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Stories from the Sales Frontlines

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Comments

  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    I am familiar with the TIN number having grown up around tires. My tire specialist has owned a trusted business for over 40 years. Most locals here buy from him. He doesn't have to push a set of tires on you; he maintains a booming business. I think that he was trying to be cautious and I appreciate it. If I'm driving 70 mph on four pieces of rubber, I want my tire man to err on the side of caution.

    Richard
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    edited January 2013
    "If is a person is left handed, does that mean they are left footed as well?"

    My wife and I are both left handed. It never dawned on us to be left footed. It's not a problem for us. We belong to the South Paws Club. We have many left handed objects in our home---scissors, cooking utensils, golf clubs, etc. Our teapots and coffee pots are always facing the other way on our trays and tables. When we dine with others, we always request the end chairs or the outside of booths. That way we don't knock elbows with others.

    Richard
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    edited January 2013
    In my humble opinion, the 6-year rule makes sense for starting careful checking. Have your tire man show you a tire that has "dry rot" in the rubber with the fine cracks between the tread rows and other places. That may start to show and not be a problem at first. Later, moisture can get between the rubber through the cracks and affect the belts inside the layers of rubber.

    More important, learn to use a thumbnail. Press into a chunk of the rubber tread and see how much it gives. Then do that with a newer tire of the same type. There will be a difference between brands and types of tires, designed for long mileage or for sticky grip. As the tread ages, that gets harder. The rubber won't grip the road as well for emergency type grip and won't grip quite as well when wet. If your Sebring has a tire that's still made and stocked by tireman, have him show you the new tire and test the rubber with your thumbnail, strictly for comparison.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    What's wrong with these sales people. I stopped at a store today to see and sit in a new model. The salesman practically ran to catch me as I parked at the entrance. I told him I just wanted to look at a couple of the models. He stayed right with me the whole time. I felt like I was a known shoplifter at a clothing store and they were afraid I'd steal a shirt or something. I just wanted to sit in the seat a while to let my back and thighs get acquainted and see if it would feel good for a long drive (I don't think it would). I wanted to read the window label, which they had on the windshield so it was next to impossible to read from the side. I sit in the rear seats. I look in the trunk. All this with Frankenstein sternly watching me. He probably was upset that I wasn't planning to buy and drive away with a car at 3 pm on a Saturday? Same thing I had found at a toyota dealer a couple years back.

    Just let me look at the danged car for a while.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • abacomikeabacomike Member Posts: 12,255
    Just let me look at the danged car for a while

    imidazol, sometimes it's the salesperson's style (or fault) and sometimes it's the dealership's style (or fault). In some cases, dealerships insist that a salesman pick up a customer and stay with them from the time they enter the parking lot to the time they leave. Other times, it's just the way a salesperson deals with people.

    At my Mercedes Dealership, some of the salespeople are so "hungry" they wait outside the dealership waiting for people to pull in. Others know better, but in an upscale dealership, customers should be allowed to pull in, unmolested, walk around, enter the showroom, walk around, and then, if they want some assistance, there should be a greeter. The use of greeters is the best of all worlds. The greeter asks the customer if they are interested in having a salesperson assist them. If they say fine, then they assign one. If they say no, then they should be allowed to browse.

    A greeter can ask the customer if they are here to see anyone in particular. That way, no one gets hurt. I hated it when a salesperson would accost a customer even before the engine was shut down by the customer in the parking lot.

    At the first dealership I worked at, customers were not to be bothered if they were browsing in the new car lot. When I was a sales manager, the owner of the dealership "insisted" that salespeople could do anything they wanted as long as they sold cars. So my hands were tied.

    I was in a local Toyota dealership with a neighbor of mine last week. He was looking for a new Camry. We pulled into the dealership and even before the my neighbor had found a parking space, there were two salesman knocking on his driver's side window, asking if he needed help. I told him to drive off the lot and we went to another Toyota Dealership. I wish more people would do that when they are pressured at a dealership.

    The Huyandi dealership locally is the same way. You can't even pull onto the lot without being "terrorized" by the salespeople.

    2021 Genesis G90

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    The store where I spent my entire car career was family owned and fairly laid back. We didn't have Liners and Closers and we didn't have an "up" system.

    I got lucky because I wouldn't have put up with being micro managed.

    Last summer, our son bought a new Jeep Wrangler and oh my, did I ever see sterotypical stores in action. Salesmen stood in line outside and hollered "UP" when a car would pull onto the lot.

    In one store, we were turned over to three seperate closers none of which would have worked for me or been hired by our store.

    They tried EVERY trick in the book. It's no wonder people feel the way they do!
  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 6,953
    Funny, I live like 5 miles up the road from you, Wiles Rd. and 441 area, and the air in our house has barely kicked on, and I leave it at 78 all the time. The wife and I just came back from a late lunch in Boca and she commented about how nice it was as we came back to her car. This has been a warm winter for us but I suspect we'll see some more 50's and possibly 40's before the end of March. Am very happy not to run anything in the house except the fans as our power bill an get quite high during the summer when I'm home alone during the day.

    The Sandman :) :sick: :shades:

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,856
    78! Oh my, never. I run at 74 when it's scorching out (90+) and 72 when it's in the high 70s / 80s.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    Thanks for the tips. We also have to remember that the car has 35K on the meter which would result in some obvious tread wear. My tire man suggested that I could wait another 5K or six months. That should put us near the six year mark.

    Richard
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    I had the opposite experience a couple of months ago. I pulled in and parked at about 11 AM. I walked the lots, spoke to the man washing cars, toured the show room, and left. Not one salesman approached me though some nodded and smiled as they walked by. Interesting how dealers operate differently.

    Richard
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,440
    too much car talk.

    went to the movies tonight (man, what a zoo. this theatre has to be making a fortune). Intended to see silver linings playbook, but 45 minutes before showtime it was sold out. So saw Argo instead (which I wanted to see when it was new, and was surprised to see it still there).

    anyway, excellent movie. My wife appreciated that it was not full of shooting and scary/gory stuff (the reason we did not see zero dark thirty, which I will go next week to see with my son).

    oh, lots of neat 70s vintage cars. Loved the Adam-12 refugee Matadors used as cop cars in Tehran! And some nice vintage MBs for Fintail.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,440
    I have had it both ways. One Nissan dealer near me is a pounce place. My wife won't go there. they group in front of the door, and gang up on you.

    others, they are low key, ask if you need help, and if you say no they leave you alone.

    one place though that I was invisible, more than once, was a local chevy place (guess I did not look rich enough?), and also a Dodge place in an autoplex strip none for handling bad credit more than selling cars you want. Maybe I looked too rich?

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • mako1amako1a Member Posts: 1,855
    78! Oh my, never. I run at 74 when it's scorching out (90+) and 72 when it's in the high 70s / 80s.

    We keep the temp at 69 degrees winter and summer. Forget the power bills.

    Our electric bills are usually low of $150 and high of $375 and we're all electric.

    2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali

  • mako1amako1a Member Posts: 1,855
    Nissan dealer near me is a pounce place

    Perfect description. Nissan dealer here same. Went there to claim (supposed) free gift...never went back again. Annoying, overly talkative and no free prize.

    2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    Craig - you never told us that story. You, retired, on the "other side." What else are you holding from us? How's your son like his wrangler?

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • abacomikeabacomike Member Posts: 12,255
    78! Oh my, never. I run at 74 when it's scorching out (90+) and 72 when it's in the high 70s / 80s.

    We do the same as Sandman as regards temperature settings. In the summers, we set the temperature at 78 degrees and during a warm winter like this one, 77 degrees. If we ever set our thermostat at 72-74 degrees, we would freeze. My dad gets cold at 78 degrees, so you know what most of our disagreements are about. We shut the air off when we leave the house each morning and usually don't have to switch it back on until the temp in the condo reaches 80, which is about 3:00 PM each day.

    You have to understand that we are accustomed to the heat and humidity after living here for many, many years. Remember, I lived in the Mojave Desert for many years as well where temps were in the 105-109 degree range every day from May through October.

    It's the cold temps we can't tolerate. Anything below 70 degrees to us is cold. If it gets into the 50's night or day, we turn on the heat. It's all what you are accustomed to. Imagine people who live in Alaska - the probably melt in temps above 75 degrees.

    2021 Genesis G90

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 31,964
    Use of E15 gas could void your warranty and ruin your engine.

    This from AAA:
    AAA said it fears unsuspecting consumers using E15 could end up with engine problems that might not be covered by their vehicles' warranties. It cited five manufacturers—BMW, Chrysler, Nissan, Toyota and Volkswagen—as on record saying their warranties will not cover fuel-related claims caused by the use of E15. Seven additional auto makers—Ford, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Mazda, Mercedes-Benz and Volvo—have stated that the use of E15 does not comply with the fuel requirements specified in their owner's manuals and may void warranty coverage, according to the organization.

    AAA - E15 gas

    Fox News Video
    Fox News Warning

    Is this just making news up to fill 24/7 news or is this something to worry about?

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    Well, it appears that the E15 is a debatable issue. The EPA says that E15 is designed for the flexible fuel vehicles and those vehicles that were manufactured after 2001. It is estimated that 45% of the country's drivers are driving vehicles made prior to 2001. That figure alone is an interesting one. I certainly never realized that nearly half the country drives cars over a decade in age. At least they are getting the "goodie" out of their purchase.

    You may not be able to avoid some E15 even if you try. If a gas customer prior to you used E15, you will get about one third of a gallon in your tank from residue remaining in the gas hose. It is believed that this small amount would not harm your vehicle. Some experts are calling for additional research on E15. The EPA says that it is safe for vehicles within the current category. We all know that government knows best. After all, who wouldn't sacrifice their car to help out with the greenhouse problem? Go Al! :sick:

    Richard
  • bwiabwia Member Posts: 2,913
    Well, it appears that the E15 is a debatable issue.

    Pardon the ignorance but what is the difference between E15 and E85? My 2011 Buick LaCrosse is designed to run on E85. Not sure what that means but I believe it to a blend of 85% pure gasoline and 15% ethanol. However, at most pumps where I fill up the sign normally reads 10% ethanol.

    So in my thinking, the lower the ethanol content the better the expected performance. I am wrong or is this a totally different discussion?
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,440
    the E# is the % of ethanol. IMO, 1% is too much!

    so E15 is just 85% gas instead of 90%, and E85 is only 15% gas.

    an E85 (flex fuel) engine has to be specially designed to essentially run on ethanol or gas. E10 engines are more like regular engines that can tolerate that much ethanol. So it seems that 15% is just too much ethanol for a normal engine.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 22,564
    "...E15..."

    Sounds like a plot to trash all cars made before 2001. Kind of a cash for clunkers program in reverse that COSTS you $4500.

    I'm still fuming over the mess E10 has made to small lawn mower type engines.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,440
    My BIL (the one who lives in Amsterdam) agrees with you. He has a large property, and a bunch of small engines (mower, snowblower, snow mobiles, etc.). There was one small Citgo in town that did carry (usually) straight gas, sold essentially for off-road only (just small engines in cans).

    not sure how they got it. I think he said the somehow strained it out? Anyway, very popular place, and people wanted to get it for their cars too.

    seems though the EPA or staties wanted to shut them down, being as they were evil and all, but they were putting up the good fight last I heard!

    wonder if stabil helps with that? Or if there are other products?

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,440
    oh, 1 more thing. I won't use it in my 2 strokes (just a weed trimmer now, until I open up my new chain saw) so I buy pre-mixed pure gas + oil in quart cans at sears. I use so little of it that the $10/gal price (on sale!) does not bother me.

    my lawn mower, I just throw in Exxon E10 and hope for the best.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,217
    E10 sucks... I'm guessing that E15 will be worse.. :(

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  • abacomikeabacomike Member Posts: 12,255
    E10 sucks... I'm guessing that E15 will be worse

    My Mercedes is designed to run on 85% gas and 15% ethanol, but they don't sell that down here in Florida - yet. The more entanol they put into gasoline, the higher the cost of the gasoline. That is because ethanol costs more, per gallon, to produce and blend than pure gasoline. The reason for the ethanol is to reduce emissions - how much I am not sure about.

    Using ethanol reduces dependency on foreign oil - which was the original reason for puttng ethanol in gasoline.

    By the year 2020, internal combustion engines will have to travel almost 45 miles on a gallon of fuel. With the introduction of the ECO start/stop engines, they have improved city driving mileage by 20%. The new E350 sedan is supposed to get 24 mgp city, 31 highway. That is a significant improvement. I understand they are coming out with a 4 cylinder engine for the E350 soon which is expected to develop 260 hp a get 30/40 mpg city/highway.

    But back to ethanol - I believe it damages engines in the long run - to burn alcohol - which burns hotter than gasoline.

    2021 Genesis G90

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    You know, until just recently nobody ever cared about tires neeeding to be replaced due to time. Back when we were broke kids we scrounged used tires out of junkyards and bought recaps.

    Once in a great while someone would have a blowout but not very often.

    I think the whole thing is overblown. but...that's me.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I didn't mention my background when I was helping my son buy his Wrangler but they quickly learned that I wasn't one to "mess" with.

    In the stores we were in the "managers" sat in a tower like gods and the salespeople would approach them. I'm surprised they didn't have to bow down to them.

    One store had a place where the salesperson who was "up" had to stand and he couldn't leave his post.

    Another store had a cheap looking canopy where the salespeople stood. They weren't allowed in the store building unless they had a customer.

    What a degrading, lousy way to make a living!

    He ended up buying a 2012 Jeep Wrangler that was pretty loaded. He loves it.

    I find it to be the most uncomfortable vehicle I've ever been in. The back seat is difficult to get into and uncomfortable as can be.

    It would have been one of the LAST cars I would have considered.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,856
    In the stores we were in the "managers" sat in a tower like gods and the salespeople would approach them. I'm surprised they didn't have to bow down to them.

    When I got the LaCrosse I got so tired of the Salesperson running up to the
    manager I just walked up to the manager area (above the sales floor ) and dealt with the manager directly. Deal was done fairly fast after that!

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    Yeah, but Wrangler people are different. If I could afford a play vehicle I could see I could have fun with one. They do srtke me as overpriced but they sell all they make so I'm wrong.

    We have exactly three (3) stations in all of NJ that sell pure gas. If I want top tier pure gas there is one (1) station in NJ - an Exxon in Millville. By one daughter's boyfriend is from around there. I may have to have him fill a gas can for me so I'll have real gas for the mower.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,164
    edited January 2013
    Using ethanol reduces dependency on foreign oil - which was the original reason for putting ethanol in gasoline.

    Not really. It takes a lot of diesel to grow corn for the ethanol. Ethanol mandate is best example of what's wrong with Washington. It is outrageous, stupid and downright criminal. For sake of corporate fatcats from ADM and others, poor people in Africa, Mexico and even here are forced to compete with machines for food. The mandate alone increased world famine probably more than natural disasters. Compared to that, the damage this unwanted, corrosive garbage causes on vehicles, is minor. I trully despise interest groups that are so powerful that neither party candidate would even make a peep about this during primaries. Notice that even drought was not enough to dissuade those thieves to loosen their grip and those idiots in Washington only obliged.

    Sorry for the tirade, but this subject is one of those that make me trully angry.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    Seems like a great opportunity for the drug companies to sell flu vaccines like oil companies sell gas:

    1) Premium gets 4 viruses protected
    2) Plus gets 3 viruses
    3) Regular unleaded gets 2 (the current standard).

    People could choose which they want to pay for.

    If it works as good as some here say, I'd suppose the market will opt for the best. Put their money where their mouth is. I heard a doctor guest on talk radio state it was more like 60% effective, not the 91% previously reported here. Keep in mind even with the 60% figure, he was PRO-vaccine.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • abacomikeabacomike Member Posts: 12,255
    Sorry for the tirade, but this subject is one of those that make me trully angry.

    You are totally correct! The alcohol produced by fermenting the corn seems more important than feeding people that precious crop. I prefer pure gasoline that will not oxidize the hoses and gaskets and cause engines to burn outrageously hot from the alcohol additives.

    But the original reason for adding alcohol to gasoline started back on the late 70's and early 80's to reduce dependency on foreign oil so that the so called oil embargo would never again cripple this country.

    2021 Genesis G90

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    I totally agree dino.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    Alcohol is primarily to benefit the big farm companies. Their lobbyists portray it as a benefit to the small farmer, but that's not the real case. The government gives a subsidy to the companies who built plants to produce ethanol from the corn. It takes more energy to produce a gallon of ethanol than a gallon of gasoline.

    The green folks also pushed the ethanol, whether they were just useful idiots for the big company's cause or really thought it would save the world, I don't know. The plants producing ethanol produce a large amount of CO2. To cover up that sin of producing CO2 (food for plants) they tried to pipe it deep underground to dispose of it at a nearby plant. But that got turned down. Instead they built a dry ice plant nearby. I don't know how much of their production that uses up.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 31,964
    . Keep in mind even with the 60% figure, he was PRO-vaccine.

    Andre, start looking at the world in a positive way...you will enjoy life more.

    That means almost 2/3rds of the people are protected against the worst strains of flu, and 2/3rds protection is better than no protection. Advantages still outweigh disadvantages, if you do get the flu it will probably be a milder form if you get vaccinated, and if you don't get the flu you won't pass it on to friends and loved ones.

    I'd rather have 62% protection than 0 protection.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 31,964
    I totally agree dino.

    Me too...and I learned something of value today! Using corn for fuel sounds good in theory, but, isn't so good in real life.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    So a couple years ago I asked the question about "no haggle pricing" and that I was thinking about moving in that direction. I got a lot of feedback and I also understand that some didn't like the idea. Of course the folks on here, for the most part, do more research when buying a car. Some do hours upon hours of research and look to sqeeze the last penny out of the deal and sometimes get it done.....My whole motive was for multiple reasons. 1. speed up the process 2. Better salespeople (many won't try the job because they don't like the haggle part) 3. more consistant gross profit (the only reason one guy gets $500 below cost is another guy paid $1000 over cost) 4. make it easier to buy a car. 5. offer the correct value on the trade, no holding back or flim flam of the numbers. 6. transparency.

    Here we are two years later and I did make the change and wanted to share our results....We went to very limited haggling on new cars (we post all our prices on the websites and quote said price to everyone) by "limited" I save a little bit to "throw in free floor mats" to seal the deal, if need be. Over the past year we have avg. less than $80 deviation from the posted new car price. On used cars we are solid No haggle....There was a learning curve for our salespeople and managers but they found it to be easier. Our entire sales process shifted from "selling the deal" to presenting the car and the process. Of course, there are customers who didn't like it and yeah, we may not be the lowest price in the country. probably lost some deals also. But sales have not fallen off, quite the opposite and profits have increased substantially....I would say its a success so far. I think eventually the entire industry is moving in this direction. New car margins are lower than ever before, so the dealers who are versed in no haggle or limited haggle will have a huge advantage.

    I agree that anyone can take my posted price and go to the next dealer and probably get a little better price...but at what cost or time? We don't have any circus music playing when the pricing starts, no manager in the back room, no extra stickers on the car for pin stripes and undercoating, no closer to hammer you if you want to leave without buying....and best of all your next door neighbor pays the same price you did and your 85 year old grandma gets the same price also. I'm glad we made the change and I think our customers like it also. We are in business to make money and I'm not ashamed of that but this has been a game changer. It was kinda scary at first and it was a big risk, not all employees handled the change and moved on. I would like to hear from folks who have purchased from no haggle dealers and their thoughts...
  • bwiabwia Member Posts: 2,913
    But the original reason for adding alcohol to gasoline started back on the late 70's and early 80's to reduce dependency on foreign oil

    All good points but don't forget that oil is a non-renewable resource. So although ethanol may have some harmful impacts on the combustion engine it helps to prolong the supply of oil for the next generation.

    Brazil has become energy independent because it is able to convert sugarcane into bio fuels thus preserving its limited oil reserves. Most, if not all, of Brazil's automobiles run on bio fuels without the significant harmful impacts cited above.
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,164
    Alcohol is bad enough due to corrosion, but if it were made of items that are directly used for feeding humanity (like sugar cane/beats, at least to some extent, leaf plants, grass, etc.), it could possibly be dealt with by changing fuel lines, storage practice. However, what really makes me angry, is American version of ethanol subsidy, i.e. corn. I read somewhere that 30% of corn production will supply some 3% of fuel needs. If this is true (don't know the real number, just heard it), you can see how trully criminal this mandate is.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • baldar538baldar538 Member Posts: 2
    I was at the car dealership yesterday, and signed some of the paperwork on a 2013 Forester. They even forgot to give me a copy of what I signed, I had to ask and they ran it through the copier. I never went to the finance office, but they did start to run my credit. They told me the final paperwork would be ready on Wednesday.

    The paper I signed that they gave me a copy of is all handwritten, no title, and just has the agreed on price, VIN number, color. None of the monthly payment or financing details. The only text on it is at the bottom "Purchaser agrees that this Order includes all the terms and conditions on both the face and reverse side hereof, that this Order and any Riders here-to cancels and supersedes any prior agreement and as the date herof comprises the complete and exclusive statement of the terms of the agreement relation to the subject matters covered hereby, and that THIS ORDER SHALL NOT BECOME BINDING UNTIL ACCEPTED BY DEALER OR HIS AUTHORIZED REPRESENTATIVE AND IN THE EVENT OF A TIME SALE, DEALER SHALL NOT E OBLIGATED TO SELL UNTIL APPROVAL OF THE TERMS HEREOF IS GIVEN BY A BANK OR FINANCE COMPANY WILLING TO PURCHASE A RETAIL INSTALLMENT CONTRACT BETWEEN PARTIES HERETO BASED ON SUCH TERMS Purchaser by his execution of this Order certifies that he is 18 years of age or older and acknlowledges that he ahas read its terms and conditions and has received a true copy of this Order. By signing this order, you are give {dealername} the right to obtain a credit report. Customer states that the trade in vehicle does not have a salvaged/rebuilt title, frame damage, and that the air bags have not been deployed.

    Is this the "final" paper? Or is that Wednesday? I still want to do business with this dealer. When I came home, I saw they had a vehicle in transit that MSRPs for $100 less that is a color I like more and has exactly the options I want. I'm even willing to eat the $100 and wait for this other vehicle to arrive. Is this a possibility, or am I stuck with the not bad but not EXACTLY what I am looking for car? I left a message for them last night. We were there until they closed so they haven't gotten the message yet. I'm planning to call them as soon as they open in the morning. Just a bit nervous because I'd really like the one that is still in transit.
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,164
    The problem is that production of corn takes a lot of diesel fuel (most agricultural machines run on that, not ethanol). The renewable aspect would have worked if all (most) the energy from the Sun stored in corn was well above that needed to cultivate the plant (machines, fertalizers, transportation, production). It is not. The energy math simply does not add up - hence the subsidy was needed to get it going. The price is paid by peasants and poor city folk in Mexico, Guatemala, Africa, Bangladesh, Pakistan, North Korea, Myanmar and all those other places with poor people who see price of basic grains doubling, trippling, not just because of drought, but because yahoos at EPA and activists in Iowa caucuses decided it was a great idea to put corn into peoples' tanks. "Everybody" wins - well, it is everybody amongst them. We pay for their wins. We can afford it, but I'm afraid mother of five in Chiapas can't.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Wow, where have you been??

    I don't think that would have worked at the store where I was working.

    I know some would have liked it but others would have just gleefully taken our no haggle price and shopped it to death.

    Now, on used cars I think that would be a different story since they are all unique.

    We were the Costco store for the area and that is susposted to be a solid no dicker price. Sometimes that worked just fine but we had to be sure and let the Costco shoppers know (as they were leaving to shop) to check with us if the heard anything less.

    Personally, I got tired of the grinders and would have loved a program like that. I just don't think it would have worked given our market.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 22,564
    "...the price is paid..."

    I think most of what's been said about ethanol is true. The energy inputs and outputs just about net out. The big push came from mid-west senators looking out for their farm constitutents, mostly BIG agri business. The only way it works is because of the federal subsides.

    It has helped small farmers to some extent, I see fields here in NY that were abandoned years ago now full of corn so I guess a rising tide floats all boats.

    If they were really serious about energy independence they should embrace fracking and the US would be an exporter of oil and as.

    The effect on the third world is a double edged sword. If it breaks poor country's dependence on cheap food from the west they might change some of the self-defeating policies that keep their people poor and starving.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,164
    The last statement is certainly valid. Food help can destroy an economy as much as expensive food. Many poor countries are poor due to their inept and corrupt governments. However, I simply think the corn ethanol mandate makes things worse, in aggregate, not better - and woul have never taken off if not for presidential politics and corporate welfare.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,440
    I was talking about the ethanol fuel issue over the holidays with my BIL. He is an engineer, and works in the alternative energy field (and setting up businesses overseas).

    Turns out that using corn does not exactly divert from the food chain. Don't ask me the mechanics, but whatever they do to squeeze the alcohol out leaves behind the mash (or whatever you call it) that is used for animal feed. I think it might actually be better suited? but in any case, it does not have the impact on corn supply that I thought it did.

    what it is doing, as Farmer noted, is switching over arable land from other crops to corn.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • abacomikeabacomike Member Posts: 12,255
    I was at the car dealership yesterday

    *baldar, I am going to guess that you have been reading the forums on Edmunds for some time. I am going to take another guess that you have read somewhere that you "never sign anything unless you have the exact out-the-door price, interest rates, monthly payments, downpayments, etc.

    Now, if I am wrong that you have never read any of the forums and that you never knew to never sign anything without all the data, numbers, etc., being etched in stone and signed by the dealership and you, then you made a mistake. But if you did know, it was a foolish mistake.

    As for it "being the final paper", for your sake I sure hope not. If you are looking for some advice, which it appears you are, go to the dealership immediately, get your money back, have them rip up all the papers you signed, and high-tail it out of there pronto!

    I've never heard of anyone signing something without everything being right there in front of them on the dotted line.

    Let's hope you haven't signed your life away!

    2021 Genesis G90

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,440
    from that description, just sounds like the buyers order. Not legally binding on you, but the dealer could have a problem if they tried to reneg.

    The "final" (real?) paperwork is what gets printed and signed in the finance office, with all of the legal disclaimers, etc. Very regimented and regulated. That is when you would also see all the final fees/taxes/payments.

    besides, if there is no deposit, there really is nothing the dealer can do to "make" you take a car.

    in effect, it is a glorified handshake to say hold that car for me, and how much it will cost..

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    Hey audia8q! Good to see you back! I'm glad that switching to "no haggle" has been such a success for you! Mazdas, right? Here in CT too if memory serves. In fact, I might have still been living in NY the last time we heard from you.

    So can you give us the gory details on how you price your new/used cars? On the new cars is it something like $X or X% above invoice minus incentives (will you tell us the actual dollar amount)? Is it different for each model? On used cars is it price paid + reconditioning/repair costs + a set dollar amount? How often do you adjust your new car pricing? Once a month?

    Has anybody "stormed out" and then come back to buy the car from you?

    I don't know if I'd personally ever buy from a "no haggle dealership." But maybe if I felt the price on the new car & my trade were excellent & the other dealership seemed slimy, I would go for the no haggle dealership.

    There is a poster "breld" on the Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous thread that just bought from a no haggle dealer in CO.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • baldar538baldar538 Member Posts: 2
    edited January 2013
    Thanks for the replies. Actually, I haven't been on Edmunds before. Stumbled across it while looking for a place that may know an answer. This is actually the fourth car I've bought, so I've been through the process before. Typically though it was all done at once and I was out the door that night. I wouldn't have signed any papers if I didn't like the car. I liked the original car enough, and I negotiated a really good deal. If I hadn't glanced at their website last night I probably would have never even thought twice about it.

    As far as the minutia we're dealing with, both are new cars - same model and trim level. The one I signed for is dark metallic cherry, but I kind of like the dark grey better. I could live with either color. Neither is the end of the world.

    As far as features, the one I signed the paper on last night is exactly the same as the one I'd like instead with a couple of differences. The one I signed for has floormats and a cargo cover. The one I'd like instead has fog lights and upgraded radio instead of those two items. The one with the radio and fog lights actually lists at $100 less.

    Had they been ready with finance, PMI, fuel, detail, etc last night I would have drove home in the dark cherry and not felt ripped off.

    I've bought from this dealer before and was happy. I was just mainly asking the question because in the past the "contracts" have always been well typed, legalese, several signing blocks in the finance office by the finance guy. This was handwritten on a form at the salesmans desk.. and it's one of the bigger dealers in my area, not a tiny lot where everything would be hand written.

    Also, there was no deposit, no trade in.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    Audia8q....welcome back. Great update. Glad to hear that the "single price" works for you. I know that I use that technique. The difference is I'm the buyer, not the seller. Like you, I'm sure some dealerships wished they had taken my "one offer" deal, as I ended up finding one that would. Perhaps I also paid a couple of shillings than someone across the country did, too. But, it makes me happy, and a quick (albeit skinny) deal usually makes the dealer happy. Keep us posted on the "deals".

    baldar....nothing really to add to what abacomike said, other than no money changed hands and no new car was driven off the dealers lot that you took delivery of. So, there's really no commitment on either end as far as I can see.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
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