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Where Is Ford taking the Lincoln Motor Company?

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Comments

  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    Agree with your first paragraph, however, the focus of discussion is on the future of the Crown Victoria, Grand Marquis, and Town Car facet of FOMOCO.

    I'm all for the continued involvment of Ford overseas, selling their smaller vehicles to those who want a high quality product.

    As an investor, my vision foresees, Ford offering a new line of 6 passenger cars of the highest quality that will attract the N American family while continuing their successful 4 passenger units elsewhere.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Ford offering a new line of 6 passenger cars...

    You mean SUVs? No one makes 6-seat cars anymore.

    Also, I believe Ford sells more vehicles in Europe than in the United States.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    "America's most distinguished motorcar"? Jeebus. :sick:

    Who were they trying to sell to? J.P. Morgan?
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    "America's most distinguished motorcar"? Jeebus

    Remember, this was 40 years ago.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    of V8 powered cars for North America may seem like a good idea, they ought to try and improve the mpg so they are not gas guzzlers...and they do not have to have 350-400 Hp like the Hemi engines, but a solid 4.6L 280-300 HP will be MORE than adequate, unlike my CV 4.6L 239 HP which is fairly anemic...

    Also, Japanese brands seem to have the V6 with anywhere from 265-300 HP...why can't Ford do that and maybe get city mpg in the low 20s and highway mpg in the high 20s...I have known a few people who had V8 Town Cars that claimed 28 mpg highway...when you hear it from more than a few people, there may be some truth in it...

    Ford cannot survive with incremental changes, they must move faster and, yes, be bolder, as the market desire for Ford will continue to shrink...

    While the poster with the Aviator engine and Expy drivetrain is probably rare, you never seem to hear that from an import maker...

    I could go off on the union (SOMEBODY on the line must have known something was wrong), but this may not be the place...but, doesn't it make you wonder, if this could have been prevented by someone awake on the assembly line???
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I'll never own another Ford product. I'm confident they don't care.

    Never Gracie? Never is a long time. Even I, ardent GM hater for decades - now have an Escalade, primarily because Lincoln is so adrift.....

    I'm confident Neither GM nor Ford really care.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    When touring the beauty of Alaska seven years ago, we drove slowly in the construction and scenic zones and achieved 27+ miles per gallon in our 94 Town Car, but we never drove over 45 mph on that stretch either. Presently, we get 23+ mpg @ 70 mph while our 4.6 Thunderbird gets 26 @ 70. When the 66 Mustang GT gets 22, it's because there is a tailwind.
  • douglasrdouglasr Member Posts: 191
    Yes, it might have been 40 years ago...but remember Lincoln Motor lost $16Mn between 1926-1935 until the introduction of the Zephyr. Lincoln Division lost $60Mn on the 1958-60 Lincoln alone. It was left to Robert McNamara to approve the Engel design sharing cowl structure with the T-Bird and lengthen it into a sedan to save the brand, make Wixom profitable and more efficent...among other pluses.

    From 1961 onwards Lincoln made money for Ford. Something it now has to do, especially after the financial lumps in the Jaguar "Cat Box". Ford Motor can't continue to dole out billions to save a venture that clearly has missed almost all of its targets. Only the XK has really netted a plus, even though the XJ is quite a car---no one can tell it is brand new. So any "New" Lincoln has to make a statement, and the public has to see that in an instant. Many more people with the means to buy acceprted the radically different 1961 Lincoln Continental sedan than those accustomed to chrome acreage. Najjar's radically different thunderously large Lincoln died a terrible death, but Robert S. McNamara's tennure left a decades long lasting impression.

    That's what the Field's, the Horbury's and Mr. Mulally must do with Lincoln. Except in 1958 when those decisions were being made, the then Ford Group President threatened to "cancel" Lincoln if they didn't muster a new design worth building. Jaguar is done at Ford. All that remains is to scoop the box out.

    But Wixom's closure leaves the path clear to rebuild the plant, and modernise it for a new model, and line of cars. And the team in place now has the greatest challenge within the Lincoln history: make the brand mean something again as it did forty years ago. Mr. Engel and Mr. McNamara didn't know it then, but they created a lot of buyers for Mercedes and BMW a decade later when Lincoln went back to a perimeter frame large dimension car in 1970. People who had owned sixties Lincolns often traded them in for their first Benz or Bimmer.

    Ford can't afford that now...they have to attract that core buyer and make them think Lincoln is a proper choice for them.

    Tough act to follow. Just then, Lincoln might become "distinguished" in an entirely new way.

    DouglasR
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,499
    ". . .any "New" Lincoln has to make a statement. . ."

    You bet.

    Pretty much like the LS did back in '99. Care to review how that turned out? I don't have the stomach for it, though it sounds like you might.

    Lincoln has got to do something much more impressive than the Zephyr and the alphabet-soup that followed it to make any impression at all, let alone a good one, much less a great one.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Lincoln's problem right now is a lack of suitable platforms and engines. Chrysler got lucky and used a leftover E class chassis for the 300. The best Lincoln can do right now is tread water and make incremental improvements until the new platforms and drivetrains are ready. This won't happen overnight but the MKR concept tells me there is hope - they just need some time and money.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Both of which, are in short supply. ARM wants to do it - if he can buy the time before the cookie jar runs out - they may have quite a comeback. The desire is there, at least. Of course, Bill Ford didn't die, he just retired to the "Chairman" job, which means he could still put the rat poisen in Lincoln if he wanted to. WE'll hope he doesn't.
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    Of course, Bill Ford didn't die, he just retired to the "Chairman" job,....

    Hopefully he'll realize he didn't do FoMoCo any favors when he ran it and will stay out of the way.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    Bill Ford walks among us and he votes! ;)
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    Saw this story on Refdesk:

    Ford To Sell Volvo

    Volvo actually made money for Ford. Ford is relying so heavily on Volvo for auto platforms. With Volvo gone, what is Ford going to do for the Taurus and upcoming MKS?
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    With Volvo gone, what is Ford going to do for the Taurus and upcoming MKS?

    Nothing - Ford already owns the D3 platform. It was only based on the Volvo platform, not outsourced.

    The next generation platform for Ford will apparently be a joint project with Ford of Australia and will share the platform with the next Falcon. This RWD/AWD platform will be all new and will replace the Mustang, Crown Vic/Grand Marquis and Town Car plus many others. Unfortunately it won't be here until the 2011 calendar year. The D3 will survive until then.
  • jeyhoejeyhoe Member Posts: 490
    It's comforting to know that the Ford Motor Company has engineering talent in Australia to fall back on when it loses it's engineering talent in Sweden. Though the one car they imported from there (Mercury Capri in what early 90s?) was not a very good ambassador for Aussie design and quality.

    Too bad they dont have any engineering talent here in the US.

    Oh well, they could always buld the PANTHER forever. Though those are made in Canada now.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Too bad they dont have any engineering talent here in the US.

    Does the word F150 mean anything? Expedition? Mustang? The engineers are here but they have their hands full with other vehicles. The Aussies have been doing RWD for decades. Why not take advantage of that? The cars will still be designed and tuned here, just like the new Taurus even though the basic platform was engineered elsewhere.

    If Ford added engineers to do this here then they would have 2 groups of engineers working on exactly the same type of platform and that simply doesn't make sense.
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    Though the one car they imported from there (Mercury Capri in what early 90s?) was not a very good ambassador for Aussie design and quality.

    But the Aussie Fords I saw a couple of years ago were pretty sweet. I remember thinking "this is a Ford?" I certainly wouldn't mind driving one, except for the right hand drive.
  • jeyhoejeyhoe Member Posts: 490
    F150 == Expedition

    Mustang is a one-trick pony. Mustang IS RWD. Why not use it instead of Aussie platform? Not long ago, this was the plan for a new Lincoln.

    And dont even YOU feel it's pathetic that considering FLMs' entire lineup that all we have is F150 and Mustang as "American" vehicles?
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I could have mentioned Focus, Explorer, Ranger and Escape, too. And if you think F150 = Expedition you don't really understand what's involved.

    They should have done the jointly developed Aussie platform when they did the 05 mustang, but Ford wasn't thinking that way back then (before Mullaly). What they ended up with obviously isn't suitable for large sedans. The new Aussie platform will also be used for the new Mustang and probably a new unibody Explorer in addition to large RWD sedans.

    I think it would be pathetic for a global company like Ford to not use existing global resources where it makes business sense. There is a ton of engineering that has to be done on a platform to turn it into a final vehicle. It's not like they're importing anything except the basic chassis.
  • jae5jae5 Member Posts: 1,206
    This RWD/AWD platform will be all new and will replace the Mustang, Crown Vic/Grand Marquis and Town Car plus many others.

    akirby,

    Is this platform that flexible that you can make the pony car(s) (Mustang, dare I say Cougar ;) ) as one size and then on to the full-sizers CV/GM/TC? If it is that would be one heck of a platform. And if this is the case, Ford is definitely kissing the BOF good-bye (at least in the traditional thinking)?

    Please don't tell me the Mustang is going repeat itself and grow into a behemoth like the first go-round :surprise:
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Yes, it can be that flexible if you start with that goal in mind. The Mazda6 platform was stretched and widened for the Fusion by several inches. It may not be used for the mustang though - that's sheer speculation since it's the only other RWD car at the moment.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    I could have mentioned Focus, Explorer, Ranger and Escape, too. And if you think F150 = Expedition you don't really understand what's involved.


    The Focus is still on the first gen platform that was designed in Europe originally. That is teh C170 Platform.

    The Escape is also on an ancient platform that can trace its roots back to the First generation Mondeo/Contour platform.

    The Ranger is all domestic Ford designed but it is even more ancient then the other platforms. I think the only platform older then the Ranger's is the Panther platform.
  • jae5jae5 Member Posts: 1,206
    I guess so, but to have one platform for a small vehicle to go all the way up to a full-sizer is a stretch. I can see having a platform for a mid-sizer than can be stretched to a small full-sizer, then nipped-tucked for a small mid-sizer that's done all the time. But I would think they would have one platform for Mustang-sizers and another for full-sizers.

    Another question is will the current CV/GM/TC be the last of the BOFs?
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Another question is will the current CV/GM/TC be the last of the BOFs?

    That seems to be an absolute given at this point. Nobody is making BOF cars anymore, are they?
  • douglasrdouglasr Member Posts: 191
    Imperial is dead. Announced only two hours ago...fuel prices and the impending 35mpg CAFE standard the dragon slayer of the top-line Imperial-to-be.

    The door now wide open for Lincoln. Imperial would have towed away 25,000 buyers from Lincoln without much guessing---each year. 100,000 sales of Imperial will now never happen, and that brings a stellar opportunity for Lincoln.

    Yes, the sale of Volvo will, perhaps, impede further development of the Mark S. But it is well enough along towards launch. The next version in 2012 just won't share any parts with Volvo, because Volvo will be owned by Renault or BMW. Jaguar will likewise perhaps be part of Cerberus Capital Managment, and Chrysler, but it is wide speculation to think of just where Jaguar will land, once its gets out of the Ford Motor Cat Box.

    PAG will be dismantled and but a remnant in the Ford Business history, like the Mercury-Edsel-Lincoln Division before it. From the ashed of that came the 1961 Lincoln Continental, and a great car and consequent history.

    Mr. Fields is no Robert McNamara, but with Jaguar and Volvo out of the way, and a serious competitor all but vanquished from the field before it even engaged battle, Lincoln now has a chance, just as it did in November 1960, to set a new stage, and a new pace.

    Without, of course, forgetting what got it there in the first place.

    If ever the boys at the Glass House wanted to make their marque, they must do it now with Lincoln. Apart from the fact that the clock is ticking at Ford, people will least expect a dazzling Lincoln or Continental, which is precisely why they must do it. A skunk works team to take the brand beyond the S, R, etc.

    "Lincoln inspires...the loyalty of those who know it best..." the famous ad once ran. Now is the time to inspire some loyalty to Lincoln.

    Now that Imperial is gone, (A sad fate indeed, caving into the forces of anti-individualism in the marketplace), Lincoln can have a far range of the market all to itself. It's open season now. Fair game against any target.

    DouglasR

    (Sources: Automotive News, Chrysler LLC)
  • jeyhoejeyhoe Member Posts: 490
    Yeah, I saw a story on the Det News online this evening about this. Right above it is another story "Lexus to build more hybrids". I think these 2 stories say it all. The forward-looking company invests more in hybrid technology, making arguably the finest luxury cars in the world greener and easier on gas. The other guys just bail out. No No No, we cant build a big luxury car now. The big bad government is being mean to us. Am I wrong or is Lexus subject to the same CAFE rules as DCX or whatever they're called this week?

    So Chrysler cant build ONE luxury car because of CAFE, vs Lexus who makes nothing but luxury cars is gonna make more. I just dont get it.

    All that said, IMHO, the Imperial was butt-ugly anyway.

    As for Lincoln, somehow I doubt that Ford's position will be closer to Lexus than it is to Chrysler. The stuff Ford is building and has in the pipe is doing it no favors where CAFE is concerned. They still sell and build a lot of big trucks and SUVs that get poor mileage. The Edge and X are just barely better mpg-wise than the Explorers etc that they'll eventually replace. The government, in it's infinite wisdom, will force Ford to build smaller, lighter, better mpg cars just so they can still sell the MKS, never mind a real luxury car. Twin-Turbo is supposed to be Lincoln's answer to the gas mileage/performance issue from what I read. Performance of an 8, gas mileage of a 6. It's a start I guess, but can it persist in the age of runaway CAFE standards?

    Sources: (1)Detroit News 7/17/08, (2)my remaining functioning neurons.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    consider a diesel engine for better mpg, like the MB E320 CDI???...any Lincoln model will already have the add'l sound insulation materail, so a loud diesel would not be loud...

    Plus, if the rich folks who buy the MB for $55K and up can pump diesel, so can the semi-rich folks who might buy the Lincoln...
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    douglasr: Mr. Fields is no Robert McNamara, but with Jaguar and Volvo out of the way, and a serious competitor all but vanquished from the field before it even engaged battle, Lincoln now has a chance, just as it did in November 1960, to set a new stage, and a new pace.

    In November 1960, the 1961 Lincoln Continental was ready for introduction. Lincoln has nothing scheduled for introduction within the next few years that will have the presence of that Continental. One wonders if Lincoln can last that long.
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    jeyhoe: So Chrysler cant build ONE luxury car because of CAFE, vs Lexus who makes nothing but luxury cars is gonna make more. I just dont get it.

    Lexus fuel economy figures are averaged in with those of Toyota for purposes of determining CAFE ratings. Toyota and Scion give Lexus a "cushion" that allows it produce heavier, less fuel-efficient luxury cars.

    Agree about the Imperial, though...it really was ugly. Chrysler dodged a bullet on that one.
  • jeyhoejeyhoe Member Posts: 490
    "...consider a diesel engine for better mpg, like the MB E320 CDI???..."

    This would seem to have been the perfect solution for the Imperial, no? I mean, with the Daimler connection why not an Imperial with a diesel engine std or optional? A forward-thinking car company would have moved in that direction, IMHO, rather than throwing in the towel.
  • jeyhoejeyhoe Member Posts: 490
    "Lexus fuel economy figures are averaged in with those of Toyota for purposes of determining CAFE ratings. "

    Sure, but Lincolns are figured in with Ford and part of my point was that Ford is not building enough small, fuel efficient cars to offset a Continental. Focus, that's IT. And the Focus is old as the hills. In what 3 years they're gonna bring in a small car from Brazil? That's IT on the horizon AFAIK. Too little, too late and not even American.

    And in fact, even the Lexus non-hybrids get better mpg than their Lincoln "competition", eg MKZ 19-27 vs ES350 21-30 (as if the Z competes with the ES.) MKX 18-25 vs RX350 20-25 or vs RX400h 33-28.
  • jeyhoejeyhoe Member Posts: 490
    "Agree about the Imperial, though...it really was ugly. Chrysler dodged a bullet on that one."

    If anyone has forgotten what the Imperial was going to look like, check out the pix that are on autoextremist.com right now. Eeeooooww. Maybe AE is right and Chrysler cancelled the thing not becaue of gas prices, but because looking at it can give you gas.
  • jae5jae5 Member Posts: 1,206
    But can ChrysCo still tap Daimler now that they're sold? And what does this decision do to the LY-platform (300/Magnum/Charger/Challenger)?

    Sorry for the sidestep, back to Ford and Lincoln...
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Damiler still owns 19 percent of Chrysler.
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    You were originally comparing Lexus to Chrysler (because Chrysler said that it was abandoning the Imperial because of tighter CAFE regulations - if so, we finally can thank CAFE for something good).

    Ford sells so many F-150s and Explorers (even with the downturn in sales) that it would have to sell something on the order of 500,000 Focuses to make up for it.

    That's a tremendous figure for a small car in this country.

    Honda only sells about 350,000 Civics, and everyone agrees it is one of the class acts in its segment. Now figure that the smaller Ford will probably pull a fair number of sales from the cheaper Focus models, and Ford's challenge becomes even clearer.

    Ford is scheduled to bring its all-new Fit competitor to the country. I thought it was by 2010. An all-new Focus, which will once again be in synch with its European counterpart, is scheduled for either 2010 or 2011. The Fusion gets a makeover - but not a complete redo - for the 2009 model year.
  • jae5jae5 Member Posts: 1,206
    Yes, this is true, but with that little of an investment, why would Daimler help out on a platform? Granted, even if Chrysler goes the route they did with the current LX, using a past-gen E-Class platform/underpinnings, would Daimler help with a huge investment such as that? I would venture that the "help" would be on a much smaller scale.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,499
    One also wonders if it should.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Aw, man! I was looking forward to one day buying a "poor man's Phantom!" Those bums over at Cerberus!
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Ford sells so many F-150s and Explorers (even with the downturn in sales) that it would have to sell something on the order of 500,000 Focuses to make up for it.

    If I'm not mistaken, grbeck, Ford loses money on every Focus it sells here, but does that willingly for the sole purpose of the CAFE advantage they get from that car. Now that it's so long in the tooth, perhaps it's not so much a loss-leader, but that is one reason it hasn't been re-invented yet. Personally, I don't like the Focus, never have. Even when it was new, and had a dozen recalls - not even when C/R made it a "recommended" vehicle, which it no longer does. Mechanically, it seems to be sound, but the body is tinny, the trunk barely fits to close, it's ugly, rough, noisy and reminds me of a Malibu when I drive it - another of my pans in the low end auto club. No Fucos for me, I'd get a Hyundai Elantra instead.
  • I don't care much for the Focus either, but it should be pointed out that it is selling very well in 2007, especially for a car in the 8th year of its cycle. A greater percentage and actual number of Foci sell to regular customers out of dealerships (rather than fleets) than do Cobalts and Caliburs. At this stage, Ford may not even be losing anything on them. Now, with the investment in that mediocre 2008 update, I don't know...
  • brucelincbrucelinc Member Posts: 815
    While PAG may well be dismantled or at least parts of it sold off, I just want to toss out a couple of opinions.

    Ford has basically gotten all the "goody" out of Volvo. They have/had good platforms that are the basis of the Taurus, Sable, MKS, etc. They had some safety technology that was useful. Having said that, the current Volvo line-up really doesn't add anything to the Ford fleet. The S80 is nothing special. In Fact, the 3.2 version is barely more compelling than a Taurus. I don't know what they were trying to do with the V8, but at its price point it is not competitive with much of anything. If they were aiming at Audi or BMW, they missed the mark. The other Volvo models may have some merit but are not even close to class leading. Why not sell Volvo since it is profitable and should be saleable?

    Jag/LR, on the other hand, have models that Ford Detroit lacks. They really fill out the higher rung of the ladder. The XF looks like a potential winner. The XK is very impressive. The XJ has huge potential with a major rework of the styling (already planned). Drop the X Type like a rock. LR has a good line-up with more on the way. Jag/LR won't likely bring in much cash if sold so why not keep it and give it one more shot at success?

    The funds from Volvo could help rebuild Lincoln into what it should be - the finest American luxury car. Focus on the flagship Lincoln model first, drastically upgrade the MKZ to be competitive with the Lexus ES 350, and forget about the Mark LT. Jag models should pick up where Lincoln leaves off.

    Lots of business flaws in my thinking, no doubt. The enthusiast in me would sure like to see Jag under the Blue oval, though, and Lincoln return to the glory days.
  • I agree with most of your points. But Ford has this predilection these past 10 years to make some really wrong moves. Jaguar has been a money pit for them, but much of it has been their own fault.

    The person who approved the styling of the new "Ford" XJ sedan should have gotten walking papers long ago. The S-Type was fine styling-wise when new, but had a cheap interior that needed an instant re-do. And then they planned a 10 year product cycle in a very competitive segment. Good thinking, guys. Can you say stale? And the X-Type? Talk about taking all the current Jaguar cues and making an overstyled but still-not-so-pretty small Jaguar. All Ford's doing again.

    Yes, Audi/Mercedes/BMW/Volvo/Cadillac/Lexus, etc. all have small, medium and large sedans, but somehow the other companies have done a better job of making the small one a desirable product.

    You are right about what's coming from Jaguar. The XK is now very good, and the 2008 XF, as well as the XJ re-draw look terrific. At this point, they will have to pay someone to take Jaguar off their hands, so why not see if the new models and new thinking work?

    Land Rover I am not so sure about. Expensive vehicles, but just barely in the black as a division. Their quality and reliability ratings are abysmal, even while Jaguar rates very high on these scores now. Range Rover is planned to move even further upmarket. The new LR2 is still too much like a fancy, better equipped Escape. The LR3 is no longer burning up the sales charts. It seems to me if LR is saleable, then grab the money.

    The Lincoln Navigator needs to offer a model much more competitive with the Range Rover ilk, and the LR3 could be re-done as a Lincoln using a heavily modified Explorer architecture. Just a thought. But I definitely agree that Volvo is the one which could raise some real cash, and without speeding up Volvo product cycles even more (a very pricey proposition), Volvo will always be struggling to continue to do well against Lexus, Infiniti, BMW, Audi and now even Hyundai in the next few years.
  • douglasrdouglasr Member Posts: 191
    Cerberus has put in its bid for Jaguar, along with five other firms. It will be a sad day if it rolled over to Chrysler, on the heels of the cancellation of Imperial. Jaguar then will have taken yet another casualty of the opportunity cost of investment in that brand; Imperial. Having nearly buried Lincoln due to lack of investment, Ford Motor is now struggling to rebuild Lincoln.

    Of course, nothing will ever duplicate the excitement of the 1961 Lincoln Continental introduced in November 1960. The Mark R does not take its place. Neither does the S. Yet the chance remains for the team at Lincoln to bring people back to the brand---not through trucks or suv's. If ever a group of stylists and engineers had a tough task, this is it. Yet the chance remains.

    Wixom is cleared, and will be by the end of August---to make room for a new car---if Ford Motor is smart.

    The sale of both Jaguar/Land Rover and Volvo will net some $19Bn plus for Ford Motor. Enough to refinance the reinvestment in Lincoln. At this point Ford Motor must leak future product to the public, in order to keep potential buyers in the pipeline, and expectations high. Now is the time to promote Lincoln---both to its traditional base, and to people who would never consider the car at all, but can afford it.

    The discussions inside the Glass House both about UAW contract deals with Chrysler, and also the cancellation of Imeprial will figure highly in the corridors at Ford. They can't help but talk about it. Whether Mr. Lutz can hold the day for the V16 Cadillac remains to be seen. With one competitor out of the field, and the potential offloading of much burden at Ford, the chance is now for a new beginning...even while the clock is moving closer to midnight at Ford Motor.

    The danger, of course, is that if Ford Motor continues to drop market share, it will reach the tipping point where it can't stem it losses fast enough---which is what killed Packard before it could fix its product line. Seems impossible that such fate could befall Ford, which is why it is imperative that Lincoln succeed now. The Mark S will not roll out of Chicago until March 2008. Lincoln has eight months to surprise the public....with new product announcement.

    Perhaps then then, they can lead again. Inspire again---a second time round.

    DouglasR

    (Sources: WSJ; FT; Automotive News)
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    To put it simply none of your ideas for Land Rover are a good idea.

    Now as for what Ford should do with lincoln...

    I don't know. GM managed to pull Caddy back from the brink but I don't see much in the pipeline for lincoln that is of the level of the new Caddies.

    The alpha numeric naming is stupid as it is too similar to Acura's naming strat.

    The lincoln concept they showed not long ago could be good but because of the Aphanumeric naming strat I can't even remember what it is called.

    Edit:

    he sale of both Jaguar/Land Rover and Volvo will net some $19Bn plus for Ford Motor.

    Whoa 19 billion????? I don't see Ford getting anywhere near that much money for the three companies combined.
  • I didn't offer any ideas for Land Rover, other than Ford selling it...

    and once they do so, maybe consider some "LandRover-ish" models for Lincoln. Offer Land Rover some competition. After all, if Lincoln stays with big truck production, why continue to just sell Ford clones? How about competing in the true luxury segment, rather than just hanging some Lincoln chrome on an already adequate Ford model?
  • brucelincbrucelinc Member Posts: 815
    British Rover and Gregg, I don't have any ideas for LR either. I just lumped them into my post about keeping Jag because I see the two somewhat attached at the hip due to the use the the AJ V8, upcoming aluminum construction for LR, dealer network, etc. Also they both are higher end than Lincoln or where Lincoln can go in the near future.
  • Agreed.
  • brucelincbrucelinc Member Posts: 815
    The person who approved the styling of the new "Ford" XJ sedan should have gotten walking papers long ago.

    Yes, and what about the person who decided that the new 2007 Volvo S80 should look just like the cheaper S60 which has been on the market for several years? Off with his head, I say!!
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