Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Volkswagen Passat Sludge Issues
This discussion has been closed.
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
On the other hand, Amsoil doesn't appear on any VW/Audi list of approved oils meeting their 502.00 or 503.01 specifications, while Mobil 1's 0w-40 is on those lists.
I'd say your son was pretty lucky in getting coverage under the extended sludge warranty. Given the current economy and VW's propensity to look for a loophole, I'd only reommend using a listed 502/00/503.01 spec oil, with a maximum of a 5,000 mile OCI in the B5 / B5.5 generation engine. And I'd document the oil changes as if you had $4,000 riding on it. Personally, I treat my oil change documents like a sacred text.
This engine was dirty to start with. The Amsoil, in cleaning out and or loosening up the trash in the engine plugged the pickup screen. So be careful!
Yes, my son is very lucky to have listen to his father and keep his records. After all the Passat is not cheap. And the maintenance records stand good. By the way for you who are wondering the dealer looked at the records and said without any hesitation the oil we used was fine. Just think of it, as you have said, VW covered the clean out and only because of the good oil and records.
For those that do have problems with VW , there is a class action suit against VW. It has been filed in Massachutches.
The link http://www.shulaw.com/unfair/vw-audi.asp
https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/afl.aspx
[non-permissible content removed] for tat...show me where it's on the list....
http://www.audiusa.com/etc/medialib/cms4imp/audi2/aoa/company/aoa-specific.Par.0- - 023.File.pdf
Whatever. It's all been hashed out here before. I'm done.
http://www.audiusa.com/etc/medialib/cms4imp/audi2/aoa/company/aoa-specific.Par.0- - - 023.File.pdf
The problem with the retort that you gave was that most uniformed individuals that read your response, would believe that that is proof, and not even venture out to find something better than that.
Public please become more aware ! Take alittle time and expand your accountability. Go to your dealer ( or a good reputable mechanic) with this info and ack them if or if not it is superior. https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/afl.aspx
If I am not mistaken Amsoil is not certified but self certified. They claim that they meet specs but governing body for each standard may have different take.
It saves Amsoil money but they charge not only arm and leg but one kidney and part of liver too.
Krzys
When you compare the price per mile it is actually less expensive, not to mention the fuel mileage increase and protection to the car !!
How long did you use it ?
My daughter purchased the car from a second hand car dealer who was selling the car on consignment. We were told that the previous owner was a VW mechanic at the local dealer. My daughter was sold on the car immediately.
She remained away at college with her car while I returned home. I'm a big stickler on oil changes. They are cheap, quickly done, and keep the engine in excellent shape. I insisted she take the car for an oil change every 3000 miles. At this time no one, nor anything in the idiot manual indicated the need for synthetic oil.
Like Dad told her, she took the car for an oil change at one of the local "retard" quick change places. The moron there ask here if she would like her engine flushed. She called home and I told her emphatically to refuse the offer. I said use their best oil and then leave. My daughter later told me "the guy was cute, and kept recommending the flush". She lost all brain power, or what little she had, and let the jerk flush the engine. He told her that I was behind the times and it was best to be done. Besides, Dad will never know!
She drove it maybe another 2000 miles before the stop engine light came on. Not knowing what was causing it, she pulled over and called me. At first I thought maybe they forgot to add the oil back. Don't laugh, another oil place did that to me. The engine actually blew up less than 5 miles later! After seeing it had oil I had the passat taken to the dealer.
The service writer told me what was wrong without even looking. Then off the top of his head he quoted a repair cost. That seemed weird to me, so I ask how he knew what the cost was? He stated because they had done so many of those cars.
Great.....I figured the engine flush knocked all of the crap loose, it got caught in the oil pickup, and starved the engine of oil, thus killing it. Well I was partially right....the motor was oil starved from a bad design of the oil pan. I had no choice in the repair as she was upside down in the loan. I must admit that her Passat impressed me. I can see why she bought it.
Being she nor I have ever owned a turbo, I had no idea what to expect. Even after all of this no one at the dealer has even bothered to tell me to use synthetic oil! Very poor communication between VW, and the consumer. I know it is not totally VW's fault, but if someone had advised us, or published it in the manual, I would have seen that the oil was changed at a 2500 mile interval.
Now I have a car that I know had to suffer some major internal engine damage, My intentions are to wash and wax it, make it pretty, and try and dump it on some unknowing fool............Not really. Although that's what I feel was done to my daughter. Too bad for the problems....what a car it must have been!!!!
Here's the bottom line - It doesn't matter if you, I, or Amsoil says that their oil is certified for the 502.00 or 503.01 specification - VW has the final say. And using oil that is not on the 502.00 or 503.01 Specification list gives VW justification for rejecting a sludge warranty claim.
So people can go back and forth on this one until the cows come home - but in this case VW calls the shots whether we like it nor not...
So if anyone wants to use Amsoil in the VW/Audi 1.8T - knock yourself out. It's your money, and if anyone can afford the thousands of dollars it will cost for an engine replacement, more power to them...
...or to put it another way (in the words of my parents):
"Those who won't hear, must feel..."
Jim
When you compare the price per mile it is actually less expensive, not to mention the fuel mileage increase and protection to the car !! "
What are you talking about? Amsoil is more expensive than Mobil 1 0W40 that I use. I change oil each 5K miles. Do you suggest I keep Amsoil longer in 1.8T than maximum recommended by VW for oils that meet VW 502.00, 503.01?
Krzys
PS My car has 95K miles.
Look up the Amsoil web site Oh here is the link http://www.amsoil.com/ , read and become informed. I am not going to tell you to extend past the manufaturer interval but I owned three Nissan pickups (not turbo). I drove them 3800 to 4000 miles a week as a courier. I changed the oil at 25,000 to 30,000 miles. I ran one 670,000 the other two about 375,000 a piece. NEVER ANY ENGINE WEAR PROBLEMS ! AS a matter of fact I blew a head gasket on the 670 truck at 310,000. THe cylinders had no score marks, the timing cain was in good enough shape that the sprockets still had their hone marks on both sides of the teeth. I was using the amsoil 1mc. filters(important!).
I have a 2003 freightliner Sprinter with the turbo diesel 117,000. I use the Amsoil 15W-40 diesel in it and change it at 20,000 weither I have to or not.
Now here is the thing. When I went from oem oil to Amsoil at 10,000 in the Sprinter I gained right at 10% MPG. In the nissans I experienced the same increase over using a Castrol GTX with a Teflon treatment added.
Now going from Moble 1 to Amsoil might not give you that much of a boost but Ithink that if you relly want to learn more I would get in touch with the folks at Amsoil and Check it out.
One thing you must also do is use the fine 1mc. fiters,remember that normal oil filters are usually 10mc. That makes a big difference.
I don't know if Moble1 can be used with 1mc. filters. If it can then do it and get great protection. I have a friend that has a 2000 Passat. I flushed hie engine, put in the Amsoil with the 1mc. filter and he now has 160,000 on it NO TROUBLES( the change was at 23,000 miles).
Now ironically reding alot of these threads on this forum it seems people are haveing more troubles with this engine after they switch oil. The reason is the new oil is cleaning andloosen up crap and the pickup screen is close to the pan. DO A GOOOOD FLUSH.
The dealer in Wisconsin that has done the work on my son's car was gracious enough to email me the protocol that VW has for this problem hopefully they followed it to the letter.
And that is typical of over the road diesel truckers experience.
Now who wants to scream at me when I say that Amsoil is superior to Mobil1.
I wouldn't compare low-revving over the road diesel engines with sumps that hold gallons of oil to a forced induction gasoline engine that barely hold 1 gallon.
Look. We get it. You love Amsoil. Maybe you're even a dealer to get a price on the stuff in their pyramid scheme. But you're doing a diservice to other readers here by hinting at extended oils changes being appropriate for a very hot running, small sumped, gasoline forced induction engine.
Anyone who does is making a leap of faith. Your son's case of doing 3,000 mile oil changes and getting warranty coverage on a sludged engine is one thing. But it's another to lead people on, some of whom aren't familiar enough with this car to consider the consequences.
I can tell you this...the web is full of stories of people who couldn't get their sludged engines covered because they couldn't supply full documentation of all oil changes within a 5,000 mile interval.
You can if you do the above. I have a freind that has and at 160,000 miles he has no
problems. Now there you are.
You are talking about sludge problems. Why? If you do your oil changes and use good oil you will have no problems.
Yes the engine has a propencity to sludge up but if you do it right(oil) there is no reason to predisposition yourself to have to cry.
Krzys
PS Go to your amsoil data and check what they have to say about Subaru turbocharged engines. If I am not mistaken they recommend 3750 miles OCI just like Subaru does.
Because that is the topic of this thread!
Meanwhile, let me just say that altair's input has been very valuable in our Forums. If you don't care for it, that's fine, but the best thing to do is just skip the posts which you do not find useful. Altair's posts are most welcome here.
Thanks.
I e only CRY CRY CRY about VW not honoring their warranty. I have had no problems.
People with sludge problems should learn that they have to read to book and take responsibility. Amsoil at interval is the best oprotection you have. Yes it cost more but if you are not going to keep your records, then I don't care how little you pay for your oil you are going to loose.
If in fact they preople reading this thread want a solution to their problems and their engine is uot of warranty then the BEST THING they can do is find a reputable mechanic flush the daylights out of their engine, as a fact I have the protocol that VW uses right infront of me. Here is how they do it.
They take the vave cover( they call it a head cover) off. They inspect each cam cap(one at a time). They then make determination about to clean or replace engine ( the engine is a factory certified rebuild. If it needs cleaning they clean pan replace hoses, they the use the BG system with 6 qts. of cleaner. They adjust cam tensioner they replace oil with a standard oil run the engine for a certain amout of time then drain engine then replace with their Valvoline(not my choice) synthetic bulk oil then say its ok.
Now Personally my son's car come out of the shop tomorrow. He is in school in Menomonie, Wis. he is going to drive it to Appleton this weekend. He is going to go to a Dealership( where he has some kind fo an arraingment with the dealer(GMC)to do the labor for like $15, he supplies(I supply) oil (amsoil) and a 1mc. filter(Amsoil manufactured by Hastings) and get rid of the Valvoline. I figure the 180 or so miles gives the valvoline enough time to get rid of anyu left over solvents left in the engine. The Amsoil then will give that protection required without breaking down.
Now, Mr Host, if the people reading this THREAD don't understand that this is the best they can do for their car then wo be un to them. And you.
What the heck is his input? THat mobil1 is the only oil worth putting in an engine?
That Amsoil is not approved?
That these engines have sludge problems. All engines HAVE sludge problems if the owner is not smart enough to get educated about the kind of engines they have in their cars!!!!!! Has he let people know about the active class action suit?
If he has done any of this prior to my involvement with this forum then I appoligize ! !
I am on bended knee. But all that I have heard is how I have lead the masses of sheeple down a bad path and have told them to increase their OCI. When nothing is furtjer from the truth. this is all about SLUDGE. If people KEPP RECORDS, then VW WILL honor their warranty ! ! ! This is not hearsay all they have to do if they have problems is cell the dealer and act intelligent. If their car is older than 8 yrs. then they better start being informed !
Amsoil is better than Mobil1. Yea it costs more. Yes it protects better!
Just call Mobil Tech Support 1-800-662-2545 and ask them if their product can be filtered down past 1mc. . It can not!!!
Go to this site http://www.synthetic-oil-tech.com/d.cgi/1431475/amsoil_vs_mobil1.htm
And read !
Now we are talking about Sludge. And how to keep away from it. You infer I am off point. OK the readers out there I ask you where else is that much info presented in any more of a concise amount of verbage ?
Who the heck is altair anyway? Lets talk sludge and i's remedy not some other person's persona. I don't want to dominate this thing I want more information and this altair has not iven me anything that is new to learn. The other readers can figure it out for them selves but all they really want is to hace someone else tell them what top do! I never told anyone to extend their OCI I juat toold them the truth.
Mobil1 can not be filtered any more than 10mc.. That is 100 times larger than 1 mc.
in surface area and 1000 times larger volumn. DO the math.
The Mobil one tech support said that if you try to filter their oil to 1mc. then you will remove all the detergents.
We need to move on now.
B.T.W. I use Motul X-Cess 8100 5W-40 which is on the list. Amsoil is considered a Group IV oil. Motul not only exceeds Group IV, it is made from Group IV and Group V base stocks.
No questions asked
YOU ARE WRONG !!!!
And stop misleading the readers of this forum !
Anyone that whats to can call the dealer ship you can get the number from the VW website and talk with the service advisor.
When you call then ask them about Rearick.
What you are inferring is that you are saying is that the Amsoil sludged, it is not the oil that sludged up it is the crap it loosened up. I will refer again to the folks that started using Amsoil early on their cars life(25,000 or so).
I just got an email from him and even though his car is outside of any warranty, 1999 Passat, he informed me he changed oil at 6,100 miles (160.000 mile and counting)and that the oil was so clean that he hesitated to change it but wanted to before the bitter cold got a grip on where he lives (high elevations of Colorado).
In my opinion what VW should have done is taken all the 1.8T cars that have this issue and take them through the desludging program then made everyone keep records.
By the way how much is Motul X-cess 8100 a quart. Since there are those that read this forum they are sensitive to price "... Amsoil cost an arm and a leg..."
I am not refuting the fact that Motul X-Cess is not good. I am saying from personal experience that VW does accept and will honor the Amsoil product in their cars. Any skeptics, just call that dearlership or the the dealership in Columbus,Ohio or ant other.
Now I have been told in personal email that the moderator of this thread whats me to keep from doing personnal attacks to other people. All that has been said above is just facts.
VW accepts Amsoil 5w-40 Eropean Car Oil.
That is the fact !
Amsoil fanatic, I see. And if you read the next paragraph - very carefully, I challenge you to assert that I am inferring that the Amsoil sludged:
Here's the bottom line - It doesn't matter if you, I, or Amsoil says that their oil is certified for the 502.00 or 503.01 specification - VW has the final say. And using oil that is not on the 502.00 or 503.01 Specification list gives VW justification for rejecting a sludge warranty claim.
What part of that paragraph didn't you comprehend?
Insead of sitting around and expecting a good life from bad habits WAKE UP America and get rid of the crap in your life.
Which is why I prefer a premium European oil (Motul) in my European engine over Amsoil. Your overly-defensive stance confirms my assertion that AMSOIL = AMWAY...
No thanks AMSOIL... I'll rely on my 28 years of experience as a VW owner and my track record:
1975 Mk1 Scirocco - 250,000 miles
1987 Mk2 Golf GT - 624,000 miles
1997 Mk3 Jetta (currently at 268,000 miles)
2003 Mk4 Wolfsburg Jetta 1.8T (currently at 128,000 miles)
2003 B5 Passat GLS 1.8T (currently at 92,000 miles)
YOU ARE WRONG !!!!
And stop misleading the readers of this forum !
I have a track record with the readers of this forum, along with my very-knowledgeable counterparts like shipo, bpeebles, altair4 (to name a few). We prefer not to let our advice be influenced by emotional evangelism towards one product or another.
Something to think about...
So call the VW dealership in Eau Claire, you can find on VW official web site and ask them.
Or call any VW dealership and get that confirmation.
Anyone else out there can do the same.
Now Pat you must have been reading my posts, because you have been censoring them. You know that this is what I have been telling you and everyone else, Just because the oil is not on the list of " ... generally available oils ..." does not mean that the list is a complete list of approved oils. Call the VW dealership, any VW dealership and see for yourself.
Call the VW dealership in Columbus, Ohio Byers.
Call the VW dealership in Appleton Wisconsin.
By the way, if you want to discuss "censoring" feel free to email me. But be aware that as a private website, Edmunds.com sets its own rules of engagement. All members agree to abide by those rules when they join. On an occasion where one or more of them are not followed, yes, posts may be removed. That is not censorship; it's Edmunds ensuring that promises made are promises kept for the sake of all of our membership.
For your own needs / likes, if you like Amsoil, and the dealer said they would fully back you up, great, have at it. But that is not *all* dealers. The general public needs to stick with what is published. There are no oil police, pour into the crankcase what you want to pour in. I tend to burn through warrantees pretty quickly, so I mostly do what I think is right for the long term health of the car (I like to keep them a LONG time). For me, that is Mobil 1, 0w40 (now gracing my new Audi A4, 2.0T). (and no, I own no oil company stock - too bad for me!!).
The general public, If they have any questions as to what to do should contact VW to see what they really will back! The general public however is not interested in taking the time to research what the reality of the facts are. So you are right they are limited.
Just like the fact the Mobil 1 tech told me that Mobil 1 can not be filtered down past 10mc. because it would then loose all its detergents thus becoming a useless oil.
Mobil has a good website and their technical phone number that they give is very timly in answering the phone and are very helpful. In an earlier post I posted that number, anyone can call and verify what I said about the 10mc. filter limit for
Mobil 1.
Now if VW will honor the fact that that Amsoil meets or exceeds THEIR spec. and that that oil can be filtered finer than .1(thats one tenth of a micron) then I think that that oil in a clean engine should give better protection. I too like to protect my investment. That is how I got over 300,000 on three nissans (one of them was 610,000 when the body rust caught up to it). My '92 olds is at 189,000 No lubrication problems. And my 2003 MB Sprinter 117,000 no lubrication problems
is still going strong gets nothing but
: )
quality oil that meets certain SAE service standards (and not necessarily synthetic!) is OK for the Passat. When I read some stuff on Edmunds about 1.8T oil sludging, I became very concerned, as I have used some Castrol non-synthetic, another time Valvoline non-synthetic, in this vehicle. Now I read all the stuff from the Passatphiles about Mobil 1and other high-quality synthetics as being absolutely mandatory, plus all the scary stuff about VW demanding synthetics and documentation of oil changes for sludging warranty coverage. How in the hell can they now require synthetics when the manual itself states otherwise, AND more or less cut the knowledgeable do-it-yourselfer out of the maintenance realm? (There I go, getting emotional myself). I might go so far as to say this sounds "un-American" or certainly "anti-free trade" if they're claiming one has to patronize their dealers or the private garages. I also have one other question regarding viscosities...I have a five quart jug of Mobil 1 0w-30 synthetic in my garage. Would this weight be inappropriate for my 1.8T, particularly for Minnesota summer driving. Appreciate feedback on all of the above. Thanks! vwdawg
1) VW issued a statement in something like 2003 that supersedes the language in your Owner's Manual. The language in the statement is fairly concise in that not only are you required to use synthetic oil, but synthetic oil that meets at the very least, the VW 502.00 oil specification. Said another way, conventional oil is unacceptable, as is synthetic oil that doesn't meet 502.00.
2) The person/dealership you bought your car from should have provided you with the updated oil change requirement document.
3) Their maintenance policy does not preclude you from doing all of your own oil changes, just keep the receipts.
4) The Mobil 1 0W-30 is of an acceptable grade, however, it is not 502.00 compliant, and as such, should not be used in your car.
5) The only 0W-30 generally available in the States that meets 502.00 is Castrol Syntec 0W-30 (and it's made in Germany).
6) The only Mobil 1 oil generally available in the States that meets 502.00 is Mobil 1 0W-40.
Best regards,
Shipo
The "sludge letter" from VWoA:
The original Oil Spec for my '03. The key was, and still is, that it really wants the owner to use 5w-40 for changes. 5w-40 only comes in synthetic.
Then came the supplement to the owern's manual. Note the 502.00 SPec that it mandates:
IMHO, the 0w-30 you have isn't appropriate unless it meets at least VW Spec 502.00. Good luck.
Case in point, I had a transmission go out on an older car of mine a couple of years back. The car in question was eight years old at the time and had well over 100,000 miles on it. Did I get upset because the manufacturer had no intention of buying me a new transmission? Heck no, I just ponied up for a new tranny and drove that old car another 70,000 miles before finally trading it in.
My turn to chime in.
I am the new owner of a 2002 Passat, 1.8L Turbo, it has 104k miles on it. I have only had it for about 3 months and so far no problems. I know it is a time bomb , but a few more things to add.
First of all, the previous owner “luckily” had an accident which required an engine rebuild (the head was replaced and supposedly the oil system was completely flushed out). I have little details about this occurrence but will try to get a service record through the dealership where it was serviced (Crystal Lake, IL). The timing belt (and water pump) was changed as per the recommended service schedule.
The previous owner has evidently used regular oil only (gasp..) and changed it at 5000mi intervals.
I have read hundreds of posts on various forums, and I think it is safe to say that synthetic oil only should be used, as well as shortening the intervals to 3k. My guess is the previous owner has: 1) been very lucky 2) has a relatively new engine which may have prevented the problems from appearing 3) has been good to the car in the sense where he was always careful to have the engine in the “normal” operating temperature before putting more stress on the engine and using the turbo.
In my case, I drive the car very short distances to work (only 2mi one way to work), which I know is not ideal as the engine barely warms up and then is shut off. I am also being very careful not to rev it up when the engine is cold, and similarly I try not to have the turbo kick in before properly warmed up. On the weekends I give it more of a chance to warm up and operate in a more normal fashion.
Nevertheless, I am more than warned of what can happen.
Time for an oil change has come up. I went to Jiffy Lube, they quoted $65.. they however know that synthetic is needed. The local VW dealer charges something like $80 with synthetic. This is all pretty expensive, but as we know, much less than facing the cost of a major repair like an engine swap.
I am considering doing my own oil change, but to be honest I have never done this, and even though I am mechanically inclined, I am a bit reluctant knowing the problems I can cause if the job is not done correctly. I hear that some people buy their own oil, then bring it to a shop to have the oil change performed.
I also read about the oil filter, apparently the “large one” should be used. I did some research but couldn’t find the part number (found these on pelicanparts.com (http://www.pelicanparts.com/euro/catalog/shopcart/W087/POR_W087_ENGoil_pg1.htm#- item3): 068-115-561-B-M63 and 068-115-561-B-M67; not sure which one is OK to use).
I don’t want to take the chance of having some random shop put in just some regular filter which may cause problems, and would rather bring my own.
Do you care to comment and offer suggestions?
Obviously a lot of you will say “sell the car as soon as you can” “run while you can” and other “lemon” comments.. with reason I am certain. I have read about enough very disappointed and angry VW customers who will forever turn their back onto this auto manufacturer.
I would like to give it a chance, mostly considering the fairly new engine. Also, selling this thing now I will not be getting ahead (I paid $5100 for 102k, not an awful deal for a mint-looking Passat) and I cannot afford to buy another car now.
I do not even want to think about VW doing anything for me, as I am the third or fourth owner and (some) oil change receipts are definitely missing.
Thank you.
Personally, I bring my own oil to the dealer; they've had no problem with it. I use Mobil 1 0w-40 which meets the appropriate specs for the 1.8T (VW Spec 502.00). But then I'm still covered by the sludge warranty and I guard my oil change receipts like they are the Dead Sea Scrolls.
Changing the oil on the 1.8T has some peculiarities to it. First, there is a belly pan that is attached with half-turn attaching hardware and a 10 mm nut. Second, be very careful that you drain the engine oil, and NOT the transmission (don't laugh - it's happened to ots of people). To gain access to the oil filter from above, simply loose the clamp on the large intake hose and push the hose out of the way. Others movethe coolant reservoir but I don't like to mess with the electrical connection on it.
I'll probably start doing my own oil changes once thesludge wrranty expires. I doesn't look that hard at all - I've seen worse; my wif'es Accord has thefilter way up on the back side of the engine and it's directly above the exhaust pipe. Nasty bit of design, that.