Stories from the Sales Frontlines

imidazol97 · March 2013

>sent a letter to NBC criticizing how the story was reported

LOL. If you can fix NBC's problems with how they report things, you'll get a gold star in my book. I believe NBC Progressive is now completely owned by Comcast. Comcast wouldn't even accept complaints about NBC Progressive's bias.

sterlingdog · March 2013

"Wow, I didn't realize there are so many cheapskates out there." "I have a buzzy head from all that driving."

If you weren't such a cheapskate, and spent an extra night on the road, you wouldn't have a buzzy head. :P

Richard

abacomike · March 2013

Did I miss something or did you mis type?

No, you are correct. I was about $5000 away from what he wanted. Even if we were closer in numbers, I wouldn't sell that car to him (Infiniti M45 was the car he wanted) if he begged me. He ended up selling both cars privately and bought a Mercedes for him and his wife.

NYC: I was manager of an Infiniti dealership. He bought an LS430 from me when I was a salesman back in 2002. He was just as bad then - made my life miserable. I sold my Dad a Lexus in 2001, an M45 in 2005, and an M35 in 2006 - it was a 2007.

abacomike · March 2013

Don't know whether it was a freudian slip, but I think you meant "baubles" (showy trinkets of little value, but now often used to describe pearls and other fine jewelry)

Gogi, you might be right about that. My brother goes through wives like I go through cars. He may be getting married again - he bought his significant other a 2.5 carat diamond ring in December - she is a nurse. I don't think they have set a date though.

His first wife got 2 million from him as part of the divorce settlement. His second wife got 3 million from him. A drop in the bucket for him.

He drives a 2013 Mercedes bi-turbo CL. They go for about $135,000.

sterlingdog · March 2013

I just don't know why my convertible and my wife can't get along. I've finally lost count of the incidents between these two---utility pole, stuck in the mud, dog poop, spilled ice tea, grocery cart, etc. I've always been able to repair/restore the rag top to its original beauty. This time I'm stuck. About a month ago, my wife parks the convertible at the church near some trees. She volunteers in the church office one morning a week. When she came out at lunch time, she discovered that the car was covered in bird crap. I have never seen such a mess in my life; it was everywhere! When she came home, I drove immediatley to the car wash. They did a nice job cleaning the car, but five stains were left on the black cloth top. The bird crap was white but the stains were sort of a gold color. A few days later I returned to the car wash. They tried to remove the stains without much luck. The stains are now white with some streaking around them. If any of you have any suggestions as to what to do, please let me know. As Houdini has said, I need to get rid of that car. In all of the cars that we have ever owned, I have never known my wife to have so many episodes of bad luck. Thank goodness there have been no incidents with the Caddy.

Richard

driver100 · March 2013

If you weren't such a cheapskate, and spent an extra night on the road, you wouldn't have a buzzy head.

I know you are only joking, but it isn't the cost of an extra night in a hotel. It is the fact it is a hotel. I'd much rather be at home (either home), than be in a hotel room. A hotel room is like being in limbo......just a bed and a TV (a book and computer), but, at home you can at least wander from room to room. You can get a snack when you ~~need~~ want it. You have real chairs you can sit on. You have a bed you really like. Your home is comfortable because you made it the way you want it.

I was surprised, at least two of my Apollo Beach FL tennis snowbird friends drive 19 hours so they can be home the same day - one in Pennsylvania and one in Ohio. I am sure they don't want the expense of paying for a hotel, but, they are just on the borderline of; is it worth it to spend a wasted evening in a hotel room, or, if you drive for 4 more hours you could be back at home sweet home.

sterlingdog · March 2013

The next time that you need postage stamps, you might drop by the post office. They have a new series of Muscle Car stamps from the '60s. They're really cool. I bought a sheet of 20. My wife won't use them, but I do.

Richard

sterlingdog · March 2013

I agree. I've done the same thing. The sweet vision of home enables you to keep going.

Richard

driver100 · March 2013

The stains are now white with some streaking around them. If any of you have any suggestions as to what to do, please let me know.

I could suggest that you leave the car under the tree until the roof is completely coated, and then the new color may even out.

Unfortunately, when we came back home, my computer server, is very slow. I called yesterday, they tested the line, and they agree. They will send "a guy" out tomorrow to check it out. So, I am limited in what I can find out for you.
Suggest, you google "how to remove bird dropping (or crap as you so elegantly put it Mr. B.A. in English) from a convertible roof.

I did get this one site that wasn't great, there may be better ones.
Remove bird crap stains from a convertible roof

Good luck. Isn't that supposed to mean you are going to have good luck?
Maybe, I see a new GM in your future...don't get the vinyl roof though.

jayrider · March 2013

Ask your car dealer who details their cars. Check to see what a professional can do with the stains. A total detail is around $120 ---- you will think you bought a new car -- well worth it.

imidazol97 · March 2013

Find a shop that does convertible tops or vinyl roofs like we used to have--or a shop that does detailing, like your car wash. There may be cleaners that can be used. I tried googling in your town and only found Carey's. Everyone else is farther away.

I had a vinyl roof back in the day and found a nearby shop that installed them. They sold me a cleaner they used for maintenance by the gallon. Nothing over-the-counter would clean into the little grooves that give it texture even with a fine brush, but that cleaner that was just the thing to easily clean.

I'm concerned that the car wash folks didn't know what to do... that's a bad sign. Maybe it can be touched up with black in spots--a Sharpie pen maybe?

Good luck.

The whitening might possibly be bleaching? Bad Birds. :mad:

tjc78 · March 2013

Bird droppings have acid in them, most likely it's discolored. I had a bird dropping actually etch the clear coat on my 2003 Avalon. To be fair, it was summer and parked at the airport for a week without any shade.

bwia · March 2013

If any of you have any suggestions as to what to do, please let me know.

Try green or black tea. Soak the teabags in hot water then apply to the stained area. It should work like a charm. By the way, this remedy is also good for getting rid of puffy eye bags.

imidazol97 · March 2013

>Try green or black tea.

Isn't the green tea healthier?

explorerx4 · March 2013

Richard,
Bird poop is organic, so it may break down over time.
I would put some warm water in a spray bottle of wet one of the spots, letting it sit for a minute or two.
Then put some dish washing soap or shampoo on an old tooth brush and just brush it, but not with a lot of force. Let it sit for a minute, go over it again with the toothbrush, then spray some water on it and wipe off the area a few times.
Let it dry completely, and see if it looks any different than the other spots before spending a lot of money.
I think that fits in with the cheapskate theme going on lately.

fezo · March 2013

Try these folks.

They have all sorts of convertible top cleaners and protectors.

abacomike · March 2013

If any of you have any suggestions as to what to do, please let me know

I am sure you've tried vinegar diluted in water for the stain. I wonder if you could apply bleach to the entire top. I used to use Armorall on my vinyl roofs to protect the top - it did work.

Bird droppings are acidic and eat into the paint and rag tops. That's why I keep a bottle of Maguires polish and cleaner in my car with several terry cloth cotton rags I bought at Target. As soon as I see a "bird turd" on my car, I immediately apply the polish and remove the turd. Even though today's cars have many layers of clear coat on them, it can still eat away into the paint if you don't remover it as soon as possible.

Black, dark gray, dark blue and dark green painted cars show every scratch and discoloration.

I love Maguires products - the polishers and cleaners are outstanding. I can even remove bits of tar from the road with their products.

driver100 · March 2013

Try green or black tea. Soak the teabags in hot water then apply to the stained area.

But, will these tea bags be reuseable?

roadburner · March 2013

I use the Raggtopp cleaner as well as their protectant on my Jeep's soft top; it has worked very well for me, but I haven't had to deal with severe staining.

isellhondas · March 2013

A guy I know recently had a cat kill and tear apart a bird on top of his 300Z convertable. He said it resembled a crime scene.

Hey, does anyone know hpw to remove hazing and scratches on a plastic convertable rear window? I had an estimate of 900.00 to replace the rear window on our money pit BMW! The top itself is still in great shape!

abacomike · March 2013

When I first started working in the car business, they trained us effectively to be very careful about reading and recording VIN numbers on title applications, loan and lease documents and registration documents. Just one number or letter transposed can create havoc for the dealership and the customer. No matter how careful we are in getting the 17 character VIN correctly transposed in those documents, we are still human beings and human beings make mistakes. Remember, the F&I people in the dealership use computers, of course, as they print those documents in their offices. But, the initial responsibility lies with the salesman in correctly copying the VIN to the handwritten buyers order. Remember, I am going back 14 years when networks were not as sophisticated as they are now.

I had a very nice customer come in with his best friend. They both had Infiniti Q45's and they swore by them. We walked the new car lot (we had over 1000 new cars on our lot) and looked for an LS430 that suited him. He selected a pearl off-white sedan nicely equipped. After the demo drive, he said he definitely wanted the car (the 2002-2007 LS430's were the best riding and handling cars Lexus ever made).

As we were about to drive over to the "get ready detail department", his friend decided to buy one also. He asked the buyer if he would be upset if he got the same color. The buyer said no problem. So his friend asked me if I had another car just like the one his friend was buying. I checked inventory and found four more just like it. So we drove over to the lot and selected the car he wanted. I drove them back to the showroom and I took the cars over to the detail department.

As I was trained to do, I copied the VIN's off both cars making sure I got them exact. I won't go into the details of pricing the cars because I sold them the cars for the exact same price since the cars were identical including options and equipment.

Needless to say, I recorded the vehicles to the wrong buyers - the VIN's were the same except for the last 2 numbers.

About a month later, both customers came storming in to the dealership advising us that when they contacted their insurance companies and read the VIN numbers, they did not match the registrations. In other words, buyer #1 was driving buyer #2's car and vise versa. The cars had been titled and registered incorrectly. The loan document were also messed up.

To solve this problem, I had to redo both deals and send corrected VIN's to the banks, the State of Florida, etc. It was a nightmare to say the least. The management of the dealership was not happy at all. To make amends, we gave both customers free maintenance in their cars for as long as they owned them. And who do you think had to pay for that? You guessed right - they took it right out of the commission I earned on both cars.

I learned that lesson the hard way. So when I became a sales manager and did the training of all salesmen, I related the above story to impress upon them the importance of making sure the VIN is read on the car on the driver's side dashboard and then written down precisely as it is shown. In that way, you have "touched" the car and made sure it was the correct VIN.

jayrider · March 2013

You can search -- convertible plastic window restoration for diy info. The pro detailers do it -- so check with your old car contacts to find someone who does it right.

abacomike · March 2013

Hey, does anyone know hpw to remove hazing and scratches on a plastic convertable rear window? I had an estimate of 900.00 to replace the rear window on our money pit BMW! The top itself is still in great shape!

It is impossible to remove scratches on that plastic rear window. As for the hazing, they have products available to remove hazing on front plastic headlight lenses.

I thought most convertible rear windows were made out of heavy-duty glass. I guess there are still manufacturers who don't want to design the folding mechanisms to accommodate glass. My 1967 Pontiac Bonneville convertible had a tempered glass rear window. My Triumph TR6 had a plastic rear window.

But as for scratches, you'll have to live with them.

boomchek · March 2013

If worse comes to worse you can try guys that fix interior plastic trim and carpets. They can try to lightly spray paint the affected area. At least that's what they did to interior discolored carpets and scratched plastic trim.

Or if that doesn't work, just sew in a good ol' elbow patch :P

boomchek · March 2013

Many convertibles in the 80s and 90s came with plastic rear windows. I don't think scratches can ever be removed, hazing maybe with the same stuff that clears up headlight hazing probably.

boomchek · March 2013

Ouch, that sucked!

I can see it happening with two buyers and two identical cars. Expensive lesson to remember for you and good thing they didn't get into accidents otherwise it might have been an even costlier issue.

isellhondas · March 2013

The BMW is a 1998. The newer ones have glass now and I was told that a glass one can't be installed in ours.

abacomike · March 2013

The BMW is a 1998. The newer ones have glass now and I was told that a glass one can't be installed in ours.

They use tempered glass, for obvious reasons. As for glass replacement for your BMW, a convertible top with a glass rear window is more difficult to engineer and design because it is rigid and must be folded carefully whereas a plastic window is more flexible.

I thought BMW convertibles are hardtops - right? Like the Lexus, VW, and Infiniti. Mercedes, for some strange reason, has not gone the hardtop route in its convertible E Class. I believe they have two tops for the SL550, one which comes off and one that is fabric.

driver100 · March 2013

I thought BMW convertibles are hardtops - right?

Yes, the 3 Series has a hardtop convertible...since 2008. Isell's is a 1998 model so has plastic. Not the cars fault, that's what they used. Maybe there is a newer better plastic replacement window they have these days.

stickguy · March 2013

that was the same issue with my RDX purchase last year. salesman error, that no one down the line caught.

if you don't remember that one, that was when the dealer started the deal on 1 of 2 identical units, until the internet guy discovered mine was parked at the remote lot. So, he switches the deal to be the one right at the dealership.

but somehow, the salesguy that inherited the deal along the way didn't make the change in the computer, so everything goes through on car 1. Took them almost 2 weeks before they (actually, I) figured it out.

lucky for them, it was only a pain for me, having to go back to return car 1 for car 2, that I owned all along!

abacomike · March 2013

that was the same issue with my RDX purchase last year. salesman error, that no one down the line caught.

Actually, stickguy, I do not remember that story. But it sounds very much like what I experienced except both cars were sold at the same time. If I was selling only one car, I would not have made that error.

Best part of that situation is that both customers were delighted with their new cars.

sterlingdog · March 2013

"How to remove bird dropping (or crap as you so elegantly put it Mr. B.A. in English) from a convertible top."

That would be Mr. M.A. in English thank you very much. I used "crap" because I am pissed about the stains. For you, we'll use "excrement" if that makes you feel better.

Thanks for the web site.

Richard

abacomike · March 2013

That would be Mr. M.A. in English thank you very much. I used "crap" because I am pissed about the stains. For you, we'll use "excrement" if that makes you feel better.

Removing "whatever you want to call it" from a convertible top is one thing - getting rid of the stains from years of baking in the sun is quite another.

As for what to call those drops of intestinal excretions from birds, we can learn a lot from the "Harry Potter" books and movies - they would never mention the name "Valdermort", but preferred to call him "You Know Who!" So instead of using the inappropriate vernacular "s__t", we will call it YOU KNOW WHAT!

driver100 · March 2013

That would be Mr. M.A. in English thank you very much.

I am really LMAO with your last post.

It reminds me, there was a retired doctor playing on the tennis court next to us in Florida, and people were calling him Dr. Joe. We thought it was a bit strange, that a retired Dr would still use Dr in his name.

I once had a neighbor who was a retired prof, and he wanted to be referred to as Dr. Watson. He wasn't even a medical doctor and he was using his Dr. handle, even in retirement.

I hope you don't go around asking to be called Richard M.A.

dino001 · March 2013

We all know business theory that existing customer is more important than new and as such should get better consideration. Yet, wherever I go, I see evidence that companies think exactly the opposite. Already a customer? Here is our special existing customer plan with highest price we can think of. Not a customer? We have real specials for you. Latest installment, my antivirus renewal. Just got a nice autorenewal email with price over 20% higher regular price of the box version of the same programs old at local Costco and over twice when the box was on sale with coupon. I expected that so I bought that box then so I can put it at a renewal, but it just ticks me off with no end that nobody there would have an idea to offer me similar/same renewal price without having to buy "new" again. Needles to say the autorenewal is gone from my account.

I see same behavior with many other businesses. The moment they hear customer loyalty, they hear you aren't going anywhere so let me raise my price.

isellhondas · March 2013

I've noticed that the hardtop convertables suffer from less rear seat room than mine has which is bad enough as it is!

gogiboy · March 2013

"Hey, does anyone know hpw to remove hazing and scratches on a plastic convertable rear window?"

isell--

You don't mention how bad (deep) the scratches are or how many. As an artist, I often have to "touch-up" plexiglas on my framed artwork as many, many individuals who visit galleries and museum don't know museum etiquette. I often have scratches, nose and finger prints, etc, etc.

For a number of years I have been using this mix of abrasives/cleaners made by Novus (usually only sold at glass/plastic retailers. They make it in several grades. Depending how bad the scratches are you could start with #3 (heavy scratch remover, followed by #2 and then #1, which is primarily a cleaner and reducer of static. Be prepared for some elbow grease.

I have had good success so it might be worth your while as long as they are fairly superficial. Certainly a set of 2 oz. bottles will set you back much less than a $90 replacement. If you search Amazon you will find a lot of reviews. Some love it, some don't. I think much depends on both the depth of scratch and the type of plastic (acrylics, lucites, lexans) as to how well it performs. I have heard some stories of it being used to repair old CDs and DVDs. For me it also worked great on a pair of plastic magnifiers and reading glasses that had gotten pretty beat up.

Gogiboy

isellhondas · March 2013

You know, I don't think my rear window is actually "scratched". It's more like it has hazing or cloudiness more than anything else.

It's getting harder to see out of.

Someone suggest a product made by Meguires that is designed for this but I'll look into the Novus products too and I think you for that suggestion.

Of course, none of this matters since the tabs expired in September and it flunked it's emission test AGAIN!! Long story but this car is being so typical of a German car!

explorerx4 · March 2013

I've used car polish to get a scratched CD working again.

driver100 · March 2013

I've noticed that the hardtop convertables suffer from less rear seat room than mine has which is bad enough as it is!

Rear seat is only for emergencies.....or for carrying tiny objects or small dogs.

If a real person were to get in there, you would never pry them out. You would have to be a contortionist to actually be able to get inside.

My thinking was, I wanted a convertible, I would only consider a hardtop convertible (don't want to mess around with a slashed roof or bird ah er excrement stains, a la Mr. M.A.), a Mercedes 2 seater would cost about $5000 more, and I really need the backseat to take the dog and odd things like tennis equipment around.

Remember, the scratchy rear window isn't really the cars fault, that's how they made them back then. Probably someone sells replacement windows at a reasonable price.

driver100 · March 2013

Well, my slow speed is now extra fast. The cable guy said we had a rebuilt modem and that wasn't working properly. And then the part of the cable that plugs into the wall was all chipped and broken (they installed it), and it was a miracle we were getting any signal at all (they installed that too).

Like Dino says, no one cares about their current customers, companies are only interested in new customers.

houdini1 · March 2013

the scratchy rear window isn't really the cars fault, that's how they made them back then.

I'll try that excuse on my wife the next time she complains about me or something I've done !! I am sure she will understand.

stickguy · March 2013

who cares about the window? It is a convertible, you are supposed to have the top down!

driver100 · March 2013

I'll try that excuse on my wife the next time she complains about me or something I've done !! I am sure she will understand.

Yeh, your warranty expired. :P

isellhondas · March 2013

Actually, I've ridden in the back seat of our BMW and it's not that bad. I'm 5'11 and if I was much taller it would be a different story.

stickguy · March 2013

just another reason the top is supposed to be down. Unlimited headroom!

jwm40517 · March 2013

Over the past few years I have watched my cable & internet bill go from $80 to $158 and then to $173 last month. As I was writing my $173 check a commercial for my cable company was offering close to the services I have for $75 to NEW customers.
Went out and bought an antenna & was impressed with the free HD network shows. I gathered up my DVR boxes and other stuff & went to the office to quit cable.

Told them I was quitting the cable but keeping internet and I was quitting because of the always increasing prices to a 20 year customer & cheap deals for new customers. They offered me a $108 rate to stay. Quite a saving but was "kicking myself" all the way home for caving in. That is good for a year and will quit them if they increase a lot next time.

abacomike · March 2013

Knowing when to settle when negotiating a deal in a car dealership is, perhaps, the most under-appreciated skill in car-buying as well as in buying anything where negotiations determine the final price of a product or service. An example of losing a deal because of the lack of this skill took place when I was a sales manager in my last dealership.

A middle-aged man walked into the showroom one weekday evening at about 7:00 PM. One of the salesmen greeted him and did a good product presentation as well as demo drive in a G35 Sedan. The customer had selected a medium gray sedan loaded with just about every option including interior wood trim and navigation. He had a trade - a 3-year-old Chevy Impala with 45,000+ miles on it. The salesman brought the trade appraisal sheet to me which I gave to the new used car manager. When he finished his appraisal, he completed the appraisal form and handed it to me. The ACV on the Impala was $14,000. I gave the 4-square to the salesman showing a cash difference of $27,000 plus tax, tags and dealer fees. I had given the customer a $1000 discount on the new car and had given him the full ACV of $14,000. The condition of the trade was "fair" with a few nicks and scratches and minor dents.

The salesman comes back and tells me the customer won't pay a penny more than $22,000 plus tax, tags and fees (or as we called it +++). It was obvious I needed to get involved right away because we were thousands below invoice on the new car and I needed to find out how he arrived at that number.

I walk over with the salesman to the customer. I sit down and after about 5 minutes of getting acquainted and reducing the anxiety level, I ask him how he arrived at that number. He tells me his trade is worth $16,000 and he expected a $4000 discount on the new car. I shared with him that his trade had some damage - and that if his trade was "clean" it would be worth $16,000. But in its present condition, $14,000 was all the money on his trade, which it was. He told me he could sell his car privately for $16,000, and that is what he wanted from me. I then asked him how he came up with a $4000 discount on the new car. He said that he thought the cost of the car to the dealership was $36,000 and he felt that a $2000 profit to the dealership was generous on his part. I could feel the tension in the air, so I told him if I could check on something at the desk, I'd be right back.

I asked the used car manager if there was any more money he could put on the trade. He said that $14,000 was all the money on the car. He said we would have to wholesale the car and he was hoping he could get $14,000. The average auction value was $13,500-$14,000. So I couldn't give the guy any more for his trade. The invoice on the new car was $38,250. So the customer was trying to buy the car (steal the car is probably more precise) for over $2000+ under invoice.

I go back to the customer and salesman and ask them to join me in my office. When we get there, I pull up Manheim on my computer and showed the customer the average that his car was bringing at the auctions. I then pull up the new car on my computer and I show him real invoice. I further explain that I can't get a penny more for his car and that I was willing to sell him the new car for $200 over invoice, or $24,450+++. Remember, if we don't get $14,000 for the trade at the auction, we would lose money on the deal, but I was willing to take that chance to sell a car late at night just before closing.

The customer looks over my figures and tells me that he was not accepting my offer and that if I couldn't meet his price of $22,000+++, he would go to a competing dealer and buy the car there. I thanked him for coming in and wished him best of luck at the other dealership but that when he leaves tonight, I could not sell him the car at that price tomorrow or next week (I was not going to take the chance of losing money on the deal again). He says he understands.

Two days later, this same customer comes in and asks to speak with me. I escort him to my office and he asks me if I could sell him the car for $24,000+++ and if I would, he would buy the car.u I reminded him that I was selling him the new car for $200 over invoice and that I would not honor that price once he left the dealership. He then offers me $24,500+++, or a few bucks more, and I said I could not accept his offer. (I knew that no other dealership would sell him the same car for the price I agreed to). He then raises his offer to $25,000+++. When he did that, I knew the other dealership(s) appraised his trade for much less than we did, and because of that, I decided that I should reduce the ACV to $13,200 just to be safe. I told him the best I could do was $25,550+++. He was shocked and surprised I had raised the price of the car more than $1000 in just 2 days. He asked me why? I told him I had reappraised his car at $13,200 and that I needed to make a profit of $500.00 on the car. He told me he would accept the deal and we sold the car for $25,550.00+++.

Here is an example of a dealership willing to take a risk at possibly losing money in order to make a late night deal to hit some unit goals - and an example of a customer who could have bought a car at or below invoice and was too stupid or ignorant or both to know when he had the deal of the century.

By the way, we wholesaled his trade for $13,450 a few days later. If he had taken the first deal I offered him, I would have lost $550+ on the deal!

I always found that I would make customers great deals just before closing time because if I didn't, the customer rarely came back to buy the car. I always had the customer sign a clause at the bottom of the 4-square stating that he knew that the offer we had made on the car would not be honored after they left the dealership. The reason we did that was to ensure we did not lose money on deals at a later date and to provide the customer with an offer that was truly a one time offer to buy NOW!

mako1a · March 2013

The average auction value was $13,500-$14,000.

I need to start buying at Manheim. Where is this Manheim store?

graphicguy · March 2013

Mako....Manheim is a large auction house with auction sites throughout the country. To my knowledge, it's onl for dealers, though.

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