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Comments
GM cannot afford this sort of delay.
I'm not sure if the two situations are directly comparable, in that GM's product plans may be a core part of the problem here, so correcting them midstream may not be so bad. (For example, is the next Malibu replacement going to be any more promising than is the current one, and would it be coming out quickly enough to make a difference?)
If Nissan could hand off some drivetrains to GM, while interior quality and ergonomics were improved and some designers could get to work designing an attractive, distinctive body to match, then GM might have the opportunity to have a winner. It strikes me that most of GM's weaknesses are in its styling and powertrains, so if energy is put into the former and Nissan allowed to rectify the latter, then Ghosn might be onto something.
Hey! I take issue with the Torino comment. The 1970-71 Torinos were very good looking cars - especially with the hidden headlights. The 1972 "carp face" Torino had a beautifully curvy body and the 1973 kept the body but received a more conservative nose job. Ugly - not hardly.
Just for full disclosure, I was the proud owner of a 1970 Torino GT.
We remember the past as being better than it was. Those 70's cars were lucky to get to 100,000 miles, todays 250,000 or more. Oil changes from 3,000 miles to 5 or 6 and many cars 15,000 miles between oil changes. Then there's greasing everytime....and carburetors, and flooded engines. Now we have thermometers that give you outside temperature, GPS, cell phones, bluetooth.......Jeez, maybe you're right!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
It isn't as glamorous for one reason, there are so many cars on the market now, so the newer model has a lot more competition. In the 70's it was a Malibu or a Valiant or Fairlane, now there is a choice of about 10X as many cars to choose from, so the current Malibu loses some of it's glamor!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I am assuming you are talking about the GM push rod engines. I do not want to broach this well worn debate here, so far the sake of argument, let us say the push rods are a problem. I have seen nothing credible to suggest GM's new family OHC engines are anything but a match for the Nissan engines. Arguably, given reliability rankings, GM's are better. GM also has a 6 speed automatic tranny about to launch as well.
Seems to me, you could move the 2.8 and 3.6 litre engines into all GM products for a lot less money than a merger will burn up.
As for styling: Nissan wowed people for a couple of years. The wow factor seems to be dying off. How will a merger bring it back?
Add the overwhelming and seemingly insurmountable problem with Europe (and South America) where every single Renault has an equally acceptable Opel/Vauxhall counterpart, while neither has a decent luxury presence, and this merger idea seems dead in the water to me.
I think that this may be what the media analysts are missing, and what I was missing myself until I started looking at this from another angle. I'm willing to bet that the platform sharing/ synergies approach is not what Ghosn has in mind at all for the first few years of an "alliance" (and it's not being described as a merger for a reason).
My best guess is that Ghosn is approaching this in the same way that a private equity firm would approach an investment. Typically, private equity firms find troubled but mature companies, bring in expertise in the form of a new management team, consultants, etc., and then invest cash with the goal of making the acquired firm profitable. The private equity firm's focus is on making the acquired firm profitable, so that it can appreciate in value and possibly sold off later, which it allows the PE firm to generate a high return on its investment.
In other words, this may not be your typical auto industry M&A deal, where the goals are typically to add new markets and/or to share technologies. Ghosn may be viewing this as a chance to use his turnaround expertise to create significant returns on the equity that Nissan and Renault would receive in exchange for their cash, just as a private equity investor would.
When approached from this angle, it could make sense. Ghosn provides the expertise, while Renault and Nissan provide the money that allows Ghosn to work his magic. There's no need to blend operations to make the GM component of the deal work -- Ghosn just needs to build cars that North Americans want to buy, and Renault and Nissan both profit from the profits generated by their investments in GM, even if they never share a single part or platform.
I concede the point. While a merger would not work, an equity play keeping both companies intact but making them profitable, might.
I still think the best of all worlds is a Renault/Nissan/Ford merger. The problem there is the Ford family and Foundation control so much of Ford, they would have to be on board. Apparently, Ghosn has been unable to work his magic on the venerable Ford family.
GM, on the other hand, has Kerkorian against it. After Kerkorian, most GM stock is held by a few large funds such as CALPERS and Fidelity. The funds have less of an emotional stake in GM than the Ford Family and Foundation do in Ford (though arguably, the Foundation has a fiduciary duty to sell to Renault Nissan if the price is right)
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Well the French Labor Union makes the UAW look like [non-permissible content removed] cats pal. Ghosn told Renaults union in the Detroit news he wasn't going cut jobs. Ghosn isn't a butt-head like that and will find alternatives to solve problems. Ghosn I personally believe if he becomes the CEO of GM also will ask the UAW to become more flexible in it's workrules and in return he will build Nissans here in the United States in idle plants.
Rocky
Delphi's situation isn't so bright as I've explained in my previous posts.
I would expect nothing less than having the best run GM to new heights like the golden era. :shades:
Rocky
Rocky
Now I'd say you're going too far.
My guess: Kerkorian bought in on the cheap, and he wants return on his investment. He knows Wagoner is not the guy to do it (he has made no secret about his impatience), so he wants a more qualified replacement. Ghosn is a great choice, not only because he is a stellar turnaround guy, but also because he carries credibility with Wall Street and is promising to bring in billions of dollars and resources that GM desperately needs to create some new home run products.
What GM needs is its own version of the Altima, not in the literal sense, but a bread-and-butter car that people (not just Avis) actually would like to have in their garages. A great car that gets people into GM showrooms and can be sold in volume, that will lead happy customers to pitch GM to their friends, who will in turn buy future GM products because they've decided to give them another chance. Ghosn could hit a homer, while Wagoner can't even find the stadium...
Todays Family Sedan smokes 80% of the 1960's Muscle Cars. I always heard story's from my older relatives including my father how powerful those cars were. I said out of the factory, My Acura TL 6-speed would blow the doors off your GTO. He got mad.
I said back then a forward pass in football, wasn't yet invented. :P
Rocky
Rocky
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Mercedes was the exception not for common folk.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Based on the two-door Holden Monaro, the GTO had a surprisingly short life span in the U.S. Holden built just over 40,000 GTOs, and GM announced earlier this year that it was phasing out the nameplate because of dwindling interest by consumers.
The Adelaide plant saw the last GTO roll off the line in mid-June; it was shipped to the U.S. a week later, according to the Sydney Morning Herald. Production totaled 40,808 vehicles.
The newspaper reports that Holden's performance division, Holden Special Vehicles, is planning a special edition of the Monaro: a limited run of 50-100 individually numbered HSV cars badged as the Holden GTO.
Holden also has confirmed it will market a second-generation Monaro coupe for the Australia market, based on the new Commodore sedan. Here's the twist: The 2009 Chevrolet Camaro will share the same rear-wheel-drive architecture (known internally as Zeta) as the Commodore/Monaro, which could be assembled in North America and then shipped back to Australia.
What this means to you: No more GTOs — at least not before model year 2009.
Rocky
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=116031
lemko, here ya go pal.
Rocky
DETROIT — In what is widely regarded as the next move in a high-stakes automotive chess game, the General Motors board of directors on Friday gave its blessing to preliminary discussions with Renault and Nissan.
The result could be a historic three-way partnership among the global companies.
The move sets the stage for a pivotal meeting next week between GM Chairman and CEO Rick Wagoner and Carlos Ghosn, the chief executive of both Nissan and Renault. Billionaire shareholder Kirk Kerkorian, who owns 9.9 percent of GM, argued for the alliance in a strongly worded June 30 letter to Wagoner. The letter, part of a federal regulatory filing, pushed the possibility of the mega-alliance into the public limelight.
In a teleconference meeting today, the GM board authorized the company's management to "weigh the potential benefits of such an alliance in order to assist the board in its decision making," said GM Director George Fisher. In a statement, GM said Wagoner will lead the talks.
"General Motors has a lot of experience with different types of alliances, and some have provided significant benefits to GM's competitive position and financial strength," said Wagoner. "We will enter into discussions with the managements of Renault and Nissan with an open mind — eager to hear their ideas of how an alliance between our companies might work to our mutual benefit. Given the complexity of any potential relationship, it has to be carefully considered on its merits before coming to any conclusions."
Analysts are questioning the wisdom of another GM alliance, especially since the company has been disentangling itself from such partnerships — including ones with Fiat, Fuji/Subaru, Suzuki and Isuzu — in recent months. In addition, the company is deep into a major turnaround strategy that includes plant shutdowns and 30,000 job cuts. GM said the board "continues to fully support" GM's current North American turnaround strategy.
Widespread media speculation has focused on Kerkorian's supposed end game — moving Wagoner out and putting turnaround wizard Ghosn at the controls of the world's largest automaker.
What this means to you: Today's move by the GM board puts even more pressure on Wagoner to hasten the automaker's turnaround. But it doesn't signal yet that the mega-alliance is will happen in the near future.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=116032
Rocky
The 510 was an advanced, and shall we say, inexpensive car in 1970. The poor man's BMW, it was.
The Mercedes had enough steel in those days to build a couple today.
-Loren
-loren
-Loren
1970 Malibu
Not saying it didn't look good in its day, or if you see them in mint condition today, but I'd rather have the toaster 2006 model. Would you actually pay $20,000 for one of those????? :shades:
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I haven't heard one person have a problem yet with GM's DOD
Rocky
Who would pay $20K for a classic? Lots of people. I don't have a million to spend, but if I did, I would likely have a Malibu or Camaro as one of my dream cars in the garage. A Jaguar XKE comes to mind as well. In todays cars, the DB9, or the SLK are pretty fine a stylin' line! Not too many coupes, below $20K to choose from. I guess there is the Scion and the Tiburon. Tib. looks good. The Scion tC is kinda interesting in a way. Then there is the Cobalt. Not too exciting.
As for today's Malibu, I would say why not just get something like the Impala on a discount or used. Or maybe the G6. Don't care to own electric assist steering cars though, but what the hey. Looks like the Chrysler 300 is todays Malibu.
The LaCrosse is a pleasing enough style. Almost a retro 90's of a Buick like car -- oh that's right it is a Buick. Kinda like it in a way. I have not driven one. Just looks wise, it may indeed be better than the classics of the 60's. In a way it is a little 60's like, yet with more modern handling, gas mileage, and such. Within the choices of sedans, it appears to get lost. On the boards it is all about Camry, Honda, Altima, Sonata, and then the rest. Perhaps it is the image of same ol' stuff - this Buick. Or it is your Father's car ( but Dad owns a Camry ). Maybe it was years of GM seeming to let go of pushing Buick brand. To me, the word tired seems to be it. GM has an image, not saying right, wrong or indifferent, or being tired. Which is too bad. People may not try out that LaCrosse, Lucerne, G6 (like the looks of the coupe GTP), or Impala, since the train seems to have lost its steam. Tired.
Maybe GM needs the pep pill, like the 300 was to Chrysler! I saw a black Lucerne which looked great. And the Solstice and Sky have a youthful playfull look about them. But here we go - how was it used to leverage? Not!
If GM have made lots of Solstice Coupe's, with air, for around $20K, that GM name would be everywhere, as it was for Datusun when the 240Z came to fruition. Don't see many G6 Coupes. Get them in the showroom, and have an open house at dealerships to learn about the cars, WITHOUT buy me now presure on the customers. Get three new cars per divison ready, instock, and on display, before an open house.
-Loren
Hey, Rocky, it was 8-6-4. Ya know that is how the Caddy went. Four wouldn't budge the beast. I like the 427 DeVille, way back when. But I suppose the gas mileage varied from pain, to extreme distress. Today, the Caddy V8 is listed fairly high. Possible to break 24 MPG on freeway - no doubt. For the car in the LaCrosse class, I would say V6 is appropriate, though a small block V8 would work. Not sure why the DoD is needed. A 303HP engine is no monster big one.
I knew I was close on the 4-6-8 or 8-6-4 :P The Northstar outshines the 427 Deville IMO. I agree the ol' Northy could use a few extra gears and thank-god it has VVT finally. I like DOD technology, and hopefully if the claims you're are saying about the mileage not being any better is true, then hopefully they don't give up. I think a hybrid, when combined with DOD and a 6-speed automatic/manuel can and will yield very good fuel economy numbers.
However Loren, I will be interested to see what the LS-4 LaCrosse looks like on the inside
Rocky
There are probably many others sold in the US today...
Edit: I forgot that Isuzu had offered their direct-injection V6 in 2004.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_Direct_Injection
1968 Malibu
Not too bad, and better than the 1970 which was bigger and heavier looking. :sick:
However, I would say for a 1968 this Plymouth GTX looks a lot better;
1968 Plymouth GTX
This would look better than 75% of the new cars out there.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
One thing to keep in mind is that manual transmissions these days are more and more commonly given short, aggressive gearing for better acceleration, which pretty well wipes out the gas mileage advantage over an automatic. Hybrid batteries are expensive to replace, but they usually have very shallow cycles in hybrid vehicles, so they should last the typical life of the car (barring any manufacturing defects).
This "Malibu" looks very nice...but I still prefer the Plymouth. It would be more fun to bring back a "Super Bee"
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Isn't that a 1964?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
-Loren
GM's engine lines in the 60's were somewhat different from division to division. All, but Chevy and Cadillac, had a 455 by the 70's, with Chevy getting a 454.
The 8-6-4 engine was only in production on the 1981's, except for the limo's.
http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060708/AUTO01/607080340/- - 1148
Rocky
http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060708/AUTO01/607080375/- 1148
Rocky
Rocky
Rocky
Rocky
All eyes will be on Nissan CEO Carlos Ghosn to see if the carmaker's softening U.S. sales beef up with a slew of upcoming product launches.
If Carlos Ghosn has all the answers, why are Nissan Motor Co.'s U.S. sales taking a dive?
As General Motors Corp.'s board mulls a three-way alliance with Nissan and its French partner, Renault SA, some Detroit executives are questioning the durability of Ghosn's much-acclaimed turnaround of Nissan.
Ghosn is chief executive of both Renault and Nissan and also heads Nissan's North American management team. Now GM investor Kirk Kerkorian wants to enlist him to speed up a recovery at the U.S. auto giant.
But Nissan is also struggling in the cutthroat American market after a lull in new-model launches. Its sales plunged 19 percent last month and are down 6 percent in the first half of the year. Ghosn warned investors recently that the dry spell would lead to lower earnings for Nissan in the first half of the Japanese fiscal year starting on April 1.
Nissan's difficulties were exacerbated by the management's decision to delay the launch of the Sentra to improve the styling and a recall this spring of Altima and Sentra cars for engine repairs.
But he expects profits to rebound in the fall when the Japanese automaker rolls out a raft of models, including new Altima and Sentra sedans.
"Come October, the hardest part will be behind us," Ghosn said in a recent interview with The Detroit News. "After that, we'll be rich in product launches."
Indeed, a study by Prudential Equity Group predicts Nissan will have the freshest lineup next year of any major player in the U.S. market. It also estimates that Nissan's model-renewal rate will be the fastest of the leading automakers for the three-year period ending in 2007.
Those are crucial measures because automakers with youthful model ranges tend to generate more sales and gain market share, according to Prudential.
"It's a fundamental point," says Ghosn. "There's a direct relationship between the capacity to develop cars quickly and renew your lineup relatively quickly, and profitability."
In a worrying sign for Detroit's automakers, Prudential estimates that the leading Japanese automakers are renewing their ranges faster than the domestics.
"It seems almost impossible to distinguish yourself in a crowded market without something new and dramatic," said Chance Parker, executive director of product research at consulting firm J.D. Power and Associates.
"If you redesign cars often, they'll be better, because every time you redesign a vehicle, you have a chance to take advantage of the latest technology," said Karl Brauer, editor at large at Edmunds. com.
"The speed of technological development has increased in the past 15 years. A car that's six years old now is much older than a car that was six years old in 1996."
Pressure to redesign vehicles faster, adding to automakers' development expenses, is one reason why many analysts are not rejecting a three-way Renault-Nissan-GM alliance out of hand, despite a long trail of failed cross-border automotive deals.
Under the terms of the Renault-Nissan alliance, the two carmakers share platforms and components and re-invest the savings in vehicle development programs.
Ghosn's next objective is to roll out new vehicles at steady intervals and eliminate those long empty stretches.
"If you have 10 products coming every year, it's better than having five in the first year, then 12 in the second, and then in the third year, 15," he said. "Obviously, you do a better job in engineering, in manufacturing, in quality, in marketing and in selling if you have a good (even distribution) of launches."
What this means to me : I want Carlos Ghosn, as CEO of GM, because we might be able to get fresher and better cars every three years instead of having to look at old and tired designs like the Saab 9-5.
Rocky