Buying a used 5 Series

taxesquire · June 2007

WOW! I don't feel comfortable giving a full response to all your questions b/c your post is a little over my head (OK - alot over my head

).

A car that's not too small, but good for city driving, stick shift, v8, and can race. That's a lot to ask.

I'd forget about the 7-series - I think it's too big to drive in the city.

I would think the 3 would suit your needs if you're single or just don't use the back seat much. Otherwise, a 5-er is the way to go.

roadburner · June 2007

1. Beemers= BMW Motorcycles
Bimmers= BMW Automobiles

2.I'm leaning towards the 530i since it has less drawbacks, but should I go for it since 530i stick shifts are rare?

Read this before you look at any early M60 powered BMWs.

3. Or should I do a tranny swap out and end up with all advantages and no drawbacks?

Converting a post-1990 BMW to a manual transmission is often MUCH more trouble than it is worth. It can be done, but it can be a very expensive and time consuming procedure.

4. I would strongly recommend that you attend several high performance driver schools-such as the ones offered by BMW CCA- BEFORE you modify your chosen Bimmer. I say this because 99% of BMW drivers are woefully unable to drive a stock-never mind modified-Bimmer at anywhere near its true potential.

5. If I wanted an inexpensive BMW that can be modified easily and somewhat cheaply, I'd find a nice E36 325i or 328i. There are tons of engine and suspension parts available.

nowakj66 · July 2007

Like a lot of people, I have considered a BMW for many years but have yet to buy one. I want my first purchasing experience to be a positive one.

I am looking for a family friendly but sporty and upscale car for me. My wife has a van and we have 2 kids under age 3 (ie 2 car seats). My last 3 cars have been non-luxury Japanese cars - Outback wagon and 2 Accords. I am looking for something a little more sporty and have always admired BMWs.

I am considering a used 2002 540i 6 MT wi 57000 miles. Its certified used from a dealer for asking price of $24900. What sort of issues should I look for when evaluating such a car? What sort of maintenance and service costs are typical for such a car?

The dealer provided a carfax which indicates 2 owners. It also indicated a battery and catalytic converter being replaced in 2004. It was in a minor accident and the front bumper was repainted in 2005.

Aside from the particulars of this car, is there anything in general that I should look out for on this kind of car?

Is this the BMW to start with?

shipo · July 2007

It sounds like a great car that if you don't jump on I might. Geez, I've seen the 530i from that year up in that price range, so a 540i 6-Speed is a bargain if its in good shape.

Things to look for:
1) Oil changes at least every 15,000 miles (using BMW LL-01 certified oil)
2) Brake fluid changed every two calendar years (using DOT 4 brake fluid)
3) Engine coolant changed every three to four calendar years
4) That "Service A" was performed at around the 30,000 mile mark
5) Inquire with the dealer what the cost will be for "Service B" (due in 3,000 miles)

Other things to consider:
- What kind of tires are on the car? I ask because the OEM summer performance rubber have long since worn out.
- The brakes are probably going to be ready for replacement within the next 15,000 miles or so. They are a fairly easy DIY job and oddly enough less expensive to do than the ones on our Minivans (go figure), however, dealerships seem to like to charge top dollar for the job. Check around for pricing (hint: find a good independent BMW shop).
- If you live where it snows, you will NEED a set of winter tires. You can either buy a complete set of wheels and rubber from TireRack for a little over $1,000, or you can poke around on the second hand market. Wheels from any E39 (the generation of 5-Series you are looking at) 540i or 530i SP will fit over your brakes.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Best Regards,
Shipo

nowakj66 · July 2007

Thanks Shipo - great advice. The carfax does indicate oil changes and services aprox every 15000 miles. Should I be concerned that the catalytic converter was replaced in 2004?

I hope to see the car in person this afternoon.

shipo · July 2007

That's a little odd but I wouldn't worry about it too much. Could have been something simple like a piece of road junk mashing the converter or something.

Best Regards,
Shipo

nowakj66 · July 2007

Okay all - I test drove the 540i 6MT.

Here is the good news
- BMW certified warranty on all major systems till 10/2008 - not '07 like I thought
-tires are new dunlops
- paint looks good
- car drove incredibly smoothly
- tons of power
- very relaxed and smooth but very powerful when you get on it
- steering was amazing
- driver seat is very comfy with lower leg extender for tall guys
- back seat was big enough
- next service is an oil change
- interior was clean
- last driver was non smoker, no kids or pets and serviced it well

Now the bad
- paint is good but not perfect
- headliner had some stains by the drivers door
- would need winter tires and rims ($1000)

Dealer called to say they would sell for $23400. Thoughts?

shipo · July 2007

The only fly in the ointment that I see is the "Next Service". I'm 99.9% positive that at 60,000 miles there is supposed to be another "full service" which I believe is called "Service B". I don't have my manual at hand at the moment, I'll look it up in the morning and report back.

Other than that, it sounds like a steal. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

nowakj66 · July 2007

Thanks for looking that up, Shipo. Now the morning after I am starting to have second thoughts.

I guess the real issue is do I want to trade a pristine, but relatively sedate, highly reliable 2 year old car plus $5000+ for an expensive to maintain. in good but not perfect condition 6 year old car with a lot of style and cachet?

I am starting to think the 540i car might be a little too much for me. That motor under the hood seemed as big as a mini cooper and I am sure it would be expensive to work in that tight space. . .

It's just a tough call. . .

Just to be clear we are talking about going from a 2005 Accord Hybrid to the 2002 540i 6 MT.

shipo · July 2007

On all non-M 5-Series E39 models there is what's referred to as "Service II" that is to be performed around the 60,000 mile mark.

Another option to consider would be a 2002 or 2003 530i 5-Speed. It'll still give you lots of performance (especially compared to the Accord), considerably better mileage than the 540i and generally lower maintenance costs. On my 530i 5-Speed (a 2002 with the Sport Package, Premium Package, Premium Audio and Xenon headlights) I was able to consistently get just over 30 mpg at speeds between 70 and 75, and about 23 in combined driving.

There are a couple of other advantages that the 530i has over that generation of the 540i 6-Speed.
- The 530i has even more responsive steering (Rack & Pinion) than the already good steering of the 540i (Recirculating Ball)
- The 530i SP has the same size tires front and back which allows for tire rotations (which will extend the life of the tires) as opposed to the staggered setup of the 540i 6-Speed.
- The 5-Speed 530i SP is generally more plentiful when compared to the 540i 6-Speed (which includes the SP suspension setup), so you should be more easily able to find the color and option combination that suites you.

As for deciding between your Accord and the 5er, well, I'm biased to say the least so I'm probably a very bad person to ask for an opinion. :P FWIW, I am not a fan of Hybrids for many reasons so of course I'd suggest you go for a 5er. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

scottinky · July 2007

trading to a 5 series, wagon. 530XiT. my choice is easy, it is too expensive, so
I am staying put until i can afford one.

nowakj66 · July 2007

Shipo - thanks for all your help on this. The 540i experience got me thinking - I liked the car but I was not too excited to be the third owner. I also like black interiors as opposed to light. The other thing was inexperience. It *seemed* like a nice BMW 5 series but I was not sure if I was looking at a rare version or an odd duck.

What *is* the best way to score a certified 5 series with one owner?

Is there any any chance an '02 or '03 will come this way? Most one owner 5 series seem to be leases. SO am I too late for a one owner '03 (ie they have all come off lease already?) Is '04 more likely?

If I see a car from a private seller or car max, is there any way to get the car certified at a BMW dealer for the extended warranty?

Again, thanks in advance for the tips.

shipo · July 2007

I'm not sure what the rules are on certifying a used car, however, I do know that some folks have had second hand cars certified. I suppose the best place to search for information is at your local dealership.

Keep us posted.

Best Regards,
Shipo

530ir1150r · July 2007

Check the BMWCCA classifieds and the CPO section of BMWNA. BMWCCA go back to day 1 and BMWNA go back 6 years.

Two other things; avoid lease cars, they have not been maintained any better than the schedule of "free" service, and you do not need certified cars or definitely you do not need to purchase extended warranties or maintenance plans.

I have a 2002 530i SP 5 speed with 93000 miles. My costs that would have been covered by either extended plans are $1402. My understanding of extended warranties and maintenance plans are they will cost approximately $3500.

CPO costs are as negotiable as the car, it is in the price, but you will pay between $1000 and $1500 more for a CPO. A BMW Dealer will not lose money with a CPO package, but they may break even since you will likely come back to the dealer for service, covered and non covered.

Extended plans have profit and commission included. If they cost $3500, there is probably $1750 of profit and commission. That leaves $1750 of coverage; CPOs cost $1500 more and my costs have been $1402 and I am passed the last scheduled service. That should give you a good idea of what an average BMW will cost to maintain by the schedule.

Also, keep in mind that with tires my total cost of service and maintenance is $7173. I roughly follow the service schedule recommended by Mike Miller, BMWCCA tech editor, and have also bought a replacement wheel and had a bent wheel repaired.

I hope this helps your decision process. I highly recommend a 530i.

nowakj66 · July 2007

Thanks for the tips 530ir.

I can see the $1402 in service costs but how did it get to $7373 with tires?

530ir1150r · July 2007

Scheduled, service beyond BMW's recommendation; $2139.42.

Recurring, mostly tires; $3019.07.

Damage, wheel repair and replacement wheel; $621.00

Unscheduled, Mostly preventive radiator replacement and brake and master cylinder issues; $1393.06.

Annual costs the last 4 years including 2007 so far has run $1500 to $1800.

The $1402 is what an extended warranty, maintenance plan or CPO would have covered and is in the $7173.

cmr530i · July 2007

Can you tell me at what mileage you replaced the radiator?
Thanks.

530ir1150r · July 2007

75,365; it coincided with flushing out the coolant system in the fall after 4 years. I do not know if it was absolutely necessary, but I wanted to do it before I had to do it.

roadburner · July 2007

I do not know if it was absolutely necessary, but I wanted to do it before I had to do it.

The radiator in my wife's 1997 528i was replaced at @8 years and 125K miles, it cracked when it was removed in order to replace the water pump. Who knows how long it would have lasted if it had been left alone? FWIW, the radiator in my Club Sport is still going strong at 12 years and 110K miles.

530ir1150r · July 2007

I'd read somewhere where early 2000's (I cannot remember if it was just 5 series or just 6 cylinders) had problems with the plastic piece cracking where the radiator hoses attach at around 100k miles. I put it on my list of things to do several years ago. Older BMWs should not be a problem, I do not know about newer.

piperjack · July 2007

Hi all,

I am considering buying a e34 525i with a manual tranny.

I am looking for advice on the following points:

1) What are the common wear and failure items on this model?
2) How long will the engine last (miles) on average? How about a clutch job?
3) Are certain years better than others from a reliability standpoint (new electricals, etc)?
4) What kind of mileage are you getting on this model?
5) Overall level of satisfaction from owning this model (i.e. good value or not good value at say $4-5K compared to a $15-16K e39)

Thanks in advance!

feroz · July 2007

Hi folks; I know most of you have tons of experience and knowledge on 5 series Bimmers. leterly I´m looking to buy a 2002/ 03 5 series. I know that i don´t want the m5 or the 525/528.

Questions on the 530 /540.

1). What is the diffrence between 530 / 540, is it just the engine or other features?
2). What are the original tire and wheel sizes on this models, no need to look in to F1 530 just "top line"
3). What it the bhp on the 530? Is there a very clear power diffrence with the 540?

Thanks one and all for this info and help;

regards

Feroz!

simmomi · July 2007

Hi all...
Wanted to get some opinions. I'm thinking about purchasing my first BMW to replace my '92 Mercedes 300E. I have found a '97 White on Tan 528i with 101K miles.

This car has been in the same family since first purchased. Car went from Mom to daughter, then to daughter's brother.

Car has been very well maintained, and is in overall excellent condition. I have not yet got it to my wrench for a Pre-Purchase Inspection. Will be doing so in the next couple days.

Seller was originally asking $12,500 for the car but has already shared with me that he will take nothing less than $10,500.

Any suggestions on stuff I should consider, or things to look at before buying?

I've driven a bunch of 528s recently, mostly 97s and 98s (to stick with the cast iron engine blocks). This one seemed to drive a little better than the others, but it could just be that I liked it best. Even the cars that weren't in the greatest of shape drove very well, so it's nice to see that the cars are consistent.

I have found cars with higher mileage with asking prices in the $8K - $9K dollar range. From what I've seen, this car definitely stood out as the best in the bunch.

I look forward to being able to share some good news about my future car soon. Thanks in advance, and best regards.

Mike...

shipo · July 2007

My only comment is to ask why you are overtly trying to avoid the new block that debued in 1999? The aluminum block with iron or steel (I don't remember which) cylinder sleeves has proven to be very robust, easily a match for the cast iron block.

Best Regards,
Shipo

simmomi · July 2007

Shipo,
First, thanks for your reply.

The reason I am primarily looking at the 97/98 cars is because of BMW owners who do not properly maintain their cars, and allow them to overheat. My wrench has seen on multiple occasions the 99 and newer cars where someone has allowed the car to overheat, which CAN cause probs with (I believe I have this right) the head pulling studs out of the block. I'll have to confirm that is correct, but I believe that's what I was told. He's seen cases like this, and the repairs to fix such a problem are very costly. Personally, I'm not interested in dealing with this.

It's not a big deal for my wrench to deal with that for his own cars as it's just his time (next to parts).

Anyway, that's the reason. I would love to have a 99 or 2000 model year car, as they have so many more options available. I just don't want to end up fixing someone else's mistake.

shipo · July 2007

I think that he's making a mountain out of a mole hill. Even in 2001 when BMW was shipped a batch of faulty auxiliary cooling fans by a supplier for six cylinder 3-Series and 5-Series cars (which resulted in LOTS of cars being overheated), the engines didn't suffer any significant damage. One individual that I know personally had his overheat with less than 10,000 miles on the clock, and prior to having the cooling fan recall performed. In the last six years he has taken that same car to over 100 track events and has in excess of 120,000 miles on the engine and it is still as tight and free of any exceptional fluid use as it was before it overheated.

Could it be that a few engines were overheated to the point of damaging the engine? Absolutely, but I don't believe it is as rampant of a problem as you've been led to believe. In fact, depending upon my next contract, I might be back in the market for a 1999 or 2000 528i as I personally prefer the aluminum block engines.

Best Regards,
Shipo

scottinky · August 2007

our local dealer has a gorgeous '06 530XiT AWD wagon with 9K on it, and a 100K
extended warranty. I have never owned or driven a bmw before, but the 4yrs of
maintenance and warranty make this potential purchase VERY appealing. I believe
they are now asking under book value, at $39.9. Is there more room to move on this
car? What types of things should I look for? It has everyting except NaV.

feroz · August 2007

What is DSP radio?

roadburner · August 2007

What is DSP radio?

Digital Signal Processing. You paid a premium for it on the E39, but the sound was still pretty underwhelming.

shipo · August 2007

"Digital Signal Processing. You paid a premium for it on the E39, but the sound was still pretty underwhelming."

You know..., I test drove a 530i with and without the DSP system, and try as I might, that engine note sounded exactly the same to me on both cars. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

pfagen · September 2007

Forum Members, your opinions, please, on to buy the 95':
Here is the ad for the 95 model: "112k highway miles, july 95 manu, owned since July 96 (I saw the forum link talking about the v8 US gas issue + I have a bmw mechanic to do a prepurchase inspection), owner bought a x5 and now willing to part with the 530i - asking $7400, Kelly BB=$8390"

Please note:
1. I owned a 89 325i (same indi bmw mechanic as noted above), 5 spd, sold it for a minivan (wife mostly drives), and now ready for a "fun car to drive on weekends" (I work out of my home)
2. I still have the 95 dealership brochure, all these years.
3. I read the msn.auto.com reviews on the 95 and 2001-03 and both seem like incredible cars.
4. 95 is out of warranty, 2001-03 may not be, therefore, trying to gauge maintenance costs.
5. 2001-2003 5 sp = $17-$23k, + I would need buy a plane ticket to inspect (all autotrader + cars.com listings are out of state). The 95 listing is 5 miles from my home.

Anyone have owner's experience or opinions of the 95 530 5spd vs 2001-03 530i 5 spd?

Thank you. Paul

shipo · September 2007

Assuming that it has a full service history, the updated engine block and has had the oil, coolant and brake fluid changed on schedule, I'd say go for it.

Best Regards,
Shipo

pat · September 2007

Here's the link: feroz, "BMW 5-Series Maintenance and Repair" #1982, 28 Aug 2007 12:51 pm.

pfagen · September 2007

Thank you for replies, to date. Paul

bobthedude · September 2007

I am looking to buy a 2006 550i with about 14K miles. I have heard from several people the high cost of maintaining Beemers. Is is worh the high dollars. I can get a fully loaded Acura RL or GS 350 for less than what I will pay for the 550 (but I love the way it drove on my test drive).
How has your experience been with the 550?
What is the mileage that you get?
Any maintenance issues?

gohorns1 · September 2007

Uh-oh, you missed spelled Bimmer, this seems to be a sore spot for many folks on these forums

.

I am sure many will offer the same advice. You can't compare the RL and GS 350 to a 550. Comparing a 6 cyl. to an 8 is, well, just wrong. Especially those two cars which are not known for their sportiness. The RL and 350 are fine cars and will provide better gas mileage (I don't have the #'s for the 550 as I have a 535) but won't be as much fun to drive. It all depends what you are looking for. You may want to consider the M if you don't want to spend as much but want a sportier ride.

gerrysb · September 2007

We're looking at purchasing a '98 528I with about 58K miles on it from the original owner. It's in almost excellent condition other than a major scuff on the lower fender. Always serviced at the dealer, no accidents, etc. with a clean carfax record. We're also looking at a '98 Volvo S90 also low mileage, 50K miles, excellent conditon. Does anyone know of any major issues on the 528I or the volvo. We just sold a '95 530I with 160K mi. We loved it. We're leaning toward the BMW but would like some input.

bucca4us · November 2007

Hello,

I'm looking at older BMWs for sale. Which is the better option... an older car with less miles or a newer car with more.

'94 BMW 525i w/ 102,000 miles. $3900 Blue Book $6,045

or

'98 BMW 528i w/ 175,000 miles. $4795 Blue Book $7925

Both vehicles are in very good condtion. Assuming I'm have no personal preference to either, which makes more sense from a financial and reliability standpoint? Which would be more inclined to need repairs in the near future?

Thanks,
Stephen

roadburner · November 2007

Assuming I'm have no personal preference to either, which makes more sense from a financial and reliability standpoint? Which would be more inclined to need repairs in the near future?

I'd lean toward the E39 528i, only because I think it's one of the finest large cars BMW has ever built. That said, I'd say to decide which one YOU prefer and then have it inspected by a good BMW tech. Once you know what may need repair you can make a much more informed decision.

smithsonga · November 2007

Has anyone had success with LeaseTrader or the online lease companies like Fleetrates or LuxuryMotors etc?

Also, I had a used car salesman recommend a long term (like 7 year) on a used 5 series...and said in 3 years, you can trade in for a newer used car again and have equity built up. Do you really think using a 7 year loan, you would have equity after 3 years of payments? and not upside down? for example, I can get a 2007 550i for about 50k with 10k miles....how much value would it drop in 3 years, 30k more miles?

beemerplt · November 2007

I have to agree w/Roadburner, the e34's are very nice but BMW consistently evolves. So the e39 is a logical choice. I just totaled my 94 540 and am still looking for the right e39 to replace it. Don't worry about mileage to a degree, focus on maintenance. All BMW's are good for at least 200,000 miles when maintained.

coop9 · November 2007

Mileage is definitely more important. I bought a 1997 528 last year that had 162,000 miles on it and since lst year, I have had to have the heads rebuilt (4000.00) replace the catalytic converter (1900.00) plus and about 2500.00 of other misc things. Before I bought the car, I had a pre-purchase inpection done at an import place and it checked out fine but, the next time I would take it to a BMW dealer for that inspection because, they know their cars best.

I do love to drive it because no other car can handle the road like a BMW and the brakes are off the hook. I also have a mercedes and between the two cars and putting premium gas in both, I may trade the BMW for something with lower maintenance cost. Having two high maintenance cars is not fun.

pstse · December 2007

Hi,
I am looking at these two cars. Here're the stats
2004 530i CPO warrenty til' Sept 2010. It has 36K miles asking for 30K.
2005 530i warrenty til' Nov 2008. Not a CPO. It only has 20K miles asking for 32K.

Assume both cars have the same spec, what would you pick? Since ext warrenty last til Sept 2010, would I be better off picking up the 2004 CPO? Or go with the low mileages newer car (actually, I believe the 05 is only 2 month *newer* than the 04) since it has less wear and tear...

Thoughts?
P

530ir1150r · December 2007

If everything else is equal, it is probably worth $2000 to get 16,000 miles. Other things to consider though are:

Check maintenance records on both cars; any BMW dealer should be able to access this information with the VIN #s;

Find out if either car or both were leased; probably both;

If both cars were leased and only maintained to "free" services; the CPO car makes more sense the closer you will be to 100,000 miles when the CPO warranty expires.

Chances are either car will be fine.

pstse · December 2007

Hi 530ir1150r,
Thanks for your input. Yes, both are lease returns. As to svc record, I tried checking with local dealer and they refuse to reveal the recording citing privacy issue (Sign!)

Do you have any ballpark figure on how much $$ should set aside annually on wear/pair for these types of cars?

TIA
P

530ir1150r · January 2008

Their refusal to reveal maintenance history tells me their is little if any history to reveal.

My personal experience with my 2002 530i SP, 5 speed and Premium Package is:

2002; $ 117.59
2003; $ 43.38
2004; $1819.35 (new tires and wheel repair)
2005: $1744.21 (new tires)
2006; $1609.38 (preventive radiator replacement)
2007: $3185.51 (brake problem, snow tires and wheels).

I think you can expect $1500-$2000 per year. Automatics probably will be more expensive over time. Also, remember that extended warranties and maintenance plans would only have saved me $1400, not counting deductibles.

I just had my oil changed at 105k and the dealer advises the belts need changed ($250) and the front brakes and rotors need replaced soon ($650).

bristol2 · January 2008

Hi all,

Currently excited about a 530i with 31k miles, 6-sp manual (manual is a 'must have' for me) for $27,998.

Questions:
I assume it is a lease return. When you guys (Shipo & 530ir) refer to 'only free maintenance being done', what is the disadvantage suggested by that comment? I thought all maintenance for a that reliable?

I am going from a loaded v6 Accord sedan with 6-speed, giving up approx 20 hp with the move to the BMW. Will I be disappointed by the get up and go?

shipo · January 2008

"I assume it is a lease return. When you guys (Shipo & 530ir) refer to 'only free maintenance being done', what is the disadvantage suggested by that comment? I thought all maintenance for a that reliable?"

I'm not sure I understand the question. Could you please rephrase it?

"I am going from a loaded v6 Accord sedan with 6-speed, giving up approx 20 hp with the move to the BMW. Will I be disappointed by the get up and go?"

Will you be dissappointed? I doubt it. Even if it is a tad slower than your Accord (and it may very well not be, BMW is very conservative with their HP ratings), I suspect that the overall driving experience will be so far superior to the Honda that you won't even notice.

Best Regards,
Shipo

bristol2 · January 2008

I'm not sure I understand the question. Could you please rephrase it?

I guess what I'm trying to ask is, should I be more cautious knowing that the car I'm looking at was a returned lease?
Also, I have read a couple of times about BMWs being certified beyond the usual warranty, should I assume that would only be true for cars that were bought? I'm assuming a leasee would have no interest in an extended warranty.

shipo · January 2008

I think I've found where you've posted your questions. ;-)

I wouldn't worry about buying a lease return BMW simply because the maintenance during the lease period is free so the chances are extremely good that any lease return vehicle has been maintained properly. If you're not sure, typically the dealer will print out the entire service history of the car.

By buying a used BMW from a BMW dealer, there is a good chance the car has been CPOed (setup as a "Certified PreOwned vehicle), and as such it will come with a limited 100,000 mile warranty. Said warranty isn't as good as the bumper to bumper warranty of the new cars, however, it covers most of the expensive bits. I believe that you can opt to buy both a fully B2B warranty as an extra cost item (I don't recommend this) as well as an extended maintenance plan that covers all maintenance up to 100,000 miles. The extended maintenance plan is a pretty good deal, especially if you aren't inclined to do a lot of your own maintenance.

Best Regards,
Shipo

Buying a used 5 Series

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