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They already have Volvo to be the soft luxury car flagship and have Land Rover to be the Luxury SUV. Aston Martin, needs to be the halo car for the entire brand line-up if they aren't going to sell it. Jaguar needs to be Cadillac, BMW, Mercedes, IMHO
Just my $0.02
-Rocky
And, to see a perfect example of FUD working it's magic, read Rockys' recent posts :>)
Who's the buyer of Aston ?
Rocky
Rocky
Suggestion - figure out your favorite car/SUV/CUV that's been out say 2 years. Find and buy a nice used one so you wont eat a ton of depreciation. Then drive it a couple of years til the emmkayvolvo or Buick Velite or whateve yoru REALLY want is released.
Pretty good advice, eh?
Rocky
I agree you gave good advice. I've actually have thought about doing that but with a car that's a little older than that even. I however do like the new 07' GMC Sierra Denali, enough to own. I might just buy one of those and drive it for a couple years and then trade it in or sell it if a Buick Velite, does come. My GM Employee discount would eat up most if any loss on a Sierra Denali that might occur if I swapped early.
Rocky
They already have Volvo to be the soft luxury car flagship and have Land Rover to be the Luxury SUV. Aston Martin, needs to be the halo car for the entire brand line-up if they aren't going to sell it. Jaguar needs to be Cadillac, BMW, Mercedes, IMHO
If you take Aston out, which it's always sort of been from a comparitive state - I think Land/Rover - Jaguar should be combined into one unit, and combined dealers. It needs to compete with Audi, MB and BMW on the British level, pip, pip. Lincoln should be re-invented to compete with Cadillac. Back to the past, I say! Tallyho! Natalie drives an Avalanche with FatNat on the plate anyway.....
Rocky
TOWN CAR: It can be big, and it can be stately, and it can be a bit ponderous, but it MUST become luxurious again. Big plush seats, tons of standard features, and a few options only, like Navigation or not, moonroof or not, perhaps 2 or 3 trim levels, but they have to be NICE inside, and a complete revamp of the aircraft carrier dash would really help.
LS: Should be retained, and redesigned probably on a modified Mustang platform, RWD a must and must remain a 5 series sized performance car. IF they must, they could re-name it MKLS.
MKZ: I guess it can stay, but I don't like it.
MKS: I think it's a mistake, places the car in Acura RL status - and that car doesn't sell well.
MKR: Get it out here, BEFORE you drop the Town Car. Call it a Town Car, dammit.
MKX: I pretty much hate it, and predict it'll flop.
NAVIGATOR: Make it stately and intimidating like it used to be. Please put electroluminescent guage clusters back in them!! All Lincolns should have them.
Bring back the Aviator.
Gotta love the Avalanche joke. I presume it is a joke? These people wouldnt really drive SUVs would they?
I think the entry level Lincoln should be on the Taurus/Sable platform instead of the Modified Mazda. In other words, I think the MKS should be the entry level model. It will be a V6 and on a longer wheelbase than an ES350 with more room inside.
The sport sedan model should be just like the MKR concept. Finally the Town Car should be just as you discribed and would be the flagship luxury Lincoln - big, stately, V8 powered.
Behind the scenes they are the same company and that is why Ford can't sell Jag without selling Land Rover.
Many Land Rover dealers are combined with Jag dealers as well.
I notice that was before your 2/18 post on the MKX forum, nvbanker. After sitting inside, would you still say you hate it and predict it'll flop?
I finally stopped by my LM dealer and sat in an MKX and agree with nvbanker's assessment of the interior. It seemed of good quality and functional design. I didn't find the dash too high. Unlike him, I kind of like the exterior, including the front end. It's all a matter of taste as far as that goes.
The salesman said they have an average on-lot time of less than a week for their MKXs and have sold 9 of them in the last month. Perhaps that portends well for where Ford is taking Lincoln. (Where those 9 sales are, though, I don't know. I haven't seen any but one on the road.)
Ford had refused such aide for Wixom, WCF hell-bent on killing the plant. Fortunately a great many people across the land wrote into Ford Motor protesting the end of the Town-Car and thus its fate was spared and moved to St. Thomas. And even-though a Canadain Railways Strike has temporarily halted production at that site, the future of the rwd platform is not dead. The money given now to Michigan plants is money that Ford can offset for Lincoln.
The Armsmen should gather forthwith in an appropriate skunk-works away from the prying eyes of the Glass House and hot rod the existing platform. Especially considering that if GM buys Chyrsler, the fate of Imperial is almost certain to be up in the air---as GM would not want a Cadillac competitor. So Lincoln has a unique chance to step in between the market and regain some of its lost position.
CAD/CAM 4/5 allows a narrow window for producing products from scratch to production within a very short amount of time: six months. W.H. Smith & Sons Ltd. is the finest moulded parts supplier to both Aston-Martin and Bentley, especially custom leather covered parts as door-panels and dash frames. Their designers as Marek Reichmann and Raul Pires able to rely on WHS to build prototype interior parts for examination in less than 30 days. Intier, for example, provides all the interior trim for Cadillac and works with their design staff to supply prototypes. The Aston Rapide prototype was built in six months on the existing DB9 platform.
Thus the tools exist that Lincoln, and the Armsmen can take a current TC platform, remake the interior and bring its level up three or four notches. Exterior sheetmetal could be changed to bring it up to date. But the important ingredient is the engine. The bay can accept anything that Ford makes. So Lincoln can build anything from diesels to high performance engines. That is what they need to do: drop a Mustang varient 300-50Bhp plus engine into the car. Beef up the brakes and springs/shocks, etc. and viola! A transformed Town Car. Anyone who drives it will be shocked.
They won't expect a Town Car to be FASTER than a Chrysler 300, but that is what MUST be done. No debates. Simply shock prospective buyers as to the ride/drive of the car. Nor should Lincoln wait for people to come to them, they must caravan a group of cars around the nation offering test drives---from the office or the home. People no longer fly with the same frequency, so the old rental game won't work, thus Lincoln must bring the product to the people. Lincoln has not the time to wait for buyers to come to the dealer. Lincoln can directly engage the customer, and then let the dealer do his job. While the new TC should out-perform the 300, it's interior should put Cadillac to shame.
Using the existing platform would save $500Mn. Mustang was revamped under Troutman for $750Mn, so Lincoln could use the same amount of money with TC. Roll the new car out to customers first and then announce it AFTER people start seeing it on the street. IN such fashion people will ask: "Hey that's a nice Lincoln, when did they start doing that?" Making the potential customer inquire about the product with no prompting.
Time frame: Starting Tomorrow, the first cars for customer inspection could see the light of day by December of this year, production starting March 1, 2008.
DouglasR
(Sources: Office of Governor Granholm, Michigan; BBC World News; W.H. Smith & Sons Ltd.U.K.; WSJ; FT)
The long wheelbase version of the Panther, as used in the Signature L, would be a good basis upon which to hang new sheetmetal (using some cues from the MKR). Get rid of the huge overhangs to keep the overall length down, and have an "ultimate" model with interior luxury second to none. The long wheelbase model has much better rear seat room than the shorter version. An updated TC on this platform would be welcomed by retail buyers and the livery folks would still have the ruggedness and simplicity that they like.
As for the engine, the upcoming Hurricane would be great but even the 5.4 with 3 valve heads could easily be tuned for 325-350 HP. They already have a 6 speed automatic for RWD applications that would handle the torque.
I have no reason to think that Lincoln would actually do this but it sounds like a decent idea to me. I would think it could be done faster than starting from scratch.
I do think part of the dislike of the exterior expressed here is based on some folks not liking the chunky CUV shape in general. It's a genre that is selling now, but I don't think it's a concept that is supposed to be pretty or sexy or sleek. nor is it brawny like the big SUVs. Maybe some day we will look back and wonder why people were so taken with such chunky-blocky, relatively overpriced and overweight 6 cylinder thing-ies.
I think you're right. I got a good look at a couple Mazda CUVs in traffic yesterday. Didn't like them one bit, front - back, side-side. Feel the same about the MB R-Class (I want to say RL?) - prefer the "lunch-box" G-Wagen. But saw a picture of the GMC Arcadia in Auto Week, and kind of liked the front-end treatment. Even though I wouldn't buy one I thought the front end was decent. I actually think the Pacifica, the Ford wagon (can't think of the name) and the like look better, maybe as they aren't chunky-swoopy like the CUVs.
And that isn't that hard to do! I drove an XLR today - was very unimpressed with the look or feel of the interior. Your Nissan Altima is as good looking and as good feeling as the $100,000 Cadillac was.
I agree with your instructions to Lincoln - hope someone is reading....
"If you owe $10,000, the bank owns you. If you owe $100 million, you own the bank."
* Yesterday tens of thousands of Ford employees were shown the door. "The engineering offices look like swiss cheese now with all the empty cubicles" said one remaining worker.
* Ford told employees that its North American turnaround plan already has veered off track. The company missed its internal retail sales goals for January, despite having set its sights low. The February numbers that are due out today are also expected to be grim.
* In response, today Ford announced they are giving another million dollars to Alan Mulally because he's done such a good job.
* Ford also announced lots of cash awards to other senior executives for the great job they did getting rid of so many other employees.
* Ford announced that it will pay for Mark Fields to commute between Detroit and Florida in first class accomodations. More employees to be fired soon to pay for those tickets I guess.
* Fields had announced he would eschew flying in corporate jets to his home in Florida, now we know why. In other news, Ford has announced that Alan Mulallys' family can fly corporate jets whenever they want whether Alan is travelling with them or not. Meantime, Ford announced that the UAW better be ready to make concessions this year.
* Ford announced they'll be selling a subcompact soon - it will be made in Brazil.
In related news, I've pretty much had it with American business in general and Ford in particular. Enough already with Detroit - they've been screwing me for 30 years. I've decided it's time to give the Japanese the opportunity to screw me now.
To obtain the high rank requires a high education of at least a Masters in some form of Engineering.
Those high ranking engineers know what they did to earn their positions and the factory workers know what they didn't do to be where they are.
We all make our own choices in life. Live with them.
Meanwhile 'beautiful hair Fields' has free first class accoms to/from Florida. And AMs family has free corporate jets to satisfy their whims. "Life's calling Mrs Mulally. Where to next?" That's not a choice in life, that's highway robbery.
Of course, I may just be sour because I'm not sharing in that corporate greed!
So how does a company in the red get a CEO that's capable of turning the company around if they don't get paid?
I understand what you meant and I agree there are way too many bad executives making big bucks and not delivering. However...
If you want to retain good executives (or those you think are good) then you must pay them whatever the market demands. If you don't, then they leave and go to another company that is willing to pay them. Just like free agency in sports. If you can't retain any of your executives then you can't possibly run the company effectively. Ultimately every non union job out there is worth whatever companies are willing to pay for that type of work. It may not be fair, but that's life.
* Announce you're tossing him ANOTHER $million dollars on the SAME day that tens of thousands of people who've worked for Ford for years and decades are cleaning out their desks and going home for the last time?
* Also announce lots of new cash for "executives" on that same red letter day?
* Announce FREE first class trips for a guy, MF, who has got to be a big part of the problem rather than the solution? What, the freaking guy cant live in Dearborn, he's too good for that? The company has to pay him first class tickets to fly back and forth to Florida a minimum of once a week?
* And the big smart AM cant use some of his $20 or so Millions to fly his wife to Tahiti? The company has to pay to fly his freaking family all over the world at their whim and with no regard for company business?
* And you're giving AM/MF all these perks because of what? A 12.7 BILLION dollar LOSS on their watch? Their own self-proclaimed FAILURE to meet even their LOW sales expectations?
Now these geniuses have empty engineering cubicles, fewer mfg plants and grim sales figures again for February are expected, but more millions are thrown at them? Is THIS how u turn a company around? Sorry, doesn't work for me.
Why don't we check, BTW, how much Toyota pays the guy that runs their company? WHat the delta is between his pay and the loser that puts the wheels on the Tundra in Texas or the Corrolla in Hiroshima? Who wans to bet those two salaries are orders of magnitude closer than Pedro the Fusion builders' salary is to the great Mark Fields (who's done WHAT? EXACTLY WHAT has he done?
Now, just now comes the announcement of Feb sales figures. The day after more millions were thrown at these geniuses, FOrd announces sales OFF 13.5% Yep, DOWN 13.5 percent. Even CHrysler, who did NOT bring in a genius to turn them around, was down only 8% GM figures not out yet.
I figure tomorrow, they'll give AM and MF each a yacht for their good work based on this new news. Good going guys.
I don't know if ARM has been around long enough to see any sales increases. They need product first. I may be wrong, but I think it was Fields and his good hair that re-started the Hurricane program. (It is just so completely insane that it was cancelled at all.) I think ARM has taken some of the product and financial decisions away from the board. Since he has been there, they have started issuing concepts again, and this time (as opposed to 2002), he means for them to follow up with product. He has put his support behind Lincoln and a rear drive platform. He has ordered them to stop the stupid practice of designing similar cars on different platforms in different parts of the world.
But all of that can't do a thing right now for the sales of the 07 Focus, the 07 500, the 07 Explorer, etc., or the unfortunate update of the Expedition. He is also saddled with the tepid 08 re-dos of the Super Duty (which should sell well regardless), and the 08 Focus, Escape and Taurus/Sable. And most of these unexciting products aren't even in showrooms yet.
So, yes, maybe you are right. This company should be toast and maybe already is. Maybe the fools called the shots for too long to save it now. But I am not going to put it on ARM. How would you increase sales of the 07 line-up? The best thing they can do is get the darn things out of the showroom as best they can, and push-push-push the Edge, Fusion, Mustang and F150 for all they are worth, and try to hang on until the Fairlane and MKS and rear drive sedans get here. I sure am not betting they can do it. But better ARM than Bill, even on the way out.
"How would you increase sales of the 07 line-up?"
Simple. Change the names to 'Toyota'. That oughtta do it.
So how does a company in the red get a CEO that's capable of turning the company around if they don't get paid?
Yes, that was a little extreme, of course.
Ultimately every non union job out there is worth whatever companies are willing to pay for that type of work. It may not be fair, but that's life.
No disagreements there. Life isn't fair.
I think my outburst was directed at America corporate culture in general, not Ford in particular. Hence, it was out of place here in a Ford forum and better suited to a socioeconomics/ethics forum!
Company was bankrupt and promised severance packages were denied. CEO goes into court, vowing to get the severances back; instead comes out with a 100% raise :confuse: , along with other perks, including those for family members.
Guess he needed cheese on his Whopper!