentional and integral to Honda's business model. This is why you don't see Honda do manufacturer to consumer rebates.
  • kiawahkiawah Member Posts: 3,666
    Then proceed to show her all the "special" features that you got on the car "just for her". Before she can say another word ask "What's for dinner?" and walk away.

    Knowing the reputation of Mrs J Monroe........J will be walking far far far away.
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 31,964
    Watch for this happening in the U.S. soon...just saw it on the news. Since the value of undesireable lease trade ins has brought the value of the cars down, dealers are charging for extra repairs. Lady takes her off lease Dodge Caravan and is charged over $4,000 for wear and tear. This is a growing problem. Sometimes they don't tell you about the costs until weeks later when you get a letter in the mail.

    They advise you take your lease vehicle in a month before and get it appraised, if it doesn't sound right take it to an independent appraisal service.

    Leases made up 50% of all car sales and now they are only 20%.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 31,964
    You are assumin quite a bit like all Fords are sold below invoice and have rebates. Also you assuming that all Hondas are sold at MSRP.

    Right...no matter what you pay your big 3 car will be worth half a year from now. It will take just over 3 years for a Toyota or Honda to reach that level....and the Big 3 car won't be as easy to sell!

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • duke23duke23 Member Posts: 488
    Wow, it's actually getting fun again. Say's I, who walks in with the knot in his stomach which has transferred to the shoulders by the afternoon.
    joel0622 wrote :
    " I have sold countless families over the years that send me referalls. Hell I am now selling the children of people I sold cars to in the 90's. "
    They really propagate don't they? Viva Viagra.
    My dry humor aside, when people trust you they send not only their close family but the extended nuclear as well.
  • duke23duke23 Member Posts: 488
    joel0622 wrote:
    "What do you expect me to say? We are doomed? I see on a daily basis what we are doing as a Company and I am not even considering jumping ship. I am just looking forward to the day 5 years or so from now when I sell back the $2 stock I bought for $10 or $12 a share "
    This is a sensitive subject so I' ll approach it with care. I think Ford will survive because of the TARP (troubled assets). To be fair if we are bailing out the poorest logic among banks should not auto finance claim equal rank? Poor Ford has been horribly mismanaged. From Nasser and quality is job one; memo ; never get into a pissing match with Firestone when obviously it wasn't. To Billy C product of a nice Grosse Pointe prep school but better equipped to collect a salary from the endowment fund. My sorrow for the lack of management depth.
    Alan, you've got your work cut out for you. The fed will accomodate. Merge quickly.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,290
    Would future profits in service from selling a particular car and any future sales from friends and family of the original customer also be included in the ROI.

    No only actual profits in the time frame being considered.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Nasser

    Amazing how that name still gets me hot under the collar. That was probably one of the worst mismanaged things in the history of the business world.
  • canadiantoyotacanadiantoyota Member Posts: 148
    :P You are correct... we Canadians do indeed club baby seals. In reality we will club anything! We have to.. we aren't allowed to own guns. Our car salespersons will occassionally club a customer, but that is only if no one is looking. :sick:
  • sky23213sky23213 Member Posts: 300
    I thought it would be interesting to share my last Saturday's visits to a couple of lots. I had actually designated the day to go and do car maintenance on both vehicles. Saturday was to be a beautiful day (for late October in MN). My first appointment was at a Honda dealer for regular maintenance on our 2005 CR-V. Not many people early at showroom opening, four cars lined up for service though (which makes sense, apparently I'm not the only person happy with their service dept). What was interesting, on the service side of things, was that they had an additional procedure implemented. After the work performed they used to come and explain all that was done and what might need to be done. Now the service advisor was doing a 5-point check list confirming that the customer understood what was done, that all had been explained to him, etc. Weird, but makes sense in ligth of what I've read here - people coming back and complaining that this and that was not explained/clarified and lead to car troubles; then trying to get free stuff or free service.

    The afternoon was set aside for the other car - a 2001 Galant with 140K. That was the car that we thought of replacing, but decided against it since my commute dropped significantly and the darn thing keeps running great. We made a financially practical decision, although we could have gotten a great deal on most the vehicles considered. Oh, well, the good thing is that this good financial judgment has put us in a position to be able to get anything new if we'd like...
    So, I have about an hour to kill so I had planned to look at two of the vehicles that we considered - the Galant Ralliart and the Outlander.
    The dealership (a Mazda/Mitsubishi) looked moderately busy - not hopping with people, but no idle sales people chatting either. I headed through the Mitsubishi part of the dealership. There was a nice man at one of the desks, so I asked where are the Ralliarts, and (following the advice here) informed him that I'm waiting in service and just wanted to take a peak at the cars since the Ralliart is on our list for next year. He started explaining where they are, but then said he'd be happy to walk with me. We chatted a bit about credit, sales and such. He made sure to mention the huge 2K Loyalty Rebate on the Galant, but otherwise no pressure. I said I'd look at the Outlander too. He offered to unlock it so I can get a better feel. I said that I did not want to take him away from customers on a busy Saturday, especially since I'm not buying anytime soon. That made him very appreciative of my concern for his time; he confirmed that, yes they were actually busy (he was with a client 10 min later), but just because I value his time he would be happy to show me the Outlander. I liked it, we still need to drive it though, but that would be closer to purchase when we had further narrowed down the possible models. He gave me a card, said that he'd be happy to see us anytime we feel like test driving regardless of the purchase time. At one point we got talking about accessories, and I guess he saw the opportunity to praise some mop'n glow miracle (some rep did a demo actually setting a hood on fire then showing how no harm was done to the paint), but that was perfectly fine, it was part of the conversation.
    He'll be definitely the man I'll look up in the future. Out of the four Mitsu dealers in the Twin Cities area two are permanently scratched, and the other one is kind of far. Plus this one is part of a family of dealerships that has a pretty good reputation (Luther). I got the CR-V from their Honda dealership - very pleasant buying experience. Also the service dept at this one has had the same advisors since I started going there (about 4 years) and has never tried to push any unnecessary repairs (on a 7 year old miled-up Galant nonetheless).
    I believe I did well as far as buyer's etiquette is concerned, I tried to follow the advice of the sales people on this board.
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    >I don't understand this concept of inheritance. We are going to spend every last penny we have before we go. Children can fend for themselves...they've been given the tools to do it.

    Ditto....

    The deserving kids don't need the money as they can earn the money they deserve.
    The undeserving ones don't need the money as they are sure to blow it away even before you start to rot in your grave.
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    >(e.g. there is no justification existence for Mercury, perhaps except that hottie we can watch in their commercials),
    >You mean, you are not going to put Mercury on your list?

    Is that her name? I need to put her on my list :P ;) :sick:
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    Lady takes her off lease Dodge Caravan and is charged over $4,000 for wear and tear.

    Sounds shocking I've seen some bad off leases. I have seen raggeddy beat up off lease cars that looked like a garbage truck dumped their load into through the sunroof, or looked like they've been involved in a high pursuit. That is beyond normal wear and tear.

    If you don't see yoursefl washing and vacuuming your car at least once a year then a lease is NOT for you.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    >Maintaining a high resale value is intentional and integral to Honda's business model. This is why you don't see Honda do manufacturer to consumer rebates.

    >Also you assuming that all Hondas are sold at MSRP. Remember all those rebates kill the resale value.

    I am not assuming anything. It is the people who calculate depreciation assume that.

    Either ways, if you calculate depreciation based upon what you paid, then there is not much of a problem.

    A 2003 Honda Accord EX-L would have cost something like 26K+TTL

    With the Honda, this is the price you mot likely would have paid in 2003, roughly 28K incl TTL.

    in 2008, the Retail price in excellent condition is $14,280

    A 2003 Mazda6s w/Leather would have cost about 21K + TTL.
    If you knew this product, you would realize that there were about $2500 worth of rebates on this car. Therefore your actual paid price would be 20K incl TTL.

    in 2008, the Retail price in excellent condition is $11,540

    There is a difference of about 8K in 2003 price paid. Over 5 years and 75K miles, the difference in depreciated value is going to be about 5K between the two cars. Of course, you will get more dollars back which is what most people will talk about.

    Smart alec: "I got 15K for a 2003 Honda :shades: "
    Lackey of smart alec: "I got only 11K for my 2003 car. Resale value sucks :sick: "
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    Last week I get a phone call from a customer.

    He called 2 local dealers prior asking about an advertised cash price special on a loaded truck. Both dealers didn't know what he was talking about, and couldn't tell him if they had it in stock because......they didn't know what he was talking about. Not only that they tried to sell him on something completely different......

    Frustrated, he calls us (me). Asks me same thing, and I pull out the ad (I keep photocopies of all current advertised specials for Chrysler in my binder). I acknowledge what he's asking for and tell him I have one in stock. In fact, because he was agitated already I go out on the lot and stand beside my in stock unit and tell him it's available, just to make sure.

    He says he'll be in that afternoon. He comes in, we drive the truck, he likes it, and likes the ad price, and puts a dip on it. We get the color he wants 2 days later, he comes in an takes delivery.

    The test drive took 15 minutes, the transaction took another 10, and the delivery 2 days later not more than 20 minutes.

    Straight forward, no bs, advertised price, same equipmentas advertised, no surprises from the seller or dealer (not that we do anyways). Cash deal no trade.

    For fast and straightforward service he gives me a $100 cash tip. :D

    Moral of the story:

    Be aware of all current advertised specials and corresponding inventory. He passed about 3-4 dealers on the way to us that could have earned his business, but because of poor phone skills and/or unknowledgeable staff at those dealers we gained a deal and a customer!

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

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