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Looks like Toyota's advertising has worked well with you. Almost 50% of Toyotas are imported. They are now the 2nd biggest seller of vehicles in the US and the largest importer of vehicles. A LOT of their parts still come from outside the US. In fact the only non domestice companies that build most of their vehicles here are Nissan and Honda and huge percentage of their parts are also imported.
Like I said, Honda is one of the companies that produces most of their vehicles here. Only 25% were imported last year. But very few other companies come close to that percentage. So you can be happy that you bought an american car.
So Astra comes over pretty much the same car as the original, built in Germany at Opel? Maybe if it catches on, the production moves to the States for that one. Looks a heck of a lot more sporty than the Ion.
If I was making a recommendation for stocking the lots of Saturn, I would say to have a couple to three levels of the XR, including the basic available on the lots. Seems like only buffed up ones on the lot for sale, with various add-ons and such, which really bumped the price. Some of the XE's on the lot had a little less add-ons, yet they all have something. Honda will have several packages to choose from. No, not always perfect in every package, but I found pretty much the package which fit, which lowered the price and delivered what I was shopping for the most. Surprisingly, they offered the trade-in price which was best and for the most money off the sticker as well. You may say they out dealt Saturn. The width of the Aura is also a skosh narrow. The transmission on the XE did the work, but the fun one was the XR's 6 speed tranny, with the more kick engine.
Loren
First quarter sales:
GM: --------- 909,094 down 5.6%
Ford: ------- 642,960 down 13.2%
Toyota: ----- 605,855 up 8.3%
DCX: -------- 593,234 down 3%
Honda: ------ 354,208 up 3.3%
Foreign automakers' strength grows; Toyota posts its best month ever as it dominates hybrid market.
Foreign automakers continued to strengthen their grip on the U.S. car and truck market last month, helped by some of the same market forces that are chipping away at Detroit's Big Three.
A beleaguered housing market and rising gas prices pushed even more car buyers away from pickups and large sport utility vehicles that have long been money-makers for Detroit.
While domestic carmakers saw sales drop anywhere from 4 percent to 9 percent in March, Toyota Motor Corp. shattered several sales records, buoyed by demand for its hybrids and passenger cars
http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070404/AUTO01/704040400
GM will be probably down slightly to even with retail volumes but down overall about 5% for the year. It is actually going to look worse soon for GM for two reasons.
Last years everybodies an employee sale was mid year and they will be compared to that soon.
Chrysler is having a going out of business sale and not telling anyone. They have huge incentives on their vehicles and that is taking huge domestic sales from GM and Ford. That is why they are only down 3%.
As a side note it looks like Daimler is not very happy with the bids they are getting for Chrysler. Bidders want huge give backs from the Union and the UAW is saying no. Pretty soon we may see Chrysler broken up for scrap and the parts sold off. Just like Delphi they may claim bankrupcty here in the states.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Are suppliers for parts for those cars located here but actually are foreign company owned?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
That is why I asked a question. If someone says its hard for people used to driving one type of engine to adjust to driving a different type of engine with a lower tech design I would assume that means the lower tech engine is presumed to be inferior. In other words, once you experience the bliss of driving an OHC engine its hard to drive an OHV engine. Is that not what you were saying?
"I can tell the difference once I step on the gas and for me that's enough. "
And how is that? Its kind of hard to say that when you already know what is under the hood. A better test would be to take someone who knows little about cars or engines and have them test cars with OHV and OHC engines and determine which ones felt and sounded course. You are already biased against OHV engines and thus once you get into a GM car you already have your mind made up that the engine isnt refined.
"The OHC revs a lot faster than OHV and operates more smoothly in the high RPM region."
In certain applications like a small Honda engine or a Ferrari engine. I dont think there is much difference in family car engines. Even if there is, I dont see how this is an advantage for OHC. The average buyer doesnt go around measuring the amount of time it takes to redline their engine in each gear.
Toyota's hybrid sales have taken off ever since they offered cut rate financing on the Prius. The rest of their hybrid models arent even big sellers. The true powerhouses at Toyota are camry and Corolla, its that simple. Those two vehicles sold nearly 80k units in March. That's more than all of Toyota's hybrids combined even if you subtract Camry hybrid sales. I think its interesting that NO ONE can stop Toyota's sales growth. Forget about GM and Ford, Honda and Nissan cant slow their progress either. It appears the new Altima is having little affect on Camry sales so far, maybe the Accord will make a dent.
So most people don't know what technology is under the hood until i.e. the tranny doesn't get into the right gear for a couple of seconds when they punch it 1/2 throttle to accelerate off a ramp for merging into traffic.
The choice of high numbers for gear ratios in the trans or in the final drive can mask lack of torque in the motor formost people's driving. Then the motor runs out of spin at higher speeds. They give up gas mileage in the process.
A higher torque OHV motor can be meshed with a 4-speed with great gearing choices and flexibility and give startling acceleration when I punch my own full-sized car just to see what it does or to "clean out the motor" and still give 32.5 mpg on the interstate portion from TN to Ohio yesterday, at 75-80 with 3 adults and full luggage load. I'll bet the motor was reving all the way up to 2200 or so. Who cares about 6500 rpm ratings unless you're driving home from the Smokey Mts. in 2nd gear.
I could care less if that's done with a 4-cyl or 6-cyl. I don't particularly feel need for an 8 cyl Northstar or I would own a new Lucerne.
In every topic that's pro GM the same things are tauted and cause friction heating up. I can even recall buying a different Mustang because I lusted after the higher horsepower rating. Horsepower ratings can be easily manipulated to "win" the horsepower wars (are they back again?) but the car had Less pep--less torque. It probably was slower to 60 also.
But youth and competitiveness sells lots of cars. The magazine writers make a living out of exploiting those testosterone-driven competitions, whether it's the horsepower rating or the luxury competitiveness. I left that stage years ago but understand how it's exploited.
GM needs to change its advertising to take advantage of that more.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
You are incorrect according to the attached:
GM -
Incentives according to Edmunds.com: average $2,855 per vehicle, up 5.1 percent from a year earlier.
Toyota -
Incentives: average $1,080 per vehicle, down 19.4 percent from a year earlier.
Honda -
Incentives: average $1,063 per vehicle, more than double the $528 a year earlier.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/BUSINESS/04/03/us.auto.facts.reut/index.html
the first quarter of 2007, GM said its retail sales were up 0.5%. Earlier
this year, LaNeve said he hoped GM would increase its retail sales in
2007.
Incentive spending per vehicle is down from $4,197 in 2004,
when it peaked, to about $2,843.
Edmunds.com Reports True Cost of Incentives for March
1- Honda CR-V: --------- 47,572 up 43%
2- Toyota RAV4: -------- 41,405 up 19%
3- Ford Escape: -------- 39,317 down 7%
4- Chevy Tahoe: -------- 34,875 down 22%
5- Ford Explorer: ------ 34,723 down 26%
6- Honda Pilot: -------- 34,081 down 2%
7- Chevy Trailblazer: -- 31,632 down 27%
8- Jeep Wrangler: ------- 31,591 up 79%
9- Toyota Highlander: --- 31,383 up 4%
10- Jeep. G. Cherokee; -- 30,856 down 24%
How about a link for that "I thik it was close to $2K per."
That article doesnt even tell you where those incentives figures come from.
The GM number clearly came from this site and CNN and Rueters are good enough for me on the others.
GM's incentives for February were higher because of the event they had for March Madness or whatever.
One month does not a quarter make and GM always has some sort of "event" going, so what's the difference?
My guess is those figures don't include financing deals.
No, probably not. You said incentives, and when I think of incentives, I think cash direct to the customer and/or dealer.
Please don't try to muddy the facts with financing or dealer discounts.
Are the motors and transmissions made in USA? Where are those assembled?
Not in the USA. U.S. companies, as well as, many companies around the world have had investments, or branches around the globe for over a century.
And trading is as old as the hills. Shipping goods to be bought by those afar is nothing new. I am sure GM will be happy to see their cars sold in China. Or would you recommend that they only by their local product?
Loren
I guess that is entirely possible in the Mid-West or East Coast, and the South, that it matter less.. Seems like imports sell well on the Left Coast, South-West, and North-West. Perhaps technology advances are more important here in the west, as wells as handling characteristics of cars. Most all of our race tracks have left and right turns to them. We buy antiques here too, but we just don't buy them new. Product matters.
Loren
Edmunds counts financing in their incentives calculations,
I didnt make that up so it seems like your beef is with Edmunds. Sorry, cant force them to not include financing offers. I think it's only fair because import manufacturers like to cover up incentives buy using subsidized lease deals instead rebates. Obviously, from a PR perspective low financing is better because you can say you arent resorting to discounting to move vehicles.
I thought Toyota's incentive spending was higher than that the last time I saw that info, but that could've been due to the extreme discounts on the 2006 Tundra. Or perhaps it was Nissan that really stuck out to me as being high.
"One month does not a quarter make and GM always has some sort of "event" going, so what's the difference? "
I dont know what point you are trying to make (other than your usual "GM sucks") but as 62Vette pointed out GM's overall incentive spending is down substantially over the last 2-3 years. This has been well documented and almost everyone knows this. Gm may still spend more per vehicle than Honda and Toyota but looks how many models GM sells for over $30k or even $40k compared to those two manufacturers, especially Honda. Higher MSRPs mean the dollar value of your incentives is higher.
Huh?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
"Just got the year-end sales figures from our crack team of automotive data editors and analysts. These guys have my ultimate respect, because they somehow manage to corral all the sales, pricing and incentives figures scattered throughout the automotive industry and transform them into something a journalist major can understand. Some of the more compelling figures from 2006:
1. General Motors' U.S. market share dropped to 24.6 percent, but the bulk of it came from cutting back on fleet sales. Not surprisingly, GM's incentive spending also dropped by 17.5 percent, to its lowest level since 2002 (and the lowest level of any domestic carmaker). Per vehicle incentive spending averaged $2,987. Our analyst are actually predicting an increase in GM market share for 2007.
2. Toyota's market share grew to 15.5 percent, and they officially became the third largest automaker (in terms of sales) in North America (displacing Chrysler). So the "Big 3" term is certifiably dead (or, at the very least, it now indicates a different group of automakers...). However, Toyota's incentive spending was at the highest level in five years, with an average of $1,061 per vehicle.
3. Nissan had the highest incentive spending of any Asian carmaker (that's Japan and Korea) with an average of $2,309 per vehicle (that's up 30 percent from 2005). Their market share dropped to 6.2 percent.
4. Honda's market share rose to 9.2 percent, while their average incentive spending was $720 per vehcle. However, the Pilot had record incentives at $1,550 and both the MDX and RL had incentives of over $2,000 throughout 2006.
5. Ford and Chrysler both lost market share. Ford's average incentive spending was $3,438 per vehicle, Chrysler's was $3,798 (both amounts are the highest in five years for each company).
6. Hyundai/Kia is on fire. They sold 12,000 vehicles in 1994; last year they sold 450,000 vehicles. Market share is up to 4.6 percent. Average incentive spending was $1,777 per vehicle. They should easily crack the half-million mark for sales in 2007."
Having experienced a made in japan tercel, I would jump at the chance to get a japan made rolla or camry, cars which I can afford. Just let me know where I can find one
Chrysler Group $4,351 $3,483 $4,039
Ford $3,121 $3,114 $3,258
General Motors $2,855 $2,688 $2,717
Honda $1,063 $1,116 $528
Nissan $1,810 $1,753 $2,310
Toyota $1,080 $1,091 $1,340
I know you are talking about 2006 incentives but according to Edmunds' data Ford, Nissan and Toyota all have lower incentives in March 2007 than March 2006. GM, Chrysler and Honda on the other hand have higher incentives than a year ago.
There is no way Toyota would ever discount like GM ridicoulsly did a few years ago. I'm sure GM;s incentives a few years ago were alot higher than Toyota' are now currently.
"When they were racking up big numbers with incentives people complained that those sales were artificial, now that they are decreasing incentives and the Asians are increasing them people are touting the impressive gains of the Asian automakers as proof that the Big 3 are going under. Make up your mind."
Still. The Asians don;t offer as much as incentives as the Domestics. I know Nissan incentives are up there but still not as high as GM's or Chrsylers.
As for Hyundai their sales of the 2006 Sonata to rental fleets in 2006 I think was a big pretty big number and Sonata sales dropped for the month of March of 2007 to 10K units sold from 17K units sold in the month of March of 2006.
Look at the cost of their products. Honda and Hyundai cant offer discounts equal to that of the BIg 3 because their products are mostly under $30k. Just looking at average dollar figures means nothing without knowing the average MSRP of the models sold. Honda only makes 5 products that can cross the $30k barrier and only the Odyssey and Pilot are likely usually over that barrier. GM/Ford/Chrysler have many models that sticker for over $30k or evern $40k (especially trucks) and thus bigger incentives are called for. The bottom line is incentives used to be a bad thing but now it appears people are saying that arent bad as long as you spend less than $2k per vehicle. If the Asians dont generate "artificial" demand as the domestics were accused of doing I dont see why they need incentives. GM bashers tell us that good vehicles dont need incentives and thus GM products must be crap since they need incentives. If that be the case, what do we say about Nissan and Hyundai products?
Ok 1487 I;m with you on the 30K-40K priced plus vehicles that you need incentives on them but GM used to discount like crazy a few years ago and not anything like the Asians are doing now. GM used to give away cars. I mean its one thing to have a incentive like 1500$ dollars cash back on a car but another thing just to give away cars like GM did a few years ago. The Japanese I don;t think are creating artificial demand like GM did a few years ago.
BTW,I will never say GM is crap if they give an incentive here and there like they are currently but not going crazy on the incentives like they did a few years ago.
A crappy product with no incentive is still a crappy product and a decent product with a lot of incentive is still decent.
Even though Hyundai offers a lot of incentives/dealer discount to move the Sonata/Azera I still consider those as good products and honest effort from Hyundai.
In looking at the incentives GM has well less than $2000 on all 2007's. It is the 2006 trucks that have huge $5000 discounts. They probably have few left though but the ones they do they are really giving away. Almost all 2007 cars have $500 or $1000 in incentives. Even the old 2007 Malibu only has $1000 on it.
General Motors plans to increase incentive spending on full-sized pickups following a decline in March U.S. sales.
"We look for that incentive level to rise we hope modestly," GM sales and marketing chief Mark LaNeve told analysts at the Morgan Stanley Global Automotive Conference in New York today.
LaNeve that GM's incentive level on pickups as "very low" and there was a lot of pressure in the marketplace.
"We are running $700 less than the Toyota Tundra, which is a whole new product," he said, but did not elaborate on how much more the company will spend on incentives.
GM's March U.S. sales declined 4.0 percent from a year earlier, driven declines in pickups and SUVs.
Sales of GM's Chevrolet Silverado dropped 8.6 percent, while GMC Sierra purchases were down 15.1 percent in March.
True but Tundra and Sequoia have $4000 rebates now.
I don't think all Onstar buyers are suckers. I'd consider getting it. It acutally does some pretty cool things, like popping your locks for you, calling for help if you're in an accident, etc. I think it'll even email you with diagnostics and service reminders. Greatest thing since sliced bread? No. But not a sucker play either.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
All Scions are imported. As are Prius, Yari, MR2, Echo, 4runner,FJ, Highlander, Land Cruiser and RAV4.
Toyota is doing the smart thing by building as few platforms here as possible but with as high as volume as possible.
If you are interested in any of the features then it is well worth it. Issue is most will only pay for what they can touch and feel in their hands. Few would actually buy a lojack system, few would buy the instantaneous unlock system (locked keys in car) and even fewer would pay for instant response to airbag/accident incidents. But many seem to feel they have to have the ABS system. Its a piece of mind thing. Not worth it too many.
And the first year is free. Sure it is in the MSRP of the vehicle but most compare the MSRP's and put little value in the OnStar.
I actually have it but I have small kids so I feel it is worth it for the airbag notification. i can see me unconscious and the person on OnStar talking to my kids. Worth it to me.
If you locked your keys in the car, how would you get in the car to press the Onstar button?
Additional US Camry capacity is being added at Subaru's plant in Indiana. That will produce 100K cars per year once the line is up to speed.
Actually, if you locked your cell phone in the car you ask someone to call OnStar and they unlock it as you watch.
Tracking a car stolen sounds like a good use of the OnStar, if ya want it back in that case.
How does OnStar work for accidents where the bags deploy. They send a 911 call, when they can not contact you. Now that I know. But how do they get the signal. Is it by way of satellite receiver, or by cell tower. Would expect it to be by way of contact with a satellite, if it has to always work, but I can not find information on the OnStar site as to just how it all works. The 911 by cell phone is a boosted signal, but not always enough. OnStar am I to assume is satellite for emergency calls only, if it works that way?
Loren
As for
"Honda and Hyundai cant offer discounts equal to that of the BIg 3 because their products are mostly under $30k"
...don't forget that Honda includes Acura, where almost all the transactions are over the $30K mark.
Also, you repeatedly make a remark I honestly don't understand, something to the effect that import dealers, especially Toyota, are well known to be discounting their models from MSRP. I doubt you suppose that Chevys are all sold at full MSRP, so I wonder what you mean by that statement? I will say that my local weekend paper is always full of GM and Toyota dealers squaring off with each other across the fold, with slasher deals for $1000s off MSRP for whatever their oldest models are.
And the reason that Cadillac has the highest cash incentives, I am sure, is because they are trying to push all those Escalades off the lots. Those, and do the DTSs get big cash rebates?
And 62vette, the Tundra rebate is still at $2000, not $4000. Now the Seqouia might get close to $4000 in some parts of the country, I'm not sure. It IS a 6-year-old model now.
And I remember reading an article not too long ago talking about how the market was so flooded in the United States that resale of all brands was depressed, and that it has resulted in automakers having to put some cash rebates out on most of their models because so many people are bringing trade-ins with them in which they are still hopelessly upside down. Fact of life in auto biz in the new millennium?
And as for Nissan, they have been at least half French for some time now, so the two Japanese companies that most go head to head are Toyota and Honda. The new Sentra and Altima already have discounts, rebates, and rock-bottom screamer pricing in the weekend ads...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
How come they don't have enough money to do it right, but can afford so many divisions?