Stories from the Sales Frontlines

dino001 · July 2013

I think the battery swap is a great idea on a surface, similar to propane gas bottle exchange, but there may be issues to overcome. Suppose you have a brand new car with new battery. Then you come and they put an older one, later you get a newer one. Propane tank cost is incidental to the gas itself, considering multiple exchanges. Batteries, not so much. They age and older ones will hold charge less effectively, so there is potential arbitrage on new vs. old battery. It will not be a problem in first couple of years, but IF the solution propagates, there will be mix of new and old batteries. Once people realize that, there can be attempts to game the market, claims of being stiffed or otherwise wronged. The battery depraciation will have to be resolved in exchange system.

abacomike · July 2013

This sales story from my past life as a sales manager was recollected while I was at my Mercedes dealership the other day. Several of the salesmen who currently work there used to work for me at my dealership between 2004 and 2008. One of them approached me to relay a "deja vu" experience he had with a customer, the same customer we both worked with back in 2007 - a young customer who had come in to my dealership to buy a new coupe.

He was met at the door by this salesman who showed him the coupe and had taken him on a demo drive. When they came back from the test drive, he showed the salesman his business card. The salesman came to my office and showed me the card. He was a sales manager at a Lexus dealership way out in southwest Broward Cointy. I went out to greet him and brought the salesman and the customer back to my office. He wanted to buy the car for my invoice which was $3500+ below MSRP. I told him that the owner of the dealership provides employee pricing as a courtesy to managers and salesmen who worked in dealerships in southeast Florida, which was $250 over dead cost to cover the minimum commission for the salesman and internal costs. He agreed and the salesman took him to his desk to begin the paperwork.

When my salesman asked him for his drivers license and insurance card, several things had fallen out of his wallet - business cards from several new car dealerships naming him as a sales manager. My salesman came in to tell me what he had seen. I scratched my head and decided to call the Lexus dealership he said he worked for to verify his employment there. When I did, no one there knew who this guy was and verified that he was not an employee of that dealership.

I got up from my desk, walked out to the customer and explained to him what I had done and that since he had lied about his employment, I was not able to sell him the car at any price. My salesman stated he had seen several business cards fall out of his wallet naming him as a sales manager at several other dealerships. He then admitted to us that he did not work in the automobile industry, but that he was an insurance salesman just trying to get a great deal on a new car. I then promptly threw him out of my dealership.

As I mentioned at the beginning of this story, the salesman at Mercedes (who used to work for me) saw this same guy try to pass himself off as a sales manager at a BMW dealership, business card and all - a kind of "deja vu"! We both laughed while reminiscing our experience with him way back when. Luckily, they didn't get taken in by this guy.

He must be counterfeiting business cards to pass himself off as a big shot in a dealership so he could "steal" a car from some unsuspecting dealership. My guess is that he must have succeeded several times since he was still working his scam 8 years later at a Mercedes dealership.

I guess people will do almost anything at times to get a great deal on a car. And the most hilarious part of all this is that he could probably get that deal, or any other deal, by just simple negotiation, research and shopping. Small world this car business is!

tjc78 · July 2013

Couldn't they just offer exchanges of similar age stamped batteries? There would have to be a way to avoid getting an old battery.

What they actually need is a quick high current (while staying safe) recharge. I'm thinking something that could maybe get the battery to 80% or so in 15 minutes.

imidazol97 · July 2013

>He must be counterfeiting business cards to pass himself off as a big shot in a dealership so he could "steal" a car from some unsuspecting dealership. My guess is that he must have succeeded several times since he was still working his scam 8 years later at a Mercedes dealership.

I don't find this business card scam surprising in the least. A close friend of ours was a large office supply box store manager in Dayton metro area. He said that half of the population of the urban part of town had been in to get cards made up showing them as a pastor of a church. There must be some ability to save money on taxes if you declare yourself a pastor is what our friend assumed. Unless the Mercedes/BMW dealers were giving discounts to pastors.

tjc78 · July 2013

I've been really busy so never told this story. As we talk about all the time, used car values are pretty much stupid these days. All you have to do is troll Craig's and look for 2-3k cars and they are trash.

So..... My sister in law who doesn't have any money needed a car. No credit, not much cash so what to do? She tried a "buy here pay here" and yes they would get her into a car but at a huge cost (like probably 30% above what the sucker is worth).

I went out on a search and couldn't believe the garbage in the 2-3k range. I ended up finding a 99 Century (beige/beige) with a little over 100k with everything working including a/C. It was listed at 2800. Since I had to be out of town, my wife and SIL went to look it over sent me pictures etc. it checked out, older man driven one owner. I told my wife to offer 2400. Guy wouldn't budge, so I said wave 2600 cash in the guy's face. Still wouldn't budge, he caved at 2700 which judging by what it out there, they did fine. So far the car is serving her well. Very boring, but safe for a young girl and infant.

stickguy · July 2013

you are making me think I should of held out for more when I sold my Integra. though entirely possible if you had come to see it you would have put it in your trash pile...

I am still happy to have freed up a garage space and some cash, so not really worried about it. But man, did I get a lot of hits on that.

gogiboy · July 2013

"Well Celine Dion was part of the joke as well - right??"

Driver--

Your statement about Beiber and Dion reminded me of a funny back and forth between Canadian and American border patrol agents fighting over an arrest on the Niagara River above the falls in an episode of The Simpsons.

American patrolman: "Beat it you puck smacking maple sucker!"
Canadian Patrolman: "Take a hike you Shatner stealing Mexico touchers!"

Gogiboy

explorerx4 · July 2013

Four months ago, I traded in my '11 Explorer and got what I thought was pretty good money for it.
According to the dealer website, they haven't sold it yet, but they are asking more money than when it was originally offered.
The property tax on my 91 Mustang went up 30% from last year, although not a big number.
The property tax on my '02 Explorer went up too, but not as much.

oldfarmer50 · July 2013

"...99 Buick Century with a little over 100k...listed at $2800..."

That's actually not bad if it's not a rust bucket. (I wouldn't touch one from NY) While that era Century was not a bad car I actually have an interest in the previous generation on my list of bargain transportation vehicles.

This generation was the best selling Buick for many years:
http://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/cto/3892332010.html

Your 99 was probably a good deal at $2700:
http://sarasota.craigslist.org/cto/3848401588.html

driver100 · July 2013

American patrolman: "Beat it you puck smacking maple sucker!"
Canadian Patrolman: "Take a hike you Shatner stealing Mexico touchers!"

That is cute....sometimes the Simpsons nail it.

I forgot to mention William Shatner and Leslie Nielson.

Martin Short and Eugene Levy went to my high school.

driver100 · July 2013

Sarasota! A Florida Buick...it has got almost wire wheels on it, just needs a vinyl roof and you would be all set.

bwia · July 2013

Good news as we celebrate the 4th. of July. Thanks in part to the auto bailout (?) and to the many new and fuel efficient vehicles hitting the market.

Auto sales grew 9.2 percent during June to 1.4 million vehicles, compared with about 1.28 million in the same month a year ago, according to the Autodata Corporation and the NYT.

But the bigger surprise was the closely watched seasonally adjusted annual sales rate, which came close to 16 million vehicles during the month  the highest level recorded since 2007.

Sales at the Detroit Big 3:
GM --- 265,000 units, up 6.5%
Ford---235,000 units, up 13.4%
Chrysler  156,000 units, up 8.2%

The foreign brands did very well also except for Hyundai and VW:
Toyota  195,000 units, up 9.8%
Honda  137,000 units, up 9.7%
Nissan  104,000 units, up 12.9%
Hyundai  65,000 units, up 1.9%
VW  sales fell by 0.3 percent

Sales of electrics were up sharply. The Nissan Leaf was up 315 percent and GMs Volt was up 53.0%. Thanks to incentives?

What is driving this demand? According to the NYT, analysts said the results were an indication of an industry hitting a sweet spot in its comeback, because of a combination of pent-up consumer demand, more available credit and a plethora of new products.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/03/business/a-stronger-economy-lifts-june-auto-sa- - les.html?src=recg

oldfarmer50 · July 2013

"...Nissan Leaf was up 315% and GM's Volt was up 53%..."

So what's that mean, they sold about a dozen between the two? :P

I tried to get enthusiastic about electric cars but there's just too many limitations to make them practical outside of major urban areas. And in urban areas public transit is superior to the cars.

oldfarmer50 · July 2013

"...a Florida Buick..."

If you were in modest financial circumstances which would you rather pay to repair, a 14yo Buick or a 14yo BMW?

driver100 · July 2013

If you were in modest financial circumstances which would you rather pay to repair, a 14yo Buick or a 14yo BMW?

Definitely the Buick, if I had to.

driver100 · July 2013

We are off to Chicago just for 2 days...will try to do waterfront boat tour and achitectural tour if at all possible.

I was charging up the Netbook and the mouse isn't working, but you can work it by touching the pad. We aren't great at that. The mouse was working fine a few weeks ago, not it doesn't seem to work at all.

Is there a setting I can go to to get the mouse going again?

stickguy · July 2013

this a wired or wireless mouse? If wireless, check battery.

also, look for a switch on the mouse that turns it off. maybe that happened inadvertently.

driver100 · July 2013

Thanks stick........it is not wireless.

I'll check to see if the mouse could be off......but it does light up blue when plugged in. Also tried an old larger mouse and it didn't work either.

stickguy · July 2013

if it is USB, and you have another port, try that.

also the obvious, reboot and see what happens.

I have no idea what settings you might want to check on one of those.

abacomike · July 2013

Martin Short and Eugene Levy went to my high school.

Sheldon Leonard (producer/director of the Dick Van [non-permissible content removed] show) and James Cagney were both graduates of my High School - Peter Stuyvesant High School in Manhattan. It was a specialized Math and Science magnate for all 5 boroughs of New York City.

Happy Canada Day, driver!

[Deleted User] · July 2013

My dad and I dropped by a Tesla "store" yesterday to check on the S model. He's still in the market for a luxury car and has been leaning towards a MB. We stopped by rather casually to see what all the fuss has been about, and I walked out thinking I've seen a glimpse of a potential new future for vehicles.

The non-dealership experience was refreshing and I'd like to see it extended to other makes. No pressure, just experts on-hand to answer questions and keep kiddies from destroying a $90,000 car. Exterior color options, interior trim, and example cars were all on display. A couple of Macs were available to order cars from, and test-drive appointments could be set up. Almost like an Apple store. There was also a skeleton vehicle available that had no sheet metal, but rather the aluminum subframe unibody, suspension components, and the drivetrain. The skeleton highlighted how simple these cars are.

People hopped in and out of the three versions on the floor, which were fully powered to tryout the electronics, but "ignitions" were disabled. In the parking garage they had half a dozen charge ports that Tesla owners could use for quick charging.

The standard chargers replenish the onboard batteries at a rate of 31 miles per hour while the fastest ones can charge hundreds of miles in something like half an hour. The fastest charging rate taxes the battery pack, though, so they recommend sticking to 31 to 62 miles per hour. 220V power is needed, and speed of recharge depends on amperage. 31 miles at 40 amps and 62 miles at 80 amps.

One neat store display was a mileage estimator. An interactive monitor allows you to change critical parameters, such as average speed driven, outside temperature, driving conditions, and AC on/off. We were able to adjust the conditions to fluctuate mileage from about 240 miles to 350 miles. Colder temps seemed to have the biggest negative impact.

The car is simply stunning. Or rather, simple and stunning. The dash has precisely two electromechanical buttons, one to open the glove box and the other to illuminate emergency flashers. There are additional buttons on the steering wheel but everything else is accessed and displayed through the interactive touchscreen HD monitor built into the center dash.

Almost every piece of metal in the car is aluminum. There are a couple of steel bits here and there, such as an impact beam under the front bumper, but by and large everything else from the body panels to the suspension to the belly pan are various forms of aluminum. It exudes quality and style.

When locked, the aluminum door handles sit flush with the body panels, and when unlocked they extend out about an inch. They're electromechanical, so a slight tug activates servos that unlatch the door. The interior door handles are similarly electromechanical. The recharge port is neatly hidden behind the drivers side rear taillight, and it opens when in proximity of the Tesla charging plug-in.

There are two trunks, a huge one under the back hatch, and a smaller one under the front hood. One of the advantages of having no engine. All the batteries are located in the body pan between the wheels, keeping the center of gravity exceptionally low. The suspension struts are enormous and air driven, which means ride height can be adjusted.

The gear selector looks like a turn signal. Toggle it up or down for Drive or Reverse, and push it in to engage Park, and activating Park causes a second set of calipers on the rear disks to clamp down. The brakes are huge. Enormous. Which is ironic since almost all typical braking is accomplished by regenerative braking, and Tesla estimates pads won't need replacement until well after 100,000 miles in normal driving.

The only standard fluid replacement is the window washing fluid. Literally, it's the only fluid that a user will fill. What a wild concept.

Build time is currently at two months and we're seeing about two to three Tesla owners driving around in this area each day.

I genuinely hope this concept succeeds, both the store concept and the fully electric high mileage battery powered car. Ultimately we need better electrical storage than lithium ion since lithium supply is rather limited. The Tesla S is a good step in the right direction away from petrochemical ICE. Ultimately I believe multiple propulsion models will be needed, and electic will be a good option for many situations. Tesla is creating the excitement needed to march towards the tipping point that will eventually come, proving non-ICE can be luxurious and exciting, better than the very best in many regards. There's a long way to go, but I'm hopeful Tesla will help in the societal shift that will be needed to eliminate big oil from our lives.

abacomike · July 2013

Tesla will help in the societal shift that will be needed to eliminate big oil from our lives

Tyguy, stupendous review of the Tesla impact and specificity of their marketing strategy and business model - sounds like we are only a few years away from that move from ICE's to Electric. I can't wait to visit their new store in Boca Raton when it opens shortly.

Thanks for the great report on your experiences.

BTW, tell your Dad that the new MB E350 Sport Sedan is still making me a "...most happy fella! A must see and drive!

oldfarmer50 · July 2013

"...Tesla will help in the societal shift that will be needed to eliminate big oil from our lives..."

I've got no problem with societal shifts as long as it comes from market forces and not the barrel of a gun. Barring a huge increase in the cost of hydrocarbon fuel or new developments in battery technology (I share your concern about lithium supply) I just don't see it happening.

Also, electric cars are not the environmental saviors they are made out to be. I've read various studies that detail pollution and disposal costs that are equal to current fossil fuel vehicles.

I hope that they can develop the hydrogen fuel cell for cars in the near future. Now that would be a game changer when the only exhaust would be water.

bwia · July 2013

Mike, great review and far more in depth and comprehensive than I have read elsewhere. Finally, it appears that you have become a BEV convert. Welcome to the growing crowd of enthusiasts. And what a nice way to acknowledge Nikola Tesla on his upcoming birthday on July 10, he would be proud of his legacy. By the way, to extend range, was there any talk or demonstration on the ability to swap batteries?

driver100 · July 2013

also the obvious, reboot and see what happens.

I'll check the reboot idea...that one is worth a try.

I thought there might be a "shut off mouse" option somewhere that we accidentally pushed. I'll try the reboot and other ports, and if worse comes to worse I'll have to use the touch pad which means I won't be writing much for the next few days.

Thanks for the ideas, I will try them all...the Netbook is packed, so I'll do them once we arrive.

driver100 · July 2013

My dad and I dropped by a Tesla "store" yesterday to check on the S model.

What a great review and I really learned a lot. It seems that if you want to learn about Teslas you have to do your own research.

It sounds like the Tesla is a computer on wheels in many ways. The one I saw outside in the evening was parked there to get it's monthly updated - it has to be outside for a few hours to do that.

They are beautiful inside and out.

I guess, if 25% of the population goes electric......gas will be more plentiful and cheaper for us fossil fuel oil burners.

driver100 · July 2013

Happy Canada Day, driver!

Thanks and hope you all had a good July 4th.

I was talking to a guy who has a 2003 MB C Class that is in nice shape. He says it has 150K miles on it and he has never had a problem with it.

MBs are well made and if they are cared for they can probably last longer than most cars.

Talking about longevity, there is a Camry ad on TV here and it says 80% of all Camrys bought in Canada over the last 20 years are still on the road.

bwia · July 2013

Oops, I attributed that wonderful contribution to Mike, but it should been to tyguy. Sorry about that and a thousand pardons!

mako1a · July 2013

Tesla "store" yesterday to check on the S model

What a great review, tyguy! Does Car and Driver know of your writing skills?

I read that they may install capacitors (or CAPS) that slowly feed the batteries as the Caps can be charged instantly. If you've ever worked on an old TV it was the capacitor that you had to discharge before touching or risk a shock even if the set was unplugged overnight.

graphicguy · July 2013

tyguy...great write up about the Tesla. Thanks!

I've mentioned I've seen one around my 'burg. I've yet been able to corner the owner to find out where he bought it from (no dealerships within a 3 state area of me) or how he likes it.

But, I've been doing mental calculations about the ROI. Fuel savings alone is around $2,500-$3,000/year. Throw in the maintenance free upkeep of it, and they begin to make some sense. I'm starting to see some charging stations around, too.

In a couple of years, who knows what I may be eyeballing for my next vehicle. Hopefully I can see a Tesla, though.

kyfdx · July 2013

We are off to Chicago just for 2 days...will try to do waterfront boat tour and achitectural tour if at all possible.

The architectural boat tour is the one to take... a lot of nice local history goes along with that... wear plenty of sunscreen..

roadburner · July 2013

Mike Valentine's wife has a Tesla; that's an excellent recommendation in my book.

abacomike · July 2013

was talking to a guy who has a 2003 MB C Class that is in nice shape. He says it has 150K miles on it and he has never had a problem with it...MBs are well made and if they are cared for they can probably last longer than most cars.

It has always been my opinion that if you take care of you automobile or SUV properly, it will last a very long time for you. But MB is a very costly vehicle to maintain and to repair after the warranty is expired. I think I mentioned to you and others in a post that I had leased a 1991 MB 300E Sedan in San Diego. I kept that car for the full 5 year lease (yes, that's right, it was a 5 year, 60 month lease) and put on almost 60,000 miles. I never had that car in for anything other than maintenance - tires, batteries (especially in the desert), oil filter/oil changes, brake pads and rotors. I think I also had to replace belts once or twice due to the extreme heat and wear and tear on the rubber parts - especially wiper blades. But, the car ran as well the day I returned the lease as the first day I go the car.

In about 2 weeks, I'll be taking the new MB E350 up to Orlando with my grandson - it will be its first long road trip (400 miles round trip). I expect/pray it is as uneventful as my previous road trips with a MB.

I did some research a year or two ago on the longevity of the MB V-6 3.5 liter engine and was amazed to find that most MB engines can last over 500,000 miles with proper maintenance. Their diesels last even longer.

The only problem I remember having with a MB was the once I had last year - the white one with the fuel injector problems. Once they replaced the injectors and then had it back to put on new gaskets, it ran fine.

This new MB Sport Sedan is running great. Hasn't been to the dealer for anything except car washes since I got is almost 3 months ago. Great car!

kyfdx · July 2013

Mike Valentine's wife has a Tesla; that's an excellent recommendation in my book.

Mike Valentine has a Carrera GT (which is what I would pick)

mako1a · July 2013

Who is Mike Valentine?

graphicguy · July 2013

Interesting RB. I wi der if that's her I've been seeing tooling around here?

kyfdx · July 2013

One of the inventor/founders of Cincinnati Microwave, which produced the Escort radar detector. Company is now defunct, but the detectors are still produced.

Now, his company produces the Valentine One radar detector.

verdugo · July 2013

Great story. Thanks for sharing.

verdugo · July 2013

I'm hopeful Tesla will help in the societal shift that will be needed to eliminate big oil from our lives.

In addition to what Oldfarmer said, let's remember that electric cars are only as "clear" as where their electricity comes from. If their electricity is generated by coal or oil, electric cars won't save us.

oldfarmer50 · July 2013

"...if their electricity is generated by coal or oil..."

Maybe it will all be power from windmills....ooops.....guess not. :surprise: This from a random article I read:

There are many hidden truths about the world of wind turbines from the pollution and environmental damage caused in China by manufacturing bird choppers, the blight on peoples lives of noise and the flicker factor and the countless numbers of birds that are killed each year by these blots on the landscape.

The symbol of Green renewable energy, our saviour from the non existent problem of Global Warming, abandoned wind farms are starting to litter the planet as globally governments cut the subsidies taxes that consumers pay for the privilege of having a very expensive power source that does not work every day for various reasons like its too cold or the wind speed is too high.

The US experience with wind farms has left over 14,000 wind turbines abandoned and slowly decaying, in most instances the turbines are just left as symbols of a dying Climate Religion, nowhere have the Green Environmentalists appeared to clear up their mess or even complain about the abandoned wind farms.

nyccarguy · July 2013

Fantastic Write Up on the Tesla Model S tyguy! I've been seeing more & more of these lately & they are just gorgeous! Would LOVE to drive a Tesla one day. In fact, if I do win the lottery (I'd have to start playing 1st) my second stop would be a Tesla store.

mako1a · July 2013

One of the inventor/founders of Cincinnati Microwave

Thanks. No wonder I've never heard of him. We don't have radar detectors here in Virginia. Police cars here even have detector detectors and will pull a car using one, take the detector and levy a fine to boot.

And to think we're only 4 hours or so from Cincinnati. A whole different world.

mako1a · July 2013

my second stop would be a Tesla store

What would the first stop be? (This ought to be good)

nyccarguy · July 2013

The Porsche Dealer. I'd custom order a 911 C2 Coupe with very few options.

graphicguy · July 2013

And to think we're only 4 hours or so from Cincinnati. A whole different world.

Mako....you're not the only one who thinks living here is a whole different world. :P

Actually, the two companies' (ESCORT and VALENTINE ONE) HQ aren't even that far from each other...probably less than 10 miles. ESCORT's HQ isn't that far from my home, for that matter.

Escort still makes BELL radar detectors, too. VALENTINE ONE just makes their own brand.

I haven't used a radar detector in quite some time, as these days, I fly more and drive less. But, I used to have one with me at all times in the car.

They're quite sophisticated these days. Some even have "anti-detection" features.

If you read any of the car rags, both companies run monthly ads for their wares.

[Deleted User] · July 2013

Thanks for all the comments. Much appreciated. And I'd love to write for a magazine or website, mako

Mike, my dad is definitely interested in the E Sport, and the CLS caught his attention, too.

I don't think a Tesla-like vehicle makes sense for everyone. Super high mileage commuters like my cousin driving 150 miles each way aren't the right customer. For me, if not for the cost, it represents a great solution. My commute is five miles each way and the only time I drive more than 125 miles is when I'm on a cross country trip. With those short distances a ICE will never warm up, but short distances are not a problem with an electric motor. And for those rare instances we take a longer journey, we could rent a ICE vehicle, or our second car could be a ICE of some variety, or maybe a hydrogen cell at some point.

houdini1 · July 2013

I agree with that article 100%. I just wonder how much all those worthless wind turbines cost each of us...and how much more we will have to pay.

bwia · July 2013

Thought I'd share these funny court exchanges

---------------------------------------
ATTORNEY: What gear were you in at the moment of the impact?
WITNESS: Gucci sweats and Reeboks.

------------------------------------
ATTORNEY: Doctor, before you performed the autopsy, did you check for a pulse?
WITNESS: No.
ATTORNEY: Did you check for blood pressure?
WITNESS: No.
ATTORNEY: Did you check for breathing?
WITNESS: No..
ATTORNEY: So, then it is possible that the patient was alive when you began the autopsy?
WITNESS: No.
ATTORNEY: How can you be so sure, Doctor?
WITNESS: Because his brain was sitting on my desk in a jar.
ATTORNEY: I see, but could the patient have still been alive, nevertheless?
WITNESS: Yes, it is possible that he could have been alive and practicing law.

driver100 · July 2013

The architectural boat tour is the one to take... a lot of nice local history goes along with that

This is one incredible city. We got here at noon and we went on the 90 minute river architectural tour....what a great thing to do in this magnificent city.

Our tour guide is a volunteer and he talked for the full 90 minutes without one note...and it was all so interesting, explaining how the buildings came to be and why they were built or why they were built the way they are.

This makes a great trip. Also, if you are looking for a neat clean hotel in Chicago I highly recommend the Acme Hotel. It is ultra modern, and they include coffee in the morning brought to the door, a gym, parking, wi-fi.
Rooms are small, but clean and efficient, with an element of fun. We chose a street view and the senior rate was $150, my SIL and BIL chose a room without a view at $130 and they have some scantily clad ladies on a trapeze outside their room...just dummies but it is really cute. The staff are young and friendly.

P.S. I think rebooting fixed my mouse - it works again. Stick, I guess the rule, when in doubt reboot still works.

roadburner · July 2013

We don't have radar detectors here in Virginia. Police cars here even have detector detectors and will pull a car using one, take the detector and levy a fine to boot.

I know for a fact that the V1 cannot be detected by the police. Several of my friends in Virginia run the Escort's Passport 9500ci- a hidden unit that includes a radar jammer as well. Very slick.
At present, the "hot" detector is Escort's new Redline ; it has sensitivity as good or better than the V1 and has some significant advantages when paired with the ESCORT Live smartphone app.

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