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Comments
Renault and Nissan have considered launching Infiniti in Europe and elsewhere but have always pulled back.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/2005/10/20/nissan-news-infiniti-for-europe-possible-- hq-move-more/
The Cadillac name is very well known. It's probably easier to build cars for new markets under the Cadillac name that try to introduce an unknown brand name and new cars.
China will be a key market in 4 or 5 years time the way sales are growing.
GM gives Nissan and Renault instant access.
I'm not sure if it does. China imposes import constraints (ironic, I know), and many of the GM products sold in China are built in China as part of a joint venture with a Chinese company.
If anything, I would expect GM to focus on building more units in China with the eventual goal of exporting them, not to import more cars built in Europe or the US to China.
Which leaves me further confused as to what Nissan or Renault expect to get from this. This strikes me as a good thing for Kerkorian and GM, but not necessarily all that great for Renault or Nissan.
Toyota's sales leaped 14.4 per cent in June, juiced by record sales of passenger cars such as Corollas. General Motors Corp.'s sales skidded 25.9 per cent in the same month — after discounts sent sales soaring last year — while DaimlerChrysler AG tumbled 13 per cent. Ford Motor Co.'s sales fell 6.9 per cent.
True, GM had their best sales ever in 2005 so they are about where they should be.
Really have to wonder about this;
Honda Motor Co. Ltd.'s sales were flat in June while Nissan Motor Co. stumbled 19 per cent.i>
Maybe a partnership with Nissan isn't such a great idea. Although their cars are attractive and basically are well engineered, IMO people are really being cautious and they want top value meaning best dependability and most economical trasnsportation possible.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Renault has a lot to gain with US market access. The Alliance did not do very will in the 1980's and a "sponsor" might allow them a baby step approach back to the US market.
GM would only gain the simple-minded belief that they did not lose #1 market share status.
Nissan. I have no idea.
Although I like the styling of the Ford Fusion very much and would consider it if I was in that market, what's up with those taillights. Looks like someone stuck some duct tape all around the edges.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I really don't see this. Kerkorian owns too much of the company to simply dump his shares, it's not as if he has 1,000 shares and a E-trade account. If Kerkorian tried to sell off large blocks of stock, the value would probably plummet as the market reacts to his actions. (If he wants to offload the stock, he must know something that we don't...)
Renault has a lot to gain with US market access.
They may very well believe that -- you do hear occasional murmurs from the French and Italians about reentering the US market -- but then why not just do it via Nissan?
I'm left with guessing that this may be ultimately be about platform sharing. And more often than not, these "synergy"-oriented plans create more harm than good for the acquiring company. GM has not had much luck with these, so it would be ironic if GM ended up creating the same problems for others that other companies have created for it.
You're saying that the Lucerne compares to larger cars, such as the Avalon. Which Lexus would you compare it to?
Based upon these "correct matchups", the Lucerne does not compare favorably to the Avalon or any Lexus. Furthermore, the LaCrosse(smaller) compares unfavorably to the Accord/Camry.
My statement about why the so-called "lemmings" buy HonYota instead of Buick still stands. Most buyers ARE rational...
This point has been raised before on this forum, Domestics need two additional cylinders to compete with the Asians counterparts, making their car thirstier and heavier. You can't blame the reviewers for GM inability to produce a V6 that performs as well as competition's
Another thing that isn't fair about this is that the dealer knows once you have the car and have shown it to everyone - you will pay almost anything to keep it and avoid embarassment. I would fight hard not to give it to in to these horse thieves....check the paperwork, take to a newspaper with a consumer watch program, check GM head office.
There should be better consumer laws where you are, this is totally unfair.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Now that the 3.8 seems to be getting long in the tooth, I wonder if the Lucerne would be better served with a 3.5 or the 3.9? The 3.9 seems to be a bit of a guzzler, though.
And indeed most cars aren't. The Lucerne has a large feel when you're in it-just like our leSabres. The 3800 serves the lower end (leSabre replacement for me) of the market well. It's the upper and middle that Lucerne covers with the two other models. That gives it a schizophrenic image to some of the doomsayers.
Replacing the 3800 with something as easy on gas with real torque ratings in the useable driving range bothers me. It doesn't sound like the other motors do as well on highway gas usage.
It's styling is great. GM has managed a good job. Of course a few always want something special to compare to their own favorite car, and then no car ever can really achieve that superior goal so all other cars are effete competitors. My usual dealer can't keep any in stock. A city dealer has several. I need to pretend to be car buying and start test driving.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Lucerne Review
To quote a bit;
More than that, the Lucerne’s lack of soul proves that Buick is a dead marque dying. One could argue that Electra Waggoner Biggs’ sculpture and the car named after her were tacky– nothing more than American populism with a continental twist. But their unabashed spirit demanded your attention. If the Lucerne is as good as a Buick gets, it’s only a matter of time before the entire brand follows its Swiss namesake into historical irrelevance.
If you take a few minutes to read this review you will see what is wrong with GM and in particular the Lucerne. This car is like a snow job, trying to make an impressive car by covering up old technology...and it misses in so many ways.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Like Andre, I kind of like the Lucerne. It's got style (I'm a pushover for a fastback roofline), and I think that since it's based on the uglier (to my eye) and much more expensive Cadillac DTS, it's quite a bargain.
Not that I'd actually buy one, but just saying it's a very decent effort from the General.
You are right about not giving them any more business. On something like this they should simply eat whatever they lost and be done with it.But then that would be expecting a dealer to actually refrain from trying to screw someone and frankly that just ain't in their defective genetic make up. :mad:
That's another fair option. If your goal is to just turn the car back in, check on the implications of doing that. (You don't want it to show up as a repossession.)
And I wouldn't go to the lot unless you make absolutely sure that they have your trade-in ready to go, so that you can leave the dealership right away. My guess is that they will claim that it has already been sold, or that they can't find it, or some other nonsense. I realize that you live a bit far away, but I'd be tempted to drive up in a different car, so that they can't hold your new purchase hostage while pretending that your trade-in is nowhere to be found.
Oh, you said Kerkorian...
Still doesn't sound right. If they cannot get the terms promised the contract is null and void?????
But they have agreed to give you possession of the car and that must count for something towards the deal being completed.
I am in agreement about not driving up in this car until you know you have your old car back and that all the paperwork has been cleared up...that is a receipt and that the whole deal is off.
You can't trust this dealership at all. By the way, if you don't mind answering, did you think you would have a problem with financing? Doesn't it sound more like you own the car but they didn't read the terms from GM correctly and so they are the ones who will be out the money.
Any lawyers out there (of course we'll never find a lawyer who will offer a free opinion - that's against the code of ethics).
What a disaster...you should sue them for ruining your holiday!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
If it was, deadbeat clients (and lawyers without business sense) would be a thing of the past.
Any advice for post #6841 ericarosalie ?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I'm not sure if it does. China imposes import constraints (ironic, I know), and many of the GM products sold in China are built in China as part of a joint venture with a Chinese company.
Nissan does not need help, Nissan's are already quite widespread in China, especially the Tiida's, Teana's, and Bluebird's.
That's your ace in the hole. 90% of dealerships won't want to mess with actually cutting you a check and will back down. Your old car will mysteriously be found - because they are in real trouble if they pull the scam and sell the car first, since the law requires them to hand over your old car back to you(ie - they almost always keep it in the back until the ink is dry on the second contract).
But that's just me. I personally like messing with scammers when I can.
A few notes:
The first one is that you can get a copy of your credit union's activity easily. It will show you the date of their inquiry, so it's clear whether they checked your credit before or afterwards. This is why I put the date and time and sign, and make the other party date and sign as well. It's good to do on all legal douments in case there is ever a question about timing. Credit checked at 11:50am. Contract Signed at 2pm.
This is also why you should go early in the morning. They can't play the "bank was closed" excuse on you either at 11am.
Lastly, if it was 0% factory-sponsored financing, they are in a bind. They ran your credit - you have proof. And it's through GMAC/Honda/etc directly. Explaining how you failed to qualify when GMAC clearly states what qualifies and/or can be called by your lawyer to verify it... Yeah - it might be worth fighting. As someone else suggested, ask for written proof of the denial from GMAC. If you sacrificed cash rebates to get the "0% finaicing", it should be very interesting to hear GM's response on it.
Lawyers are great this way - they tend to get results fast.
*for one thing, it probably means less of a reduction on the new car or a lower trade in - the manufacturer and dealer have to make money some how,
*scams, like big balloon payments at the end, huge interest for a missed payment,
*0% usually is on certain models that aren't selling anyway. You will get a gas guzzler or a model that people are not buying. Also, you could lose on depreciation...any money saved will be eaten up at trade in time.
One other idea is to see if there is a consumer advocate at a local newspaper or TV station. They might have some legal knowledge or would like to do a story to expose the scam.
I saw a 20/20 once where used car guys would put old wrecks together and sell them from a lot. One customer bought a car that they actually glued the door handles onto it. The salesman was laughing his head off that someone had bought the car!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Opposing viewpoint: Peter DeLorenzo (autoextremist) thinks the proposal is terrible for GM's future.
Go to the link and click on 'Rants' for his input.
http://www.autoextremist.com/index.shtml
If so, not really a big deal, since sales in Canada are only a tiny fraction of sales in the US. I think sales in Mexico of late have passed those in Canada; no wonder when you compare population.
GM and R/N are not good merger candidates. With the exception of trucks in NA, the companies have similar strengths and weaknesses. Both have fairly comprehensive lineups in the US. Nissan is just now introducing a sub-compact in North America. GM already has the Aveo. GM has the infrastructure in place now to bring the Corsa, should the lack of a high end sub-compact be an issue. Nissan is a mid-level player in Japan. GM is stonger than Nissan in the rest of Asia. In Europe, Opel and Renault have very similar line ups and market share. Both lack a solid luxury presence in Europe. Renault, Nissan and GM have similar line ups in South America and the rest of the developing world.
Ford, on the other hand, seems a near perfect match. Ford is much stronger in trucks than Nissan. Ford has a decent European and South America and developing world presence, but has been losing market share. Ford has a strong European luxury brand line up with much room to advance. Neither side is strong in Asia other than Japan. But opportunities to grow are there.
Kerkorian never would have bought into Ford because he never could have gotten more shares than the Ford family and Foundation. Too bad. This GM/Renault/Nissan thing is not going to happen. In the meantime, the time spent investigating means lost time from the merger that makes sense.
Could not imagine too many people considering a Mercedes S would cross shop a Lucerne. Would believe that they might consider Audi, BMW, Lexus but not a Buick. Not in year 2006 and probably not in any year in the 20th century.
Latest issue of CR tested some Large Sedans. The Caddy DTS and Lucerne were put in same category as Kia Amanti, Hyundai Azera, Ford 500, Dodge Charger, Mercury Grand Marquis, Lincoln Town Car, Chrysler 300 and Toyota Avalon.
Their rank order ratings were:
Toyota Avalon
Hyundai Azera
Ford 500 FWD
Cadillac DTS
Ford 500 AWD
Chrysler 300 V8
Chrysler 300 V6
Dodge Charger V8
Dodge Charger V6
Buick Lucerne V6
Kia Amanti
Lincoln Town Car
Mercury Grand Marquis
Sales in China are up 47% for the first half of this year. GM and ventures sold 453,832 cars in China in that time.
Sales in Canada for the first half of the year for GM are up 4.6%. Car sales up 15%, truck sales down 5.4% Chevrolet badged cars were up 25% led by Impala.
Toyota sales were higher than Chryslers and were up 13%. Sales of the new Camry were up by half and the Yaris had a 28% increase over the Echo it replaced. Lexus Luxury trucks are down 14.6% but Lexus cars are up 115%!
Ford car sales for June were up 15% led by the Fusion, and for the year car sales are up 20%. Overall sales at Ford are up 6%
Honda and Accura are up 9% on the year.
Chrysler is down 1% year to date.
Draw your own conclusions because I don't know what it all means?????? :confuse:
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
The future may hold a rebadged world...
Nissan seems to have crested and is headed back down the slope. Renault has limited scope. If this merger happens it might just be the most colossal failure among business mergers ever.
Lots of folks in the press seem to echo this sentiment that Ghosn is a great recovery guy but not much for guiding the boat down the river once it is floating again.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
For a $25,000 loan the payment are $587.13 for 48 months @6%; $520.83 @0%; @6%, total interest is about $3182 over the 4 years. So, unless the incentive is over $3,000, the 0% loan is better. For a 72 month loan, the interest totals more than $4800.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The first part referred to GM sales in China - and the rest talked about Canada.
The other sales are in Canada. Canada is only about 10% of the total U.S. market and the tendency is to buyer smaller cars. But it does give an indication of overall trends and there are usually similarities. The economy is pretty good here for a long time now so people seem to be buying Impalas. I was surprised to see Camry sales up by over 50% and Lexus up a lot. And the fact GM sales were up here (but are down in the U.S.) must mean something. Maybe the better economy means people are buying bigger heavier cars like GM's here. Not sure what it all means but if I was to guess, IMO only, maybe GM is being hit more by the economy than by their cars. Just a thought. Still :confuse:
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Getting GM floating is the name of the game now.
Ghosn will be busy at the wheel for a few years if indeed he can accomplish the task.
Right on!!!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Rocky
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=115997#4
Rocky
To the extent R/N has cash, GM could always use an influx. Otherwise, anything else R/N has to offer GM, GM could get itself. Even hybrids. GM has its new dual phase system it developed with Daimler and BMW. Both companies have diesel technology in foreign markets, assuming North America is really going diesel in any event. R/N does not have its own system yet. GM could just as well make micro Opels in Spring Hill or some other underutilized North American plant if the market is going that way. Increased access to Japan is really not that big of a deal.
On the other side of the coin, R/N does not get much of what it really needs. GM gives it trucks in North America and some boost in China. GM does not give it a luxury presence in Europe. GM on the other hand gives R/N massive redundancy in mid and large sedans in North America and compact and sub-compact sedans in Europe and the developing world.
Again, seems to me Ford is the best fit. Keep the Mustang and the Euro Focus and of course the trucks. Kill off all the other Ford cars. Get Ghosn to work bringing Volvo to the next level (its already come far) and making Jaguar profitable. Use the modern Ford plants in the US to make federal versions of sub-compacts. Keep as many otherwise redundant engineers as necessary to develop hybrids and product to better exploit China.
Rocky
:mad: Rocky :mad: