Honda Civic Si Sedan

barretthead · June 2007

that is pretty much where i am at, still adore the car, noise does not happen all the time, but i still worry a bit about it. still feel it should not occur. i will post any updates from the oil change inspection.

cz75 · June 2007

It could just be that the bushings are hard, even if they are rubber, AFAIK. Polyurethane bushings are known to make noise unless well-lubed with grease (usually containing teflon or other additives). That probably explains the annoyance factor without anything being noticeably wrong. Wurth sells a penetrating adhesive lube that can help bushings, so I'll spray some on them next time I get under my car.

I'm probably a bit harsh on Honda, but I don't trust them and have taken a vehicle to them where I already knew what the problem was but just wanted their "expert" second opinion in writing and was surprised that they couldn't figure the problem out. I know some folks at a Honda dealership that employs a family friend and you'd be surprised to hear how bad most of their mechanics are; usually they have one or two skilled mechanics to supervise the difficult work, but this now seems to be they have one or two competent mechanics to supervise the rest of the parts-changers. I try to take my vehicle to an independent Honda-trained mechanic.

aaronr121 · June 2007

Could be correct with the bushings. But it just doesn't seem like that kind of noise. But, if you do spray some lube and it disappears, let us know.

Barretthead, glad you still enjoy it too. On mine, it's very minor. The dealer commented it's probably just NVH, since it is a more performance oriented suspension. Could be...

I've luckily never dealt with dealers, mechanics and all that, Dad's a mechanic and all his buddies are. So, I benefit from their knowledge and I just do the work. Luckily one family friend does work/worked for a local Honda dealer. If something goes wrong, I'm gonna be real chummy with him.

Of course, this car is under warranty. Other than maintaining it, I'm not fixing anything that is their obligation.

I was pleasantly shocked reading the owners manual (yeah I'm a geek and actually did) they tackle oil changes, headlight replacements... Simple stuff (even had the front and rear alignment specs!). But the wife's '98 Beetle owners manual basically referred you to see the dealer for maintance (the guys at VW parts counter were always great though).

a10thunder · June 2007

There's been a lot of reports of the passenger-side rear suspension making clicking, clunking, or popping sounds at low speeds and over bumps. My rear shock started making that noise at 3000 miles and got progressively louder. It sounded like something metallic was loose in the back. I took it to the dealer. They confirmed it was a bad rear shock and replaced it under warranty.

For those that have this noise, I would first try to isolate the noise. I found out the problem was my rear shock by pushing on the body and locating clicking sound. When you go to the dealer, you have to be specific and tell them that it's the suspension. This noise is definitely unacceptable for a new car and should be repaired under warranty. If the dealer doesn't do the repair, try another dealer or file a complaint with Honda.

sifan · June 2007

Hello Everyone:

I bought my SI-Sedan 4 Weeks Ago, and can't wait to get into my SI everyday. But Im getting 17 MPG combined city/highway driving. Current odometer reading is 1000 miles. I always try to keep the RPM around 3000.
I see others are getting high 20's. Is there anything
wrong im doing.

your suggestions or comments is greatly appreciated.

John

vviley · June 2007

Are you using non-premium gas?

eldaino · June 2007

or driving hard? do you do a lot of city driving? because those combined would very easily give you that number.

sifan · June 2007

Hey Wiley & Eldaino:

I always use premium gas. I drive 50%(Highway) and 50% (City). On a full talk for my first 2 fills, i got 210 miles. The next several tanks I got 220 miles. I don't
use the car to race or anything, just normal driving.

Do you guys think it might be a manufacturer defect?

Appreciate any comments or suggestions.

Thanks,
John

sifan · June 2007

Just a question

Did anyone ever get those numbers on a full tank? (~220 Miles)

Thahks,
John

vviley · June 2007

I regularly get 250+ miles on my Si before I fill up with my 10-ish gallons. My average MPG has been right around 25 with mostly city driving. I'd say if you're only getting 17, that a trip to the dealer might be in order. Otherwise, the only other scenarios I could think of is that you're miscalculating your mpg (not trying to make an accusation) or you let your car idle for extended periods of time.

cz75 · June 2007

It's easier to get better mileage if where you live is relatively flat. I live near the bottom of the Appalachians and driving over an honest-to-god mountain on my daily 40 mile round-trip commute gives me a real world 23-26mpg.

vviley · June 2007

True... I didn't think about that part. I live in the midwest and elevation changes really don't come into play much.

kork13 · June 2007

Just to echo cz, your elevation (above sea level) really changes the efficiency of your engine. I heard a figure once that for every 3000ft ASL, you lose about 10% efficiency, performance, etc. due to the thinner air... Can't guarantee that figure, but it's definitely a consideration. So even if you don't go up and down alot, if you're flat but a couple thousand feet up, you'd likely see a noticable dip in performance/efficiency.

aaronr121 · June 2007

Just filled up today, and had 296 miles and it took 10.061 gallons. That's 29.4 mpg. A good mix of 35-50 mph driving (probably an average of stop and go for lights about ever 5 miles, light to moderate traffic) and about 140 miles of moderately congested freeway (no cruise control, speeds from 60-70 mph) and at least 60% of the time was with AC.

I'd say something isn't right. Try a different gas station, and being light on acceleration (I was moderatly aggressive).

A lot of people accelerate too hard in normal driving. And your elevation could have a lot to do with it.

When you do fill up at 210 miles, how much gas goes in the tank? And be consistent on fill-ups. Don't add more fuel after the first time the pump shuts off.

And just to be sure, you are calculating this right? At 17 mpg and the tank being only 13.2 gallons. You are bone dry at 224 miles!

How many gallons of fuel did you put in?

Maybe the fuel gauge/sending unit are bad if it says you are on E?

kork13 · June 2007

"I always try to keep the RPM around 3000."

I just thought of another possibility, though I'm not sure it's actually a cause, or even logical... I just bought my own Si sedan about 6 days ago, and I'm not even completely through my first full tank, but I read through the owners' manual (yes, I'm one of them), and it recommended downshifting at speeds of ~17, 28, 37, 48, and so on (or something like that)... At least in my car, those speeds consistently put it right at about 4000 rpm's. I know this engine's designed to run at the higher rpm's, maybe it's actually better for it to run up there as opposed to the 3000 you've been trying to keep it at? I'm no expert, so don't take it as gospel though...

Really, the best idea I've heard so far is what aaron just said. All of the things we've said so far have been things that will knock you 3-4 mpg, but to lose 11-12 mpg off of what most people are getting seems really weird. A trip to the dealer might be in order, to check the fuel gauge...

Just for your comparison, when I first got mine I had to drive it ~150 miles to get it home, so just for interest, I filled it up to check mileage. I got ~28.4 mpg. I was intentionally varying speeds ALOT (55-95 mph), varying how I accelerated, and I picked it up with all of 5 miles on it, so it's just starting to break in. So in all, I expect that to go up over time, especially after break in, and when I'm actually using cruise control. We'll see what happens.

tslbmw · June 2007

I've got a little over a 1000 miles on my new Si and as I reported earlier, I got 24 mpg on the first tank, 31+ on the second, 25 on third and I just took a trip and I've got around 200 miles on this tank and I'm nowhere close to E yet. I would recommend checking your tire pressure if you haven't already and if they are all filled to the correct psi, visit your dealer.

Good luck.

aaronr121 · June 2007

I'm really curious why the milage is so bad. Hope the OP gets back to the thread and reports.

I think for the most part when I'm just cruising around though, I'm only hitting in the 3K range.

It isn't good to lug the engine though. That would hurt gas milage and the engine eventually.

redlantrn1 · June 2007

Hi:

Can anyone tell me how comfortable the seats are, especially when it comes to lumbar support. I can handle a stiff ride, but need a lot of lower back support. I was also curious as to the age of most people buying this car (just making sure I'm not too old !

thanks in advance for any input...

tayl0rd · June 2007

From my one-test-drive experience, the seats are wonderful. They felt nearly perfect to me. I wasn't in it long enough to get any lumbar fatigue, though. The thigh, side, and shoulder bolstering was great, though. With everything being held in place so well, I doubt that I'd encounter any lumbar problems.

aaronr121 · June 2007

Yes, the seats are actually really comfortable. I've done a 2 hour straight drive with no problems.

The ride is stiff, but not obnoxious at all. It is a choppy ride and you really only notice that on highways with expansion joints every 20' (like the east-west ext. of the PA turnpike.)

And I'm 35. I'm not sure how that fits into the age range of owners either.

blairspeed · June 2007

I've had my FA5 for almost a week now and I have 800+ miles on her. Its a blast to drive even coming from an EP3 with suspesion and 17s. I love the LSD and the stock suspension, its really nice and flat in the corners. The greatest thing though is being able to take 3 of your friends along for the ride with less weight effects then you might think.

I got mine in the silver and its honestly the only one I've seen in that color. Its also the only the 2nd Si sedan I've seen on the road period.

If you're in the market for a new car, dont test drive the Si sedan unless your ready to buy. lol :shades:

vviley · June 2007

I really like the seats. For not having a adjustable lumbar support - I feel Honda designed the seats well. I've taken a few 5-hr drives in it and didn't have to stop due to seat comfort issues, nor did I feel stiff when I got out. The only caveat I have to that is that I find the seats 'encourage' an upright sitting position. If I have the seat reclined much at all, the lumbar arch moves into a less pleasant position.

I'm 25 and 5'9" (but sit as high as someone a couple inches taller... curse my disproportionately short legs)

redlantrn · June 2007

Thanks a lot for all your input guys.
I haven't had a new car since 99' (Maxima SE), and am starting to get the itch.

barretthead · June 2007

the seats are the most comfortable in any car i have ever owned. while i am only 25 i have owned several autos and these seats are bar none the best. i agree that i feel i must sit more upright than in other seats, but still has maximum comfort. still loving the car.

aaronr121 · June 2007

FA5, EP3... OK you are speaking in code. I assume those are production/option codes for past SI models?

I've seen quite a few on the road lately. I've seen a woman driving a black 4 door about 5-6 times. I've seen about 6 (or so) other 4 doors as well. So, it seems like it's catching on in this area. Still, the 2 door SIs out number the 4 door.

blairspeed · June 2007

Yes, the FA5 = 07 Si sedan, EP3 = 02-05 Si Hatchback.

Im actually surprised considering I live in SoCal that I havent seen more Si sedans. The dealership where I bought mine (pacific honda) had like 5 FA5s on the lot but mine was the only silver. Im sure in the coming months as the word spreads, i'll see more.

kork13 · June 2007

I'll reply to a few of you at once... First, let me preface this that I'm taking my Si (bought it ~2 weeks ago with all of 5 miles on it), and right now I'm on a trip driving back to school in Colorado Springs from SW Oregon, total of about 1500 miles. I'm currently 1200 miles into the trip.

So Red, as for the seats, they're GREAT. I can drive for 5 hours straight without really getting at all uncomfortable in the seats. Also, I LOVE how they hug your sides. You feel it especially when you do some hard cornering, they hold you in place real well, and again, are VERY comfortable. Finally, one cool feature is that you can adjust the height of the seat by quite alot, so it's pretty open to how you want to sit.
Also, Red, I'm 20 yrs, a rising senior in college, and this was my first new car to buy myself.

Blair, I also have a silver one, and have only seen two other '07 Si's on the road with me. One black, one red.

Another thing I'd like to put on the board since I'm at it... someone was mentioning gas mileage earlier, and I'm kinda OCD about numbers like this, so I've tracked mine very carefully since I bought it. I've gotten about 25 MPG around town, and between 32-39 (!!!) MPG on the highway. If anybody is interested in long-drive performance, let me know.

aaronr121 · June 2007

39 mpg? Holy cow.

eldaino · June 2007

holy cow is right....i never broke 39 mpg on my regular 06 civic ex; k series engines are not exactly known for their fuel economy, this sounds waaaayyy to lofty, and i used to drive about 90% highway with little to no ac on mine.

with regards to seeing many si's, i live in nc and i see just the same amount of sedans as i do coupes, if not more.

Personally, unless you are hooked on the styling, i don't think there is a reason to get the coupe over the sedan, it just makes so much more sense. (some of the colors look fantastic on the sedan as well, such as the fiji blue, ralley red and habanero red.) and its nice being able to get a 4 door civic thats white on the outside with a dark interior for once!

nowakj66 · June 2007

I am 40 going on 41 considering the Si Sedan.

How do the others break down - ie age of owners and age of those considering.

kork13 · June 2007

I completely agree... it sounds impossible, but I've filled up 9 times so far, and 3 times I've gotten 37.16, 38.7, and 37.84. Also on the highway, I've gotten 28 (when it was brand spankin' new from the dealer, and b/w that and me playing with it alot, I expected it to be lower), 28.97 (with about 20-25% of it around town), and 32.99. When I fill up, it seems impossible, since the ratings are for 23 city/32 hwy, but I've gotten it multiple times. I always fill up to just over the click-off, but the thing that probably helps me most is that on the highway, I try to be as fuel-efficient as possible. Cruise control as often as possible, relatively slow accel/decel's, a/c fairly infrequently, and when I seem to be sticking with a certain car and the roads are clear (ex: I'm driving with a friend in a '00 vette right now), I pull in closer to draft off them a bit... kinda shady, and most people don't like it and will pull to the other lane, but when I find someone who doesn't mind (like my friend, with me for 1100mi of this 1500mi trip, so he helps alot), it's been really good for my mileage. Also, that time that I got the 38.7mpg, I was on state hwy's going only 63-ish, so that may have also had an impact.

I originally wanted the fiji blue REALLY BAD, and would have gotten it if my timetable had been more flexible, but I ended up with a silver one because I had to buy within a 3-week period, and there wasn't a blue available from the factory quite early enough for me. Oh well, she still looks GREAT.

Oh, also, I've only seen sedans, and I agree with eldaino... The sedan is SO worth it. $200 more, but the car is only like 2 inches longer (negative? maybe just barely), and you get a better wheel base too. The utility/ease of having those two doors for the back is huge. Having done this long drive, being able to easily store some things in the back seats has been very nice.

barretthead · June 2007

those are some impressive mpg numbers, i calculated just over 28mpg in all city driving on my first all conservative driving with over 1000 miles on the car. i was very pleased with those numbers and expect to see some impressive numbers for my highway miles as well. there is something that seems just right to me listening to XM channel 113 while the engine humms in the backround. i highly recommend it. got mine in nighthawk black pearl, had it narrowed down the that and the fiji blue, had both on the lot for me to choose from. i flip flop back and forth on which color looks better, they are both great.

tslbmw · June 2007

I am 33 and purchased my Si sedan three weeks ago. I have two young children (ages 4 & 2) and they fit in the back perfectly. I love the car!

redlantrn · June 2007

I finally took an opportunity to drive the SI sedan today. The car looks great from the outside, the seats are extremely comfortable, and the car accellerates and handles great.
Unfortunately, I don't think this is the car for me for reasons that have been mentioned by others. IMO there is too much silver plastic, the flimsy sun visors and the entire dash did not work for me (I.e styling,material quality).
At the same time it is a great car, and I can understand why alot of people have chosen this fine vehicle. With the rising cost of fuel, it's difficult to find a car that can give you a 50/50 compromise of performance and economy.
Keep this thread alive, as it was a great source of real world information for myself, and will continue to be for others.
Oh, by the way NOWAK, I'm 37 going on 27.

Thanks for all your help guys, I'm goingto push my walker over to the TSX forums......

nowakj66 · June 2007

Great! I have 2 children as well - 1.5 years and 3 years. I need the youngest to get to 20 pounds so I can go forward facing on her car seat!

Okay - anyone 40 or older that owns a Civic Si sedan or is considering one? Its one heck of a value!

mick16 · June 2007

I'm 36 and just picked up a black Si Sedan on Tuesday. I've already driven it 700 miles and I couldn't be happier with the purchase thus far. The car is fun to drive and gets decent mileage. The manual transmission on this car is excellent. The ease of shifting is vastly superior to the G35 Coupe or the Maxima SE that I previously drove. The seats are great too.

I test drove a Mazda 3 Grand Touring and while it was OK, it wasn't nearly as fun to drive and I doubt it will hang with the Civic when it comes to resale as well. For $22K out the door, its a great value.

About the only negative for me would be getting caught in the wrong gear in which case, the engine is anemic but some quick downshifting solves that problem. Upgrades I'd like to see offered are leather seats, Sirius, and nicer stock rims.

Also Honda - please ditch those VTEC stickers on the side of the car, I like the subtle Si badges on the front and back and don't need extra advertising on the car.

aaronr121 · June 2007

I think it could be possible to get mpg that high if it were nothing but highway miles and if they were spent at 60 with cruise and, I was gonna say, possibly staying in the draft of big rigs (ever see the episode of Mythbusters were they actually do an experiment on drafting?).

I've hit 32 mpg on trips that were mainly highway, and most of that with AC on traveling 70 mph with cruise. I bet it wouldn't take much to get a 35 mpg avg.

I'm just wondering, if filling it up just past click-off, could skew the results slightly higher?

Dude, the fiji blue is an awesome color. That was my 2nd choice over hab. red.

I also agree with you guys. The 4 door is really worth it. Barely a price difference over the coupe, hardly a weight penalty, more convienient and, in my opinion, these cars look so much better in 4 doors (and I usually hate 4 doors).

The door looks longer and lower in my opinion.

aaronr121 · June 2007

Glad to hear there are some older people, with kids buying this car, also. We have a 3 year old and another on the way. So the backseats are claimed by car seats for the next 5-7 years.

civiclove1 · June 2007

I bought this Civic SI/ 6 speed manual trans. in April 07. (LOVE THIS CAR) and have always noticed a kind of hesitation when accelerating in 1st and second gear. This happens more so when it is cold. I took it to the dealer and of course the dealer was unable to match the hesitation at that time. I'm using the proper fuel, 93 octane Shell gas and have tried Mobile with techron as well. This car runs strong but the hesitation is present sometimes more than others. I'm getting great gas milage and love everything about the car. I just want to see if by chance anyone else has experienced anything like what I'm experiencing.

gersi · June 2007

I'm 65 going on 18 wife is in her mid 50's. Got it to complement our 2006 auto corvette. Just had to get back to std shift. Sure hope the wife can learn to drive std or it will be trade in time.

cz75 · June 2007

Something in Honda's DBW/ECU programming that does that. I haven't really noticed it warm.

eldaino · June 2007

the hesitation you notice is the drive by wire programming standard on all civics nowadays.

most people find it annoying (especially tuners) and its only super evident on the manual transmission civics.

i find it very interesting that there are so many older (well older than me i mean, i'm 22) folks driving the si. Quick question to all; is this your first honda, or more importantly your first si? everyone can be familiar with a brand, but to be familiar with the performance model and its heritage is a very different thing and i'm curious to know who is familiar and who isn't. (case in point: the distaste in the i-vtec decal, leave it on there, wear it proud, there is lots of heritage behind that sticker!

)

the first si sedan i ever saw on the road and not on the dealers lot was a very lovely ralley red; and it was being driven by a gentleman who could not have been younger than 45.

tslbmw · June 2007

eldaino,
I'm 11 years your elder and no, this is not my first Honda. When I graduated from college in 96, I purchased a brand new 1996 Prelude Si VTEC (the first Prelude with the VTEC technology, in 97 and thereon VTEC was in all of the Preludes til they stopped making them). I have never owned a Civic Si and was very happy when Honda decided to make a 4dr model. It allowed those my age and a lot older to enjoy the high revving 2.0 engine and still be able to transport the family. It truly is a great car and for the money, IMO, it can't be beat.

btw, I'm with you, I really dig the iVTEC decals!

tfm1973 · June 2007

I've had my Rallye Red Civic Si Sedan for a week now. Just a great car. I'm 34 with a baby on the way so it's the best compromise for me. Fun to drive, safe, rear doors and seats for the baby. No complaints whatsoever.

I may be in the small minority but I peeled off the silly i-VTEC stickers off the sides. Took nearly an hour since some adhesive didn't wanna come off. But much cleaner look.

I don't need to advertise to every rice boy out there in their mom's Camry looking to race. Plus doesn't every car manufacturer use some form of VTEC now?

civiclove1 · June 2007

So you have also experienced this hesitation, particularly when the car is cold? The Drive by Wire/ECU programming is the issue. After reading that this car has DBW, I'm not to familiar with the Drive by wire function.

civiclove1 · June 2007

I'm 35 and have always been a Civic fan. I owned an EX in 2000 Auto trans. and didn't have the 160 hp SI that year because they didn't have the color I wanted when I bought it. I drove a friend of mines 1999 5 speed SI and it ran just like my 2000 EX with more punch of course. No hesitation. This DBW, what is the purpose of this? Do you own the New SI with DBW as well / 2 or 4 door? I'm assuming you experience this hesitation as well. Thanks for your reply.

kork13 · June 2007

aaron, I don't think that the slight top off does anything to the mileage... i always fill it to about 1/4 gal over the click-off, so as long as it's consistent, it shouldn't affect it... i think...

eldaino, like I said ealier, I'm 20 years old and a senior in college. This is my first honda (actually my first car at all), but my parents owned an early-90's model of the Accord a long time ago... I'm largely unfamiliar with any brand, let alone a certain model... I'm only now becoming more familiar with cars, and particularly the Si's, as I've been researching cars for the last 7-ish months.

And yea, I agree with you and some of the others... I like the i-vtech sticker on the side... at first I didn't, but it's grown on me. If you've got it, flaunt it. :shades:

blairspeed · June 2007

Im 28yrs old and my last car was an 02 Civic si hatchback which I also bought new. Ive had my silver Si Sedan (FA5)for about 10 days now and I couldnt be happier. Its a fantastic car for the money and Im loving the gas mileage. It actually gets better mileage then my 02 Si did, I was shocked. Having 4 doors is really nice too and most of the time you dont even realize its a 4 door until you look behind you.

I do notice the hesitation on the gas pedal when going from a stop. The pedal just doesnt register quick enough and you end up engaging the clutch too quickly before it starts to rev. Also when you want to ride the revs down instead of using the brakes, the car doesnt decelerate right away. It holds the revs (aka Rev Hang) causing the car to continue to accelerate when your foot is off the pedal for a split second. It was very annoying at first but the more I drive it the more I learn to adjust to it.

kork13 · June 2007

Just a random thought, while browsing a couple other forums, I noticed a few people mention fuel economy and tire pressure in the same breath. I was just curious if anyone knew about what sort of relationship there was between the two? I know that if your tires are 5-6 psi low, you'll take a hit in economy, but what about being 5-6 over? Or sticking right at the recommended?

aaronr121 · June 2007

Running with low tire pressure will decrease gas milage, more rolling resistance. You can increase tire pressure to create less resistance, but if you over or under-inflate tires, it will cause premature wear and a possiblity of over heating the tires and cause a blow-out.

Best bet, follow the recommended tire pressure. For long stretches of highway, and highspeed, driving there probably is a higher recommended pressure. You'd have to look that up in the owners manual and see what Honda recomends.

Kork, I just asked about over filling, becuase it could cause an inconsistency. If one time you fill to the 1st click, then squeeze in an extra .5-1 gallon of gas. Then stop 150 miles later, refuel and stop at the first click, and don't add any more fuel, it would look like you barely used any fuel at all. It could skew the numbers higher or lower.

Regarding the hesitation, I've noticed it on warm-up also. But I just chalked it up to owning a vehicle with an aluminum motor. Aluminum expands alot when it gets hot. So, until it reaches operating temps nothing is meshing as it should. My take anyway...

On odd occasions, I hit a slight stumble pulling out in 1st gear. But I think that's more driver related than anything. I feel the same thing driving our 2.0, manual, New Beetle on odd occasions. And that still has a throttle cable. Just a 4 banger that's not particular torquey at low RPMs.

Honda Civic Si Sedan

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