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I wish what they did was kept the Town Car and modernized it along with the Crown Victoria and Grand Marquis. Ford had three cars on my car-shopping A-list, now it has none. There is not one car in Lincoln's lineup I would take over any of their foreign or domestic competition.
I disagree. Ford is nicely profitable now with just the Ford brand. They could kill Lincoln and be just fine.
What they need to do is take their time and do it the right way. And that's what they appear to be doing, starting with cleaning up the dealer network. They hired a team of 85 people just to oversee and manage this turnaround and they came from other luxury mfrs like Audi, Lexus, MB, etc.
They seem to be purposely starving Lincoln to cull the herd before they start building up again.
It does seem to be clear that while Lincoln will continue to use Ford platforms they will not be recognizable like some of the current efforts.
Name ONE other mfr that still builds body on frame CARS, much less luxury brands. There is a reason for that.
I dunno, GM seems to be making money from their revamping of Cadillac.
As long as they don't starve the dealer base out of business at the same time. Co-locating Lincoln and Ford would be a huge mistake and water down the Lincoln brand. further
Ford is nicely profitable now with just the Ford brand. They could kill Lincoln and be just fine.
Maybe, but those large luxury car profit margins generate some nice cash flow in an otherwise cutthroat business. Also, wealthy buyers are more likely to be there during significant economic downturns. Trucks have been a great ride, but if gas keeps going up that segment is going to loose a lot of its profitabililty and cash generation down the road.
Which body on frame Caddy passenger cars are leading them to success?
"Lincoln sales advanced by less than 4 percent over the Great Recession year of 2009. That compared with a 35-percent gain by Cadillac and a 28-percent increase for Infiniti.
there’s no denying that GM’s efforts to forge a new Cadillac largely have paid off."
Without the CTS, and in cheaper gas times the Escalade, it wouldn't be happening. There's no big old BOF Fleetwood anymore.
That crossover van thing they have has one of the most ungainly rear ends in the industry. That can't help.
Americans for whatever reason want their CUVs to look more like SUVs than the traditional wagon. Never mind that they all ALL tall wagons! What does logic have to do with any of this? Perception is everything, and just as the Chrysler Pacifica, the Taurus X, the previous Cadillac SRX (they went for the CUV look this time around and sales have taken off), and even the Ford Flex looks more wagon-y than CUV-y...every one of these has suffered poor sales.
The MKT also looks like a portly station wagon. Had they had the balls to introduce it in the controversial shape of the concept car that preceded it, the MKT may have had a chance at building a certain following. This was Lincoln's first clean sheet car under Mulally, and it turns out they would have been better off to just skip it, rather than issue such a watered down, slab sided design.
I'm really anxious to see what the new designs look like. This will be the first time in decades that Ford has made a concerted effort to make Lincoln competitive without other things getting in the way (Mercury, Jaguar, etc.).
I agree once new product is out. In the interim, since the tooling was paid for long ago, keeping the TC and its fleet business would have provided a nice, steady cash flow.
If there was, I would have one and a new one would be at the pinnacle of my car shopping A-list! :shades:
Still have my old BOF Cadillac and it's staying with me for a long, long time!
BMW has a very nice wagon, but what do we get? Ungainly monstrosities like the X3 and X5.
But back to Lincoln...what is needed are pretty and very distinctive designs, not cautious elements of Japanese and German mid-luxury design language as contained in the MKS. If they introduce just one model with some wow factor (no Lincoln today has any), sales will begin to stabilize and turn around.
Ford has given Lincoln designers the green light for 100% unique designs - they're allowed to change everything including the green house, glass and roof lines in addition to Lincoln unique features like retractable roofs.
With PAG and Mercury gone the only question now is execution.
Now I want to go back even more.
The American market is so dumb...is anything more of a douchemobile than a X6?
Lincoln is going to have to pull a rabbit out of a hat. And Lincoln will be needed soon. Looking at VW for example...their two biggest brands here are VW and Audi. Although Audi sales have grown remarkably, they are held back by limited capacity. Audi sales are a small fraction of VW sales. But they don't need to use any incentives to move them, and consequently, Audi contributed just as much money to overall VW profits last year as VW did. The other interesting thing is that Audi buyers do not tend to see their cars as fancier VWs, and in fact often do not even know that VW owns Audi.
So Ford will likely need Lincoln to keep pace long-term. But bringing this moribund brand back from the dead in the face of well-established brands like Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Infiniti, Cadillac, even Jaguar now, not to mention Hyundai with new versions of Azera (Cadenza?), Genesis and Equus...and all expanding and updating their lines continuously...well, let's just say it won't be easy. Look at Volvo...they have a really good line-up now (and finances for new designs again), but building back is a real struggle for them.
Remember Lincoln had been trading the best selling luxury brand title with Cadillac back and forth until 1998? The best selling luxury cars were the Town Car and DTS. The market has changed dramatically since then and Lincoln did not change with it.
But Lincoln did recognize the change and did one effort to lure the younger drivers with the 2000 Lincoln LS, a car with a lot of BMW influence in it. It won the Motor Trend Car of the Year in 2000, and was the top selling model in the first 2 years, before Ford abandoned it.
Year BMW 5 M-B E Lexus GS Lincoln LS
2000 39703 xxxxx 26705 51039
2001 40005 44445 24461 57164
2002 40842 42598 17246 39775
2003 46964 55683 13306 33581
2004 45584 58954 8262 27066
2005 52722 50383 33457 19109
2006 56756 50195 27390 8797
This is a proof that if Lincoln can set their minds and resources to something new, they can make it happen.
It would have been difficult to update the LS without starting anew, and by then there was no money to do so. It had all been spent paying way too much for unprofitable luxury brands and UAW contracts that put Ford at a further disadvantage to the domestic "foreign" brands now kicking its [non-permissible content removed]. That's why we got things like the Zephyr and Aviator. Unfortunately, those sorts of efforts are no longer worth the money put into them either.
The sad part now is that it will be years before Lincoln turns over its current models to more competitive ones. I remember Audi rebuilt itself after disaster, but it took many years. Lincoln could do it too, but meanwhile too many former Lincoln buyers will have developed new allegiances by then. Or they will be dead.
That's true, and they do. Hertz, Enterprise, Dollar, Thrifty, police departments, cities, counties, and Livery services buy the new....and the public buys them second hand. At half price, by the way. Nevertheless, I liked the Panther cars because they were tougher than rocks. You could drive a Town Car over a median, up a curb, and through a ditch, and never hurt it, not even knock it out of alignment. There isn't a tougher frame and platform in production without a truck on the top of it. They got actually good mileage, especially for their size, with excellent power, comfort, quiet and room. That's not all bad..... I admit their time is probably over, I guess it actually is, but I had great respect for them.
I agree, the MKT is "butt ugly"... :P
Also, for the record, I HATE the MK soup names.... I hate them so badly, I have bought elsewhere even if I liked the new Lincoln. If anybody out there is listening, I've never met anybody who was warm to the MK names. Not that fond of the _TS names Cadillac uses either.
You do like those old style aircraft carriers, don't you Lemko! I don't blame you, I like big cars too, which is why I drove Caddys and Lincolns for decades. Then, they went the way of the environmentalists. I like the looks and interior of the MKS, not really fond of the 6 cylinder motor, but the turbo and the AWD take most of that annoyance away. My problem with the MKS is the PRICE for a 6 cylinder FWD car. Sheesh!! I think they are way overpriced for what you get.
It did not take very long for Ford to turn around its Ford lineup to be very competitive; Ford could do it to Lincoln if they decide to do so.
Why don't I own one? I considered it not too long ago. I liked that Ford had fixed the cars to a great degree, better more reliable engines and electronics. I loved the drive, liked the looks, although dated, it had pedigree. However, it's low and a little tight for me. It's hard to get out of because of my bum left knee. And, when it goes out of warranty and DOES need repair, it's a fortune. The Lexus drives like warm wallpaper paste, but it never breaks, and it's cavernous inside. Features are superior in the cabin. Now that TATA owns Jaguar, I'm a little skeptical of where they will go. At this time, they are still using the Ford designs I think, but that will go away, and I've seen the NANO. That worries me.
Tata is at least 16 companies, one of which is Tata Motors. Tata makes many other cars and trucks, besides the Nano, and you see them all over India. Tata has big plans for both Jaguar and Land Rover, and the money to bring new ideas to market.
The LWB XJ is a roomy car, and not quite as low as Jaguars used to be. Their reliability is now on a par with many other good cars. Look for a certified car...they will begin showing up here and there. Probably long before Lincoln offers anything that will interest you.
IMO Ford should have kept the Jag & trained all their dealerships to deal with them. When there is only one Jag retailer in the whole state of OR, there is no competition when shopping for one. :mad:
It's not just electronic technologies - it's ecoboost engines, fully controllable suspensions, full retractable glass roofs, top of the line materials.
Ford can't afford to give Lincoln expensive bespoke platforms right now. Maybe after they're successful and Ford has paid off all of the debt they can afford that. Until then they'll do just fine as long as they build great looking vehicles.
I've heard the new MKZ looks like an Aston Martin. I'd say that's a great first step.
Not to be a "negative Nellie" but will technology be enough if the cars don't look different???...give it all the high-tech on the planet and if it looks exactly like a competing Ford model and I think it would be doomed...too many buyers ain't "car folks" like us, and if it looks like the cheaper model, it IS the cheaper model, regardless of what is under the hood...
Good grief - have you not been paying attention? They won't look anything like a Ford - that part has been established for months now. Does a Flex look anything like an Explorer or a MKT? They all share platforms but they're entirely different.
The plan is solid. They don't need Lincoln profits right now - they can afford to wait it out. If they deliver on the dealer upgrades, drop dead styling and luxury features then they'll be successful. We'll just have to wait and see.