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Comments
Sorry to hear the Acura dealer wouldn't give you a better trade. $3700 is a big chuck of change. I just bought the base MDX and I can feel for you. I didn't trade so I didn't have that problem.
$33505 for the V6 AWD Limited with leather and 6-disk CD. That's $900 more than I paid for my MDX. (I assume your price includes dest. as do mine) I don't have the 6-disc (non-touring) but as you've said, the MDX has a few more things that the Highlander doesn't have. But of all the things I didn't like was the pass-thru (read, no center console) setup.
{Note: to grplavloff - I don't fear the different. It's simply missing! And my briefcase fits fine in the rear or next to me. But were do you put the thousand little things that use to go into the center console? - On your lap?) The MDX center console is huge, feels great as an armrest, has 4 cup holders and is the front end of the AC/Heat system for the 2nd role, which BTW, the highlander doesn't have. There is also a power outlet for cell phones and a place to put it}
And this is for Cliffy,
I know you sell Toyotas so I am sure you love the Highlander, no matter what it cost and how it looks. But unless the Highlander comes with some discounts from MSRP and loose the port add-ons(I live in Texas so I get the Gulf States Toyota crab) it's over priced and not as much of a value as the Acura MDX. As stated before, my wife is a loyal Toyota nut and would have waited to buy the Highlander. But that MDX was just too good to pass up even at MSRP, but I was able to get a little discount and some freebies.
P.S. Panzer, sorry to hear your Highlander don't have side airbags, that would be a deal killer for me. For me, all safety equipement available for that vehicle must be on mine. Yes, MDX doesn't have VSC but you can't win them all.
Question for all, someone said the Highlander V6's performance was comparable to Tribute V6? If that's true, then I'm REALLY glad I didn't buy the Highlander. I test drove a V6 Tribute and it's not close to the MDX. My seat of the pants judgement is backed by MotorTrend test numbers also.
Tonychrys, you said it! To compare the Touring model MDX to a fully loaded Highlander is simply cheating. The features on the Touring blow away anything on the loaded Highlander.
As for the 3rd seats, I view them as options. I have the option to hold more than 5 people but not have a mini-van. It is tight back there but it's a legit seat that is more comfortable than most backseats of coupes. Most smaller adults and kids can sit in fine. If you're 6 feet and try to sqeeze in there, than you're nuts.
I believe that the HL will be discounted at a faster rate than the MDX, and the prices will eventually settle down where they belong. Alternately, Toyota will eventually realize that more of their customers will buy in the $27-30K range, and equip their units accorndingly. That would be the time when people will stop comparing the two. These are two excellent vehicles built for different niches, and it's futile to argue about price comparisons when maybe only 10% (maybe less) of the HLs will be configured to remotely compete with the MDX and the RX.
As I've posted above, THERE ARE people who will see a fully loaded HL as better than an RX or MDX. Let them get it their way.
So, don't be so sure Honda will be bought out. To do so would jeopardize its "independant, never sold-out" image. The company is in fine financial shape and worth a ton of money, so if it does allow itself to be purchased, it will do so on its terms only.
I still think the Outback H-6 will out-handle it, and is perhaps a bit more fun to drive. Other than that, the Highlander is a terrific vehicle. I'm hoping that Subaru will lower the H-6's MSRP, once Highlanders become more plentiful.
I like having a full-size spare, and the 3500# towing capacity, which the Highlander offers.
Bob
Honestly, it is going to take a while to see how things shake out with the Highlander. Right now, we have a 4x4 V6 without the Limited package or the roof and it is priced at about $29500. I haven't looked up the invoice so I don't know how much could theoretically be discounted in the future. I do know that with the VSC, side bags, leather and everything else you can stuff onto it, the MSRP is just over $35000 and the invoice is just over $31000. Probably by this time next you you will be able to pick one up in the mid $32K range. I doubt we will be this low for quite some time though but I have been wrong before.
Also, if you don't get the optional tow package, what's it rated to tow?
Finally, what's the roof rack load capacity?
Bob
Jack
But take a step back, not all highlanders are going to be loaded to the gills. Nor could Lexus or Acura be stripped to the base price of the Toyota Highlander. I think that's the market that Highlander fills nicely. And when Toyota bump up the production on the Highlander, the price will most likely drop off from the MSRP.
If the compact SUV isn't enough for you, but you don't have $35K to toss around (consider how bad the stocks are doing), and you don't want a truck based SUV or an disguised Isuzu, Highlander is the SUV.
Bob
BTW, did you check on the roof rack load limit? I hope it's more than the paltry 75# rating of the RX 300's roof rack.
Bob
Since you live in MD, you should make a trip down to Springield before you purchase one. The number here is 703-451-0300 and my e-mail is sclifford@kjtoyota.com
Sure you can try to get a waiver, but it happens very rarely and is like trying to pull teeth.
I hope to see both the Highlander and the Liberty at the Baltimore Auto Show this weekend.
Have to be honest with you, even though I liked the Highlander, I'm pretty much a died-in-the-wool Subaru kind of guy. Their new 2002 227HP Impreza WRX has really got me drooling...
Opps! Wrong forum.
Bob
When you go to register your car there, you'll be asked a bunch of questions, fill out 10 forms or so and then pray upon the gods that they don't make you pay the fee. Yes, the fee is based oin MD tax, but from what I have heard there are other fees that can be applied to your registration.
I came to MD from Ohio and they still charged me the fee.
An RX 300 without leather and no roof and no cd Changer can be had for same price in theory (would have to special order). Regardless, these are no raging bargains. They do look OK to me. Once discounted 2-3000 they will be very competitive and provide those looking in the 25-30k range an nice SUV choice.
INKY
I think Highlander is an attempt by Toyota to hold it's own against these new softer riding midsize SUV's.
Yes, I'm sure it will take some customers away from those new vehicles, just as it will take some 4-Runner customers. Toyota is just not after the hardcore off-roader with this vehicle.
Bob
Toyota undoubtedly has another hit on their hands and some people will run out and pay whatever dealers ask because they are Toyota freaks. But you Toyota dealers are going to have to just get over the FACT that the vehicle is expensive. I just saw my first one and the dealer was asking $35850. The Toyota MSRP was $35050 and there were $800 worth of port add-ons!!
No doubt some people will pay that much for a Highlander, but that pricing does not offer very good value! Loaded Highlanders will MSRP in the low to mid $30s especially with valuable safety options added on. As has been repeatedly pointed out the competition is fierce at this price level.
Bob
As has been well documented elsewhere 90+% of all SUVs never leave the road. And the overwhelming majority of those that do are on tame backroads to and from the campsite.
Yes SUV are very popular today because people love these STREET UTILITY VEHICLES (todays TRUE SUV!!). Toyota knows full well what it is doing. It is giving the public what it craves in a vehicle.
Yes, Toyota certainly knows what they're doing. I'm not disputing that. But they do offer the 4-Runner and Land Cruiser for those who are hard-core, or at least go beyond a gravel driveway. As I said, the Highlander is for a different audience.
No need to get bent out of shape over this.
Bob
Is there similar animal to the GM North star System animal, where by if I lock my keys in my Highlander and not my cell phone, I can call a central dispatch to unlock my Highlander by satalite?
Hoping to see the Highlander at the auto show by the end of the month to compare to MDX and RX300.
Best Wishes
Michael
It is bascially a "learning remote" that will allow you to activate other remotely controlled systems such as a garage door opener, security, and home lighting. It is "rolling code" compatible so it should work with the new generation of secure garage openers.
In terms of really cool things you could do with the Homelink, go to www.x10.com
TC
http://www.toyota.com/html/shop/vehicles/highlander/index.html .
Great exterior picture in Super White with two bicycles looks like a mini Navigator! It is awesome looking with its solid color, including the white mudguard. (I'm still apprehensive about the headlights though).
I used its menu and compared Highlander V6 4x2 to 4Runner SR5 4x2. MSRP was $25,095 for Highlander and $26,335 for the 4Runner. Yes lots of optional equipment is the Toyota's game but it appears that 4Runner has few more standard features. With the heavy discounts that offered on the 4Runners, it may be a while until Highlander can actually be purchased for less than the 4Runner. Try out the menu for yourself.
Subaru is a very good car. I loved its 94-97 SVX. The new Impreza WRX sounds impressive. However, its stationwagon (Outback and the Forester) aren't the best looking cars it the world. Yes, they are very good and reliable cars (hair or two from Honda/Toyota) but if they can make it better looking, (Remember Ford Mustangs in the early 90s?) they would substantially increase in sales.
Escape/Tribute are thinking right with its V6, except that little thing called reliability. For can't afford MSRP me, probably another 6 to 12 months before trying to acquire the Highlander. If Honda CR-V tilted its steering wheel more (currently it's like driving a bus) and drop the Accord's V6 engine, for couple thousand more. . .
The Highlander is most definitely a true SUV. The kind of true SUV 90+% of all people want today - a STREET UTILITY VEHICLE. The old style truck based SUVs of old are a dying breed.
Moonroof with shade,
Duo Climate Controls,
5sp Automatic transmission,
Power Heated Front Seats,
Leather,
Fog lamps,
7 Passager Seating,
Side Airbags,
Theater interior lighting,
17" Tires,
Better 4WD system according to James Healey of USA Today,
Better sound system,
Bigger engine,
Trip Computer,
Compass,
Outside Temperature Gauge,
Better Warranty,
Acura Name.
Looks like I have to wait for a while until HL price drops couple grands. My friend was able to buy a 2000 Camry last December for $100 over invoice. I hope after couple years HL can fall to that level but I doubt I can wait that long.
I am 5'11 and the Highlander doesn't even come up to my eyes. I think it much be somewhere near 65" at its peak. Combine that with being very wide, and the cruck (My name for a car-truck hybrid)looks odd. I mean, honesty it looks a bit like the new Suzuki!
Second, the vehicle is not made for any sort of off-roading. As the salesman said to me "It's not meant for off-roading at all. Its meant to carry you, your three kids, and their strollers."
Third, the price...The one I looked at was a Limited, no leather, no sunroof, and what looked like a simple CD player. The price? $32,500. Sheesh!!
Finally, the instrument cluster was way too small and the dash sloped away from the driver. Just like a mini-van!
More realistically, the Highlander is a tall wagon, but that doesn't make it a bad car, just not the one for me. I'll take a pass on this one and keep looking.
I climbed around a Highlander today - it had just come in, so it was in the shop - and I would say that it really comes close to being a largish Forester, a tall station wagon. The driver's seat was good, tho it would have been nice if the steering wheel could be tilted up higher, since my legs tended to push into it, something that I encounter often in smaller cars. The back seat was quite comfortable and roomy, especially considering that this is a smallish vehicle. And everything looked neat & tidy construction-wise. The MSRP was $30.something K for a model that did not seem to have very much on/in it. A Sienna at the $28-30K price point seems to be a much, much better deal: a heck of a lot more room, a better ride (based on what reviewers have said), and better materials. It's hard to believe that we Americans aren't grossly overpaying for SUVs.
My 4WDs "Limiteds" in V6 with the exact same features is $33475.
--Dianne
dianne@earthlink.net
I am in Baltimore, Md and the dealership was in Cockeysville, just north of the city. The guy said "Well, most dealers will charge you sticker plus a mark-up, but not us." Uh huh, seems like they might be doing that via some regional increase maybe?
I asked if they were discounting the Sequoia yet and the salesman said "Hell, no, we charge as much as we can for them and those bad-boys sell."
Now that I thnk about it, I do belive the price was $32,046...As I said, no leather, moonroof, or add-ons that I could see...
And, I agree JBlaze, the Highlander is indeed a small mini-van/tall wagon with big tires.
If go off-road *is* important, than appearance does not really matter.
If go off-road is *not* important, than what SUV apparence can do for your?
I am confused.
There are still a good ratio of folks who avoid the Lexus dealers for two specific reasons: they do not like the roundness/ovate shape of the RX and they aren't emotionally "upscale" in the sense that they prefer the meat and potatoes of Toyota ways. I still have a ton of clientele who thinks every Lexus is $50,000 and up. Or, they have eben to a Lexus dealership and got scared off by "high-falutin" ways and salespeople pointing to full sticker and insisting they pay it on every product there.
I am, and have been for some time, on the fence about my own car decisions. I bought a new Echo to commute in last year when gas pricing went nuts ($1.80 to $2 a gallon here last Spring) and it's been a wonderful little car -- 42 mpg, zippy, and very reliable. Matter of fact, I have put almost 30k miles on it in 10 months' time with my killer commute to work 6 days a week and running my three kids around when I can. We also own a much-despised 97 Ford Explorer, so I can say I made a wonderfully good investment in the $12000 Echo last year) and a horrible investment in the 97 Exploder when I bought it a year old too cheap to pass up. Hindsight being what it is, no great deal would have been worth the mechanical grief that Explorer's put me thru.
Now, I stand at the precipice of "the decision": what to buy next for my "other" car. I bought the Echo to use for commute, and the Exploder's on its way out. My better half has been insistent on the PT Cruiser since we all saw it at the Long Beach Grand Prix showroom last spring, and our order-built car is going to land this next week. Waiting for that car has been keeping me from purchasing my own "fun" car, but now that it's almost here, I am on the market again. I am still 99% sure that I want the Solara SLE convertible in pearl white with tan leather, tan top. But, a few months back, I went to my local Lexus dealer on a Sunday to look at 2 cars that interested me: the little IS300 (?)and the GS300. Mind you, I am easy to get along with, and planned with every breath in me to deal with them locally, certain they'd be reasonable, and easy to work with once they knew who I was in the sense that I am NOT your average housewife and I am perfectly willing to let them make a reasonable profit for a fast transaction, already pre-approved at my own credit union.
Know what? Once I gently began to talk turkey with the guy about pricing, finding me a non-Navigational system car (it's $6000 on the window sticker!! =:o) and offering a fair profit to them for a deal (and I was in the thousands, mind you, not in the hundreds) he scoffed and acted like I was insulting him. The more I pushed to find out what was possible off the MSRP, the more he wanted to literally get rid of me, but not before insisting that they needed to "check my credit" before starting any negotiations.
I'm telling you, I was so sold on that GS300 in the light silver-spruce blue gray color with tan leather, I would have walked off with it if the price had been decent enough...at the risk of the big fight at home! My information was based on my own Edmunds research and confirmation of a friend who works with a Lexus/Toyota store in another part of CA.
The Lexus guy's attitude made me shy of going to any other Lexus dealer elsewhere, frankly, and I put myself back into the holding pattern after that experience. I don't know how many folks used to dealing with Toyota stores might have had the same experience and decided that the Lexus "showroom" experience was too uppity. And, no matter what ANYONE was driving, Ford or Echo or even our 3rd car, the 92 Prelude, I wouldn't ever make someone jump thru hoops with a credit check when they were standing before me offering cash for the car and a credit union pre-approval letter for $40,000.
It's good that we did bring the Highlander out, because it does fill a niche for Toyota. We needed a large wagon that isn't a minivan, and isn't trucky like the SUVs are. And, blessed be that they are $25000 to $32000 for us, with a scant few in the $35000 neighborhood due to VERY extreme overload of extras in 4WDs.
-Di
Of course, the other side of your coin is one reason for Lexus' success to begin with -- many customers complained to Toyota about the sales/service process, and Toyota wisely created a premium brand and separated it from the main product. Classic product flanking and positioning strategy, and backed by real differences valued by a sizeable audience.
Where I live, there is a Toyota dealer that carries so many other brands (domestic, Japanese, European) that none receive quality attention. I gave up my car from one of their other lines after the service experience at that dealership. Bought a MB, in part because of the "one brand, one dealer" alignment.
Fortunately, there are other Toyota dealers in the area, and a new one that is in a smaller town and is a one brand, one dealer arrangement.
I am also amazed at the number of sales people I encounter who either truly don't know about forums like this, or feign that they don't know. This has to be an incredible resource for you. Just spoke to a Toyota rep who said he had not been trained on the Highlander (it just arrived), and I knew more about the product during our test drive than he did, just from what I have read on Edmunds. There's no excuse for that. Why someone wouldn't understand the power of this resource, and who he will be negotiating with is beyond me.
Actually, the answer is clear -- again, just look at the record breaking sales results. That confirms what PT Barnum said, "there's a sucker born every minute", and they all want new cars!
Now you know where Chrysler got the name for their PT Cruiser.
regards from,
Redirector@aol.com, stuck in Gulf States Port markup country
- Base 2WD I4: $31900 CAN.
- Base AWD V6: $36100 CAN.
Both come with standard roof rack & privacy glass compared to the base US models. For comparation with other MRSP's
- Carry XLE V6 (leather fully LOADED):$33300 CAN.
- Honda Odyssey EX: $34300 CAN.
- Acura 3.2 TL w/o NV: $36000 CAN.
I cannot figure it out how those folks at Toyota came up with these ridiculous MRSP's for the HL...
BTW, MSU, totally agree with you. I missed your re-definition of SUV in #330.