Stories from the Sales Frontlines

oldfarmer50 · August 2013

Phony reviews? Wow! You mean it was on the Internet and it wasn't true? I'm sure that's the first time it ever happened, right?

Psssssst, I always thought driver100 was a spambot for Audi and BMW. :P

driver100 · August 2013

Psssssst, I always thought driver100 was a spambot for Audi and BMW.

Yeh, but, for the right price I could be persuaded to change. My contract with bmw and Audi is almost up.

imidazol97 · August 2013

> driver100 was a spambot for Audi and BMW.

LOL
And abaco for Mercedes and Rolls royce. :sick:

houdini1 · August 2013

I guess I am confused about where people are posting these fake reviews. Are we talking about the regular forums?

Most of us have been around long enough to be suspicious about someone suddenly showing up and posting a review.

Kirstie_H · August 2013

It's a little bit confusing, because the press articles refer to them as the dealer review forums, but it's actually our rating & reviews section: http://www.edmunds.com/dealer-reviews/

roadburner - wow. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that a site is offering to take money to suppress negative reviews. I think that's a bad idea, personally. A longstanding business with all positive reviews just doesn't look legit. There are always unreasonable customers, or a mistake is made, or a transaction just goes wrong. I'm often more impressed by a business' response to negative reviews than all of the positive reviews. We have several dealerships that get a very high volume of reviews. Most are positive, but stuff happens, and occasionally they get a negative one. Those dealerships usually do a great job of responding to negative content, and it wouldn't dissuade me from doing business with them at all.

isellhondas · August 2013

Well, the store where I worked has five Edmunds reviews and none of them are favorable. If you go to the "other" well known review site, the majority are favorable. I know our store would NEVER EVER have paid to have bad reviews removed so go figure?

An unhappy customer is MUCH more likely to leave a bad review. I think it gives them some kind of satisfaction or something.

graphicguy · August 2013

robr2...I suppose it's unfair of me to dismiss the Equs without driving one (which I haven't). But, fact is, I doubt I'd even visit a Hyundai dealer if I was interested in large lux cars. That's where Hyundai has a problem. If the Equs is indeed as good as a Benz, BMW, Audi, etc, then getting someone to get behind the wheel is the only way to sell one. If they can't do that, the value equation really has no relevance.

Over the years I've often wondered if there were folks I've responded to who are "plants" by a competitive mark of the manufacturer I was reading about.

Kirstie_H · August 2013

Not true - at least not on our site. 85%+ of the reviews published on our site are 4- or 5-star reviews.

robr2 · August 2013

robr2...I suppose it's unfair of me to dismiss the Equs without driving one (which I haven't). But, fact is, I doubt I'd even visit a Hyundai dealer if I was interested in large lux cars. That's where Hyundai has a problem. If the Equs is indeed as good as a Benz, BMW, Audi, etc, then getting someone to get behind the wheel is the only way to sell one. If they can't do that, the value equation really has no relevance.

IIRC, Hyuandai's plan was to create a new sales channel under the Genesis name to bring the Genesis and Equus to market but the financial crisis stopped that as potential dealers weren't willing to build new showrooms.

Getting people in the door is the hard part but they seem to be doing OK. They sold fewer Equus' this year but the refreshed 2014 is coming out soon. Genesis sales are down as well.

If they can get some people in the door looking for value and word gets out that the cars are good, they'll get others. It took 15 years of ever improving Sonatas, Accents and Santa Fes to get to the point they are at now. IMHO, they are patient and the Genesis and Equus will be major players in 5-7 years.

mako1a · August 2013

I sure hope Isell didn't work for Burien as there were some well documented claims of price raising on unwanted accessories and interest fees and a lot of 1 stars.

verdugo · August 2013

But, fact is, I doubt I'd even visit a Hyundai dealer if I was interested in large lux cars

That's exactly the problem VW had with the Phaenton.

isellhondas · August 2013

kirstie, I think you may think I worked for a different store. Maybe I'll go look again.

EDIT...Nope only showing two stars. I did look at some of the older reviews and they are much better including one that mentioned me by name. No, I didn't ask my customer or bribe them to post that one. Only five reviews showing now. Looks like the older ones don't count.

gogiboy · August 2013

"I am sure that happens - false reviews. If I look up a hotel or restaurant on tripadvisor I make sure there are way more excellent reviews than bad ones. I read a few good ones and bad ones to see if there is a pattern."

I just sent a couple of restaurant reviews to Trip Advisor and Yelp. I rarely comment on food or food service because I find that people have such varied expectations, tastes and tolerance that no one would really care about my reviews. I decided to criticize one restaurant for the manager's rudeness. This is a restaurant that my family had eaten at twice before and the food was respectable and atmosphere was pleasant.

In this case I wasn't trying to influence other potential customers as much as to get the attention of the owner/manager. That may be wishful thinking on my part.

I have written numerous reviews on amazon and other sites for products both good and bad. In one case I can remember that I was one of about a dozen reviewers who ripped a really poor product sold through amazon. There wasn't one positive review. Had those reviews been there before I ordered the piece of junk as a Christmas present I would have avoided it like the plague.

My general rule of thumb is that you can usually get some idea of the quality, but that customer reviews should only be one element along with friends, trusted review sites, and "experts" to make a reasonably informed decision. I'd say that using this methodology I have been satisfied about 90% of the time.

Gogiboy

Kirstie_H · August 2013

I meant overall, for all dealerships, 85%+ of the reviews are positive. I didn't go digging for which store you worked for. And yes, star ratings fall off after 2 years.

Sometimes dealerships like to send their customers to one particular review site over another - understandable. It's hard to get consumers to write one review sometimes, much less a review on every site out there. So, it's likely your store concentrated on another, if they asked for reviews.

isellhondas · August 2013

Nope, not Burien. Not even close.

isellhondas · August 2013

I never encouraged a customer to write a review.

I looked at a couple of stores at random including the one where I worked and noticed that there seems to be a dropoff in the ratings over the last couple of years. Fewer stars and more unhappy customers.

May be I just picked the wrong stores to look at or just maybe there is a trend here. Maybe the customers are getting more aggressive and demanding and/or the stores are responding by taking off their gloves.

Maybe I'll look some more when I have time.

nyccarguy · August 2013

Speaking of your old store... Isn't there an actual sales story you want to tell? Did you simply turn in your '11 (?) or did you have some equity in it? What did you replace it with? Buy or lease? What are your likes/dislikes of the new CRV?

isellhondas · August 2013

Sure, I'll tell the story!

The 2011 CRV was an SE. That was basically an EX without a sunroof.

It was leased because of a money factor I couldn't pass up. Lease was up this coming November and our plan was to write a check for the residual and keep it. In May when I turned it in it was in PERFECT shape with 14,000 miles.

One day, I joked with one of the Sales Managers that if he twisted my arm enough I MIGHT flip it for a 2013. No real plan to do this.

Well, they really wanted my 2011 and my arm got twisted.

Upgraded to a 2013 EX. Great money factor, same payment.

Once again, it'll be low mileage and we plan to write a check.

Still have our 2003 EX CRV with 71,000 miles. Like new, always garaged etc.

Paid off many years ago, of course.

The 2013 is as solid as a rock. Quieter and a lot more power it seems.

More options such as Bluetooth that I rarely use and the back up camera that isn't a big deal to either of us.

It's feels much bigger than the 2011 and more substantial. It feels safer, like driving a small tank.

The only complaint from my wife is rear visibility when changing lanes but she's getting used to it.

My wife recently drove the 2003 and she thought the power steering had failed. The electric PS in the 2013 has a great feel to it.

Had it not been for the fantastic resale on CRVS we would have still been driving the 2011. It's a great car too!

houdini1 · August 2013

I don't know if it is still in place, but recently, in my area, Hyundai would bring an Equus to your home and let you test drive it. There could be a couple of reasons for this, depending on how you interpret it.

robr2 · August 2013

I don't know if it is still in place, but recently, in my area, Hyundai would bring an Equus to your home and let you test drive it.

That's still part of the Equus buying process. They also offer valet pickup and drop off of your car and loaner for service visits and complimentary service for 3/36.

Again, it's their way of trying to offer value to a potential customer.

bwia · August 2013

Are auto sales up or down?
Industry wide auto sales increased 13.9% from July 2012 compared with July 2013. However, sales from June to July 2013 fell by -(6.4%) yet the press is jubilant about this outcome. The same relationship was true for the Detroit Big Three. Here are the numbers:

Ford year-over-year.+11.3%
June to July 2013-17.8%

GM year-over-year.+16.3%
June to July 2013-11.6%

Chrysler year-over-year.+11. 1%
June to July 2013....-10.6%

Should the press be so exuberant or do the sales figures merely reflect market dynamics? I believe the decrease from June to July can be explained by customers waiting for the new 2014 models rather than a major reversing trend. Anyone care to weigh in?

graphicguy · August 2013

Craig...neighbor of mine has a CRV. It's her 3rd one (I think it's a '12). She leases for either 24 or 36 months. Once the lease is completed, she turns it in for a new one. Not sure about payments, but I vaguely recall her saying that her payments are the same as when she leased her first one over a dozen years ago.

She swears by her CRVs.

Regarding the Equus, pulling the trigger on one, especially one that costs $60K+ would be a hard pill for me to swallow. It might drive quite well. But, given the same price, if I could put my derriere in an E350 or an A6 for the same money, that's what I'd buy.

True....Toyota, Honda and Nissan started the same way as Hyundai is right now. But, those brands had a sterling reputation to begin with for quality, reliability, and longevity when they launched their premium brands. Hyundai, although worlds better than they used to be, are still viewed negatively in those categories.

If Hyundai is patient, they might pull it off. But, they definitely need to upgrade their dealerships, and their personnel in order to get people to stop by their stores to even look at a Hyundai.

While, I did buy my son an Elantra several years ago, the dealership I bought it from was in sore need of a remodel. It wasn't dirty, per se. Just needed a serious re-fresh. Plus, the sales tactics they employed at the time (nearly 10 years ago) were akin to the same ones you get from a guy selling knock off "Bolex" watches from the trunk of his car.

ohenryx · August 2013

msg 93066 by Kirstie
I meant overall, for all dealerships, 85%+ of the reviews are positive.

I will admit to being a little surprised by that number. When I hear people (friends, co-workers, relatives) disucssing their new car shopping experience, it certainly doesn't sound 85% positive.

ohenryx · August 2013

msg 93070 Isellhondas
Had it not been for the fantastic resale on CRVS we would have still been driving the 2011. It's a great car too!

I had a very similar experience a couple of months ago. Cost me very, very little to trade in a 2011 Silverado for a 2013 Silverado. ($2,300 plus TT&L).

Personally, i think late model used cars are insanely expensive compared to new cars, and I can't understand why anyone would buy one.

nyccarguy · August 2013

Mazel-Tov & congrats on your 2013 CRV. Since you do so little driving, I assume you took out a 10K per year lease. I'm sure it must be a nice money factor, because I recall you saying in the past that you weren't such a fan of leasing.

So you got an EX, right? Not an EXL. You got FWD or AWD? Just curious also as to what your lease residual is on the 2013 and if you remember what it was on the 2011.

robr2 · August 2013

Regarding the Equus, pulling the trigger on one, especially one that costs $60K+ would be a hard pill for me to swallow. It might drive quite well. But, given the same price, if I could put my derriere in an E350 or an A6 for the same money, that's what I'd buy.

But again, they are targeting S or A8 aspirations at the price of an E or A6. Compare the Genesis for features and pricing and you'll be surprised how much of a value they are. Of course, you don't get the badge smugness.

robr2 · August 2013

My parents are on their 3rd CRV. My Dad goes in every 5 years and picks out an EX, haggles a little and leaves happy.

I try to tell him that cars don't have to be traded at 60K any more but hey - it's his money.

isellhondas · August 2013

Oh, I agree. The Korean Stigma remains although a lot of people have forgiven this or have short memories.

An E350 or an A6 vs. a Korean car for the same money? A TOTAL no brainer at least for me.

They blew it (for me anyway) with their junky first offerings that they came to our market with. Then Daewoo..Oh, they were going to be so much better and different as they opened dealerships and tried to elbow themselves into an already overcrowded marketplace.

Their cars weren't anything special and some were troublesome.

They quietly left the US, tails jammed up between their legs.

But...so did Fiat a few years earlier and look at them now!

isellhondas · August 2013

This is our 4th CRV and not one of them ever needed any kind of warranty work. Just great cars that do everything well!

jayrider · August 2013

You can buy a new 2013 Equus for 46-47k. I don't know how that compares with BMW or Audi but there are deals to be had. Don't be left in the lurch -- get down to the Hyundai shop and get dealing.

isellhondas · August 2013

It's an EX. Not a huge fan of leather and 4WD. Without looking it up I don't remember what the residuals are on them.

graphicguy · August 2013

jay...robr...maybe I am indeed playing the "smug" card. But, even at $47K-$48K the Equus doesn't interest me.

You can target any group of cars you want. That doesn't mean you actually compete with them. If I'm not willing to look at an Equus and cross shop it against an E350, A6 or 535, why on earth would I look at one if I'm cross shopping S Class, A8s or 6-7 series?

As Craig mentioned, it's a no brainer for me which brand I'd choose over the Hyundai. Matter of fact, for that mid-high $40s out the door price for an Equus, I'd buy a loaded up 328i, or a loaded Acura TL, even an Inifinit M37 (although I'm not really an Infiniti fan). With any of those cars, I'd know what I was getting and what to expect.

The Hyundai? Hearing jmonroe's stories about his Hyundais, all the handwringing over the Genesis about poor suspension (which tells me where the cost cutting took place), and my personal experiences in the Hyundai dealerships, I'd have to take a pass.

Again, when Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti hit the streets, we were all curious about how they would add their sterling quality, design, performance, longevity to the luxury class. We got our answer. They created a whole new market for the Japanese brands.

Hyundai is better off sticking to their bread and butter verticals, at least for the time being. My son's former Elantra, was reliable because of its simplicity. Up until the very end (nearing 150K miles on the odo) it needed a lot of work. But, some of the maintenance and repairs he could do himself. It was relatively simple. Not to say anyone's positive opinion of the Equus is off. They just won't get my money to buy one.

They're riding a bit of a wave with some of their bold designs. I still think it will be a decade or more, in addition to some investment by Hyundai marketers and dealers for much better infrastructure before they will make even a slight dent into the lux arena.

houdini1 · August 2013

I still think it will be a decade or more, in addition to some investment by Hyundai marketers and dealers for much better infrastructure before they will make even a slight dent into the lux arena.

I agree with the above. I also remember how doggedly Hyundai stuck to their guns and finally cracked the small car market market with many fine small cars and SUV'S.

Eventually I think that Hyundai will shake up the luxury car market just as Lexus did some 20 years ago...and that will be a good thing for luxury car buyers. The Equus is certainly not a bad first effort.

gogiboy · August 2013

"When I submit a review to tripadvisor I always have to check that I am not an employee or have an interest and my review is truthful."

driver--

I mentioned that I left a critical review on Trip Advisor for a restaurant that my family had tried to eat at again for the third year in a row. At that time I mentioned that my real purpose was to let the management know of our displeasure and not to try to necessarily influence others. I have to admit I was surprised when I got a response from the manager on the website. Although her response didn't really address two of my complaints it was proof that at least some of the establishments monitor what is being said about their food and service. I would expect that owners and managers at non-franchise restaurants would be much more sensitive and likely to respond than the corporate drones at franchises like the one where Mike recently ate with his grandson.

Gogiboy

gogiboy · August 2013

Isell--

I really like the CRV and I thought my wife was going to get one of the previous generation, but she thought it too big. That was coming out of the 02 Rav4 that I totaled. She felt the same way about the next generation Rav4.

My big complaint about the small SUV (or more properly CUV, now) category is the lack of a full-size spare. I really liked that feature on the previous Gens of Honda and Toyota. Am I the only person who has ever changed a tire or not wanted to have to find a service station within 50 miles on a road trip? Those donuts are absurd. I'm also waiting for the CRV to get a blind spot warning like the Mazda CX5. I think they all offer backup cameras now in at least some trim lines. I know a lot of people scoff at the desire to have this technology, but all of the small SUVs as well as my wife's Scion xB have sizable rear pillar blind spots and the sloping roofs on the CRV and Rav4 don't help either.

Incidentally, I compared a CRV Ex-L with a comparably equipped Ford Escape and the Escape was more than $5K more! I was stunned. How does Ford justify that?

Gogiboy

isellhondas · August 2013

I'm not sure if you are aware of this but the technology has improved markedly with compact spares. They are no longer the "donuts" od yesterday.

It is pretty unusual to get a flat anymore. I can count the times on two fingers that I have had a flat in the past 30 years and I used to drive a LOT.

One of those "flats" was a slow leak that was easy to deal with. The other flat was found in the morning in our garage. I pumped it up with a portable compressor and drove to Firestone and had it fixed.

The modern compact spares can he driven at freeway speeds for over 100 miles. Given space constraints it is doubtful that you'll be able to find a full sized spare on any car. You may even find no spare at all and a can of fix a flat. I keep my AAA membership up to date just in case.

A backup camera won't help you with your blind spots but I do agree on the lane change warning.

I will admit, my backup camera helped me today. I went to a local car show and I parked the 2013 CRV in a spot where I though nobody would be able to park in front of me. Well, I was wrong and not only that, someone else pulled right up within six inches of my rear bumper. Grrrrr! I have to say, the rear camera helped a bit although it wasn't necessary.

And, yeah, that same Escape that is 5000.00 more than the CRV will probably be worth 5000.00 LESS ten years from now!

PS - The full sized spare on our 2003 has never been on the ground after ten years and 71,000 miles. Maybe I ought to check the air pressure on it in case the AAA ever needs to install it!

explorerx4 · August 2013

I don't know what criteria you used, but I came up with about $1000 difference, excluding any incentives. EX-L and 2014 Titanium.
Escapes are very good vehicles, although not what I prefer to drive. My wife in on her 3rd one and the kids drive the older 2.

isellhondas · August 2013

Last summer, against my advice, our son was DETERMINED to buy a Jeep Wrangler and, he did!

We did stop by the local Ford store and I was SHOCKED at the price of Explorers and Escapes! CRV's and Pilots were a bargain compared to the prices I saw.

The Wrangler is currently on a Jeep Club off road adventure and I'm glad I'm not along this time!

isellhondas · August 2013

My post was confusing. Our 2013 CRV has 4WD.

Honda used to call it 4WD but now, it's AWD.

Deceiving to say " ALL wheel drive when the spare does nothing to propel the car. The spare is a WHEEL, right?

I know they changed the way it works. No longer "Real Time 4WD"

robr2 · August 2013

Incidentally, I compared a CRV Ex-L with a comparably equipped Ford Escape and the Escape was more than $5K more! I was stunned. How does Ford justify that?

Looks....The CR-V is pretty homely IMHO.

:P

explorerx4 · August 2013

High level Fords CUV's really compare to Acura. A mid level Escape/Explorer to a better comparison to a high end CR-V/Pilot.

houdini1 · August 2013

Apparently so...at least in price !!

explorerx4 · August 2013

There are lots of Escape features not available on the CR-V.
The CR-V finally got rid of that stupid wrong way side opening rear hatch.
The Escape has had a more practical top opening rear hatch since it was introduced, almost a decade and a half ago.

isellhondas · August 2013

Looks are subjective and one of the last things I care about.

isellhondas · August 2013

Actually, they FINALLY got rid of that "stupid wrong way opening rear hatch" when the 2007's were introduced.

Funny, I can't remember even ONE customer complaining about that during those "stupid" years.

And, the one on our 2003 works just fine. Never a bother in any way.

nyccarguy · August 2013

Still LOVE the Wrangler & think it is one of the coolest vehicles on the planet every time I see someone cruise by with the top down;)

nyccarguy · August 2013

My Father In Law has a ruby red Escape SEL 4WD & it is very sharp. The interior materials rival those in my BMW. Seats are comfortable. I think Ford gets away with the higher price point on some of the more expensive Escapes because you do get a choice of 2 more powerful engines (1.6 Turbo & 2.0 Turbo) plus the superbly finished interior.

Those CRVs hold their value insanely well. Looking through the paper this AM, I saw some '07s with asking prices in the high $19K range.

nyccarguy · August 2013

In fact, CRVs hold their value so well that I wonder if I could take a 36 month/10K per year lease & drive my usual 60K in that 3 year time period & trade the car in instead of turning it in as it still might be worth the stated residual value even with double the miles :shades:

isellhondas · August 2013

Yeah, I suppose the Wranglers are cool. Maybe it's my advancing years but I find them nasty to get in and out of, bouncy, uncomfortable and crude.

Wrangler owners wave at each other as they pass.

isellhondas · August 2013

Um...no guarantees on that from me!

Ours is a 12K lease. 10K wouldn't have made much difference.

The main gripe I had was that with the seat back as I like it, reaching the steering wheel was an uncomfortable stretch.

Then I looked....DUH, it has a telescoping steering wheel that the older models didn't have!

I know, my salesperson should have shown me that. I never went to school on these.

Stories from the Sales Frontlines

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles