Honda Fit

vcarreras · March 2005

http://asia.vtec.net/Series/FitJazz/lseries/index.html

Here's some engine info I found on the L series which powers the Fit/Jazz.

Does anyone know what Honda will show at the NY Auto Show?

tnash · March 2005

Not to be a wet blanket about rick's pictures, but does it look to anyone else like the windshield wiper blades in picture #1 are pointing the wrong way for a left hand drive car? None of the pictures give any clear indication of where the wheel is, and that one picture is the only one where I can see any indication of left or right hand drive. I still think it's a very cool car, and I hope it is coming here, I'm just pointing out what I see.

redtoby · March 2005

I owned one of those Civic hatchbacks with 70 hp, and it was a great little car--for 1985 which spoiled me for other cars. I am now 63 and am looking for a small comfortable 4-door hatchback that gets excellent mileage with a stick shift/automatic option, with good safety (side airbags) and a bigger space that the Civic trunk for a lawn mower & keeps up with traffic & is quiet. The 4-door is necessary because my companions that would ride with me cannot get into the 2-door hatchback anymore. It sounds like the new version of the Honda Fit/Jazz might do. When will it be available in the U.S.? I presently have a 1992 Volvo 740 station wagon which is a little too large and masculine; it had been my husbands. I am ready for an update. Keep me posted on this car and its release. I like the looks of the Honda CVT?, even the 4-wheel drive since I have to go up my mother's lane during the winter, but I would prefer a vehicle that gets better gas mileage.

mebman · March 2005

I have been waiting for this car to come to the US for 2 years! I travel a lot, and have seen this car in the UK. Honda is excruciatingly slow to do anything new in the American market. They have many other really cool cars, but sell them only outside the US. It really is beyond me why the US is always the last to get a new model car unless it is as big as a house then we are first in line.
The latest info that I have is that this car will be available early in 2006 as an 07' model. That is just too long.
Toyota is bringing a redesigned Yaris hatch that is very similar to the Fit in features, styling and gas mileage. (called the Vitz in Japan) http://toyota.jp/vitz/exterior/bodycolor/index.html At 2$ a gallon for gas the first car manufacture to mass produce an affordable efficient hatchback that gets 40 mpg will get rich.

odman · March 2005

I agree with your comments on the Fit, and I felt the same way when it looked like we might get the Stream -- it took forever and I've given up.

The new Vitz should be coming to Canada (where the current one is selling extremely well). I wish Honda would hurry up with the Jazz to give the Echo hatch some real competition.

fdanna · March 2005

oh I want a rasberry Vitz :-)

But seriously folks, they must do these focus groups in Wyoming or South Dakota because anything that comes to the US is so dumbed down and boring that the fun is completely sucked out.

I'll be in the market for a new car in 2006 and I'm watching Scion, Toyota, and Honda. The requirement that has to be met is that it must get better mileage than my current car (crappy ford focus, 29mpg) and have cruise control (hurry up Scion!!). The problem is, despite gas prices, engines just get bigger and bigger with each model year. 2.4L seems to be the big thing now.

I just want me car to LOOK really fast, but not necessarily be fast :-)

dudleyr · March 2005

Actually those of us in South Dakota are not sitting in traffic jams with our dumbed down automatic trannies. We have well maintained lightly traveled roads that don't require the squishy American suspensions. We have plenty of open space and 75 mph speed limits, so we could use the tall gearing of European cars. We have to drive long distances to get places so we could use the better fuel economy of European cars.

; ^ )

I think the traffic gridlock of LA and NY are setting the pace for focus groups, and the "dumbing down" of European cars.

strager · March 2005

I gave up on Honda a few years ago, after waiting for a Civic 5 door, then the Fit, then the Stream.

Nissan has 3 cars coming out next year, rumored to be the Cube, Sentra, and a new hatchback. Toyota already has several hatchbacks and more on the way.

Is it that difficult for Honda to understand that not everyone wants a boring Civic sedan or a Buicky Accord in the Honda boring color collection?

qbrozen · March 2005

are you specifically talking about 5-doors? Because Honda has had the Civic Si hatch for a few years now. From what I understand, its their worst seller, so what incentive do they have to give us more hatches?

backy · March 2005

Um, maybe sell a hatch someone will actually buy, one that is useful for a larger number of people--as in one with five doors.

qbrozen · March 2005

uhhh... yeah ... that's why i asked strager if he/she was talking about 5-doors, because the post simply said "hatches."

Honda used to have the Accord wagon. They stopped offering it here because it wasn't selling. Its tough to make a business argument for something you've already tried and failed with, ya know?

On the other hand, the Mazda3 5-door, I believe, seems to be doing fairly well. Go figure. Us american buyers are a fickle bunch.

backy · March 2005

Ten years is a long time (since the Accord wagon). There has been a resurgence in the 5-door hatchback market in the past few years. Look at all the new hatch models in that time: Matrix/Vibe, Elantra, Reno, Aerio, Mazda3, Spectra5, Rio Cinco, Focus ZX5, Malibu Maxx etc. Honda needs to wake up and get the Fit over here--and the 5-door Civic would be nice too.

fdanna · March 2005

Fair enough, but I was talking about styling not driving. Actually, the focus handling is pretty on par with its euro cousin, but it was cheapened to lower the price... and then ford quality sucks big time anyway.

I highly doubt many people in middle and mid-western america want anything to do with cars smaller than an Accord. You may be an exception to the rule, but that IS the rule.

backy · March 2005

Depends on what you mean by "many". I live in the Midwest, albeit in a large city, and there's lots of compacts here. Lots of minivans, trucks, and SUVs too, but small cars are pretty popular--many, many Foci, Corollas, Civics, Elantras, Sentras, Cavaliers, IONs, among others.

brazuca · March 2005

Hi....I just came back from Brazil and the Honda Fit is selling very well...it costs a couple of thousand dollars less than the Civic sedan. Be aware that Honda and Toyota are new in that market (4 Years only) and the Fit is selling a lot because it's a very practical vehicle. Toyota only sells the Corolla sedan and wagon, therefore, at this point they don't have another vehicle to compete. I personally have a Toyota Matrix AWD and it's been a very nice car so far.

dewaltdakota · March 2005

A domestic response that may garner some attention is the 2007 5door hatchback Dodge Caliber, starting at $13,985. The auto is a CVT, and with A/C, you get a cooler in the glovebox!

The rear seats both recline and fold flat, and the passenger seat can fold forward, for a "long" transport option. The driver's seat is also adjustable in height. Not quite "magic" seats, but it's something.

There's also the option of Sirius Satellite and/or a navigation system.

Oh yeah, and you can get it with AWD.

For its size, I would say it's more of a competitor for the Civic, so it'll be interesting to see how well it does.

strager · March 2005

"are you specifically talking about 5-doors?"

In my post, I specifically said 5 door Civic.

The Civic Si hatch: manual transmission, 3 doors, and MSRP of $19K. Who would buy that?

Toyota has the Matrix, Prius, xA, xB, all 5 door hatchbacks, of which only the xA doesn't sell that well. So now Honda wants to sell a xA sized Fit. Someone at American Honda is asleep at the wheel.

backy · March 2005

Are you sure the Fit is xA-sized? In the reviews I've read, the back seat of the Fit is quite roomy, and the ride is good for a small car--both unlike the xA.

strager · March 2005

I've actually sat in a Fit while visiting Japan, and even though the interior seating is very flexible and a little roomier than the xA, the exterior dimensions are the same as the Fit.

The Fit will sell better than the xA, imho, but Honda is thinking that one size fits all. What about people who would like a Civic sized hatchback?

backy · March 2005

Maybe Honda figures that's where the CR-V and Element come in. But they don't, IMO.

dudleyr · March 2005

Compared to the fit the CRV and Element are monstrous guzzlers. They would even be guzzlers compared to an Accord wagon.

Honda does not get it, but most consumers don't either. Maybe the higher gas prices will bring people around.

makabe · March 2005

I have a 1991 Civic Wagon which I consider to be the holy grail of small cars, and I will gladly replace it with the Fit if it comes out in the US. The bottom line for me is that interior dimension-wise, the Fit matches up to the 1991 Civic in many important areas, and beats it hands down in others. For example, the Fit will measures 67.7" from the back of the front seat to rear hatch where the 1991 Civic wagon is only about 62". Also, the Fit has a lower floor and higher roof so the overall cargo volume is higher as well. If you've ever put cargo in a 1991 Civic wagon, you would know that this car holds so much stuff that onlookers eyes bug out when they see it, and this is the same as the Fit. The Scion xA does not have nearly the cargo volume of the Fit even though it is about the same size. Also, the Fit is only 151.4" long--10 inches shorter than the Civic Wagon which means easier parking. The Fit also gets higher gas mileage.

Honda--I want the Fit, NOW!!!!

hungarian83 · March 2005

Also, the seats of the Jazz/Fit can be put into four different positions, which adds to the flexiblity of the cargo area.
The distance between the floor and the ceiling (according to the Honda Japan website) is bigger than the CR-V, Element, and MDX, even though those vehicles are taller. Although the floor is low, the driver sits rather high up, since they are sitting over the fuel tank, which was pushed forward when the car was designed.
The Jazz had a rating of 4/5 stars in the Euro/NCAP crash test. Out of the more than 50 cars tested in the category, only 2 have 5/5 star ratings. Also, based on the more stringent test ratings, the Jazz and the new 2005 Suzuki Swift (European model) were the only ones to achieve 3/4 ratings for pedestrian safety. Of course, these test are assumed for collisions between small cars. So Honda used their crash test center and conducted a collision between the Jazz/Fit and the Legend (US: Acura RL). The Jazz actually performered very well considering the size and weight of the Legend.

Question: When Americans speak of not liking small cars because of the "big cars on the road", are they refering to the large commercial trailers and lorries that move around the country, or the huge SUVs like Ford Excursion and GM Suburban?

strager · March 2005

I had a '88 Civic wagon for 9 years before reluctantly getting a Civic sedan. I agree 100%: the Civic wagon was the holy grail of small cars.

Having given up on Honda, for me the holy grail is my newly acquired Scion xB: HUGE interior, 155" long, high gas mileage, and about 65" from the back of the front seat to the rear hatch. In other words, very similar to the Civic wagon. Keep in mind that the 151.4" length of the Fit that you mention is without US standard bumpers.

If you are OK with the styling of the xB, then it could be an excellent replacement for your 91 Civic wagon.

qbrozen · March 2005

yes, i saw that line, but then i saw this one:
Is it that difficult for Honda to understand that not everyone wants a boring Civic sedan

and just wanted to make sure you weren't overlooking the hatch that is in their lineup. So, now that that's cleared up .... moving on.

makabe · March 2005

The xB is very attractive from a versatility standpoint, but I guess I'm just not hip enough to appreciate its very distinctive lines--style-wise, it's not for me. What kind of mileage to you get with your xB? The epa numbers are 31/35 for the manual.

I don't know how much the bumpers on the Fit would have to change for the US market given that a car only needs 2.5 MPH bumpers these days.

strager · March 2005

I drive my xB auto 90% city and get about 26 mpg, in the summer with A/C it's about 24. On the freeway the range is 36-38 mpg.

Initially my family hated the xB's styling, but as they have come to appreciate it's uniqueness and vast interior, the styling has grown on them.

To me, the xB is less about being hip, and more about practicality.

fdanna · March 2005

Yes, the US standard is only 2.5 but Canada is still 5 and it would not be cost effective to manufacture two different models for North America.

Aside from just bumpers, the emissions standars are different, location of side marker lights is different, the aim of the headlights is different (no biggie). In europe a directional signal on the fender is mandatory, and rear directionals must only be amber, never red. European cars dont' have parking lights, they have "city lights" that glow white. The yellow blinkers are never lit except when turning. Ever take a look at the FMVSS? It's insanely long and a manufacturer has to meet them all.

If you have a more expensive car, like a Mercedes or even VW, you can build one car that has mostly all the same features. But when you're building an economy car, you'll want to delete anything that is not required by the standard (like rear fog lights).

nellike · March 2005

I'm glad I found this forum while searching for Jazz/Fit info. I love my 97 Accord wagon but I've driven it about 150,000 miles... so I'm probably going to need to add a car to the household--for my daughter as well as to preserve the Accord; I don't want to drive it into the ground and it is truly irreplaceable (in the US at least).

My Accord replaced the very first Civic 4WD wagon (1985) which I also adored, and that car replaced a 74 Civic hatchback. So there is a lot of history here. All cars have had manual transmissions and all, even the Accord, have averaged 30-40 mpg (the Accord drops to 23-24 with AC on in city driving). The first two were retired due to rust and crumbling bodies more than anything else.

Until I read rumors about the Fit I despaired about finding a fourth Honda that meets my obvious requirements. Perhaps members here can help me with two things: first, how accurate are the couple of statements from American Honda that the Fit is arriving within a year, and second, those of you who own Scions, Matrixes etc.--how have they compared in terms of reliability to any Hondas you've owned? I'm sure they're fun to drive, but for me mechanical soundness is more important. Thanks, all.

strager · March 2005

To my knowledge, Honda has officially confirmed that the Fit will be here next year. I've read several articles to that effect, and its clear that Honda can't surrender this small car market to Scion and the new Nissan small cars expected next year.

My Scion xB, the same size as a Civic wagon has been in production in Japan for the last 5 years as the Toyota bB. I would like to think that any Toyota, particularly a model that has been sold mostly in Japan for 5 years is about as reliable as you can get.

Given a choice between the Fit (which I checked out on a visit to Japan) and the Scion xB, I would still choose the xB because the xB is a lot roomier, like a limo.

micweb · April 2005

There is a dealer operated website with two short paragraphs of juicy, and probably accurate (they are a dealer!) information about the Fit. I was going to cut and paste, but the posting is so short it would have been in excess of "fair use."

georget · April 2005

Good post for April 1st

If you are refering to the HondaPreview.com article from 1/26/05, it's old news.

mebman · April 2005

I just got another email from Honda touting their new Ridgeline. "Born to tow"!
This thing gets 16 mpg! Gas is approaching 2.5 dollars /gallon, when are the car manufactures going to get it?
We need more fuel efficient car options and we need them NOW! The rest of the world has had the Honda Jazz for 3 years, and we dont get it in the U.S. because consumers just keep on buying gas guzzlers every time we go to the dealer.
I will not buy another car that doesnt get at least 40 mpg. If only 25% of my fellow Americans would make the same patriotic commitment, gas prices would fall, and we would stop funding the coffers of people in the Middle East who would like to do bad things to America. Bring the Honda Jazz/FIT to the US NOW. Dont wait for a new model. This is indeed a matter of our country's economy and national security!

georget · April 2005

I could not agree with you more, Mebman. We need more fuel efficient cars! Why should we give the Middle East this much political and economic power over our lives? I would love to see America propose a long term goal of energy independence. I am a huge fan of space exploration, but instead of spending the next ten years and a TRILLION dollars on sending a man to Mars, we should build solar and wind farms. I think the government could even give tax breaks on vehicles that get over 40 mpg. If every family had a small, cheap to buy, cheap to operate car like the Honda Fit which could be used for their daily commute, and use their 7 passenger SUV only when they needed it, America's fuel usage would drop dramatically!

I read an article in Motor Trend last week titled "Momentum Shifting in U.S. Auto Industry" It talks about the US car companies loosing market share to foreign car companies. But what blew me away was "GM officials won't confirm it, but the plant is being retooled to assemble the next generation of Chevrolet Tahoe, GMC Yukon and Cadillac Escalade SUVs in 2006 -- and officials expect sales of the vehicles to increase dramatically."

If we continue to purchases these gas-guzzling behemoths, well, I guess you know the rest of the story.

dudleyr · April 2005

One more in agreement here.

It will be a tough road though - SUV's make so much profit, and are advertised so heavily that people will be slow to change their minds. After all, you never know when you will suddenly find yourself driving up a boulderstrewn hill during a snow storm on your way to the hospital.

claudius753 · April 2005

I my self owned a 4.0l I6 Jeep Wrangler at one point, it was a fun vehicle but not fun to fill with gas. My other cars have all been I4s.

I agree that we need to reduce consumption of gasoline while alternative methods of powering vehicles are found. Personally I like the idea of bio-diesel and ethanol which could be renewable.

The major problem to reducing usage is there are not many vehicles which focus on it. We have the Hybrids now, which are selling well. Either because of the fuel economy or else just for the chic aspect of owning one.

When the Fit arrives it will be one of the only small, fuel efficient vehicles that has a boatload of usable space for its size. The Scion xA and xB are here, but have funky styling. I the Fit will sell well when it arrives especially with gasoline nearing the $2.50 mark. I think that with the Fit more people will consider smaller cars with roomy interiors such as hatchbacks over an SUV.

There is another Honda model, I think it is called the FRV, alongside the Fit would round out Honda's lineup nicely. I just hope Honda hurries up and brings those models here, then maybe other manufacturers would be more willing to bring their own small economical cars here.

vcarreras · April 2005

Today Honda came out with the Airwave (Fit Wagon) in Japan. With a 1.5L and 7 speed CVT I would think it would give great MPG. Anyone know if this could be our FIT or will it stay in Japan?

http://www.honda.co.jp/AIRWAVE/

I would think it would compete very well against the Scion.

nwng · April 2005

are you sure it's fit based? it looks like a shortened jdm odyssey w/o the 3rd row

vcarreras · April 2005

Look back around Posts 343-350. rickc310 saw it in California during a photo session. He stated that it is small about 18" longer then the standard Fit with 13" wheels. The Airwave movie gives some indication that it is small..room for 4 with cargo. Note from the movie that there is no rear bumper. Would think a NA version would have a rear bumper with the license plate higher. The Airwave pictured has RHD with California plates.

gwido · April 2005

It is also mentioned on Inside Line

nwng · April 2005

I just posted in another board it's accord based. When I looked at the interior shots, it looked exactly like the na accord and the back seats looked kind of wide...

anyways, as with most great jdm hondas, we won't be getting it, right?

hungarian83 · April 2005

Actually, I am pretty sure it is Jazz-based. Although the Airwave is considerably longer than the Jazz/Fit, it is only 5mm (1/5 inch) wider than the Fit Aria and 40mm (1,56 inches) longer, which as we all know is undisputably Jazz-based.
While the Accord wagon (which already exists...there would be no reason for another one) is 400mm (15,6 inches) longer than the Airwave.

Using the interior features of the NA Accord to compare is probably not the best way to determine the origin of this Japanese model.
The Airwave might appear to have a few styling features of the Accord, particularly because most of the pictures so far are with the wheels that look like small Accord wheels. However, the body structure is much closer to the Fit Aria (shorter hood and body relative to vehicle height). The Airwave also has the ULTR seats found in the Jazz/Fit, as well as the fuel tank located underneath the front seat.

This vehicle is too small to be Accord derived.
Compare the Airwave to the Fit Aria, and the similarities are quite noticeable.

texas_jazz · April 2005

The Canadian don't be too optimistic about the gas mileage. The small efficient engine will have better gas mileage in the warmer climate South of Canada like U.S. I use to have a Honda 450 motorcycle, in Summer I got 68 mpg in winter I got only 52 mpg. Since Canada the climate is on the cool side all year, you will have to deduct 10% on your MPG as advertised. The smaller the engine, the temperture effect more on the performance.

vcarreras · April 2005

Here is

http://world.honda.com/news/2005/4050407.html

Honda's Press release on the Airwave. You'd think this would be our FIT. Guess time will tell.

claudius753 · April 2005

If that's our Fit, then I think Honda is rolling out a huge loser in the US market. I wouldn't drive that thing. Not a compact hatch, thats a compact Mini Van.

Honda wants to compete with the Scion xA and xB. Both those have funky styling and are small looking on the outside. The Airwave looks like a mini van, and boring, not at all like the Fit or Jazz. Please Honda, don't bring that nere and expect to bring in young customers. You will fail and make other companies less likely to bring good small cars.

jchan2 · April 2005

I think Honda should bring it over now, especially with gas prices sky-rocketing. How many do you think they could sell if gas went to $3.50 a gallon?

dudleyr · April 2005

Bring it here!

autonuts · April 2005

It would be great to have this small wagon over here. If it does well in the front and side crash tests by IIHS, then it's a no brainer for me!!!

jazvan · April 2005

"The Japanese market will get a new tall minivan, based on the Honda Fit. The Airwave will feature a skyroof that stretches from the windshield to the back window. There is an electric sunshade that can be positioned in three different sizes. The subcompact is powered by a 1.5-liter VTEC four mated to a CVT automatic transmission. Though Honda has no public plans to ship this to the U.S., were sure Honda will be watching Mazda5 sales. Airwave is a great Transformer name." From a well-known autoblog.

The real problem bringing the Airwave over here is that Honda makes a good profit on Odysseys, Elements and CR-V's. You are supposed to buy those. Honda has the goods, but no reason to mess with their profitable line-up.

-Jaz

mebman · April 2005

Well I have a CRV and I'm done doing what I'm supposed to. I have been waiting for over 2 years for the Fit, and I will trade in my CRV for a fit the day that it arrives! I have been a honda buyer for 15 years, and if all they have to offer in the future is more of the same then I have bought my last Honda.
With gas pushing $2.50/gallon I refuse to buy another car that gets less than 40 mpg!

Honda Fit

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