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Really? Have you looked at sales numbers for these large RWD premium sedans like the 7-series and S class? They're not that big especially when Lincoln doesn't have global sales.
As for Ford being cheap with Lincoln that was the past when Mercury still existed and Lincoln was part of PAG. Now that all of the distractions are gone it appears Ford is willing to spend the money to make Lincoln successful, starting with the dealer network upgrades and a dedicated 100+ person staff and dedicated design team.
Whether they're successful or not will depend on execution, not money or commitment.
Lincoln can do a lot with the existing platforms to differentiate themselves from Ford. I think the new MKZ will prove that and in the process it may even outsell the mighty CTS.
At some point, Lincoln may decide RWD is necessary to compete, and then they will either go there or die. However, it is not necessary right now. What is needed are cars that stand out, and look and feel like they are worth the money. Meanwhile, people like yourself who appreciate the fine points of well-balanced RWD sedans have choices like BMW. If that is too much money, the new Chrysler 300 and the Hyundai Genesis are quite good at their price points.
On the former, not enthusiasts for the vast sales. It's badge snobs, show offs or perhaps a few that care about engineering. AMG is another story but I'd even say more than 75% buy AMG for the badge.
On the latter, who knows who is buying Equus'. They haven't sold enough of them.
As for the Bentley Continental, and the larger Flying Spur sedan, both are loosely based on the Audi A8 architecture, which starts out FWD. Now, of course all Bentleys are AWD (save the Mulsanne) in order to handle their prodigious power, and improve handling overall. How that power is sent to the rear wheels can be done in a number of ways, and for example, 60% of that power can be sent rearward under all normal conditions, with different percentages adjusted to changing conditions. Lincoln can and will engineer similar systems for their own intelligent AWD systems. Torsen, viscous coupling, and Haldex systems can all be improved with torque vectoring and other electronic aids. The bottom line is that if Audi (and Bentley) can meet many enthusiasts' needs with architecture that started where the front wheels are driven first, so can Lincoln.
And your argument about torsional rigidity fails in the same way. Floor pans contribute of course, but other engineering tweaks affect it as well. None of your objections are anything Lincoln cannot overcome, starting with a good architectural base. The real proof of the pudding will be whether they do it or not, going out from here.
Because going forward no normal person will be able to tell they're brothers.
Sounds like you want a totally dedicated from the ground up luxury brand - if so then there are plenty of choices for you starting with BMW.
Expecting Lincoln to go there - especially at this point in their rebirth - is silly.
Oh man, you're singing my song!~!! I SO want the MK dropped, and go back to the Legacy names! I'd be fine with Continental or Town Car, depending on how this potential car turns out, but I couldn't agree with you more, Edward. And this would be the only way Lincoln would possibly get me back.
I bought an old LS (2001) at the auction for a friend Friday. Driving it Saturday was a throwback to the days when Lincoln had real potential to become a player, before Cadillac even woke up! Nasser, for all his faults, had this idea right. That car, 10 years old, was so far superior to the MK anything they have now, I'm tempted to buy another one for me. Such a good driver's car.
If Ford would develop a RWD platform and tune it well like they did the LS in 2000, and make a couple of real performers out of it, then make a larger cruiser for a Town Car you can stretch, they could come back fairly quickly I believe, just based on what Cadillac was able to do. As a former Cadillac owner (83, 85, 87, 90), as the cars just got worse, and worse, until I could abide them no more, and tried a Lincoln in 92, I never believed Cadillac would recover from its laughingstock sad parody of their former grandeur. But they did. They may never be the "Standard of the World" again, the competition is just too steep now, but they are respected again. Lincoln could be too, I think, with all new excellent product.
Meantime, they got nothin but Buick competitors right now. They are nice Buicks, and good cars I think, if you are not a "car guy", but not even luxury anymore IMO, more like "near luxury". How sad is that?
And PLEASE, if anybody from Ford is listening out there - GET RID OF THE ALPHABET SOUP NAMES!!! I was actually on the focus group with the ad agency that was working on changing the names of the Lincoln Models in about 2000, and the overwhelming concensus from the group was to keep the legacy names of the Lincoln models and to NOT change to letters on any of the models. We did, in fact, name the Aviator, but they wanted to call it an LN 4.6, and we vetoed that. But either management or the agency was hell bent to go with letters to conform to the Euro style of model naming. They did it anyway, but the real idiocy of it was to MK everything! WTF? I hate it so badly, it would be a serious obstacle for me in considering a Lincoln again.
Mercedes uses a system that means something, C, E, S-classes, and the number for the engine inside. You can understand the car by the designation. BMW uses numbers, 3,5,6,7 and 8 followed by the litres of the engine inside - you can easily identify the car with this system.
Cadillac's system is not nearly as good, but you at least know the CTS is small, the DTS is large, and the STS is, well gone now. SRS is wierd, they don't have it right either. But the MK should just be dropped, because every model has it, it identifies NOTHING. May as well call them Z, X, T and S.
They do. :P
There are a number of posts saying basically the same thing, Lincoln needs to go RWD to succeed. But isn't one of the hottest luxury brands right now Audi and they seem to be thriving with FWD vehicles???
Totally agree on the asinine Lincoln vehicle names. They seem completely meaningless and confusing.
You make a good point I had forgotten - and not having driven an Audi lately, I don't have a feel for how they drive. I have to assume very well. If Lincoln does go the AWD way, it needs to be a performance engineered AWD, not one made for snow. There is a difference.
I'm wondering how the heck North Korea got them in the first place. Haven't we had a trade embargo with them since the Korean War?
Dig those funky chrome headlamp doors and circa 1982 fog lamps! I guess "Dear Leader" wasn't above tacky aftermarket auto accessories!
Probably ebay motors from a BHPH lot in Georgia (not the southern one, the one in Soviet Russia).
Nice mirrors, too.
The Soviets were better off copying old Packards than coming up with their own designs.
I like this one much better!
Yeah, you're right. But don't you think Ziv sounds more Rusky - just kidding! I enjoyed those pictures, but maybe that newer one is a cross between a stolen Mercedes and a stolen Toyota Cressida? Comparing those two pictures also shows how sometimes older styling is more classic than starker new design concepts regardless of country.
In the 70's, I drove LTDs, Pintos, Mavericks, Torinos. But lusted for a Lincoln. Just couldn't swing it at the time. Misery index and all.
I'd love to have both a 1969 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham and a 1965 Lincoln Continental should I have two automotive wishes granted by the car genie.
Everyone complained about the SRA suspension in the Mustang, yet it outhandles the IRS equipped Camaro easily. Nobody complains about Audi sharing platforms on the A4 and
That's right. It only seems to matter what Ford builds on their shared platforms. And don't go off on the "rebadging same panels" either. Cadillac builds the SRX on the Equinox platform, as well as the Terrain and now a Buick clone, that's fine. The CUV Traverse has birthed the Acadia, the Enclave, and originally, the Outlook, now Caddy is getting it. Tahoe, Escalade, Fine. Honda builds Acuras on Accord platforms and Civic platforms. No complaints. Toyota builds Lexuses on Camry platforms albeit, only the ES, but no shame in that. Infiniti has been pretty much unique except for their SUVs which are on Nissan truck platforms, but are now going FWD and AWD on Nissan platforms. Jeep/Chrysler, the Grand Cherokee and the Durango are so similar, from the rear, I can't tell them apart until I read the badge. Audi/VW, the list goes on and on, but good heavens, if Ford does it, they're cheap? I'm tired of hearing it too. :mad:
Also, to be fair, in the past GM has often gotten the same criticism (not for their platform sharing so much) for previously sharing the same bodies (like Ford has often done) as well. The Tahoe and Escalade used to use the exact same body with a different front clip, tail lightsand miscellaneous trim pieces. There is now more differentiation between them than there is between the Expedition and Navigator, but it is still not enough. That is why the the Traverse and Acadia and Enclave had more differentiation out of the box (though still not enough...that is why more differentiation is coming with the next iterations).
The Equinox and Terrain share almost everything, except all body and interior styling. Although twins underneath, they really do look like different vehicles on the road. The SRX is much more modified from those two and does not share wheelbase or any exterior dimensions. This is what I would expect Lincoln to do with a Ford Kuga/Escape base for a Lincoln vehicle.
As for the upcoming Buick Encore, it shares nothing with the Equinox. Like the Regal (and even to some extent the Lacrosse and Verano) it is based on an already existing Opel model. GM had considered selling Opel while in the the throws of imploding, but ultimately did not. This has saved the US arm of Buick (the Chinese arm needed no saving, as it was and is going like gangbusters) by providing badge engineered models of cars that are not otherwise available here.
So, the bottom line is Ford (like some others) had been cheap and uncreative with their Ford, Mercury and Lincoln cloning. Sales of Mercury and Lincoln began to reflect the new market realities. Vestiges of that are still being phased out, as some Ford models held on to this scheme longer than other makes did (for instance, the 2012 Expy and Nav).
Like you and Allen, I don't think there is any problem with using an existing platform as a base for building a better car. That means that this time around, the MKZ won't simply be a Fusion with lipstick. In addition to having its own styling (that's simply mandatory these days, but far from enough), it will also have some identifiable Lincoln features that are not considered Ford features, and some unique powertrains. Otherwise, Lincoln would be headed for the same dustbin as Mercury ended up in.