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General Motors discussions



  • "Whatever you do, Rocky, don't look at this.
    Oh, and to save you the math: 332hp 5250 rpm and 356 ft-lb 2000 rpm."

    Now why in the HELL doesn't Ford bring this to the US?!?!? They haven't had anything that even resembles a sports sedan since the SVT Contour went away in 2000. Too bad they drive on the wrong side of the road down under... I have a friend that goes there on business a couple times each year. Would be a great mount for a rural mailman, though! :shades:
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,993
    Does anyone remember the seats in the old Audi 200's. I still haven't found more comfortable seats than those guys. I wished GM, would take one of those and clone it for the next CTS :blush:

  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,993
    I've always been mad at our dinosaurs that build cool cars over sea's and don't give us the same benefits. :cry:

  • Also notice that you can get a 6 speed manual with ANY engine, not just the base 4 or 6, or even at all these days! Americans are a shiftless (lazy) lot... I saw an blurb in R&T a couple months ago that said someting like 80-90% of cars sold in Europe had manual trannys, while it was less than 10% in the US. There have been many cars I've considered (like the Lincoln LS8), then ditched because they were auto-only. :mad:
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    Well in 1998 I was not old, but I was looking for a nicely styled car, which the Corolla was ( actually the best looking one, styled after the 1992 Camry, which was their best style), with good gas mileage, reliability, with good resale, and really good build to it. It replaced the Achieva I had. I have short legs, but had the seat pushed back pretty far, so yes it was not the best in roominess. The Corolla and Camry tend to bobble on the freeway in high winds. Sometime the transmission hesitates to kick down to first when launching from an on-ramp from a slow roll. These are the only issues with the car in seven years of ownership. Drove it on longer trips for vacations, and lost of short hops to the store as well. The car looked almost brand new seven years later. No creaks and moans, nor wind noise. It was like a mini-luxury car -- yeah, I know a bit too small for luxury, but the feel of a good ride and quality materials used inside was very good. Now they use more hard plastic and the car seems too tall. Do not like it as well. -Loren

    P.S. For all of you that love the design of the Lucerne, note the back end is an enlarged Corolla style from the 1998 style. Personally, I think it worked better for a smaller car. They need to modify the rear on the Lucy.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,993
    I have to agree we are lazy. I will always prefer a manuel in a performance car over a auto. I think one reason why the ratio is so high is because we don't teach kids how to drive a stick in drivers ED. :mad:

  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,993
    Loren, you keep cracking me up. You are a very detailed person which isn't a bad thing pal. :D

  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,993
    I will see y'all in the morning. Gotta get ready for work. :cry:

  • w9cww9cw Posts: 888
    I remember my last business trip to Europe - a trip to Geneva, Switzerland. I picked up a Ford Focus (the really neat European version of course) with a 5-speed manual. When I picked up my Swiss colleague to attend a conference, he was absolutely shocked to discover an American driving a stick shift vehicle. He said (and I quote exactly): "I thought all Americans drove automatics." Wideglide is right, the vast majority of European vehicles are stick shifts. Not only that, but they get all of the cool vehicles as well.
  • Now here's an issue to get us back ON TOPIC... GM, Ford & Mopar need to start offering MANUAL TRANSMISSIONS on ALL models. That might make some sales that now are going to the Japanese and Europeans simply because they DO offer manual trannys. I know that is a deal killer in MY book.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    The Yukon, Tahoe and Suburban are more mass market than almost any car.

    The comment was "none". I would list 7, but it depends on the definition. Is the Aura a hit? Yes. Some just do not know it yet. In a month all will. ;)

    The newest vehicle you listed is the Cobalt and that has been out two years now. And the Cobalt is sellng pretty well now. About 240K per year compared to Civic 370K and sales keep going up. I did not list it because I would not call it a "certifiable" hit. The others are kinda out of the "few last years". I think the Impala was also missed in the list. It is doing pretty well at about 320K per year. But again not a "certifiable" hit.

    but you are right. We will have to see how the new mass market cars do.
  • "The Yukon, Tahoe and Suburban are more mass market than almost any car."

    IMHO, big SUV's are on the way out, with the cuurent oil/gas situation. Sales of them are slumping badly. Soon they will become (once again) niche vehicles bought by those actually NEED them. People are waking up and realizing they don't need an Expedition or Suburban that gets 13MPG to haul 2 kids and some groceries. Hence the rapid expansion of the smaull-ute and crossover vehicle markets.
  • 210delray210delray Posts: 4,722
    That's a non-starter, even though I've always had a manual in my fleet.

    We Americans have long since voted with our feet! In fact, despite its relative expense, the automatic transmission took the country by storm when it became available on every US make and model in the 50s, easily outpacing power steering and power brake take rates (and of course, way ahead of the then-miniscule a/c take rates).
  • alp8alp8 Posts: 656
    the reason American drivers adopted the automatic tranny is because driving a manual prevents them from reaching into the back seat to smack their kids
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    Au contraire - I drive a manual and I have NO problem reaching into the back seat to smack the kids.

    I shift really quickly. Leaves me plenty of time for the other pleasures in life....
  • Or stuffing their face with a Big Mac. LOL
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    first came along, some in the press speculated that Ghosn could gain a great deal from the Opel/Vauxhall distribution networks in Europe - since Renaults are sold mostly in France. Ghosn sure sounds eager to push this thing forward from his latest remarks. Guess we'll know the outcome in a couple of weeks, huh?

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 20,072
    How can you eat a Big Mac and talk on a cell phone while changing gears????

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 20,072
    I would love to have a manual, but in the kind of traffic most people face today, it is really pointless. Just when you get into 3rd you'll have to stop and start all over again.

    So, if 90% of North Americans want automatics it just doesn't pay to make manuals.

    When in Spain a few years ago manuals were about $150 a week to rent, automatics about $500, because thay are so rare (and I guess they can take advantage of American tourists) ;)

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    Our family car was a Falcon station wagon. I would guess more like 85 HP, unless it had an optional engine, but that was 1960's :blush:
    It was overhauled every 20 to 30K miles due to smog apparatus mucking up the engine.

    Yeah, would it not be something to see Aussie Falcons and Holdens all over the roads of America. Now there would be some true stock car racing.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    What the heck does GM get? GM sure does not need any more platforms.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    Gm could make major inroads by offering manuals on their midsize sedans. It may only be 10-20% of the market, but it's still 10-20%. Half of them are in my situation. We hate small cars because they are cheap on the suspension, have small engines, and of coure, the interiors suck.

    But we don't want to have to pay to buy a C230 or BMW 3 series. So we begrudgingly buy automatics as we don't want a small 4 cylinder tin can.

    But 5% of the market flooding to GM because they offer their better vehicles in a stickshift... Marketing gold.

    Seriously - if GM offered a stickshift in any of their V6 or larget engines for under 30K, I'd buy one tommorrow. Big engines and a manual transmission are what made us love muscle cars in the first place. And 250+HP in ANY engine qualifies it as a muscle-car. All that's missing is the 5 speed. :)
  • kapbotkapbot Posts: 113
    About a month ago, I bought a Saturn Ion with the 2.4, 5 speed.I would not have bought this car with the automatic tranny.
    I was surprised at the number of manual trans Ion available, considering that I bought a Saturn.
    I thought that most Saturns would be purchased by non car people, like my mother, who wouldn't drive anything but an auto.
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    A congressman once said, " a billion here and a billion there, and sooner or later it adds up to real money."
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    Well the standard CTS is a stick. Never saw one on the lot. People do not seem to want one these days. The CTS is a reliable car, according to Consumer Reports, and may actually be a Cadillac which would be fun to drive, and own, with or without a stick. One of a couple interesting works from GM. The Corvette is a pretty hot number, with stick or not.

    As for smaller cars with good interiors, which are not tin can cars, they make those already. Most are Japan make, and some are Korean brands. Once you get away from the domestic small cars with cheap interiors, the World changes. Actually, it changed years ago. ;)
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    Test drove a Mustang GT with a stick. A fairly stiff clutch. I would not want to use such a clutch every day. Maybe for a day or play, or if I was one to be doing some track time, but in no way as a daily driver. It is simply too heavy.

    Maybe the clutch or how well the stick works is an issue with some cars. Mostly it is a preference of the buying public to not have a stick which makes them so rare. I would like to try one of those Tiptronic automatics some day. Sounds kinda interesting.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 5,159
    Serioiusly though, GM buyers tend to go for the V6's. Year after year of sales at GM shows that when a 4 cylinder is offered the customers choose the V6.

    Perhaps that's because if a buyer wants a 4 cyl they are looking for refinement and are not finding it with GM?

    I think it's a mistake to not have a good 4 just because few GM buyers want them. GM may be excluding a good number of potential buyers. People starting out in their late teens/early 20's often get smaller 4 cylinder cars (frequently a Japanese nameplate). Once these youngsters have a good experience with Honda, Toyota, etc., then GM may never get a sale from them. And thusly GMs demographics age along to the point where their market share suffers big time.
  • Uhh, Europeans get all the cool vehicles because unlike many Americans, Europeans are SERIOUS drivers. Americans must have vehicles that will fit their OVERWEIGHT butts, feel like a living room when driving, and have enough room for their rugrats and gawd knows what else.
  • 62vetteefp in answer to your question regarding Toyota's styling of the Camry for marketing in other countries, I think they just change the names. There really isn't that much difference in styling

    I noticed this when I went to Australia last spring (gorgeous country by the way). Cars that were actually Camry's had different but very similar moldings of plastic or metal on the rear and and perhaps sides.

    The cars also had names like Vienta which Australians would better connect with because much of their ancestry is European.

    General Motors is big there only because they own huge shares of a popular Korean auto company by the name of Holden that has a significant market share there. You rarely see anything if at all with a GM nameplate on it in Australia; at least not the area I was at (Gold Coast, Broadbeach, Southport)
  • >they don't seem to have anywhere near these kind of QC issues

    Do you have data for that statement or it more perpetuation of the mantra? I read the Camry woes, various honda problem discussions. Starting with the 03 Accord, it sounds like regression to the mean is occuring.

    >GM cuts corners wherever they can

    I found that when I test drove Camry and Accord I felt and saw minimum in everything. I called it minimization. That was in 02. Have things drastically improved?

    How do you expect the American public to forget about 30 year of the unbelievable horrors of bad quality cars they embarrassed us with. A couple years ago GM admitted in it's own print advertising they had been producing crap for the last 25 years. THERE, there's your supporting data sir.

    Anyone with the slightest bit of test drive and ownership experience knows that American car quality just is not up to par with comparable European and Japanese models. IF it was, GM wouldn't be having so many problems...
This discussion has been closed.