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  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Problem with the Cobalt is that it look familiar when first introduced. Looked very much like the same ol' - same ol'. Nothing to set it apart from the rest, not in looks - not in gas mileage. The interior is OK, but not as good as the competition. Draw up something, shall we say revolutionary, and it would be good to go five years with little change, and perhaps a decade before a major upgrade.

    The Aura, and New Malibu seem fresh, with some good to better than average looks about them. The G6 is not bad, but I am guessing, just guessing, that it is seen as too familiar a face in the Pontiac line. There is something about the sedan which looked dated from day one, and a bit off balanced looks wise. Wonder how people are liking the electric assist steering? I tried out the G6 coupe from a year ago, as it was on sale as a left over, and decided the Aura was better. And I may add the Aura XR is that much better than the XE. I understand they are no longer using electric assist steering with the V6 in the G6 line. So what of the i4? Other than rental cars, I simply see few G6 cars around here. And the coupe is very rare. The hardtop convertible was kinda cool, though they forgot the roll bars in the design. Oh well.

    Wonder if the Cobalt some day is not made by the Daweo/GM division, or the GM/China plants to make it more profitable, while at the same time modern?

    After seeing the photos of the Solstice Coupe, one has to wonder why it was not first into production. It would have a trunk, easier to build without cowl shake, being a hardtop, less cost to build, hardtop requires no roll bars, would have filled a gap of the missing sporty car, like a Camaro, and it looks awesome. Price could easily be just over $20K, if they can build the drop top for that amount. The Solstice needs a few tweaks for comfort and to get any bugs out, and then it is good to go for primetime!
    Loren
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Wonder how that works if they went bankrupt like Kmart, then issue new shares as say New GM? I know the old Kmart shareholders got the shaft while the New Kmart shareholders made some serious bucks after the merger. I would imagine management would cash-out before the doom, then would be issued new shares.

    I take you are thinking GM is a buy then long term, and it will double in price. So what of an $8 per share Ford stock? Now there is beaten down and stomped on stock.
    Loren
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    gm and ford have cut back on fleet sales because they are not profitable

    They cut back on Rental fleet cars. they have increased other fleet sales (government, business)
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    You are right.

    I think it is safe to say that most people here are using "rental fleet" to mean fleet and you are correct. They are different animals.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • nortsr1nortsr1 Member Posts: 1,060
    1487...
    You make a very valid point about the cost of European vehicles (their cost and then comparing them to what it would cost for the SAME vehicle in the USA. I recently read an interesting post about the Ford Focus.
    Everyone is complaining as to WHY Ford does not bring us the European Ford Focus. The fact of the matter is that the same European Focus would have to sell in the USA for $20,000.00 or higher!!...and you know as well as I do that a Ford Focus is not regarded (here in the USA) as an OVER $20,000.00 vehicle. Sure, we would like to have it...but....it would not sell for the price competitively here.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    How much of the $20K Focus is the weak dollar vs the strong Euro? How much is built in tax? (They have a bit of that in Europe.)

    My real question is how much would it cost to build the same car over here? How much would it cost to build it in (and I hate saying this) in Mexico?

    Europe has unions and all the related matters (excepting basic health care)that we do.

    Anyone with any ideas? Obviously GM is looking at this as they start marketing European designed Saturns and such.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • nortsr1nortsr1 Member Posts: 1,060
    From what i read about the Focus comparo....it has to do not with the Euro as to the Dollar...but the Content of the vehicle. Supposedly much better material, content, etc. As to why they just don't bulid it over here, I have to assume the cost factor of retooling and whatever elkse it takes is just too much.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Yes, you could buy the Mazda3, which is the relative of the Euro Focus and handles fine. A slightly different looking Mazda3 could very well be sold in USA for $15K to $18K range. And yes, they could build any car in Mexico. The problems which VW is having must not be related to location of assembly.

    As for imports, my first new car was a GM of Europe, as in Opel Manta Rallye, and it was very tight, and great handling. The engine was the bummer, and was just one of those things. Most people had better experience with the Opels of 1973. At the time, I think Opel was the top selling in class in Europe. The new Astra hatch looks pretty cool. Could indeed be a fine little car. America has never warmed to the concept of hatchbacks however, and have in the past considered them to be more econo boxes. Times change -- OK, times change to a degree. The PT was a success. I bet, if they market the hatchback Saturn Opels as hip, fun, yet practical, as in spacious, it may sell. After years of great ads, VW ad agency seems to have hit the wall for ideas. Saturn World Cars, I think would be a great idea to run with. Sell both domestic, German, and Aussie cars under one roof. Just slide in Pontiac, which is going Holdens, into the Saturn World Sales.
    Buick could easily be the lower end line of Cadillac, like a LaSalle was. Or perhaps not. Would this diminish the value of Cadillac? Notice no Honda/Acura or Toyota/Lexus under one roof. Maybe it is not a good idea. Local dealership now has SAAB as the second line, but some years back it was Oldsmobile.
    Loren
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    To error is human, to fix the problem, divine.

    The denial of engine sludge problems was not a good thing - period.
    Perhaps Toyota's management learned a good lesson there.

    To identify a problem and fix it, and treat the customer well is key.

    What transmissions are being replaced? Thought that was a reprogramming as required issue? Engine recall? Have not heard of that one.

    When I had a Corolla, I was completely satisfied with warranty work done. Couple issues over time, and one thing with cost a few dollars after that in seven years, is not too bad. Like you say, you never know, they could build one tomorrow and have a tranny fall out. Things happen. Now if they happen too often, this is not good. If you couple reliability issues lasting years-being common in all cars, with less than desirable cars, and low resale value, that would really hurt. Not an issue yet with Toyota.
    Loren
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    Yeah, I was thinking you could work that since it's all off the 3 platform. Ford does make use of its worldwide presence and would do well to do more.

    First European car I drove was my uncle's Opel Kadette. Someone needed to drive my grandmother home and his car was the last in the driveway. I was hooked on little cars than handle very quickly. My normal car back then was my mom's Pontiac Tempest wagon...
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    But I do appreciate the humor m1miata and fezo; please keep it coming! ;) And you can always count on andre for some interesting facts from the past! Ditto lemko (e.g., Philly taxicabs).

    About design cycles, let me give it a shot (these are model years, not calendar years; please feel free to correct me as I'm going from memory):

    Civic: 1973, 80, 84, 88, 92, 96, 2001, 06.
    Corolla: 1969, 75?, 80, 84, 88, 93, 98, 2003 (to present).
    Accord: 1976, 82, 86, 90, 94, 98, 2003 (to present). 2008 redesign coming.
    Camry: 1983, 87, 92, 97, 2002, 07.

    Cavalier: 1982, reskinned in 1995, continued into early part of 2005 model year.
    Cobalt: 2005 to present.
    Celebrity: 1982-89.
    Lumina: 1990, 95.
    Malibu: 1968, 73, 78 to 83. Revived 1997, 2004, redesign for 2008.
    Impala/Caprice: 1971, 77, 91 to 96. Revived 2000, redesigned 2006.

    So from this, you can see that Toyota and Honda were on a 4-year cycle mainly in the 80s into the mid 90s or so, then began stretching it to 5 years. The Corolla will go 6 years apparently.

    Using Chevy as GM's example (their biggest division by far), cycles were much longer, but are now narrowing to match Toyota and Honda.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    The Opel Manta Rallye outhandled the Opel GT in 1973. The Kadette was a fuel effiecent little car like the Corolla. My very first car, before trading it back in for a used Mustang, was a used Ford Taunus which somehow got to the States from Germany.
    Loren
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Well they are buying the Mazda3. It is the popular Mazda, not the 6. And they are not particularly inexpensive compared to some others in class. The current US version of Focus is pretty much run its course.
    Loren
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    You may not be old enough to recall those days when domestic cars had a new look, or a whole new body more times than a pop star going into rehab. I mean to say, just look at the '65 Mustang compared to the '67, and the '69 to '70, then wow, holy Pony Car, it shrank back to a Pinto! Vast changes like those early to later Corvairs, all within a decade. You paid a price though on resale. I take it they now consider fewer changes as adding to resale value -- makes sense. VW holds the award for less changes, or is that the Porsche 911? Cavalier was in the running there for a long time. :P

    I do miss those old days when all the dealerships papered off the windows of the showroom, gathered the latest cars, like a new one called the Camaro, then all in the same night unveiled the cars in the showroom. What fun! How about walking in to the showroom in '68 say and seeing a Camaro and a Corvette along side a Malibu and a Corvair. All so cool looking. Now we get a car now and then, with hardly any fanfare. How about seeing the first Toronado, or boat-tail Riviera, or Pontiac GTO? Then walk across the street to find the new Challenger, or Shelby, or Eldorado.

    Now you walk on a lot and they jump on you and you must let them know when you intend to buy, or else! Then those dreaded words roll from my lips, " just looking" !
    Loren
  • basiliskstbasiliskst Member Posts: 55
    There is room for someone do do a small car that delivers great mileage and handling with all of the luxury features we Americans have come to expect from our SUVs and large sedans. Americans will pay for excellence. The European Ford Focus could have been that premium small car, but Ford left the door open for Saturn to take with the Astra (both this one and the next). BMW and Mini have the premium sporty end of the small car market. There is a premium luxury end to be defined and captured. You could do a small and worth more than a family midsize.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    New Volvo hatch is on the way too!
  • smalltownsmalltown Member Posts: 75
    Those of us who are babyboomers with kids out of the house and are downsizing would gladly consider small cars that are not econoboxes. At the same time, I am not looking for Bluetooth or power and heated leather seats. I ended up with a Kia Spectra5 a couple of years ago because Buick, Cadillac, Lincoln, etc. don't make small cars. Plus what I want is utility, meaning a hatchback or wagon.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    THIS VOLVO or for less money, I would think, the Astra at your local Saturn dealership (not sure how soon) may be your next car. Classy looking little hatch cars. Will be marketed to the young and young at heart. Fun, yet practical - good gas mileage, yet sporty.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Cavalier: 1982, reskinned in 1995, continued into early part of 2005 model year.

    Cavalier got a facelift for 1988, a reskin for 1995, and another facelift for 2003.

    Lumina: 1990, 95.

    Lumina started in 1988.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Redoing a vehicle as GM did it in the 80's and 90's was very expensive. They often redid the entire vehicle with few carryover parts/components. The old GM10's (midsize) were completely different than the old A cars (FWD). And then the current W cars were all new again. New suspension types, etc. So the revisions were a bit longer than the competition. With the current method of using global architectures it is awful expensive to retool up an enter architecture and then also revise the plants. As the imports do (japanese, not sure what Europe does) they are making gradual improvements to the current architectures. This allows quicker refreshes due to less engineering work and less investment.

    The Cobalt, I believe for 2009, based on the korean architecture.

    The Epsilon midsizes are revised for 2009 or so as Eps II.

    W's will be gone

    Sigmas revised

    Holdens large/midsize RWD revised soon and a new smaller architecture based on it coming out.

    New large trucks are based on the old architecture.

    Now the Lamdas are all new. Are the new midsize crossovers all new? (VUE)
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    When the G6 came out most of the press liked the styling. The worst criticism I saw was someone calling it a little bland but that was an exception. I have no idea how you (a Honda fan) can say the G6 looked dated from day one. I think that just goes to show you dont like anything GM makes. Give me a break.

    I dont know where you live (CA probably) but I assure you the G6 is selling and I see them all the time. I have seen hundreds on the road and probably see 3-5 a day. I have seen all three models, but the GTP is pretty rare as is the convertible obviously. I understand that a lot of posters are from the west coast where domestic cars are only found at airports but that isnt necessarily representative of the country as a whole.

    Just trying to be helpful.
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    it is not easy or necessarily profitable to bring over non luxury cars from Europe.

    You have to remember that one reason GM/Ford small and midsize cars are better in Europe is that they cost more and compete with higher end products. In the US no one considers a GM model (except Caddy) or Ford model to be competition for lower end BMWs or MBs but that isnt the case in Europe. Over there gas is high and people like premium compacts and midsize cars. Over there high speed cruising and smooth roads are the norm and their cars are designed for those conditions. GM could very well build Cobalts with navigation, big wheels (OK they have that here), 250hp engines, sport seats, HIDS, etc., but such cars would be $25k or more and none would sell. What people really want is for GM/Ford to offer the goodies of Euro models but charge the same old US prices and that aint happening. Making those cars here would not solve the problem at all, more content and performance will cost you more money.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    I was disappointed in the styling but there's nothing wrong with it. I was hoping for a departure from the every Pontiac looks like a Pontiac. Heck you could line it up with the 67 Tempest I learned to drive on.

    I guess my real reason for not liking it is the fact that I never liked the classic Pontiac styling to begin with. And yet, somehow, I don't mind that you can identify a Buick from a mile away. There's a certain elegance to it. I can understand how soem would feel abou Buick like I do about Pontiac. "Hey, look at that old guy car!" Well, I can order of the senior menu at IHOP (you have to be 55 for that) but haven't reached geezer age yet (I haven't seen that defined anywhere yet).

    Right now a Buick with a tight suspension and an attitude hiding behind that conservative exterior could work.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    The focus is being significantly upgraded for 2008. Really only the powertrain isnt being updated.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I like the G6, it's just that Pontiac has never really been my brand. My criticism of the G6 is that that back wheels seem a little too set back to the rear bumper. The coupe is really nice.

    Now, those '60s Pontiacs! Good God! They were works of art! What do you do for an encore? When you stepped into a 1960s Pontiac, you KNOW you clearly were a step up from a Chevrolet.
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    I totally diagree. The Mini is a niche player and its sales are nothing compared to Corolla, Civic or even Cobalt. Lets not act like the top selling small cars cost over $20k. Most people wont even shell out $20k for a civic and that is one of the most respected small cars out there. The 3 is doing well FOR A MAZDA but its sales are nothing compared to the cheaper civic and corolla. A focus in the US priced between $17k-$25k would get great reviews and be a sales flop, its that simple. The enthusiast press, not the public, is asking for a $25k Euro focus. This is the primary reason why people who write for car magazines are writers and not auto execs. These are the same people who wanted GM to build the Chevy SSR which turned out to be a terrible idea.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,655
    Lumina started in 1988.

    No, it was 1990 for the Lumina. GM's other W-bodies: the Grand Prix, Regal, and Cutlass Supreme coupe, came out as 1988 models. The Lumina was held back until 1990 though, and launched at the same time as the 4-door Cutlass, Grand Prix, and Regal.

    Chevy and Pontiac dumped their A-cars (Celebrity, 6000) almost immediately, allowing the W's to replace them, but curiously, Buick and Olds held onto their Century/Ciera. Probably because they were still strong sellers, and cash cows by that time, since the tooling and fixed costs had long since been amortized.

    As for the Cavalier, my understanding is that the 1995 re-skin was actually pretty substantial. I think one major change was going from a live rear suspension to an independent rear suspension.

    Oh, another long-lived GM model was the N-body. It debuted in 1985 as the Grand Am/Calais/Somerset Regal, and was heavily based on the J-body (Cavalier), although it was a pretty substantial re-work. Chevy got their version (Corsica/Beretta) in 1987. It was heavily reworked in 1997 to become the Malibu, and then in 1999 the Grand Am/Alero adopted this platform.

    I think the '97-03 Malibu and '99+ Grand Am/Alero were designated something other than "N" body though. And IIRC, the Beretta/Corsica actually had a separate designation.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    Oh, I'm old enough (about your age), so I recall those days fondly!
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,655
    That list looks like it just about covers it!

    Impala/Caprice: 1971, 77, 91 to 96. Revived 2000, redesigned 2006. Looking back, the difference today might not seem that substantial, but GM's B- and C-bodies went through a restyle in 1980 that, on average, jetissoned about 150-200 pounds of weight. In the case of the Chevy though, I wonder if a good deal of that was because they switched from a 250 inline six mated to a THM350 tranny, to a lighter 229 V-6 mated to a THM200C tranny? By 1980, I think the base weight of a V-6 Impala was around 3380 pounds! The re-skinning also resulted in a more sloping hood and a slightly higher rear deck, and smoother lines overall that supposedly improved aerodynamics by about 15%.

    I think if the recession had carried on much longer, the Impala/Caprice would have ended up being axed for 1982, and the Malibu would have been given more formal, expensive-looking styling and rebadged as Caprice. Pontiac actually did a move like this, dumping the big Catalina/Bonneville after 1981, and restyling the LeMans and renaming it Bonneville.

    I have an old Car & Driver from early 1982 that did a road test of a Caprice, and they mentioned that right around that time, big cars were starting to make a comeback (interesting; I didn't think that happened until 1983). Supposedly the Caprices were flying off the lot at close to sticker price, while the much more modern Celebrities needed hefty rebates to get moved. The article also mentioned that Chevy was thinking about dropping the B-body Caprice for '82, but judging from Pontiac's situation at the time, it's probably a good thing they didn't.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    I have no use for a Suburban but a lot of people do. In my estimation they can't be beat for what they do.

    Had one for many years and it served well for many true SUV "utility" functions. Mine had a 35 gallon gas tank. I would not want to do a $120+ fillup on it today.

    Don't think much difference in vehicle weight or initial cost between Tahoe vs Suburban and Suburban much more practical. But, the marketplace apparently buys more Tahoes than Suburbans.

    Maybe the "Suburban" name is the longest running continuous model that GM has.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,655
    Don't think much difference in vehicle weight or initial cost between Tahoe vs Suburban and Suburban much more practical. But, the marketplace apparently buys more Tahoes than Suburbans.

    Maybe a lot of people just don't want the extra bulk of a Suburban. I don't know the specs of the current models, but the previous Suburban was about 218" long, whereas the Tahoe/Yukon was around 196-199". In car terms, that's kinda like me ditching my '79 New Yorker (221") for my Intrepid (203")!
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    Maybe a lot of people just don't want the extra bulk of a Suburban.

    I would agree with that. If you rarely haul long stuff or 4x8's, and don't have a lot of kids, then Tahoe is fine.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Heck you could line it up with the 67 Tempest I learned to drive on.

    Come on. You are really stretching it here. The only similarity is the arrow. And to me that is one sharp car I would love to add to my stable (convertible of course).

    G6 is a sharp car. It has a swoopy/snarky/sporty look to it that the camry/accord do not have. About the only thing close in the mid market is the mazda6.

    http://www.dealsonwheels.com/search/detail.aspx?id=000790-200606-000015
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    And IIRC, the Beretta/Corsica actually had a separate designation.

    L car but basically the same platform.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    About $3000 and 350#.

    For that you get the extra rear seat and a bunch of sheet metal. Most everyone does not need the extra space capacity and do not want the extra length due to garage and parking. The sub is a beast to park and the Tahoe is a lot easier.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,655
    I guess my real reason for not liking it is the fact that I never liked the classic Pontiac styling to begin with. And yet, somehow, I don't mind that you can identify a Buick from a mile away. There's a certain elegance to it.

    I really don't see much classic Pontiac style in any of the current lineup. IMO, most of what Pontiac has out there today looks like it was decended from the 1992 Grand Am, with the slanty headlights and under-sized split grille with the honeycomb pattern.

    The G6 really doesn't do much for me, but at the same time, I don't despise it. Something about its style though, makes it look smaller than it really is. IIRC, wheelbase is something like 112", and overall length is about 190"? Not exactly tiny. But for some reason, when I see them on the road, they just seem diminutive. The Aura has a much more substantial presence about it.

    For some odd reason though, I kinda like the G5. I think it's a nicer looking car than the Cobalt. But then, I always liked the Astre better than the Vega. :P
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    But for some reason, when I see them on the road, they just seem diminutive. The Aura has a much more substantial presence about it.

    higher window sills on the Aura.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    It's what they do with the grill - that split thing that works better on most BMWs. That's all I meant.

    The G6 convertible really could appeal to me. Suddenly hardtop convertibles are becoming a big item. This is a trend I like!

    I would echo lemko's comments on Pontiac almost word for word.

    I would think Suburban would be as old a nameplate as is still around. My dad had a 49 Suburban for deliveries for his grocery store when I was a kid.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Are the new midsize crossovers all new? (VUE)

    I think the Antara/Vue is a new GMDAT design.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,655
    probably is the longest running continuous nameplate at this point. Well, except for 1943-45...

    Actually, I dunno. How long has Safeway used "Lucerne"? :shades:

    Otherwise, I'd guess "Grand Prix" is probably the next runner-up, dating back to 1962. "Impala" dates back to 1958, but was out of the loop from 1986-93 and 1997-99.

    When did Toyota first start using the "Corolla" nameplate?
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    "IMO, most of what Pontiac has out there today looks like it was decended from the 1992 Grand Am, with the slanty headlights and under-sized split grille with the honeycomb pattern."

    Yeah, that was what I was getting at. That split grill thing goes way back. To me it emphasizes the nose too much.

    Like you, it's not like I hate the design - just not my cup of tea.

    Like lemko said, in earlier days you were really aware when you saw a Pontiac that this was a step up.

    I'm with you on the G5 as well.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    I have seen hundreds on the road and probably see 3-5 a day.

    Do you live at a Pontiac dealership? There is one old guy around here who has a G6 convertible, and I see an occasional G6 sedan every so often. I see five of the final-gen Bonnevilles for every G6.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    G6 is a sharp car. It has a swoopy/snarky/sporty look to it that the camry/accord do not have.

    The main thing I don't like about the G6 is its giant butt. The Malibu doesn't have that, but the G6's low front end and super-high back end make the sedan look like a door stop and the coupe look super awkward. I didn't like that high butt on the gen-2 Neon or the Echo, either.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,655
    There is one old guy around here who has a G6 convertible, and I see an occasional G6 sedan every so often. I see five of the final-gen Bonnevilles for every G6.

    I see tons of G6es myself, but there is an Enterprise lot just down the street. :shades: Just kidding. Actually, I don't see them that often. I'd say the Pontiac I see most often these days is probably the current Grand Prix. With the '67 Catalina and '76 LeMans being a close runner up. :P
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Lots of G6's here but the big news is the Lamdas. They are everywhere in all forms. Even a few Enclaves. But around here it is a family area and the Suburbans and Minivans are also all over. so, it does look like they are turning in the minivans and SUV's for the lamdas.
  • jkr2106jkr2106 Member Posts: 248
    The main thing I don't like about the G6 is its giant butt. The Malibu doesn't have that,...

    I've always felt that the Cobalt and G6 look very much alike and instead of keeping that Malibu design, Chevy should have gotten the G6. But then again I don't agree with a FWD Pontiac.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    GM could very well build Cobalts with navigation, big wheels (OK they have that here), 250hp engines, sport seats, HIDS, etc., but such cars would be $25k or more and none would sell.

    Someone did, at least most of it. It's called the Mazda3, and Mazda can't make enough of them to meet demand.

    What people really want is for GM/Ford to offer the goodies of Euro models but charge the same old US prices and that aint happening.

    Possibly true for some, and you're right, that in particular ain't gonna happen. But I think Mazda and some others have proven that people are willing to pay a premium for premium features in a compact vehicle. Now that GM has the Aveo to slot in below, for bargain-basement shoppers, it's certainly an option to content-up the Cobalt and increase the price. Small car interest has gone way up when gas prices did the same. How well has the CTS sold? Not exactly a large vehicle there. I'm thinking sales of the Astra will show what I'm talking about if they keep most of the features intact.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    The focus is being significantly upgraded for 2008. Really only the powertrain isnt being updated.

    Really it's a reskin...the chassis isn't being updated, ESC is being deleted, along with the hatch and wagon versions.
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    No, I dont live at a Pontiac dealership but I do live in a state that isnt CA so I see far more domestic cars than many of the regulars here. The G6 sells around 10-12k units a month so its not a rare car by any stretch.

    Do you ever see fusions? Sonatas? Both are in the same sales league as the G6 (slightly higher, but close) and I see both of them pretty often.
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    In your mind anything that isnt a top to bottom redesign is a "reskin". That is not accurate at all. A reskin is what Honda did with the 2006 Accord. It what BMW did with the 2008 5 series, just minor cosmetic changes. Under your definition the 2008 Malibu is just a reskin because its not on a new chassis.

    The Focus is about as new as a car can get without changing platforms. All new interior and exterior plus a new body style is not a reskin. The 2008 STS, that my friend is a reskin. Same applies to the 2006 Vue when they changed the front end and upgraded the interior.
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