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Interestingly, the Murano and FX do NOT share the same architecture. I got burned on this same thing awhile back.
The Murano is a FWD vehicle, but Infiniti wisely made the FX a RWD vehicle. I'm not sure what if any N/I vehicles share the platforms, but there you have it - the cheap entry level one is FWD and the expensive serious machine is RWD. As it oughtta be. Either can be optioned to AWD.
All that said, I think these vehicles DO look a lot alike and I was surprised to learn the underpinnings were different. They both resemble in shape the AMC Pacer, which I think was a better looking car than either the Murano or the FX. (I guess I better put on my flame-proof suit). I don't like either of the Nissan/Infinit crossovers. Just MHO.
I said "I read that the Lincoln box was cancelled."
Now I have read that is not true, that it has been scheduled to be built in Oakville, not Chicago as previously planned.
Obviously, I don't know which is true. I do however think it may be true that Lincoln will have a real hard time selling a box on wheels to former minivan owners (the target market for the Fairlane.) After all, how many blue hairs drive a minivan in the first place?
The Murano is not menacing at all. It it more along the looks of the Subaru Tribeca, the Hyundai Veracruz, the Acura something-something. But I digress.
Please, Lincoln, DON'T build a Ford box on wheels. It may do well for Ford (anything will do better than their stupid minvan effort), but would further cheapen Lincoln.
However, if they can give it some classic Lincoln DNA and flare, well then maybe. The MKX, in addition to being nothing but the Ford with a different trim package (heck, the same fenders front and back will bolt on either one), is also kinda wussy looking. If they can do the box on wheels with more than just changing the grill and tail lights, AND give it a dose of butch (like the FX), it might do Lincoln well. IMHO
Lincoln was neglected to the brink of death. Absolutely no argument there. Given where they're at, it makes sense to share platforms (these are NOT rebadges so don't go there). Lincoln does not have a reputation that allows it to compete with BMW, Mercedes or the more expensive Caddys. They need a RWD platform for a flaship that doesn't exist today.
In the meantime, the dealers need cars they can sell and Ford needs profits. The MKZ, MKS, MKX and other vehicles will be profitable. And those profits will allow Lincoln to get back to where it used to be and start competing.
I'm not disagreeing with that you guys want for Lincoln - I just don't think it's realistic to expect them to get there tomorrow and the steps they are taking in the meantime as stop gaps are adequate if not exciting.
If you disagree, then tell us specifically what you would do if you were in charge of Lincoln.
Keep the Town Car until the new Town Car can be made - in the meantime, give the current Town Car, which isn't a bad handling car at all, a new Interior, that resembles the one in the Navigator, only MORE luxurious. This would be the Signature model - the Executive could remain as is for Livery sales, limos, and cheapskates.
A New Town car could be built on the Jaguar XJ platform, RWD, large and handling great. It should have a hot engine in it that'll move it. The 300hp 4.6L would do. It needs to look like a Lincoln, maybe resemble the 61 Continental. It again must have that Navigator interior in it, or something equally nice. And leather that is soft and thick like the Lexus has. Not that stuff that feels like vinyl they use now.
When it comes out, retire the Panther.
The LS should be revived and updated pretty much as it is, but update the interior, give it lots of options and standard equipment. That car is damn near perfect as it is, just needs to be updated in style all around. If the current engine is too expensive, it could have a powerful 6 in it, like the new 3.5L, but a balance shaft needs to go in it to smooth it out, and make it a Lincoln. The V-8 option could be the 4.6L as in the Town Car. Must remain RWD. Oh, and lets re-name it the Continental, ok?
All Lincolns must remain RWD, except the Zephyr, which could lumber on as an entry level Lincoln, pretty much as is, with a better engine.
Then, we need a small pocket rocket. Something you can get a 6 speed manual in, with a supercharged 4 cyl in it. Something fast, reasonably priced for a Lincoln, RWD of course, and very cute.
The Navigator needs the Hurricane engine at least as an option, and a better reskin, if they can't redesign the whole truck. However, the 78 F-150 guage cluster has to go. All Lincolns will have the electroluminescent guages in them, as glitzy and pretty with colors as possible...
The MKX will be renamed the Aviator again, and be the smaller crossover utility vehicle.
The truck - will be renamed the Navigator LT, and look like one as much as possible.
So, the Heritage model names return, the mission for each is clearly defined, and with hallmark features for Lincoln like RWD, power, refinement, style and Lincoln DNA in each, will attract customers. If not, I'm fired. But the Brand needs 10 years of commitment to see it through. Consistency is the most valuable staple that Mercedes, BMW Lexus and Toyota have going for them, and the missing ingredient at Lincoln and Ford. Fits and starts will not work - the brand has to define itself, and then continually improve. :shades:
The Avalon
The Lexus ES 330
The Lexus RX 330
The Sienna Minivan
Why do you ask?
I probably won't wait until 2009' heyjewel, but then again you never know with me. I disagree with your "old man's" thinking and believe it's more a thing of the past to not buy the first year. I've always been a strong believer of buying the latest and greatest to be ahead of the residual curve. I've always found it better on GM products when using my discount to buy the latest product because I could trade in/sell my vehicle anytime without losing my butt.
The MKZ is getting over 300 hp in 2 years. I'm not writing off Lincoln, like you yet. They got the technology to compete and they are not as over-priced as Caddy's and I love Cadillac's. However Cadillacs are way over priced. The STS should be $56K loaded w/ AWD. The Escalade should top out at $60K w/ 22's Anyways Lincoln, IMHO will give the domestics and imports a run with their new line-up and won't fall apart like some posters predict. :P
Rocky
That's why they need a new RWD platform that's similar to the DEW98 but cheaper than the current Jag DEW variant and able to handle the modular V8s.
Rocky
Well, I do and I don't. I have purchased the first year out redesigned Mercury Mountaineer, and it wasn't bad. The 04 though, is decidedly better except, it's the 04 that has needed 3 transmission rebuilds - the first model year out 02 did not need any.
I also bought the first new Navigator in 03, and as much as people like to say it's really the 97 still, I couldn't find any thing but the motor carried over from 02. Again, it wasn't bad, but it had little things that need adjustment shall we say.
Now, conversely, with amazement I read how bad the new Camrys are this year, with paper mache transmissions, and Toyota not wanting to step up and fix them! That freaks me out, because the two things you could always count on with Toyota, was the bland styling, and bullet proof reliability. No more, it seems, don't buy the 07 Camry, wait for the 08. Honda had this problem in 04 with their transaxles as well. The Japanese are less anxious to fix these problems also - it's just hard for them to believe.
Then there is Nissan. If you do a little research, you'll see that Nissan has problems with their 3.5L engine going bad around 70,000 miles, transmissions failing about the same time, and lots and lots of other quality problems across the line. Yes, Renault has made their mark and turned Nissan into a Peugeot.
Right now, even I'd buy a first year Lincoln or Caddy over a first year Toyota, and I'm steering clear completely of Nissan right now.
-Loren
Lincoln needs to incorporate some cutting edge tech into the TC, like bluetooth, adaptive cruise control, etc., while keeping the tech in the background. Tech should be there to serve, not overwhelm the driver, as in BMW's hated iDrive system. Invent or steal Lexus' auto park system. It's introducing technology like that which makes a luxury brand.
I'd like to see some commonalty among styling cues, like either a waterfall grill or eggcrate grill across the board. I liked the chrome fender caps along the beltline, as in the concepts; it showed some brand DNA.
All Lincolns will have the electroluminescent guages in them, as glitzy and pretty with colors as possible...
Just not too many colors - that might look garish!
You should tell Horbury then because he said the MKS "goes into production" in 2009, which makes it a 2010 model or perhaps 2009 1/2.
Who saw the Patriots/Colts game yesterday? The MKZ was advertised several times during the second half. Kind of a silly ad, but not terrible and not offensive. The features of the car were not dwelt upon, more like a lifestyle commercial - guy actually works at home, but commutes anyway cause the Z is such fun to drive by driving in a circle in the AM and ending up back home. (gee, bit of a waste of gas?)
Whatever, Rocky. Belief can be a strong motivator. Don't bother asking folks who bought, say, a 2000 LS as opposed to a 2001. BTW, what's the "residual" curve? :>)
I don't think you can tell whether he meant calendar year 2009 or model year 2009. We'll just have to wait and see, but the plant seems to be gearing up for a 2008 product launch.
I bought the 2nd Fusion that my dealer received, also expecting teething problems. I've had it for over a year now without a single problem. Nothing. And I'm not the only one. Ford has finally figured out how to build vehicles with top notch quality. Maybe they need to start building everything in Mexico.
:>)
I have seen and heard myself (on TV) the terrorists pleading for votes for democrats. Heck, 2 yers ago perhaps you'll remember bin Laden basically coming out in favor of Kerry righ tbefore the election.
and
the democrats have already said they will raise taxes. Bush eliminated the marriage penalty, they want to bring it back.
It aint propaganda if it's true.
Baaaah
GOP.com might be better for that.
Maybe Ford should take Lincoln to Iraq.
Iraqis have been deprived of decent cars for so long that they might actually believe that the MKZ really is a luxury car.
Let's attend to what Ford has done to Lincoln and whether or not it can be saved. You know...important stuff like that.
it doesn't seem to bother anyone the the camry is the basis for a lot of other vehicles.
lincoln from a mazda chassis? i don't see the big deal as long as it works.
Good comments. You notice I stayed away from the big luxocoupe for now, the Mark IX or X. I liked the concepts too, but am not sure we can sell those in this market yet.
"No Darling, there is a whole series of fairy tales that begin with - "If elected I promise." :P
Take your political energy to the polls today and vote as you're motivated, but the spewing of rhetoric and flinging of accusations is best left for the political ads. Thanks.
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Rocky
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=117436
I'm rockylee and I agree that the Lincoln MKS, will be made in 2008 :P
"Horbury said future Lincolns will feature even more distinctive styling. He said the brand's transformation will be complete when its new flagship, the MKS, goes into production in 2009."
Bud, I really think you need to switch to decaffinated.
I'm rockylee, and I approve of my post. :P
You've chosen to believe some unknown writer for Edmunds rather than the guy who actually works for Lincoln.
"Collins, 43, was executive director of marketing for the Ford, Lincoln and Mercury brands. He was a major force behind Ford's "Bold Moves" marketing campaign, as well as the just-launched "Lincoln Dreams" campaign."
THis sounds like GOOD new to me that this guy is gone.
"Ford Motor Co.'s director of strategic communications, who helped develop a political-style campaign to reshape the company's image, is leaving the automaker after 18 months on the job.
Josh Gottheimer, 31, who previously served as a special assistant and speechwriter to President Clinton and other prominent Democrats"
HoHo, good riddance to him too from my view.
Rocky
-Loren
Lincoln: Reach Higher :P
Rocky
P.S. You get a LS V8, and I'll take a new MKS with a Twin-Turbocharged 3.7 V-6 and place dinner on it. :P
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061106/AUTO01/611060313/1148- /AUTO01
Rocky
The MKS will also suffer in comparison to the STS by being FWD-based AWD (so it will be nose heavy and porkier overall), have less tidy overhangs front and rear, and it will start off offering only one engine. Cadillac has many planned new models and updates, and has no intention of relinquishing market share to Lincoln this fast.
Once Lincoln gets a RWD sedan with a V8, at least as an option, a truly new and dramatically styled Navigator with better mileage, a coupe and/or convertible somewhere in the line-up, and a more powerful and efficient MKX and MKZ, (both re-styled to look like a Lincoln and not something barely above badge engineering), they might recapture the crown. But all those things are many years away.
Meanwhile, we should see their sales increase, although not dramaticall--at least until the MKS and Fairlane-derived (hopefully not a Ford clone like the MKX) vehicles are on board.
Rocky "
Here's the only quote that refers to the MKS:
"(Horbury) said the brand's transformation will be complete when its new flagship, the MKS, goes into production in 2009."
I won't even ask how you interpreted that to mean 2008.
Also, it's 'differentLY' when used as an adverb.
Also, you'll no doubt be happy to know that I will no longer be responding to your posts as I have found it far too frustrating to try to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.
I hope Lincoln is happy reaching this new demographic. Sheesh.