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Toyota Highlander

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Comments

  • watchmansusawatchmansusa Member Posts: 10
    I just found a Toyota Highlander Club on Yahoo at http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/toyotahighlanderclub it looks like it just stated up.
  • dichelledichelle Member Posts: 25
    "P.T. Barnum" Cruiser...that's a good one.

    But seriously, can anyone who's seen a Highlander without the Limited Pkg/upgraded sound tell me if it's true that there is a fixed antenna instead of one in the windshield? Where is it at?

    I'm still trying to figure out where Toyota cut corners in order to make the Highlander cheaper than the RX. Of course, there is the luxury brand appeal, the longer warrantee, and the extra services from a Lexus dealer (when we looked at an RX, the guy was nice, he offered to let me test-drive one for a whole day). Beyond that...comparing a loaded Highlander to a base RX, there are things like the electrochromic mirrors and memory seats. And some differences in interior trim. Is there more? The antenna? Does the HL drive as smoothly and quietly as an RX, or is it somewhat less well sound proofed? Someone in a previous post said the suspensions are tuned differently, but a salesman just told me that's not true.

    I'm really hoping that the HL is mechanically QUITE similar to an RX--has anyone driven both? Am hoping it is the vehicle I've been looking for for a year and a half--not a true off-road SUV, but one which will give me better traction in bad weather. Something that will let me take the lawn mower in to get fixed without trying to cram it in the trunk (yes, I know it's supposed to fold up, but I can never remember how). Like an RX but cheaper and styled differently (and it has a better turning circle!). Not as wide as an MDX, and with a much smoother ride than a 4Runner. A little better gas mileage than a Pathfinder. It's just these darn options that seem to be getting in my way--too much of this and not enough of that in particular packages.

    Hmm...the spell checker tries to change "HL" to "AL."
  • jomabu1jomabu1 Member Posts: 37
    After test driving the Highlander today, I will share some of my insights. The ride and handling of it is very much like the USA Today article mentioned previously. The Highlander driving experience is quiet, smooth, and isolated. Very much like the Camry (with good reason). This car will be a great highway cruiser! I was a bit put off with the hard plastic on the dash and in other areas. My 90 Honda Accord and the current Accord has nicer dash materials that are softer to the touch. The hard plastic is also gripe I have with the MDX.The interior materials are a strong card for the Pathfinder. I must agree with some of the other posts that a loaded Highlander comes precariously close in price to the Acura MDX. I do like the option of not getting all all the bells and whistles. My wife and I were also cross comparing with the Mazda Tribute. We have settled on getting a Highlander. The larger cabin size, quieter more refined ride, and hopefully no recalls swayed us. Now we just have to find one in the Pacific Northwest. Any recommendations in the Seattle area for a dealership? Might wait for a few months to get one below msrp or have to order what we want.
  • cotmccotmc Member Posts: 1,081
    Dianne: I would like to think that the rudeness shown to you by that Lexus salesman is an exception to the typical Lexus customer service, not the norm. You should consider writing a letter to the management of that particular dealer, especially if there is any chance you might still want to buy that GS300. Maybe a small amount of justice will prevail in the end?

    But I understand the larger point you were making, and I would like to add a little more on why many people would prefer a Toyota instead of Lexus. (By the way, I am not one of them, but much of my reasoning is because of the dealers I've experienced.)

    Service and parts costs are another reason why people might prefer Toyota. For example, we have a Lexus dealer nearby that promotes a "premium" oil change service every 3000 to 5000 miles for about $120! They also offer a basic oil change for about $35, but they don't make all their customers aware of that. An older co-worker of mine thought the $120 fee was required on his ES300! What's the difference with the "premium" service? I believe they perform a little extra inspection work, and they also rotate the tires. In other words, this "premium" service would cost less than $50 elsewhere.

    Regarding parts, I was soured by Lexus when I enquired about a CD changer for our ES300. I made the mistake of penny-pinching on our ES300 purchase, and I bought a model without the moonroof and without the CD changer. I really didn't want to pay $1000 for the moonroof, but I did want a CD changer. When I later enquired about having the CD changer installed by the dealer, the Parts Department said it would cost about $1500, before labor! I went back to my salesman to see if he could help on the cost of that CD changer, and he replied "no". He could not help me on the price of the CD changer. When I went back and talked to the Parts Manager, he said he could give me 10% off the cost. Hence, a 6-CD changer was going to cost me about $1350 plus installation! I believe that owners of older Lexus models no longer under the full bumper-bumper warranty would also be required to pay just as much if their CD players fail! I suspect stereo equipment for Toyotas might be just a tad less expensive, don't you?
  • tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    I think the average person is "put off" by the high end dealers, they feel intimadated or out of place walking in. Though I am about to pick up a new RX300 tomorrow, I am by no means "wealthy." I remember the first time I walked into a Lexus dealer about a month ago, I had old jeans on and a T-shirt under my coat. They still treated me good and spent with me as much time as I wanted, all without running a credit report or anything.

    My wife then went by herself and they threw her the keys for a test drive and told her to have fun! She took off by herself and took a leisurely test drive.

    When it came time to buy, this dealer tried to meet the price we had in mind but wouldn't in the end. We ended up finding a great dealer through Priceline.com that would meet our price. THat dealer has subsequently handled all the insurance and paperwork and all I have to do is show up with a check and drive away.

    What I'm getting at is that I don't think one "bad" Lexus dealer is indicative of the brand at all. We've never owned a Lexus, but from my experiences so far, I'm looking forward to it.

    TC
  • ahossaahossa Member Posts: 152
  • ahossaahossa Member Posts: 152
    Would like to know if you hear wind noise and or Road noise. I test drove one but just around the block. The dealer had too many people and just 1 Hl.The drive around the block was real soft but I know highways can be challenging with a vehicle that high to avoid wind noise.
  • ejohnson36ejohnson36 Member Posts: 2
    I noticed on the Highlander shift lever there is a button labeled "Snow Mode". Can some one tell me what it does and when it should be used.
  • tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    If it's the same as the RX300, it will start the HL in 2nd gear from a standing stop. Because there is less torque, it usually helps the tires from spinning.

    TC
  • hawkeye70hawkeye70 Member Posts: 43
    My wife and I looked at the Highlander at the LA auto show and were impressed. We had driven the 4Runner and RAV4 a week earlier and it seemed like a goldilocks experience-neither was exactly what we were looking for. One was too small and under powered and the other was too trucklike and thirsty. Now we need to drive the Hi and confirm.


    I'd like to know what octane gas the V6 Highlander requires. It seems that a 3.0L putting out 220 hp would require premium. But since this engine is used on so many other vehicles, it would make sense to me that it should use regular. The Toyota web site spec sheets didn't have this info.


    Also, if premium gas is specified, would there be any harm in using regular grade, since knock sensors adjust timing to reduce pinging?
    I realize that retarding the timing would reduce the power somewhat, but I doubt it would be very noticeable during normal use. Thanks.
  • baddestbob1baddestbob1 Member Posts: 96
    Edmunds review states "requires premium gas" on V6. There are many, many discussions on regular vs premium gas issue. My take is 80%/20% use the premium, in a years time you're talking peanuts difference. Instead just ease up a little on takeoff.
  • bill28210bill28210 Member Posts: 9
    I have driven the MDX - leave $500 with the dealer and they will call me in August to tell me it is there and than tell me how much the trade is - I do not think so. Dealer charging MSRP at about $34K I think. Dealer in MA I called wanted $40K and car could be had in February.

    Interested in the 2002 Mercury Mountaineer V8 - 2WD, but cannot see here in Charlotte until late February or March.

    Looked at the RX300 and being honest - nice car - but I cannot afford it. Dealer selling 1999 RX300's for $39K and change.

    Still interested in the 2002 Mountaineer.

    Drove the Highlander - 6cyl AWD yesterday and it was k. Really do not need rear seat. just back seat. Dealer salesman "Tim" could not have been more helpful, cordial and knowledgeable. Spent time also looking at 4Runner.

    Kind of interested in the Mountaineer.

    Saw a Mazda Tribute last night and drove one today. 6cyl - 2WD and this baby moved out. Buddy of mine in back seat said o. on room, but critically thought the Highlander quitter and better appointed.

    Talked to Toyota salesman again and told him Mazda 6cyl 2WD I just drove would leave his 6cyl AWD at the light. NO NO NO he said. That is a 200hp engine, mine is a 220hp engine and 2WD will be faster off the line than AWD. We shall see.

    Mountaineer? Late February is a long time away.

    So looked at Highlander options, V6, 2WD with NJ sound, LA Leather Package, AL Limited Package, AR Power tilt and slide sunroof, - WHAT is ID?. The Vehicle Skid Control, which I would like, is AN with ID? Also, what might be coming out in the future on the vehicle if I waited?

    Thank you
    Bill
  • msu79gt82msu79gt82 Member Posts: 541
    Where are you looking for RX300s at? I can get a 2001 RX300 for $38000!! Your qoute of $39K for a 1999 is surely some kind of a joke! The Highlander you want (Limited, Leather, V6, Moonroof, etc will MSRP in the low $30s - probably around 32000 (33000 if 4wd). A base MDX is a better deal for now at $34850 MSRP. Once the rush is off then Highlander may become more affordable when they start to deal.
  • cotmccotmc Member Posts: 1,081
    Last I checked on Carsdirect.com, I can get a 2001 RX300 AWD with Premium Package Plus for $36,000. Tonychrys just bought a top of the line 2001 RX300 AWD with the expensive NAV system, HID headlights, wood steering wheel, all the 'regular' premium stuff, etc., for $38,500 (and he says he COULD have got it even cheaper than that!)

    I also know an Acura dealer who sells MDX's at MSRP with no required add-ons, with several models available as early as March.

    If you're willing to travel a little, there's no need to limit your options, and no reason to pay full MSRP on a Highlander.
  • bill28210bill28210 Member Posts: 9
    I agree with you. You can on the pricing information get an RX300 for $36k and change. The difference is it is on the computer - not in your garage. At least you will not buy it in Charlotte. With the dealers it is a long way between what you see and what y ou get. ALL the RX300's here are loaded. The dealer looks at you and says this is the way Lexus sends them to us. You go along with it or forget it. As far as the Highlander, I know will not be paying MSRP or above.
  • cotmccotmc Member Posts: 1,081
    Interesting. I wonder what would happen if you priced an RX300 with Premium Package Plus, without some of the additional equipment, on carsdirect.com and then placed the order with them? Also, do they indicate a similarly discounted price in your zip code? If not, then I guess it's a moot point.

    Before I bought the MDX, I was also very interested in the new 2002 Mountaineer. But being a Ford product, I was concerned about the first-year reliability. I was also concerned that a loaded Mountaineer might cost nearly as much as the MDX, at least initially.

    By the way, I wouldn't be surprised if a V6 2WD Tribute will accelerate faster than a V6 AWD Highlander (as you suggested). The Tribute is definitely a lighter vehicle. Of course, are you aware of the Escape/Tribute problems? Last I read, there have been 6 different recalls since they introduced these models late last summer. I would expect the Highlander to have much better long-term reliability.
  • tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    cotmc is right, if you really want a RX300 (or any other vehicle that is in ready supply) simply goto carsdirect.com and place an order. They will find a dealer in your area that will sell at the price quoted. No tricks. I was two weeks away from taking delivery of a loaded JGC Limited (at $6000 below MSRP) before changing my mind and cancelling with Carsdirect.

    You could also do what I did and use Priceline.com. Set a low, but fair price. You have nothing to lose, if nobody accepts, simply bump up the price a little.

    Or, if you are really being goughed by dealers in your area, simply buy the car from out of state and have it trucked in. It's not that expensive, but should be a last resort compared to the other alternatives mentioned above.

    Good luck,
    TC
  • bill28210bill28210 Member Posts: 9
    Appreciate all your comments.
    In the pricing for the Highlander on Edmunds, they show an option "ID" - Vehicle Skid Control, Not Available with "ID". Does anyone know what the "ID" option is?
    Thanks for the comments on Mountaineer. I was thinking about buying it so I could cart my friends to dinner. Talked to them and they said no.
    I will research the RX300 and MDX. I really do like them both, except for me to pay sticker is too high right now. I have to be realistic, having a '79 Beetle and a barley.
  • tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    And it stands for "limited slip differential". The VSC and LSD will fight each other, hence you can't have them together. In my opinion, VSC could save your life and is worth having.

    Suggestion: If price is a concern, you might want to look at a vehicle with AWD in the $20 -25K price range like the Hyundai Santa Fe. We looked at this vehicle and while it is no MDX or RX, it is a great value for the price.

    TC
  • texashombretexashombre Member Posts: 13
    Only review I read was that Healy guy for USA Today. Review wasn't very positive whereas other Toyota brands like 4Runner, Tundra etc did. Some has described it as a jacked up stationwagon. 4Runner a still a better buy? Newly designed 4Runner this fall?

    I this many of us in this forum would like to hear more from Highlander test drivers. Thanks.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I've driven both.

    Both the 4-Runner and the Highlander are excellent vehicles, but aimed at different customers. The 4-Runner is much more rugged, more off-road oriented, and can tow more. It's basically a truck. The Highlander, on the other hand, is lighter duty, and offers more car-like driving characteristics.

    So... it depends on what you want, or need.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    to that USA Today Highlander test:

    Bob

    http://www.usatoday.com/money/columns/healey/0044.htm
  • bill28210bill28210 Member Posts: 9
    Thanks - I figured LD was the limited slip. So, on a 2WD - I would imagine you get Limited Slip as the Vehicle Traction COntrol would be for an AWD?
  • tshadletshadle Member Posts: 38
    Run the "Compare" function on the Highlander website. It says no rear window defroster is available.

    Tom S.
  • tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    I'm taking a guess on this, but maybe one of the Toyota experts can answer better.

    I think you could still get VSC on the FWD model because VSC is not part of the drive train. It is actually a system of sensors and software that monitor the wheel spin rate and yaw of the vehicle. When something is "wrong" it selectively applies the brakes to the appropriate wheel (you can do this because of multi-channel ABS) and adjusts the engine throttle.

    TC
  • tshadletshadle Member Posts: 38
    Obviously the Highlander website is a work in progress. Unlike earlier in the week the compare lists the rear defogger as standard.
    Nevermind!
  • cotmccotmc Member Posts: 1,081
    Like tonychrys, I'm also not a Toyota HL expert, but I agree with him that VSC can be purchased on FWD models, because I remember "VSC" was an option on the 1999 Lexus ES300 when I was shopping for one. Both the ES300 and HL share the Camry platform. Obviously, the ES300 is available only as a FWD vehicle. Hence, I see no reason why the HL FWD wouldn't also offer VSC.
  • dede1123dede1123 Member Posts: 1
    I drove the highlander and was extremely disappointed with the set up of the dash/front seats, etc. With knees nearly touching the dash, I could only hold the steering wheel with arms held straight (very uncomfortable). I am 5'10", so maybe it was made for short folks. It needs a telescoping steering wheel. If you drive it, you will see. The emptiness between the front seats was disconcerting. It's ugly and makes it look like a minivan. You can't fasten the seatbelt without lifting the armrest first, and even then it isn't easy. The cupholders are on the floor folding out from the drivers seat -- really tough to get your drink that far away, especially with the armrest in the way. There is this cheesy "graphite" nonsense stuck on the dash that is supposed to look nice. It does not. The drive was very nice and smooth, but I could hardly notice because I was so uncomfortable with the inside set up. What a dissapointment, I really though I was going to love it. The MSRP on the one I drove was 30,500 - not cheap.
  • msu79gt82msu79gt82 Member Posts: 541
    The base model Highlander has the pebbled metallic dash that the Sequoia has. The Limited package adds fake plastic wood dash trim. I agree with dede1123 that the metallic "graphite" dash looks cheap. As dede1123 also pointed out looking cheap is actually very expensive. The MSRP was $30,500 and this is NOT with the Limited Option.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    I don't quite understand the pricing on the one you saw in Baltimore I sell in VA (just South of DC) and we are in the same distribution region. The MSRP for one you described is $29300. I have them with the Limited package, 6 disc, side air bags and moonroof for $32600. Maybe you should make a trip down here before you purchase.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    Premium gas is NOT required. Edmunds claims it is on the Highlander, Avalon and Tundra and in each case they are wrong. On the back of the owner's manual, it is very clearly stated that the mimimum octane rating is 87 but you will get improved performance by using 91 or higher. I love Edmunds, but I can't understand why they can't get this right. The wording is very clear on this issue.
  • vadpvadp Member Posts: 1,025
    The Toyota V6's are DESIGNED to run on the 91 grade gas, as in comparison to the other engines which are DESIGNED to run on 87.
    All of the modern engines have a knock sensing hardware and algorithms built into the engine management programs to monitor it.
    When knocking is detected, the system is able to retard ignition and make other adjustments in order to eliminate a possibility of engine damage.
    On the other hand, running the higher-grade gas in the engine that is not designed for it, will not increase performance.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    Well put. Many people don't realize that by putting premium fuel into an engine that was not designed for it get no benefit other than a lighter wallet. The Highlander, like the Avalon, Sienna and others will benefit from premium but, as you indicated, the engine can handle regular with no adverse effects.
  • cotmccotmc Member Posts: 1,081
    Since the Highlander V6 is the same basic engine used by the RX300, and the RX300 does NOT require Premium gas, then neither should the Highlander. As cliffy says, it looks like Edmunds sometimes misrepresents premium fuel "preferred" vehicles as premium fuel "required", at least on some of these newer vehicles.

    That's one small advantage to SOME of these Japanese upscale SUVs (RX300, HL, Acura MDX) versus the German SUVs (ML, X5) -- they can be fully maintained on "regular" octane gasoline.
  • bill28210bill28210 Member Posts: 9
    Well, I made an offer and they are looking for one. Did not accept - nor did they reject the offer immediately, which is a good sign. As I am in no hurry - we shall see.
    Found out the majority of V6-2WD Highlander in Charlotte area were ordered with NJ Premium 6 in 1 audio, LA Leather Package, LL Limited Package, SR Sunroof, TO Towing pep package, VD Vehicle Traction Control. If I wanted to order something different, 120 day possible wait.
  • salovekusaloveku Member Posts: 22
    I'm still mixed up. I thought the MDX does REQUIRE premium gas although the RX doesn't. Can someone confirm?
  • mdx7mdx7 Member Posts: 3
    Regarding the premium gas issue, one of the gentlemen in the MDX forum explained it best:
    "What are you talking about? Premium fuel serves one purpose it allows for higher compression pressures in the combustion cylinder. If a vehicle requires premium fuel the pistons are compressing the air/fuel mixture to a point where the fuel would detonate on pressure only. Higher Octane (i.e. Premium) fuels allows a higher compression ratio.
    If the fuel air mixture detonates before the spark plug fires you will have knocking which will eventually cause engine damage. Lucky for you the MDX and most engines that require high octane fuels have a knock sensor that will cause the CPU to retard timing (i.e. reduce piston travel) and thereby compression.
    But here's the trade less compression equals less power + more pollution + less gas mileage (this all a fact). The ten cents you save per gallon will more than be consumed by less gas mileage...so in fact you are wasting more money burning 87 octane.
    The problem is some people equate the word premium in premium fuel to being higher quality. Premium (or better-stated, high octane) fuel allows for higher compression ratios. Higher compression ratios are a good thing...as long as the engine is designed for the higher pressure.
    High Octane (again premium) is of no benefit for a car designed for lower Octane fuel.
    Bottom line for the MDX there is NO negative to using premium fuel. There is no reason to use low octane fuel
    Using 87-octane fuel you will be reducing compression by approximately 7-10% as opposed to 91 octane (no need for 93). Because of the variables involved in day to day driving (i.e. temperature, traffic, route, your daily driving technique, and a thousand other minute variables) there is no way you can judge by your fuel usage or seat of the paints acceleration. But rest assured your engine (all other things equal) is substantially less power on 87 octane as opposed to 91 octane. All things being equal you WILL develop fewer horsepower, less gas mileage, and generate more pollution. Why do you think Honda engineered this engine to run on high-octane fuel? (Here's the answer...it's more efficient. It costs a little more to build an engine to withstand the higher compression ratios, but the result is better performance.) If you want to run your engine with retarded timing that's your choice...but don't state that performance is equal."

    Well put.
  • vadpvadp Member Posts: 1,025
    The general idea is correct.
    But I found a lot of messed up details.
    I liked this one:
    "If the fuel air mixture detonates before the spark plug fires you will have
    knocking which will eventually cause engine damage."
    Are we talking about diesels here? ;)
    Also the termin "compression" is used incorrectly throughout the message.

    Just my $.000002
  • cotmccotmc Member Posts: 1,081
    The post referred to within Post #389 should be presented in the full proper context. This post was originally a response to some other posts. The MDX forum had a couple of posts that claimed there was NO reason to use anything but regular 87 octane in an MDX. There were claims that using premium fuel was ludicrous.

    I'm not sure I agree with everything mentioned in that post, but I do agree there should theoretically be a performance difference between 87 octane and 91 octane when used in engines designed for higher compression. The original post seems to think this difference is enough to offset the price difference between the grades of gasoline within normal day-to-day driving, but I'm not so sure that is the case. Also, there was a post in the MDX forum who sweared that he saw absolutely no performance or fuel economy difference when using 87 or 92 octane. It appeared that he was monitoring this closely, but who knows for sure?
  • beantacobeantaco Member Posts: 12
    My local Toyota dealer received their first AL this week Vintage Gold with Ivory leather interior Limited V6 AWD. Couldn't drive it but sat in it and looked around. I agree with deed #380 I didn't like the dash set up,seemed squat, tight on the legs (I am 5'8"), slanted forward, not sure about the "pod" and Definitely don't like the space between the front seats with those cup holders, I believe that a center consul is an add on option. The seats where comfortable and the leather is fair. Climate control seems OK. This car did not cause any excitement for me. I also was looking forward to this vehicle but so far... blah... will drive it tomorrow, but I can't see that changing my mind. The two thing that concern me are in that USA Today review.. braking and traction. These are just to important here in northern Vermont where ice is king and studded snow are the norm.

    BTW my local dealer is not negoiating price and will be asking for sticker for now, 34K!!! If the drive is as dull as the looks I am getting a Passat 4Motion wagon with Nokia studded snows.
    Thanks for your time
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    The USA today article did make reference to the traction, but I didn't think it said it did poorly. It said it made a bunch of clicking noises. This was the VSC that was on the one he drove and it was doing exactly what it was supposed to do. Take it for a spin. For the money, I'll bet you are impressed.
  • wenyuewenyue Member Posts: 558
    There is an unscientific and inaccurate information reguarding the gas milage as being spoken here.

    I'm a scientist by profession, a medicinal chemist to be exact, and I tend to frawn when someone makes an unscientific assumption without hard data. As in the case being stated above.

    Let's look at the real world example: Of engines than can both us regular octane (87) and premium gas (91).

    MDX is in reality a modified minivan, based on the Honda Odyssey. So there is no better example (in my humble opinion) than looking at the Honda's own Odyssey minivan.

    The Odyssey does NOT require 91 Octane. It will benefit from premium fuel just like the Highlander. Odyssey makes 210 hp when you using 91 Octane. But will make 205 hp using 87 Octane.

    In another word, switching to regular gas leads to 2.4% drop in hp. Hp in a measurement of the how much work is done per second. Moving/driving a car a certain distance requires a certain amount of work. So if 210 hp engine could do that work in 100 seconds, then a 205 hp can do the SAME work in 102.4 seconds. So a 205 hp engine will have to work 2.4 extra seconds to do the same amount of work, using up 2.4% extra fuel.

    Over here in Michigan, the 91 Octane fuel goes at about $1.70 a gallon, and 87 Octane goes by about $1.50 a gallon. The difference is about 20 cents, or you save 12% in fuel cost going with 87 Octane.

    So yes, your gas milage will drop by 2.4% (since you have to work 2.4% longer to do the same amount of work), but you saved 12% in fuel cost. In the end, you subtract 2.4% extra fuel needed to do the same work by using regular 87 octane, you still save 12%-2.4% = 9.6% in fuel cost.

    If MDX's engine is somewhat related to the Odyssey's engine, then the same would hold true. MDX owners would save some money if their engine could run on regular fuel. These numbers are not exact, since there are other minor variables, but the number should be in the ball park.

    The mistake people make is the assumption that the premium fuel gets them a linearly proportional increase in performance as the difference in fuel cost. But in reality, the performance gain is typically much less than the % increase in gas price.

    To sum it up, in real life, most people will save considerable amount of money by using REGULAR rather than premium fuel.
  • tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    wenyue... you yourseld just made an incorrect assumption in you last statement. There are some engines out there are designed to run on high (>91) octane fuel and using regular would void the warranty. I believe the new high output V6s in the Nissan PFs and I KNOW for a fact that many MBs are designed to run on premium. These folks really have no choice. Will these cars run on 87? Yes, but not the way they were intended and out of spec.

    But yes, about 95% of the cars out there are designed to run at 87 octane.

    TC
  • wenyuewenyue Member Posts: 558
    You missed read my post. Note I stated in my post VERY specifically, and I quote:

    "Let's look at the real world example: Of engines than can both us regular octane (87) and premium gas (91)."

    I stated that my post is reguarding "engines that can both use regular and premium gas". I didn't say that a engine that require a premium gasoline should use a grade of gasoline that voids warranty. I excluded them.

    I agree with you that if you have one of those engine that requires premium fuel, then you really don't have an option to opt for money savings by using a cheaper lower grade gasoline.

    As a further disclaimer to all that read my post: My last post is NOT an attempt to tell people to use wrong grade of gasoline. And at no point did I assume that all engine could run a regular gasoline.
  • mrplavickmrplavick Member Posts: 2
    when selecting a new vehicle. If you were to drive 20000 miles per year and get 20 mpg you'd use 1000 gallons per year. Premium only costs 14 cents more per gallon where I live, which translates into $140 per year or less than $12 per month. If $12 bucks per month were make or break for me then I'd ride the bus. My 2 cents, your mileage may vary (pun intended).
  • wenyuewenyue Member Posts: 558
    My takes on the issue is: if you can't notice the difference, why not save some money.

    My friend has a Camry V6 XLE. It could use premium gas or regular gas. Using premium gas gets maybe something like 6 extra hp. My friend always use regular gasoline. She said that she can't notice any difference, and since she doesn't drive the car at the limit if it's performance, she doesn't miss the 6 extra hp. So why not save couple hundred dollars a year?

    I would tend to agree. Why not? At the end of the year, take your wife out to a fancy restaurant, or buy yourself a new tool set. If you are a pretty conservative driver, you probably won't even miss the last few ounce of speed that's missing. So why spend money on something that you don't need?
  • bill28210bill28210 Member Posts: 9
    Well, the dealer found a Highlander just like I wanted. I went in tonight to hear about it and talk some pricing. The car had the essential factory equipment I wanted plus - TOYO paint guard and floor mats plus a $536 Southeast Toyota Distributors charge. I had figured in the charge, but did not want or feel the need for the guard. Also was told the Highlander would be sold just like the Sequoia - for sticker unless I found one for less, than they would talk reducing the price. I do not need a car, I am retired and just maybe I will take a trip up the East Coast with my '98 Honda V6 Coupe with 37,300 miles and some cash and see about buying a car outside of this area.
  • bobcatbobbobcatbob Member Posts: 187
    Thanks for the inforamtion, but I was correct on the pricing on it (I went back and checked) , so I don't know what is up.

    I won't be buying a Highlander as I saw the Liberty at the Baltimore Auto Show and am totally smitten.

    I do some off-roading and traversing of fire rods, and then Toyota Dealer said that the Highlander wasn't even close to being able to off-road. So, cross the tall wagon off of my list.
  • rsharp83rsharp83 Member Posts: 82
    The Highlander arrived at my local dealer today. Over $35,000! NO THANKS. In person the Highlander does not have the looks of the RAV4 or the 4Runner. And it most definantly is not the looker that the Lexus RX is. It is very plain, I really expected more style.

    I will likely test drive it because my mother in law is interested. Although she really likes my new Sante Fe and for over 10 grand less and a whole lot better looks the Hyundai is seeming a better deal all the time.
  • wenyuewenyue Member Posts: 558
    Do you actually do any off-roading? Most people are very careful not to let their $30K SUV get a scratch, never mind off-road travel.

    Seems like the new direction for SUV are these "tall wagons". After Lexus took the plunge with the RX300, Acura, BMW, Hyundai, most automakers have followed suit building these "tall wagons". Off-road SUV are a dying breed.

    But if you really are one of the very few that plans to do off-roading, then you should avoid the Highlander, RX300, MDX... ect. 4Runner and Sequoia are probably your best bet. You could also go with one from GM or Ford, but good reliability is less assured.
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