Stories from the Sales Frontlines

snakeweasel · September 2013

Tell me what is your impression of the CLA.

abacomike · September 2013

Tell me what is your impression of the CLA.

From the outside, it looks like a mini-CLS550. On the inside, it was not up to snuff for a Mercedes. I personally don't like FWD vehicles, so I would not consider buying a CLA. I'm a big guy, and felt very confined in the front seat, but I felt the same way in the CLS.

Very low stance and I hit my head on the headliner. However, for those who would like to own/lease/drive a Mercedes Benz, it's a very inexpensive way to enter the Mercedes Family of cars. It's no E Class, but it is a nice departure from the C Class. Great looks on the exterior but the interior is quite mundane. The car I sat in had an MSRP of $35,000. The base car is $29,990 + $910 for transportation. Add a premium package and a little of this and that, it tends to get a little more pricy. I believe the C Class is more comfortable for 6'2" guys. My right leg hits the console in the CLA.

I did not drive the car, but from what I have been told by sales staff, it is perky for a 4 cylinder engine. Materials and workmanship used in the body and the interior seem similar to the C Class.

I would have more to say if I had driven the vehicle - but I doubt I would be comfortable driving one if I was so uncomfortable just sitting in one.

Remember, there is more interior space and comfort in the E Class than in the seemingly larger CLS. I also found the C class more comfortable than the CLA.

I would urge you to stop by a dealership and check it out for yourself. It looks like a Benz, but I don't know if it handles like one .

snakeweasel · September 2013

A few years ago we almost pulled the trigger on a C class as one of our cars but we decided against it. Currently I have something like 3 payments left on my car and about 2.5 years on the wifes. Plans are when my car is free and clear to take the payments and double up on the wifes car and get that paid off in early 2015. So the plans are that come the spring of 2015 we might start looking for a luxury car that we would use for "date" nights. Like when we go out for dinner or to a show or anything like that. We would use our current cars for daily drivers.

So MB is in the running for that along with a few other makes.

On a related note almost had to buy a new car today. Went to the bank and 40 minutes later give or take this happened.

charles_guy · September 2013

"...has rebuilt title but no NYS inspection sticker... Am I missing something? The ad says the car is in New Britain CT. Why would it have a NY inspection sticker?"

the SALVAGEad is CT. ebay auction Woodside NY http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/290978788173

new one is http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/290983252946 Woodside NY

isellhondas is indepted for writing the following:

"Make sure your insurance company will insure it and just know that it wil be near impossible to resell down the road.

Me? I wouldn't even think about it! "

we checked the vin n saw the pics and this one is no-go http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/290983252946 and we found salvaged here http://www.salvage-cars-for-sale.info/salvage/for-sale-subaru-forester-2008-Mjc4- OTI1NzI

thanks

karhill1 · September 2013

Mooch here! As a Mooch, my wallet is most pleased dealers now reduce the price while attempting to enhance profit via those somewhat deceptive fees. A simple no is a wonderfully effective counter to such dealer gambits.

dino001 · September 2013

It is not "mooches" who ruined this market, it is those store owners and operators who discovered thay could SAY (in print, on the radio, TV, in person) their price is less, but in fact they charge you more overall by splitting the price into a "price" and a "fee", then advertise the former.

What is a mooch, anyway? Somebody, who just dares to say "I think I should pay less than the your are offering"? Or perhaps not buy that great paint sealant and seat protection package for $599, put on every car on the lot? If so, I'm the first mooch and so is everybody here on this forum who is a car buyer.

The salespeople here always tell us "all you need to do is say no". I could say the same thing about store owners and sales staff - all they had to do is say "no" to what they considered unacceptable offers, draw the line and stick to the real price. But no, they rather chose to pretend their price is whatever the "mooch" customer asks, but magically they recover the profit by adding fees for non-existent services.

With that we're all up to the races. Florida dealers are now in sub $1000 territory in terms of fees (I've seen already $799+$99+some other small amount, all called "fee for this and that"). Japanese brands are absolute worst, leaders in inventing phoney charges, but domestics and others promptly follow suit. All that lets them falsely advertise lower price. At least they have to put the fee in the fine print, as mandated by law and same on their cars. I'm waiting for a day of $1 price commercial (plus $19999 fee, of course). With ads advertising prices without those big fee and having additional $3000 deducted for a trade value (as that is paid by Santa Clause or dwarves, not the customer) and another thousand deducted for some hard to qualify discount, it doesn't seem so far away.

graphicguy · September 2013

Snake...what happened there? Did the SUV spontaneously combust?

Going off the reservation here for a moment because I'm more than a little miffed.

A couple of years ago, I decided to go bigger with my TV. I moved my Pioneer plasma into my den from the home theater room. Since Pioneer got out of the plasma business (bummer as they made the best TVs), I keyed in on a Panasonic.

I had bought quite a few things at HHGregg. So, off to their store I went. I wouldn't call them high pressure, but you definitely know they're on commission when you walk in.

Anyway, I spied a Panasonic TV, 65" Plasma. I was waffling whether I wanted to spend that much money (it was actually about 1/2 what I had paid for my Pioneer 3 years earlier). Salesperson went to his computer and came back with a price about $600 less than the price on the TV's store tag. Done deal.

Here's where it gets tricky. I'm not an "extended warranty" person. But, figuring the sales person gave me a good deal, and given that he also discounted the extended warranty (going from 1 year manufacturer's warranty to 4 years of extended with a company called Warrantech), I popped for it.

Fast forward to 3 months ago. The Panasonic TV starts to flash unevenly across different parts of the screen. Remembering my extended warranty, I dig out the paperwork and call the 800 # for Warrantech.

They send out one guy who fiddles with the TV, takes the back off, checks connections of some sort and decides he really doesn't know what's wrong. But he decides to order a circuit board, anyway. A month later, the part comes in. He comes out to put it in, still no luck, part of the panel is flashing.

He says it must be an issue with my power (nope...have my home theater running through a power conditioner connected through on a seperate circuit).

Warrantech says technician says it's a power problem. I disagree. We go back and forth for another month, fighting, letter writing, dealing with inept technicians and even more inept Warrentech employees. They decide to send another technician out.

He calls first and assures me he knows exactly what the problem is. He orders another circuit board and goes through the whole routine. Again, no fix. I suggest that it's probably the plasma panel itself (which is super expensive). He says it's a power problem.

To put an end to that, I actually put another tube TV (which uses a whole lot more power than a plasma) and show him that it's not a power problem as the tube TV works fine.

More letter writing, more phone calls, try to reach Warrantech's exec staff...funny, they must always be out of the office as I could only leave them voice mail once I got through the secretary. They, in turn, keep pushing me back to the inept peons who are worthless to me.

Frustrated, I file in small claims court to get a refund of my purchase price, per their wording in the extended warranty.

All of a sudden, they're seeing things differently. They magically decided to replace my TV because of a panel issue. But, I have to ship the old TV back to them. That's not going to fit in my trunk. And, I wouldn't even know how to pack it, or who to use to send it back. I suggest having HHGregg picking the old TV up when they deliver the new one, putting the broken TV in the new TV's box and sending it to Warrantech the next time they make a delivery to them. OF course, that takes another 2 weeks to get them to agree to do that.

New TV is delivered...everything is fine, finally.

The downside, they no longer made the TV I used to have. So, I had to get the newer version (which costs $200 more, but does have a better picture).

HHGregg suggested I buy another extended warranty on the new TV.

No way, no how, under any circumstance would I ever do that. Anyone cosidering an extended warranty from Warrantech should be extremely cautious. They're bordering on being fraudulent.

Thanks for letting me vent.....!

imidazol97 · September 2013

>They're bordering on being fraudulent.

Thanks for posting that. Good information.

snakeweasel · September 2013

A small plane crashed there trying to land at a nearby airport. I was there at maybe 4:30 or so the plane crashed at about 5:15.

dino001 · September 2013

A few years ago I simply stopped buing extended warranties, period. Doesn't matter if the company is a scam, or legit. I'm simply no longer interested.

I used to buy those, I bought one for new appliances when I moved to my house, car (twice), TV set (once), tires (road hazard), each time I let myself be talked into them. After a review of 10+ year activity warranty purchases and claims, I concluded it didn't even come close. The ratio was something like 4 to 1 for the insurance companies. So a few years ago I decided no more, even if the price looks good. I basically say, I'd buy one, but at the price they would not sell it to me.

Moreover, as my career progressed and asset base increased, I also realized I have enough cash or highly liquid assets to buy most of my stuff twice over, except the car and the house of course. I can afford to shell out several thousands on a very unlikely engine job, if I had to. I wouldn't like it and it would sting no doubt, but I can do it.

Insurance should be for catastrofic stuff, not for little or even midsize losses. I define catastrofic loss as something that would force you to sell more than 30% of the held assets, or go into big debt. However, it seems that both banks and insurance companies let us believe that we shouldn't be saving any money and because we aren't saving, we should be buying their protection against even fairly small losses, just to save ourselves some pain. What's worse, when it comes to call for that protection, it looks like it's often not even there. Seems to me like road straight to serfdom.

nyccarguy · September 2013

You guys down in FLA & GA have it the worst. The doc fees are regulated in NY to $75. In neighboring states (NJ & CT) doc fees are unregulated and range anywhere from $179 to $499. Even in NY, some dealers on Long Island try and charge a separate "delivery fee" or "destination fee." It is just another way of deceiving the customer into "thinking" they got a great deal.

When I helped my friend lease her 2013 VW Tiguan, the salesman (honest, seasoned, knowledgeable, professional, car guy) told me that the "doc fees" in NJ "get em all the time." They get the quotes online & then confirm over the phone. The drive 1 1/2 - 2 hours from Long Island (horrible traffic getting from LI to NJ), pay tolls, use gas, & they are at the dealership already so they just pay it and move on.

I'll admit (and Craig has attested to this) that there are grinders who just "grind for the sake of grinding" every last penny out of a deal. There are ALWAYS going to be people like that. Even if you give them the car for free, it still isn't cheap enough.

These car dealers have A LOT of competition. There is a lot of pressure on them to "move metal" by the manufacturers. The manufacturers want to be able to advertise that they have "the best selling car in this segment." The monthly, quarterly, & yearly bonuses are "big money" for these dealerships. So the dealers sell cars either at or below invoice to make these sales numbers. It's the same thing in the plumbing supply industry. The manufacturers want to sell, sell, sell. So they give rebates to wholesalers & retailers who sell a certain dollar amount. There are guys out there who literally give stuff away & make their money off their 2% cash discount (by paying invoices in 10 days) and their end of the year rebates.

Dealers are also making lots of money on used cars. They give the customer less than the car is worth to make up for the "under invoice deal" on the new car.

They make tons of money in the F & I office selling extended warranties, tire & wheel insurance, maintenance contracts, & higher interest rates. When my parents bought their Cayenne, the salesman told us he drove an Acura. He'd love a Porsche, but cannot afford one. The F&I guy gets a $150,000 911 Turbo as a demo. It is very easy to connect the dots.

There are fewer & fewer "family owned & operated" car dealerships. These mega dealer groups are so big that some are listed on the New York Stock Exchange. To them the sale price of the new car means nothing. It is how much the dozen or so dealerships profit as a whole.

The car itself is almost something shiny to just get the customer in the door.

It is a crazy business for sure.

mako1a · September 2013

It is not "mooches" who ruined this market

That word was first used on here in 2005. It was used along with trolls. Both words had me amused and frustrated. It was like little kids throwing out the most harsh words they could use when they couldn't get enough "profit".

Once the shock value wears off you'll get back to dollars and SENSE.

Pay what you're comfortable with and don't fall for "everyone else is paying it".

bwia · September 2013

No way, no how, under any circumstance would I ever do that. Anyone cosidering an extended warranty from Warrantech should be extremely cautious.

Happy ending to your story, that's what counts. Two weeks ago I bought a 60-inch Seiki from Sears. I did not buy the extended warranty but I charged it to my American Express. You get an extra year's warranty for free. Don't know how the Seiki will perform but so far so good.

oldfarmer50 · September 2013

"...regulated in NY to $75..."

It's up to $75 now? When I bought in 2009 it was capped at $45.

I wonder if all those ads I see for little mom & pop dealers in Florida on Craigslist are posting prices minus big dealer fees? Misleading if they do particularly on a $2,000 car. A $600 fee is a 30% bump.

dino001 · September 2013

You get it right, misleading is a charitable word. I think the state law is now they need to put the fee in their print or TV/radio ads (in supersmall print or fast talking individual nobody can understand), but I don't know if same thing applies to internet posts.

There are some dealers (small minority) not charging those fees, or charging much less, but then they usually will advertise no fees.

isellhondas · September 2013

No, the term "mooch" was used in these forums way before 2005.

It is a term that go's way back in the car business and is used to describe the cheapest of cheap customers and not a customer simply looking to get the most for their money.

I never minded tough negotiators as I was one myself and still am.

Some people, however, crossed the line. Not many but there were some that just went too far to the point I felt almost embarrassed for them.

The term "mooch" was seldom heard where I worked.

" Pay what you're comfortable with". Good advice!

abacomike · September 2013

The term "mooch" was seldom heard where I worked.

In the 3 dealerships I worked, I did not hear the word "mooch" used very often. That word usually described an individual who, once a deal was consummated, would persist on trying to get things included on the deal without paying any more than the agreed price.

As an example, I remember a customer of mine who negotiated with me for over 3 hours to arrive at a price that was $50.00 over dead invoice. The car was an LS430 Ultra that MSRP'd at $62,500 back in 2003. So this individual was not in any financial distress, if you know what I mean. As I was getting ready to take his new car to "detail" to have it washed, waxed and made ready for delivery, he said he wanted door-edge guards added. I talked to management and they agreed. Then, he wanted the tires changed from Bridgedtones to Michelins. Management agreed to do that for him. Then, he wanted an extra set of carpeted floor mats put in his trunk so he would have a spare set. Management hemmed and hawed, but agreed. Then he wanted the Lexus Gold Package added at no charge ($350 labor and parts). That is when the sales manager came out of his office and threw the MOOCH out of the showroom and refused to sell him the car.

The manager said to me that he could tolerate just about anyone, but moochers were intolerable.

So, the manager's description of the customer, calling him a mooch was dead on!!!

snakeweasel · September 2013

This is my take on extended warranties. The vast majority of products fail for one of two reasons. First is by defective parts or manufacturing., the second it by getting worn out. If it's because of the former then the manufactures warranty would cover it and if it's the later then an extended warranty would have lapsed by then.

In short extended warranties covers a product for what is likely its most reliable portion of the products life.

Another thing to think about is what you pay for that extended warranty. That has to pay for any commission to the sales person, part of the pay for the companies employees and other expenses before they pay out what they expect the average costs of warranty work on each car.

In short if the warranty company correctly guesses then the average car would require far less in warranty work than what is charged for the extended warranty. So the vast majority of extended warranty buyers will lose out on the deal.

verdugo · September 2013

" I did not buy the extended warranty but I charged it to my American Express. You get an extra year's warranty for free."

I thought they doubled the manufacturer's warranty.

verdugo · September 2013

"Some people, however, crossed the line. Not many but there were some that just went too far to the point I felt almost embarrassed for them. "

Tell us some of those stories please. I bet they're very entertaining.

dino001 · September 2013

No, usually it is one year on top of one year. In other words, if you already get two or three years from mfr, credit cards don't add third of fourth year. At least this was my understanding, when I read the terms on the Mastercard.

ohenryx · September 2013

Stolen shamelessly from the American Express web site:

1. How does Extended Warranty work?

When you charge the cost of an eligible product to your eligible Card, Extended Warranty can extend the terms of the original manufacturer's warranty for a period of time equal to the duration of the original manufacturer's warranty, up to one additional year on manufacturer warranties of five years or less that are eligible in the U.S.

Centurion Card members can extend the original manufacturer's warranty of eligible items by up to 3 years

verdugo · September 2013

Thanks for posting that.

I seem to remember some fine print saying that it excluded cars.

driver100 · September 2013

When you charge the cost of an eligible product to your eligible Card,

I just wonder how easy it is to collect on an Amex credit card...you probably have to jump through so many hoops it won't be worthwhile.

I have a VISA card that covers me on rental cars. I got a rental car, parked it, and 2 minutes later, while I was still in it, a guy in an old pickup truck runs into the back light. I called the rental company and they said you are on your own since you didn't use our insurance. VISA would have paid but I had lots of calling and paperwork to fill out.

These days my insurance company covers me on any rental car I use in the US or Canada...same limits as on my insurance policy. I feel a little better about them covering me.

robr2 · September 2013

I just wonder how easy it is to collect on an Amex credit card...you probably have to jump through so many hoops it won't be worthwhile.

I was rear ended in a rental car. When I advised the rental agency, they immediately billed my AMEX for $500. One call to AMEX and it was credited within 72 hours.

graphicguy · September 2013

There's the other side of that equation, too. No disrespect meant for Craig or Mike, as I have the highest regards for both of them.

However (you knew this was coming), dealers play their game, too. They have been known to grind a buyer to the very last dollar, too. They like to sit there and go back and forth trying to extract as much as they can from a prospective buyer...particularly one who has a lot of "desk time" invested in buying their car.

I told this story a long time ago. But, my late Father was a grinder in the first degree.

We were both looking at trucks several years ago. I suggested I could buy the same truck as he could in under 2 hours, paying the same, or less than he would pay spending an entire afternoon grinding. Won't bore with the details but I did exactly that (actually a little under what he paid) by throwing out my "all-in number", telling the dealer it's a one time offer. They gave me a little pushback. But, once they tried to bump me, and I got up to leave, they agreed to my offer quickly.

That's how I buy my new cars now. I figure the number (including doc fees, taxes, etc). Present it with a here's what I'm prepared to do....all in. No counter offers, either accept or reject it.

I can see where the "mooches" (as Mike described) would be customers the dealership wouldn't want.

Speaking of mooches, when my new TV arrived earlier this week, the delivery guys asked me what happened to the old TV (as it looked relatively new). According to them, they can score a good deal on TVs once the TV is returned for service and it's fixed. I turned it on for them. They quickly dismissed that idea as it flashed like a strobe.

I explained to them that it was under extended warranty that Warrantech finally agreed to replace it, but only after I threatened to sue them.

They weren't surprised...heard those tales about Warrantech all the time.

I understand that the extended warranty companies are in business to MAKE MONEY. I don't have issues with that. The way I look at it, they made a 10-1 bet. I put up approx $200 at 13-1 odds that something would happen to my TV after the maanufaturer's warranty expired. I also bet they couldn't fix it. They gave me 13-1 odds. Sounds like a good bet on their part....except, they lost. Don't fudge the bet. Pay up.

When something does go wrong, and they have to live up to their contract, do what's right and replace the electronics. Don't make the customer go through a 3 month ordeal.

No more extended warranties from Warrantech for me. Not now, not ever again. Save your money.

imidazol97 · September 2013

>No more extended warranties from Warrantech for me.

The only extended warranty I like are the ones from the auto company itself, such as GMPP that I did buy for the Cobalt.

However, I did bite on an extension of the 1 year warranty from Whirlpool on the Cabrio washer and dryer several years back. It went to 5 years and paid for service or replacement if needed. I think it was $150 for the (5) 4 year warranty. It was the electronics I worried about. The counter guy at the appliance repair parts store commented about how lucky I was that my older models were electronic based when I went in to buy replacement parts for the washer/dryer I had.

28firefighter · September 2013

I used your method for the lease on my CC that I'm picking up on Sunday. One offer, known skinny deal, and they took it to move the unit. Helps that it's the end of the model year and end of the month.

fezo · September 2013

I had an interesting warranty experience some time ago. I had a 50" Toshiba TV that I bought at Costco. They double the manufacturer's warranty. Good thing. That made a 4 year warranty.

At three years lots of the connectors for devices ceased working. Couldn't even run a DVD. Called Costco and within days they sent to guys who made it look like Giuseppe and Luigi try to fix a television set but it worked fine after that.

A few weeks ago the motherboard fried so that was the end of that. Replaced with a Samsung LED (The Toshiba was plasma). Couldn't be happier. That one I let Amazon deliver.

imidazol97 · September 2013

>A few weeks ago the motherboard fried so that was the end of that.

Would the Costco warranty have replaced the TV or the mainboard?

mako1a · September 2013

Fezo, we must travel in the same circles. Solara, Toshiba, etc.

I bought a 50 in Toshiba Plasma about 6 years ago and it's still working fine, but then we don't have kids with their games (it was bought for football). The Solara I still miss. I was happy as could be then traded for a 4 door Avalon then the runaway news (my wife took it seriously) made me get rid of it. When are you getting a pick up truck? They're very handy.

fezo · September 2013

I have a deal that isn't going to happen but I'd love it to. My daughter's fiance is an electrician's apprentice. Unfortunately at the moment they don't have him on a job which means little money coming in and keeps him five years away from Master Electrician.

But I digress. A friend of mine has an 87 GMC Caballero that looks mostly like it just left the showroom the he'd let go for Josh what he has in it, which is $6,300. Josh lusts after it but doesn't have the cash and I'm not in a position to make it happen. Too bad. I'd love that.

Wonder what he could get for his old Acura CL?

He can't park in the union lot in any car that's not certified American (ironically my Mazda qualifies). And so we wait.

jayrider · September 2013

Why not pay him to run a 220 line into your garage ? You don't need the charging station until you actually buy but you'll be ready for an all electric car in the future and it would be a nice perk if/when you sell your house. In a few years there will be many choices with much longer ranges. I could do 90% of my driving with an electric car but haven't seen one I'd really like yet.

dino001 · September 2013

Yes, the damage billing on the card is NOT acceptable and the rental people know that. It needs to go through proper channels, just like any other insurance claim.

nyccarguy · September 2013

I plan on using your patented "one price negotiation method" when I buy whatever it is I am going to buy next year when the lease is up on my BMW. I know you have had much success with this, but the trade is the variable. Your cars are literally "perfect." Low mileage, glow in the dark, showroom condition... I am at the opposite end of the spectrum. I put a lot of miles on my cars, so no matter what their condition, even if it is a 10/10, I'm not going to get close to what I want for my trade. I've also learned countless times on this board (in the earlier years when we actually told sales stories) that you car is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it, no matter what edmunds or kbb says its market value is.

When I traded in my 2010 Acura TSX last March, it was technically 2 MY old. Actually it was 2 years and 7 months old with 49,000 miles. The car was spotless. There was a scrape on the bumper, but it had fresh rubber and glowed in the dark. The car was black with absolutely ZERO swirl marks. Qbrozen told me I should get $21 - $22K on the trade as that's about what they go across the block for. 1 BMW dealer offered me $16K and told me "I'm lucky he's giving me that much and not deducting for the scrape on the rear bumper." The dealer where I ended up leasing my car from originally offered me $18,000 and came up to $19,000.

I agree with you that the dealers do "play games." Specifically (BMW) marking up the lease initiation fee and then money factors. And NO matter what they tell you, "they are NOT loosing money selling you the car at $X."

roadburner · September 2013

I always make an OTD offer- whether I have a trade or not. That saves me from any surprise fees.

nyccarguy · September 2013

In NY where I am from and tend to buy my cars, the doc fee is limited to $75, so no surprises there. If I do end up buying in CT, I find out what the dealers doc fees are before I make my offer. I'm going to try the "one offer deal" when I go to buy next year. Zero trade, should be straight forward.

abacomike · September 2013

There's the other side of that equation, too. No disrespect meant for Craig or Mike, as I have the highest regards for both of them.

There is no question that dealerships do the same thing - drain the buyer of all they can - but a moocher does even more! A moocher wants everything for nothing. Thank goodness I did not come across very many of them in my experiences. And, yes, in my car buying experiences prior to going into the car business, I often felt like I was being nickeled and dimed to death.

isellhondas · September 2013

OK, a story! One I've told before in these forums but every time I get reminded of that glorious day I smile and feel all warm and happy inside!

It was a very busy Saturday and we were swamped with customers. That day we had red tagged a lot of our new cars at prices that were meant to blow them out. Our lot and our offsite storage lots were full and we had several hundred more cars in transit.

So, this family was working with a rookie salesperson for hours. They drove several cars and generally weren't pleasant (understatement) to deal with.

Finally, they landed on a new Odyssey. As it turns out, the Lot Attendant had made a horrible mistake and had put the wrong red tag in that Odyssey. It somehow got switched and had we sold it for that price it would have been around a 2500.00 loss for the company.

In spite of that glaring error, the customers actually offered quite a bit less than the mismarked price.

When the rookie sales gal brought the offer to the Sales Manager, he thought she had made a huge mistake and he asked her to bring him the red tag.

He called me in to help at that point. Being the kind of a store we were he agreed that we would suck up the mistake and sell it for the 2500.00 loss.

I went out introduced myself and sat down. I explained the situation and what had happened but they didn't believe me. They yakked back and forth in their foreign tongue and refused to budge.

Knowing I was getting nowhere I thanked them for not buying the car. I told them that I would honor that price BUT, if the left the store the deal was off and I was changing the tag.

They left and stood out on the sidewalk yakking back and forth for another ten minutes. Meanwhile the Sales Manager was hoping and praying they would finally leave. They did leave finally and I mad up another tag raising the price more than 3000.00.

TWO HOURS later, they came screaming back into the store..." WE TAKE CAR"

I said, great! and had the sales gal bring my revised tag into the store.

They stared at my revised tag and had an intense conversation that I couldn't understand and finally said..." NO NO NO NO NO...we buy other price"

It was SO HARD to maintain my coolness at that point but I gently reminded them of my earlier conversation. They mumbled and grumbled and slowly walked to their car shaking their heads"

The Odyssey sold later that day for the tag price.

fezo · September 2013

" That is when the sales manager came out of his office and threw the MOOCH out of the showroom and refused to sell him the car. "

I love a happy ending....

Hey! I finally found my donor! He's out in Wisconsin. Have an email and a phone message out to him. we will see...

sb55 · September 2013

I used to commute from Northern Westchester to LIC, NY, plus had a summer place on Lake Champlain I put on about 40,000 miles a year on my primary ride. My trades got KILLED. Now that I live on the lake full time, I put less than 8,000 miles TOTAL on my 2 cars because I never want to leave! (Miata + Sierra pick up)

abacomike · September 2013

OK, a story! One I've told before in these forums but every time I get reminded of that glorious day I smile and feel all warm and happy inside!

When I became a sales manager at my last dealership, we had similar situations, but with true MOOCHERS! Whenever a salesperson had reached the end of the line with customers, I would come out with a pre-printed form on a dealership letterhead. I would sit down at the table with the customers and the salesperson and make them an offer that was at or, at times, below invoice. I would write their names on the form, the VIN # of the car, and my final price. Most of the time, the customer would refuse and counter at several hundred, even thousands of dollars lower. I asked them to read the statement and sign the form, which I had already signed. It stated that once the customer left the showroom, they would not be able to buy the car for the price listed. Most of the time, they signed and left - but every so often the customer accepted the offer and got a stupendous deal on a new car.

Often, the customer would return after leaving and accept the numbers listed on the form. That was after they had shopped my price and could not buy a car so low in price. I reminded them that yesterday, they could have bought the car for that number, but not today.

I know this sounds cruel, but after working with a customer for many, many hours and offering them a great deal NOW, and have them leave, I was not about to repeat the interactions with them again. I was ALWAYS above board with my customers and never lied to them. When the owner made me lie to a customer one day, I quit on the spot and retired with my pension.

tifighter · September 2013

As it turns out, the Lot Attendant had made a horrible mistake and had put the wrong red tag in that Odyssey.

So what happened to the lot attendant?

houdini1 · September 2013

He is now a U.S. Senator.

oldfarmer50 · September 2013

"... he's a Senator..."

You beat me with that response by 4 minutes. Darned, if great minds don't think alike.

driver100 · September 2013

I used your method for the lease on my CC that I'm picking up on Sunday.

Way to go FF....I think you will really like your new CC. We love our Passat and Audi...VW knows how to make driving fun.

nyccarguy · September 2013

Wow! That's a lot of driving! I'm impressed! I commute from Stamford, CT to The South Bronx 6 days a week. My wife works less than 3 miles from our house, but she's always picking up or dropping off one of the kids, grocery shopping, Costco... It all adds up. Whenever we go somewhere as a family on the weekend, summer vacation, we take the Pilot.

driver100 · September 2013

He can't park in the union lot in any car that's not certified American (ironically my Mazda qualifies). And so we wait.

Only a union could come up with a rule like that. I once belonged to the teamsters union....glad I don't have to put up with that nonsense anymore.

I worked in management for a firm that had two unions, the drivers and the warehouse workers. When the drivers went on strike the warehouse workers cried...mostly single women who didn't want to go on strike, when the warehouse workers almost went on strike the drivers were worried....welcome to the union brothers and sisters.

sb55 · September 2013

At least you can avoid bridges and tolls. It was 44 Miles to the Whitestone bridge and the last 11 miles were killer (or 1st 11 miles on the way home). Going home always took longer no matter what time I left. I sure don't miss that part of life.

nyccarguy · September 2013

"bridges & tolls..." Yup! You are correct. I grew up in Rockland County, & moved into the city when I graduated college. Once I decided I'd had enough of Manhattan, I went looking for condos in Westchester & ended up in Hartsdale (big $$$$$$$ mistake) for that reason. My Dad (who I work for & am very close with) said to me: "Listen, I don't care how much cheaper a place is here in Rockland, but YOU DO NOT want to have to deal with THE BRIDGE (Tappan Zee) every day."

So I bought a home in Stamford a little over 3 years ago (no bridge, no tolls, a little further up, good schools, & affordable taxes compared to Westchester). My house is 1.5 miles from the Merritt & 3 miles from I-95. The AM commute is a snap as long as I am out of the house by 6:20 AM. 40 - 45 minutes average. The PM commute takes a little longer, 50 minutes average. The only thing that's a real killer for me are the "summer getaway days" & holidays. When people go up to their cape houses, it can easily take me 1 1/2 hours to get home. I think a few times it took me over 2 hours & once in a snowstorm it took me 4 solid hours.

I'm glad you are enjoying your time:) I'm sure it is well deserved!

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