Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

Where Is Ford taking the Lincoln Motor Company?

1111214161790

Comments

  • douglasrdouglasr Member Posts: 191
    ARM's tennure begins foremost with the streamlining of Ford Motor. Ford's share precisely where it was in 1945, the difference now is that foreign competition has taken place of the once "independent" manufacturers like Packard, Hudson, Studebaker, etc.

    Lincoln received the most attention among the various brands in yesterday's announcements from the Glass House. This fact should not be overlooked. Speculation is that the chorus of the many enthusiasts of the marque, ourselves included, must have struck a loud chord within the halls of Dearborn. This fact should not be discounted. Reprieve for the rwd Town Car, and the chance to bring on its replacement, or a top-line car above Mark S, is now in the offing. Very much like the reprise of the Continental in 1945, and the subsequent introduction of the Mark II in 1955. This fact should not be denied.

    Aston's are history at Ford's. Dr. Bez wisely cashing in his chips. Mr. Callum at Jaguar may well get one more round at the table before Jaguar goes away in 2007 to form the new 'British Motor Corporation' under Mr. Nasser at the behest of UBS and Morgan Bank. The number of chips Ford Motor can place on the table diminished but not done. Ford was in far worse shape in terms of its products and market share worldwide in 1945 than it is today. Ford owned all of its assets in 1945, and its vertically integrated structure, especially steel production at The Rouge, saved it during the supply shortages of the Korean War. Today, with the exception of The Rouge, Ford has largely divested itself of many of those assets. Despite that reality, the resources it can draw upon are greater, at a far lower cost, thus giving Ford Motor a chance at revival, now needed.

    All eyes are on the Glass House. ARM has the chance now to set the tone, pace, and grace at Ford Motor. We can be thankful, that even days after his arrival, and the very day of his debut, Ford made him a millionaire---receiving his $18Mn signing bonus---that Lincoln was highlighted to the degree that it was. There can be little doubt that ARM has already taken the wheel of Lincoln. With Lincoln now being made in three countries, can there be any doubt that overseas production is not far in the offing? Even if that does not come to pass, nor being considered, ARM will want to beat Lexus. If Jaguar will not become profitable, it will soon go---having left a very large deposit in the 'cat-box' among the cophers at Ford Motor.

    Ford Motor is slimming itself down to compete against Toyota---and all other takers. In doing so, ARM has the chance now to checkmate the competition---Ford now being, in one sense, where Chrysler was in 1979, having the advantage of the underdog. Chrysler subsequently doubling its market share, and returning to its traditional position. Ford Motor has the chance to do the same in the next five years. Yet the effort will have to reflect the same attitude expressed by Mark II designer John Reinhardt---succeed at any cost.

    That the Glass House has chosen to start with Lincoln is a harbinger of things to come. In this there is no denying. ARM must strike the same chord with his new team, that we ourselves may very well have struck with him.... The old "greyhound" may very well be back in the race. You can bet this upcoming week when he walks in the design studios and sees where Lincoln is going, he will tell Mr. Mays, Mr. Thomas, and Mr. Horbury, along with Mr. Fields, "We can do better than this..."

    Striking fast and furious, Lincoln is just an ARM's length away from the world.

    DouglasR
  • ehaaseehaase Member Posts: 328
    Is that a guess ? What will be the top engine ?

    No it's not a guess, the 3.7L V6 for the MKS was reported in the restructuring news yesterday (but I am too lazy to find the links), and it is the only engine reported for the MKS.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    Seriously Rocky, I do agree with you.

    As for me the Best of Canada is their Canadian Rockies and the Best of The Rockies is their ski resorts. Although Whistler/Blackcomb is regarded as No. 1 in America. :)
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    How much power ? Is it Twin Turboed ?

    Rocky
  • ehaaseehaase Member Posts: 328
    How much power ?

    The article did not say - probably between 270 and 300 hp.

    Is it Twin Turboed ?

    No

    http://media.ford.com/newsroom/release_display.cfm?release=24284

    In 2008, we further strengthen the Lincoln brand. In August, I confirmed plans for a new Lincoln flagship sedan the Lincoln MKS. We plan to build it in Chicago and equip it with more technology and features than any Lincoln before it, including all-wheel drive and a new, exclusive 3.7-liter engine.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Only 3.7? I would have bored and stroked the 3.5L V6 to 4 liters, 300hp for the base version, then added a wideband low-pressure turbo, 350hp for the upper-trim model. 3.7's not far enough away from the MKZ unless that one's keeping the old 3.0 V6.

    Save the twin turbos for a 400hp AWD MKZZ :surprise:
  • ehaaseehaase Member Posts: 328
    3.7's not far enough away from the MKZ unless that one's keeping the old 3.0 V6.

    No, the MKZ has the 263 hp 3.5L V6. At least Lincoln will keep one V8 powered car for a few more years.
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    "At least Lincoln will keep one V8 powered car for a few more years. " --Which car is that?
  • ehaaseehaase Member Posts: 328
    Town Car
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    What a disappointment. The MKS, needs atleast 315 hp. to move all that girth. I can handle a premium vehicle with a V-6 if it has a premium performance enhancement like a turbo or two. I can't understand Fords logic ??? No wonder they are losing money and market share ground. :sick: The MKS, looks to be another Acura RL type failure. :cry:

    Rocky
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    You're right, once again Ford announces one thing and does something else:

    Town Car Lives
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Cool! At least they still have ONE car left that I would still consider. I just hope they get around to doing some significant updates on the car.
  • ehaaseehaase Member Posts: 328
    After driving a Ford Five Hundred last week, I am a bigger fan of Ford's big Panther platform than ever before.

    But I still think that CV/GM/TC won't be around for more than five more years, that Ford will make only very minor updates, and that the Mustang will be Ford's only RWD car by 2013.
  • 2013? You are joking, right? If Ford has nothing other than the Panther platform with insignificant updates (like the 2007 Grand Marquis), and the Mustang, Ford ain't gonna be around in 2013!!
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Other than the looks, why didn't you like the 500? I've driven them, and hate how they look inside and out, but have to admit it's a hellova functional design.
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    Functional. That's what I like about the 500. It's much more functional than the Chrysler 300, and that would sell the car to me over the 300. Personally, I don't want to drive a car that screams "look at me." Put more hp under the hood, and I can see it being our next car.
  • Personally, I love driving a car that is functional and also says look at me. That's why I liked some earlier Lincoln efforts like the 41 Mark, the Mark III, the Mark VII, the 86-87 Continental, the 1990 Town Car...and even the 1998 TC...but not the 2007 essentially the same as the 98. The 500 may be getting a better engine and be handy as heck, but it still will look like today's version of the Checker cab.
  • ehaaseehaase Member Posts: 328
    Other than the looks, why didn't you like the 500?

    Actually, I like the looks of the 500, as well as the roomy trunk. I hated all of the noise and vibration. I enjoy the quiet, smooth performance of my CV.
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    That new 3.5 V-6 can't get here soon enough for the Five Hundred/Montego.
  • douglasrdouglasr Member Posts: 191
    "We are acquiring it, and we're not looking to sell it, we believe it is a valuable asset for us..." Ford Spokesperson Allan Hall was talking about...not Lincoln, but Rover! Ford excercised its right to buy the name from BMW AG. Amidst the seeds of the reorganisation of Ford Motor, one analyst stated on NBC: "it's the end of Ford as we know it..." as Wall Street has given the collective thumbs down on the revision of the Way Forward Plan, and Ford shares continue to drop. Let them drop to $6 and then buy as many as you can. Why?

    Wasn't it the Rover investment at BMW that nearly sank the company? Losing Billions? Yes.

    Wasn't it Rover that BMW was equally pleased to get rid of? Yes. But it has now become a property the Chinese want to fight over...so Ford checkmated their move. Exporting Chinese made Rovers to Europe might have killed Ford's business prospects for mid-range cars. SO...Rover will become all the X range Jaguars. Paring the cat in half...and reviving a brand at the same time. Ford also gets the rights to many other British labels at the same time---so they can expand them if need be.

    Wait? Isn't PAG losing money? Yes, but that is because the Jaguar expansion has handled poorly, not that the new Jaguars are bad cars. No one wants a cheap Jaguar, or see a smaller estate wagon carrying the same name as their more expensive $85,000 sedan. It's not Mercedes-Benz. In order to 'recover' their investment in the Big Cat, Rover comes rolling. And Ford of Europe Chief Designer and Engineer Richard Parry-Jones can revive a P5 Rover sedan.

    So what does that have to do with Lincoln? Making a success from the Jaguar debacle would not only save the careers of many Ford executives (Mr. Fields?) it would place a marker within the public that Ford won't give up the ship---and it is not the "end of Ford" as we know it. As suggested by Mr. Lapham of Auto News, Rovers could also be paired with Mazda to provide a wide margin in the middle of the market below Jaguar and Lincoln---acting as the "Mercury" of Europe.

    This would free efforts to revive Lincoln and place it far above where it is now in the market, plus consolidate its traditional position---now that Town Car will be built: "for a number of years" according to Mr. Fields. A 2010 Town Car is now a reality---and if sales start to pick back up once production starts at St. Thomas in the spring of '07, TC will receive upgrades for the '08 season---increasing the content levels as is now being done with Mark S. This leaves the door open for a fourth Lincoln---apart from the SUV/Truck based varients. Zephry/MarkZ-Town Car-Mark S-Continental?

    Placed beneath its hood can be the 420Bhp 4.6 Litre engine---something Lincoln can easily use. The new 3.7 starts at 315Bhp, and perhaps can be massaged to hit 400Bhp for a top-line Lincoln or Continental. If it cares to do so, it can "buy" Aston engines from Koln, once Astons are spun off--though its a fair bet that Ford will keep the Astons engine plant and sell the motors to Gaydon as a supplier.

    With the heat off Jaguar, a Rover revival at a cheap price, the British makes bundled together to form their own 'Division' within PAG (which should in all likelyhood be reformed itself), the top-line brands within Ford could thus become cash earners. This would make a tangible asset for development or sale. (Mr. Nasser is waiting) Yet Lincoln would be the beneficiary because more funds could be ear-marked for the division that would have gone to Jaguar. This is precisely the action that would reflect favorably on ARM. Ford of Europe remains profitable, and has provided much balm in the current storm for Detroit, which has also assiduously defended its turf, maintaining a consistent 10-12% share. Something Ford must do in America.

    Chrysler stock sank to $4.35 in 1979, and if you had invested $10,000 then, you would have become a millionaire off the investment. The Ford family will not abandon their investment in the company, and even if they privatise it, the fortunes of the stock must go up, because they will not give up. One reason why the Ford-GM talks collapsed, they did not want to cede their influence. If Ford shares hit $15-20, buying now makes your investment worthwhile. Not bad for an 18 month investment! As the bond traders cut Ford's rating to Ba3, and Wall Street orders "sell" issues for Ford stock...amidst the gloom, there is a light at the end of the tunnel, and it is called Lincoln.

    DouglasR

    (Sources: Reuters; NYT; FT; Automotive News; NBC Today Show)
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    ...like the 41 Mark, the Mark III, the Mark VII, the 86-87 Continental, the 1990 Town Car...and even the 1998 TC...

    I think those said "look at me" in a far different, and appealing way, than the chrysler 300 does today. The 500 looks like yesterday's Audi. Which is fine with me ;) .
  • It looks like yesterday's Audi retaining fluid. Yesterday's Audi after too many burgers and not working out. Yesterday's Audi's great Aunt Ethel.
  • savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    Reviving Rover is another pipe dream from Ford. If you already have Ford and Mazda why do you need Rover? Rover does not have any value in Europe - people actually trying to avoid it. British luxury still makes some sense but British mainstream sedan does not make any sense.
  • ehaaseehaase Member Posts: 328
    Ford bought the Rover name to protect the Land Rover name. Ford will never use the Rover name for any cars.
  • Not true. Ford may very well use Rover at some point to replace duds like the X-Type Jaguar. Rover is a venerable old name and could be kept in a back pocket for some creative models in years to come...if Ford makes it out of this ditch.
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    Why Warren Buffet's Town Car is for sale on eBay:

    Buffett backs GM
  • ehaaseehaase Member Posts: 328
    Not true. Ford may very well use Rover at some point to replace duds like the X-Type Jaguar. Rover is a venerable old name and could be kept in a back pocket for some creative models in years to come...if Ford makes it out of this ditch.

    Internet speculation.
  • savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    There are more venerable and respectable names that never were brought back, like Cord or Dusenberg. Oldsmobile is also venerable name. When something dies – it is forever. There is no resurrection after death. DC tried to bring back Maibach but without success. If they want to resurrect Plymouth (there were rumors about it - division similar to Scion) I’d tell them – come up with something new and fresh.
    People like fresh stuff not stale and failed marques.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Reason enough for me to back Ford..... :surprise:
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    is Ford better dump some money into Lincoln and make this thier luxo lineup to compete with Lexus/Acura/BMW/Caddy's ect.. Ford needs a brand for its image and Lincoln must be it. If anything dump Mercury, put the dollars into Lincoln. Ford needs some luxury sport sedans/cross overs ect to go head to head with the luxo giants like BMW/Mercedes/Lexus/Acura. Come on Ford, bite the bullet and get to work!! I am confident Ford can build a true high end sports sedan line-up.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...Lincoln just doesn't get it. I don't want F-150s and Expeditions masquerading as luxury vehicles. I don't want pimped-out Mazdas with cheezy hood prop rods, and most certainly don't want pseudo-Acuras. If I want an Acura, I'll buy one, not a poor imitation.

    I want something as impressive and stately and elegant as the classic 1961-65 Continental. I want no compromises in workmanship or quality of materials. I want RWD and a V-8. How dang hard is that? Back in the early-mid '60s Lincoln had two cars - the Continental sedan and the Continental four-door convertible and it was sufficient.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Perhaps the MKS, won't look so acura-ish in person lemko ? I guess we will soon see. My great friend made a comment that made me laugh yesterday. He said he appreciates the Fords being loyal to it's management but if the Detroit Lions are a reflection of Ford cars he doesn't want one. Even my dad, said you'd think the Fords would want a winning team on the field to help advertise the Ford brands as all being winners. :confuse:

    Rocky
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    I think Lincoln's going for the demographic represented by the black Mazda-clone Zephyr riding on chrome dubs I saw Saturday. Old white boys need not apply.
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    Did you see the Dwayne Wade Navigator commercial yesterday during Sunday Night Football?

    This might indicate where their marketing is headed:Lincoln Lounge

    I quote from Ford's website:

    "On your Mark...

    By the 1970s, Lincoln was the premier luxury car to be seen in. It was all about the Mark V, VII and VIII. These cars had a shape that was pure 70s, with a swagger in the back that was all attitude.

    Back in the day, there were three hot cars for the African American community: the Mark, the Town Car and the T-Bird.

    Up until that time, Ford had been generally perceived as a middle-class White car company. But Lincoln changed all that."
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    No, I missed that one.

    The ad copy makes me wonder what happened to the Mark VI?
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    The Lions are pretty pathetic and reflect bad on the Fords. Maybe they can call them the Housecats? Is the blue used in the Lions logo Ford blue? Looks close. At least my Eagles did well yesterday. Don't know what happened against the Giants two weeks ago. They're ahead and they get overconfident and sloppy.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    LOL.... :P

    Lemko, you also don't get your hopes up to high on the Eagles.

    Rocky
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Well, at lease, Lincoln now has a target market, and maybe a reason to live? :confuse:
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    I've always felt Lincoln, had a reason to live. The MKS, regardless of what some think gives Lincoln a reason to live. I'm warming up to the new Navigator, and it's not as ugly as I once thought. The Zephyer or MKK, is a nice vehicle. It needs much more power though. The MKX looks nice also. Lincoln, is on the right track but needs to offer it's customers Acura like levels of performance and luxury at a Acura price. This is what keeps Honda's Acura, a winner IMHO, because they know how to offer the customer value and their products are premium. It's like drinking Sam Adams, at a Colt 45 price. :P

    Rocky
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I think Lincoln should go upmarket where Cadillac is, and build the cars to compete. No more Mazda 6 and Volvo platforms. Jaguar platforms, yes.
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    It's clear they've given up on that.
    At least they seem to recognize they can't compete head to head

    MSRP for the 07 Navigator are about 15% lower than the '06's
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    MSRP for the 07 Navigator are about 15% lower than the '06's

    Wow, that would make them a pretty good deal then. :)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    I disagree Lincoln could offer Cadillac levels of quality, gadgetology at Buick prices. This why Acura, has been so successful and using Volvo platforms isn't at all a bad thing IMHO. Lincoln, could be a Bluecollar workers Cadillac and that isn't a bad thing.

    Rocky
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    Lincoln, could be a Bluecollar workers Cadillac and that isn't a bad thing.

    I'm not even sure I know what that really means, just as I never understood the "luxury for the bluejeans set" (which I found kind of condescending) but I disagree nonetheless. That's not what "Lincoln" once stood for, and it's not what Ford needs. Ford needs a luxury car to provide the same halo over the Ford lineup that Cadillac does for GM.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    "MSRP for the 07 Navigator are about 15% lower than the '06's"

    Well, it should be - the truck is at least 15% cheaper looking on the inside.... GRRRRRRRRRr
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    "Lincoln, could be a Bluecollar workers Cadillac and that isn't a bad thing."

    That's at best, the direction Lincoln is heading, but Mulally may try to reverse that trend. However, based on the Magic Johnson ad campaign, maybe not.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Ford needs a luxury car to provide the same halo over the Ford lineup that Cadillac does for GM.

    Well I thought that's why they baught Volvo, Jaguar, Land Rover, Aston Martin to take care of that problem ? :confuse: I'd see no point in moving Lincoln, further upmarket too ? I guess I didn't graduate Mises buisness 101' so that doesn't qualify me to comment on the obvious common sense I suppose. :P

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Mulally, may try to reverse that trend.

    Does this idiot have any credibility ? Bill Ford made a comment about his (Mulally) Lexus being keyed. What a joke for a CEO, and it will blow up in Ford Jr.'s face. Buh Bye Ford Motor Co. :sick:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    I actually like the 07' interior better than the 06'. I don't see what you see on the cheapening part pal ? :confuse:

    Rocky
Sign In or Register to comment.