BMW 335i 2007+

jmaroun · January 2008

I'd appreciate your thoughts.

My 330i lease is comming up speadilly (in September) and
over the last few years I've been contemplating the possibilities of
what my replacement car would be. This 330i being my first BMW
you may understand how impressed I am especially given that my previous
cars have been the following (1990 Mitshibishi Eclypse, Mercury Sable, and Toyota Camry). Yes, I'm pretty much sold on the performance sedan/coupe
ideal and now find that I can't settle for anything less than the performance,
precission, and refinement of my 330i. Infact, my standards have not only improved, but it seems that a lust inside has even taken over. In typical American fashion, I want More. I want the ultimate car next time round.

I've taken a look at the miriad of cars being offered this time around and for one reason or other have been displeased. http://www.carspace.com/blogs/enthusiastsdilemma08

Here's what I believe would be a good attempt to satisfy my auto-enthusiast needs..at least for the next three years or so:

335i
- Sedan <- Cheaper, More Practical, Same Performance
- Sports Package
- Aerokit

Or

335i Convertible
- Dina n ECU $2k <-- compensate extra weight
- Dina n Oil Cooler $2k <--- for reliability reasons
- Aerokit

------------------
I figure Dinan's ECU remap would compensate for the extra weight of the Vert.
Problem with the vert is that I fear the extra weight would significantly diminish the driving experience (road feel, feedback, handling). Any thoughts on how much of a hit the vert will toll in this regard?

I'm not sure if I'll pick manual or steptronic. I enjoying the steptronic so much on
my current 330i that I'm believe I'd miss it if I got the manual this time. Especially in California traffic.

I appreciate sincere are respectful comments, suggestions, opinions..

Thanks,

Joseph
San Diego

fedlawman · January 2008

In my opinion, the 335i convertible with Steptronic sounds like a good choice for you. From everything I've heard, it's got a great mix of sportiness, refinement, and luxury.

Also, if I were in your shoes, I'd pass on the Sport Package and Dinan upgrades. I don't think you need them.

jmaroun · January 2008

Uh,..no

I hope you'll enjoy your non-Sport packaged 3 series..but
that would never do for me. Sounds like you'd be content
with a Buick's sportiness.

Joseph
San Diego
http://www.carspace.com/blogs/enthusiastsdilemma08

nkeen · January 2008

There's some difference between a 335i regardless of configuration, and a Buick, I think, whatever the merits of the either may be (and I think there's a place for both).

flightnurse · January 2008

regarding the 335i here is link for you to look at http://www.vishnutuning.com/bmw_335i.htm the power they can get out of that Twin Turbo engine is amazing and for the price is far better then what Dina can do for less money..

tony

jmaroun · January 2008

Thanks for the info!

Is Vishnutuning 50 states legal? Also, will their modification void the warranty?
Dinan doesn't void the BMW warranty I believe but is only legal in 49 states (emissions testing for California, I believe, are underway).

Joseph
San Diego
my blog: http://www.carspace.com/blogs/enthusiastsdilemma08

fedlawman · January 2008

"I hope you'll enjoy your non-Sport packaged 3 series..but
that would never do for me. Sounds like you'd be content
with a Buick's sportiness."

Why does what I might like have anything to do with your desire for opinions/advice?

In all of your recent posts, you discuss at length the relative merits of a number of very desirable GT cars, and you find a way to be disappointed with each and every one. In fact, your so enlightened, you didn't even have to drive them to know they suck!

You dislike the new M3 because it has numb steering (???), is ugly, and gets poor gas mileage. Then you state that a 335i with a Dinan chip has basically the same performance as the E92 M3. OK, I have a pretty good idea of what kind of driver/enthusiast you are. Now you tell us that you currently live in San Diego and drive a slushbox equipped 330i - and you're thinking about a 335i convertible. Fine, makes sense to me. The drop top already has several strikes against it from a performance standpoint (weight, chassis integrity, slushbox, etc.) but that's OK, there's a magic $2000 computer chip will fix all that!

You've written volumes about what an enthusiast you are, but you have never once mentioned a single handling dynamic trait. Tell me, why is the SP so important to you? Wouldn't a LSD be a better investment than an aerodynamic styling package? Maybe you think a rear lip spoiler will make a 4000 lb convertible handle as well as your current 3400 lb sedan?

Dude, you need to put down the car magazines and go test drive some of these cars that you think suck so bad. Better yet, take a BMWCCA driving school or two and learn something about vehicle dynamics - because right now, I can almost guarantee that if you brought a Dinan 335i to the track, you'd be breathing Buick exhaust fumes all day long.

jmaroun · January 2008

I told you before,..I don't want nor need your advice.

Move On and learn some respect. You're on ignore.

Joseph
San Diego
blog: http://www.carspace.com/blogs/enthusiastsdilemma08

roadburner · January 2008

Dude, you need to put down the car magazines and go test drive some of these cars that you think suck so bad. Better yet, take a BMWCCA driving school or two and learn something about vehicle dynamics - because right now, I can almost guarantee that if you brought a Dinan 335i to the track, you'd be breathing Buick exhaust fumes all day long.

My sentiments exactly! I'd estimate that 90% of BMW drivers cannot exploit even 75% of a non-sport BMW's ability, yet they will spend several grand "improving" their new Sport Package 3er.
"Yeah, got a 335i Sport. Dinan tune and oil cooler. Really fast. I took it up to 120 on the interstate once. I even took a 35 mph on-ramp at 50!What? Take it on the track? No way, man- I'd probably get some rock chips on the spoiler and the brake dust on the wheels would be a real pain to clean off."

nyccarguy · January 2008

I saw a Montego Blue 335i SP on my way to work today. Sweet Color Combo.

jmaroun · January 2008

track??? Come on. Most folk buy a car for transportation.
An enthusiast, in my definition, is someone who does the above but also appreciates the ride. I'm a driver, and in bmw's words, I want a driver's car. Now, I know there are various degrees of driving. Racing is NOT one that I participate in..Neither on the track nor on the road. Some folks do, and that's fine and dandy..but to be en enthusiast, in my opinion has nothing to do with how fast someone goes.

I'd rate myself as an average driver. I enjoy the driving experience on roads that I use on the way to do something. Like most folk, I don't drive for the sake of driving, but I do want to enjoy the drive when I do. And on the way, I encounter what everyone else encounters.. freeways, cars and trucks.. You know. And I enjoy the feel of the road, an occational spirited sprint down an empty accelleration lane or path. Simple shh.. Very rarely do I go above 85mph in fact. Most of my driving infact is below 75mph.

Drive feel matters to me. I want to feel the road and love how my 330i with newer wheels feels. It's as though the car were on rails. I enjoy accellerating to rational speeds, rapidly when and as I command. I'd rather not be restricted to a car's limitations. So, it's good that I can't tap the limits of a car..I want the car to achieve my limits when I want it to.

Given that I don't really drive fast nor do I race, but I enjoy the feel of driving and enjoy spirited accelleration according to my tastes; I think it's clear that a car with good handling and steering feel is important. Also alot of HP isn't as impressive or important as Low end torque is. A manual transmission would enable me to tap an engine's optimal power band at low speed, but then again so does a manumatic like bmw's steptronic.

Ok..that about it.

Joseph
San Diego
blog: http://www.carspace.com/blogs/enthusiastsdilemma08

fedlawman · January 2008

"90% of BMW drivers cannot exploit even 75% of a non-sport BMW's ability, yet they will spend several grand "improving" their new Sport Package 3er."

Well, I won't respond directly since I'm "on ignore" right now...

I will say that, come September, there's going to be one very happy BMW salesman in San Diego dancing a jig..."I can see you're a true enthusiast - for you, I recommend the Turbonator with Tornado Air System and MSD Super Conductor spark plug wires, and a Slick 50 engine flush. My manager has a 335i just like yours and he got a 21 HP gain along with a 3 MPG boost in fuel economy." :P

roadburner · January 2008

track??? Come on. Most folk buy a car for transportation.

That's why "most folk" buy Camrys, minivans, and SUVs.

Racing is NOT one that I participate in..Neither on the track nor on the road. Some folks do, and that's fine and dandy..but to be en(sic) enthusiast, in my opinion has nothing to do with how fast someone goes.

Who said anything about racing? I'm talking about driving schools such as those conducted by BMW CCA chapters. You will actually learn how to drive -not just operate- your car. And San Diego is an especially active CCA chapter.

I'd rate myself as an average driver.

I'm not surprised.

You know.(sic) And I enjoy the feel of the road, an occational(sic) spirited sprint down an empty accelleration(sic) lane or path. Simple shh.. (sic) Very rarely do I go above 85mph in fact. Most of my driving infact(sic) is below 75mph.

Then why do you need the Dinan power upgrades? And an oil cooler? Maybe because they look/sound cool?

Drive feel matters to me. I want to feel the road and love how my 330i with newer wheels feels. It's as though the car were on rails.

I'm intrigued by those "newer wheels". Just exactly how did they improve the "feel"? Did they firm up the transient response? Increase lateral grip? I'm assuming you went plus one or plus two with appropriate rubber, otherwise what you are feeling is the placebo effect.

So, it's good that I can't tap the limits of a car..

Agreed. That is a very wise choice.

I want the car to achieve my limits when I want it to.

Then a 335i with the Sport package is really overkill for you. How about a Mini Cooper S? Really.

Given that I don't really drive fast nor do I race, but I enjoy the feel of driving and enjoy spirited accelleration(sic) according to my tastes; I think it's clear that a car with good handling and steering feel is important.

Well no, it's not clear- but if you say so...

Also alot(sic) of HP isn't as impressive or important as Low end torque is.

And you need the Dinan reflash and oil cooler because?

A manual transmission would enable me to tap an engine's optimal power band at low speed, but then again so does a manumatic like bmw's(sic) steptronic.

Cool! Still, based on your self-described mission profiles, I'd say the automatic is the optimum choice for you.

jmaroun · January 2008

Whatever,

You're on ignore too.

Moderators..please keep a watch and ban these two guys..they're constantly dishing personal attatcks.

Can we talk about cars now???

Joseph
San Diego
blog: http://www.carspace.com/blogs/enthusiastsdilemma08

cdnpinhead · January 2008

". . .ban these two guys. . ."

Fat chance.

"These two guys" have been making interesting and/or helpful posts on these boards for years & have developed considerable credibility over that period of time. They, like several of us, abhor (look it up) poseurs.

circlew · January 2008

The '06 330 is 13.7 lb./Hp and the 335 is 11.98. That relates to performance and efficiency measures that have changed over the year for the 3-series. I am sure the HP will not increase much from this point but the weight needs to go down as any enthusiast can attest. I assume BMW will use more carbon fiber as the years progress to reduce current bloat. fenders/doors/hood/trunk/roof.

What would an optimum ratio of horsepower to weight be for the 3-series considering the current iteration which probably has a few years left (4-5) before a refresh? That would be for a combined efficiency/comfort effect for normal road duty, not a track able unit.

Looking at only a 200 lb. difference down to the 1-series, I think the cafe rules will force some refreshing changes in weight reduction to these models. Perhaps some of the interior components can be made modular so the owner can mix/match necessary components and shed weight as appropriate. I'm thinking removing 3 seats at will since I'm not using them today and oh, by the way, unhook 4 air bag modules and put them on the shelf for this ride.

Please don't move this post or put me on "auto-avoid". Thanks!

Regards,
OW

roadburner · January 2008

Looking at only a 200 lb. difference down to the 1-series, I think the cafe rules will force some refreshing changes in weight reduction to these models.

I'm no fan of the new CAFE standards, but I too think that weight reduction will be a positive result.

kdshapiro · January 2008

Not at the expense of making cars in general less safe.

roadburner · January 2008

Not at the expense of making cars in general less safe.

All I know is that a 2700 lb. RWD car with a 235 bhp I6 and a LSD will suit me just fine...

laurasdada · January 2008

Agreed, as a lurker here.

Wow, when good, civil boards go bad...! But I'm sure we'll be back to our regularly scheduled program shortly. Water under the bridge.

fedlawman · January 2008

Or a 2700 lb. RWD car with a 240 bhp I4 and a LSD...

Seriously, it's amazing how our perspective changes in such a short time. Back in 1994 when I was car shopping, I thought 200 hp was serious power (I really wanted an MR2 turbo back then - ended up with a Miata). Remember, the E36 M3 with a mere 240 hp was a rocket back then.

Then in 1998 Lexus came out with the 300 hp V8 GS400 and I thought I'd died and gone to heaven (I didn't always have the excellent taste I possess today) - heck, even the Corvette had only 345 hp in those days.

So last year when the current batch of "entry-level" sport sedans hit the "magic 300" (I think the IS350 was the first to raise the bar), I figured that's all the car anyone would ever need. Well guess what, one year later, 300 hp is par for the course, and I'm thinking, "ho hum" already. Geez.

My wife likes to kid me that every time I get a new car, I say "this is the ONE I'll keep forever," and two years later I'm out buying a new car. Unfortunately, this is a power (and weight) war I don't want to play in. When "entry-level" sedans started weighing over 3200 lbs, I started getting really turned off by them.

I think I'm gonna sit by and watch this race from the sidelines for a while. After two years, 240 hp from a screaming 4 cylinder still suits me just fine...

jmaroun · January 2008

Right now, I'm thinking of leasing a new or 1year used 335i.

Since there were no changes to the 335i from 07 to 08..why not
take advantage of the huge first year's depreciation which I believe is around
$11 or $12k?

Even if I get a $6k discount off say carsdirect.com's price (which I consider to be fair but not the lowest price).. that would be cool.

I'd appreciate friendly advice.

Thanks,

Joseph
San Diego
http://www.carspace.com/blogs/enthusiastsdilemma08

roadburner · January 2008

Or a 2700 lb. RWD car with a 240 bhp I4 and a LSD...

Come to think of it, that would describe my Club Sport when I finally drop a stroked M42 into it. While I'm at it, I may go ahead and fit a six speed(if it will fit- the jury's still out on that issue) and a 4:11 or 4:56 final drive ratio.

kdshapiro · January 2008

Try posting your question here:

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef17997/

Leasing is not buying and lease rates are effected by factors other than cap cost or msrp.

circlew · January 2008

Or a 2700 lb. RWD car with a 240 bhp I4 and a LSD...

That's 11.25 lbs./hp or the same as a 335i. I know the handling will be better because of the reduced mass.

A 2007 Cooper S has a 15.81 ratio. So stock, maybe more fun than the 335 but easier for the 335 to accelerate.

I assume LSD will find it's way into the drive train soon at BMW and Mini.

Regards,
OW

habitat1 · January 2008

Amen to your post.

While the horsepower wars have run amuk, the weight of many cars has gotten equally out of hand. The net result is that you almost need 300 horspower to get the same level of excitement 200 horsepower would have given you 10-15 years ago.

I've posted many times how much I like my old 1995 Nissan Maxima SE with "only" 190 hp / 205 ft. lbs and a curb weight of 3,001 lbs. Now Nissan is selling a 2 seat sports car (350Z) that weighs 300+ lbs more (600 lbs more as a "roadster") and a so-called "supercar" (GT-R) that weights nearly a half ton more. They perform well enough thanks to lots of horsepower, but for goodness sakes, is that the best Nissan engineers could do to keep the weight down?

I'd pickle that old M3 of yours. It's a definite keeper.

circlew · January 2008

Perhaps you will get your wish and the power needs will wane...good for everyone.

Nissan has announced an new initiative to reduce its vehicles' weight by an average of 15%  when compared to its 2005 lineup  over the next seven years. The reason for the weight reduction is to improve fuel economy in the face of stricter regulations worldwide.

The Japanese automaker hopes to the shed weight by working with suppliers to provide lighter weight materials and encouraging them to meet new efficiency targets.

Vehicle weight has ballooned over the past few decades, mainly due to required safety equipment.

The target of 15% would mean most vehicles would lose about 500 pounds. Not only would that weight reduction result in increased fuel economy, but would also boost performance  a win-win situation. In quarter-mile drag racing, every 100 pounds lost results in about .1 second gain, meaning the 350Z would be a mid-13 second car.

Regards,
OW

kdshapiro · January 2008

 a win-win situation

Until they get into a car crash.

jmaroun · January 2008

I believe that design efforts can overcome safety issues for light sports oriented cars even with heavy SUV on the market. Anway, if CAFE gets their way, all cars will have to be lighter in order to reduce fuel consumption and emissions.

I don't think people want to necessarily go faster. They want a car that is more fun.

Fun=mc^2

Joseph
San Diego
my blog: http://www.carspace.com/blogs/enthusiastsdilemma08

circlew · January 2008

Fun=mc^2

Perfect...fun is a relative thing. You can have unbelievable fun on a 400 lb. motorcycle that develops 110 horsepower and fuel efficiency is relatively good. But the safety factor is way less with 2 wheels missing.

Street fun is limited as now in the densely populated cities, the authorities will impound your car if you are street racing. Another relative activity. Fun but dangerous.

For years, professional racers have reduced weight immensely relative to power gains and the fun factor goes up. As pointed our by the more knowing on this board, stock cars are following the diet plan of the contemporary teenager in this fast-food nation!

It's time to add technology for safety and weight savings combined and keep a relative fun factor in the result. No more power needed. So, that should be the marching orders for the design people.

As noted previously, they should modularize/package some features to add flexibility to the vehicles allowing quick removal to reduce weight and at the same time afford useful interior room. A win/win design.

Considering a 335i and if I'm only commuting myself, the 3 other seats stay home along with the related safety gizmos...that should bring me down 200 lbs right there. That's 11.66 lbs/hp vs 11.0lbs. per HP and a tad over 1mpg savings to be conservative. Leave ot the spare and add carbon fiber body panels/hood/trunk to save at least 100 lbs. more and all the better. Then we can have more fun!

Regards,
OW

flightnurse · January 2008

Intersting post... It brought back my racing youth, use to race Formula USA, the bike, GSXR750 (frame) GSXR1100 (engine, really a 1300) bike weight 370lbs (wet) and made 180 HP (RWHP) talk about FUN.. Power slide around corners with no problems... But of course that only happened on the race trace, never drove like that on the street.

Back to BMWs.....

Just retruned from the Detriot Auto show, was able to really look at the 1 series as well as the 3 series (and the new X6) i have to say my next car could be a new 135 or possible the new CTS Coupe (it hasn'[t been announce that GM well build it, but the car on the stand SURE looked production ready).

jmaroun · January 2008

I'm all for removable seats; especially on a 335i. There will be times no doubt that a needed trip to Home Depot for example, would require loading up of large things normally impossible in a 335i. That happened to me with my 330i..and I tell ya, in those times you really start to wonder if choosing the sports sedan over say an SUV or what have you, may have been the better choice. On every other occassion however, the smile on my face I get when driving the 330i reassures me that I made the right choice for me. Removable seats would definately be a handy thing as well a welcomed weight reduction. I would probably remove the rear seats and leave the passenger seat there most times. Another possible idea is T-Tops (which can be removed and left at home say) instead of moon-roof or convertable? How's the structural integrity of a T-Top say to a Vert?

I agree..lighter is no doubt better for handling assumming you have the propper traction. A Mustang in the rain or worse, snow..is not a scenareo I'd like to experience often. My friend had to put 4 concrete blocks in his Mustang's trunk to get in/out of his driveway on snowy days. Point, sometimes..lighter isn't more fun.

Fun doesn't necessarilly mean going faster. It's multi-dimensional. We want a beautiful car, but not one that chooses form at the cost of critical function. A sporty one for sure, but not too sporty that its immature. We want a prestigeous car, but not one that looks snoby. We want a smart car. Meaning reliable, worth its price, fuel efficient. Then again, if it were only smart, we'd all be driving an Accord. We want maximal performance, even if we wont tap it all. Let's be honest, its a helluva lota fun knowing your car can do something you don't have the talent to reproduce. Mainly though, its fun experiencing a drive in that special way that inspires confidence and induces thrills. Feeling those four wheels through the steering wheel just enough that it doesn't become tiresome.

It's a tall order I know. It's obvious that there are some German and Japanese engineers out there up for the challenge.

Joseph
San Diego
my blog: http://www.carspace.com/blogs/enthusiastsdilemma08

ursamajor · January 2008

I ordered a 2008 335xi for lease, and it's en route. I was not able to ride my lightweight road bike to any dealer with a similar auto, 328 or 335 (they don't have any in inventory with rear seats folding forward!!) to see if my bike will fit into the trunk, with the front wheel removed. I'm told there is "no problem." I have a standard 12-speed 26" frame, and I eliminated any vehicle from consideration which did not have folding rear seats to accomodate the cycle, with seats folded flat. Are there any cyclists out there who can confirm that a bicycle will comforably fit into the expanded cargo space of the current models? The only other sports sedan in the class with enough room or fold-down seats is the new Infinit EX, which is a nice car, but not a BMW, and the Audi, which I passed on due to the new A4 coming late Summer, which looks like a winner.

dhanley · January 2008

I fit my touring bike ( http://picasaweb.google.com/ctchrinthry/NewAlbum821071144PM/photo#51013814009600- 95170 ) in my 328 trunk with the seats down, but it's a bit of a pain in the butt, and i'm looking to get a wagon/hatch next. I also have a e36, but i think the newer car is bigger in any case.

ursamajor · January 2008

I am still considering the Infiniti EX, which is a hatchback of the G35 and I've test driven it. It's just right with the rear seats down and is a very nice car but the pricing is a mystery to me at this point. The dealers won't make lease deals until the car is in stock;I would stay with BMW at a similar price. But if it were materially less money, I would consider the all-wheel EX.

dhanley · January 2008

I'm kind of interested in the saab 9-3 wagon, now that they they will be coming with that nifty AWD system, and a little more oomph. Of course BMW has wagons too, but not with the niftier engine.

If your bike is like mine, getting the front wheel off is a bit of a pain, due to the brakes. I'd love to be able to just toss it in the back and go.

nyccarguy · January 2008

I've never been one to throw my bike in the back of any car. Thule Bike Racks work great as do rear mounted racks.

circlew · January 2008

I agree...use a bike rack...enjoy the 335 at the same time.

Regards,
OW

jmaroun · January 2008

">
please scroll down to the bottom of first post to see four wheels.
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23186

Can someone please tell me whether or not the bottomm right wheel in picture attatched is available for the 335i with Sports package?

I'm lead to believe that that is the only wheel Not available for the 335i with Sports Package..infact, the only car I've seen it on is the 328 coupe.

I personally like the bottom right wheel the most..but only if its performance matches or beats the default sports wheel for the 335i coupe with Sports Package which is the top right wheel. I personaly feel the top right wheel is argh a bit bland.

I'd appreciate friendly and informed commentary.

Thanks,

Joseph
San Diego
my blog: http://www.carspace.com/blogs/enthusiastsdilemma08

shipo · January 2008

The wheel is associated with the 328i Coupe Sport Package. That said, wheels of that type will fit any E90 or E92 3-Series car.

Best Regards,
Shipo

roadburner · January 2008

That said, wheels of that type will fit any E90 or E92 3-Series car.

But which ones are faster???

jmaroun · January 2008

I second that question!

Will there by any loss of 335i with Sports Package performance if the wheels designed for 328i with Sports Package are used instead? I've scoured the internet
and could not find an answer to this.

I hope someone here can.

Joseph
San Diego
blog: http://www.carspace.com/blogs/enthusiastsdilemma08

fedlawman · January 2008

I bet Shipo knows which ones have the best performance.

roadburner · January 2008

That was really too easy...

dhanley · January 2008

I'm pretty sure spinners will make your car wicked faster.

fedlawman · January 2008

In chrome - they're slipperier...

shipo · January 2008

Please, tell me that this is a joke. :confuse:

pat · January 2008

this is another issue where we just need to move on 'cross the bridge.

cdnpinhead · January 2008

make this stuff up.

Party on (well, not really -- we do need to keep Pat happy).

"If it don't go, chrome it" was something I heard a long time ago and took to heart. "If it does go, never chrome it" may be something that applies to the past week or so for several of us.

r34 · February 2008

The BMW USA website said the coupe is $2000 more than the sedan but I don't see any different in spec or equipment level. Is the style worth that much? Did I miss something?

Thanks.

BMW 335i 2007+

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