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Comments
Nelson Mazda in Nashville; could not be happier with the experience. Negotiations completed primarily via email, a fair price. Car in beautiful shape when I arrived. Smooth paperwork, no suprises. Introduction to the service guys, and a follow-up email the same day...
Nice.
Thx in advance!
Jeff B.
Well, here's my 2 cents...
I'll start by saying I'm not in the St Louis area, but here was my experience almost exactly 2 months ago... Bought a base FWD Sport (exactly like yours less the pwr seat) for $17,435 ($7000 off MSRP of 24,435). This was an advertised promo, so no haggling was required. That seemed to be a pretty smokin price, as I did not see other dealers willing to match, and have not seen that low an offer advertised since.
I have read here that incentives are constantly changing. In addition, as 08 inventory decreases, the incentives may actually decrease towards year-end. Kind of opposite of what I've typically heard, "Best time to buy is year end", etc.
So that said, there's certainly no harm in shopping your current offer, and seeing if anyone else will beat it. Also, I see this CX-7 board has not been too active lately for whatever reason. I know the CX-9 board has been much more active, including posts by a couple Mazda sales folks. So you may want to pose this same question on the CX-9 board and see if you get a response... Just a thought.
BTW, when purchasing accessories, I would visit MedCenter Mazda website. They offer the best prices & free shipping.
Thx for the reply! I'm also surprised there's so little discussion in not just this cx-7 thread but all the cx-7 threads! Anyway, congrats on getting such a great price -- kinda motivates me to counter-offer more aggressively. Unfortunately, there are only 4 '08 cx-7's in a 100 mile radius of St. Louis that are left, so I think the decrease in inventory may be playing a role, as you suspected. However, I'm not in a position where I have to buy, so I think I will post in the cx-9 forum as you suggested and see what happens. thanks again!
jeff
I know when I bought in October, my dealer alone had at least 6 or more. I did also notice the one I bought had been sitting on the lot since April. Interesting too, was the sunny Saturday afternoon I stopped by to look at the vehicle, I was the ONLY customer on the ENTIRE LOT!!!! It was eerie. This is a HUGE Ford/Mazda dealer and it was a ghost town... except for me. Saw the downturn in auto sales right before my eyes. Good luck with the purchase!
ok, fellas, here's the deal I have sitting before me -- new 2008 Sport FWD, only option is power driver seat. MSRP is $24,735. Internet sales mgr has quoted me $19,427 ($5308 off sticker). (no trade in -- cash deal). I'm in the St. Louis MO area. Can anyone let me know if that's a steal or if you're in the same area and have gotten a better price recently on a 2008 (or 2009), similarly equipped
Hi Jeffb1,
Here's another purchase price experience to help you gauge your above deal. I had purchased a new 08' Touring model w/Bose-Moonroof for $20.2k + TTL about 1.5 months ago. That's approx $7.5k off msrp. Hope that helps you out with your purchase. Good Luck!
Jeff B.
Not to veer too far off the subject, but just curious -- what % city/hwy driving do you do and what's your observed mpg so far?
Thx for your help!
Jeff
I see that you wrote no cash is included in this quote (19,427), does that mean that this offer is still eligible for either the $3750 or the 0%...I have an email quote of 20K which includes the $3750 and I feel they can still do better.....I argued that Mazda is only offering 0% on CX-7, no cash in lieu, but they keep arguing that it is not true...Please keep us updated about your 18.5K offer...Thanks
Jeff
THANKS !
No offense, and I admit I am not an all out "expert" when it comes to finance, but if there is no rebate in lieu of the 0% financing, why in the world would you pay cash? Exercise and build your credit, take the 19k you were going to use and invest it (heck, in this economy you may even make $5 or 6 dollars over the years financed :P )
Keep your cash first emergencies if you don't want to invest it, but don't give up interest free financing unless there is something being taken away (like a rebate).
Now, if there is a rebate vs. low APR deal, don't EVER take the low APR, take the rebate. That's Econ 101 stuff.
-Shawn
If I recall, didn't you spend sometime at a dealership? If so, can you maybe shed some light on why just 2 months ago, folks (aka me) were getting deals on the 08's that were roughly $7K off MSRP (17400 = 24400-7000)? Now as year end approaches, I would expect deals on 08's to be getting better. But instead I'm seeing prices $2K MORE?? Especially with the market the way is, I'm trying to understand the rationale behind them decreasing the incentives...
25,000 msrp
21,670 price
3,330 discount
Hope that helps.
Jeff B.
Thx!
Jeff
Yeah, not to rain on the parade, but I think the key words here are "up to". I received similar promos from various dealers when I was buying, only to find out the max discount was only applicable on a) loaded vehicles b) certain colors or c) 1 unit only, "and it just sold" :P -- ended up finding a dealer offering $7K off on ALL 08 CX-7's and pulled the trigger.
Back to the point- find the 2008 you want, get the invoice, and work from what we discussed a few pages back. You are not going to get any more off unless the dealer takes money out of his pocket and gives it to you for a loss or you have a trade and you can get him to step up (but again, not in this market). Or, wait 10.5 months and do this all over again....and hope there is a bank left to finance it.
- :shades:
I spent quite a lot of time around dealerships and my family still owns multiple (I think 22, depends on if you do physical location or brand). Anyway, I am the black sheep that didn't stay in the family business. I am still very much a car and motorcycle (just about anything that's loud, fast or goes boom, and doesn't require swinging, balls, etc).
What has happened is the dealer support on 2008's is gone. Zip. Nada. Vamanos. Outta there. When I got my wife's 08 Sport (you can probably search the for the post to get the date), dealer support had just been cut. Dealers at that time (at least the smart ones) "bought" the vehicles (when a dealer does this, its not really "buying" the vehicle, he is just paying the floorplanned amount and collecting all available incentives). This becomes his new "net net" (absolute bottom line, what the owes on it himself at that time). My wifes had just been "bought" by the dealer the day before, and it scored me not only all his incentives but the Mazda loyalty I otherwise wouldn't have been eligible for. I also got a third incentive I did not know about. All my pricing is disclosed in another (earlier) post and another member here was called and verified and may have bought one himself.
Most of the American manufacturers work this way (for now, I expect drastic changes). New model year comes out, dealer "buys" the cars (they are floorplanned- like one big car loan but for all the cars and worked a little differently). Usually, there is little to no incentive on the new year's models. Especially if it is a new model or an easy sell. If it's got a decent mark-up or slow (even in just that region), there may be a small incentive. Incentives then change throughout the year depending on sales. High gas prices? SUV's have $10k customer cash. Like I said in an earlier example, when Ford was close to the unbeatable Honda for highest volume selling car of the year in the early 90's, the incentives were so high we could give a free Fiesta with each Taurus purchase and still make some cash. Advertising- I just don't understand the human mind sometimes.
Anyway, from when the new models come out until early spring, the dealer pays invoice (all dealers have the same invoice price, any dealer that says he gets his cheaper because he buys in volume is flat out lying). Whenever he sells a vehicle, he reports the sale, it comes off the floorplan, and the manufacturer pays him ~3% for advertising, interest, lot fees, etc. There may be other incentives that come and go depending on how a model is moving. Once people start thinking next model year, that ~3% goes to ~5% and incentives usually go up a bit. This is hen you see the "end of year clearance deals". These deals usually do rise a bit (again, depending on sales volume), but the time comes (usually around Aug) that dealer support is cut for the previous model year. No more rebates, incentives, nothing. if it's sitting on your lot, you not only owe net (straight invoice), but all the floorplan interest, the space it took up, lot fees (cleaning, charging the battery, etc). 120 days is usually the magic number, no one wants a car over 120 days (too many reasons to list here).
So, (ramble mode off), how come, when there are 2009's on the lot, are you only seeing deals that are more expensive than what we got a few months ago? Simple- the dealer gambled and did not 'buyout" the vehicle and he can't go lower without literally paying out of pocket. Let's just say I may have seen a 1989 rust/gold colored Chevy Celebrity EuroSport (stop drooling :P ) sitting on the lot, brand new, in 1991.Dealer owed invoice. Period. It ended up finally going to a "strange" gentleman who had an older Celebrity to trade, was upset they didn't make it any longer, and a dealer several hundred miles away saw it on our inventory sheet (through the DX program). He drove the several hundred miles to see it, fell in love (musty smell -the car, not him- and all), and bought it. the dealer sold it for about 50% of invoice (told you dad), but made up for way too much of it on the back end (yes, he really could sell refrigerators to Eskimos- poor guy is probably still making payments). Money was lost, but it could have been worse. The car had a $2500 cash bounty (dealer sanctioned of course) for like a year. And yes, the new owner got a full new car warranty (the good 5/50 before GM went 3/36) that started when he took ownership.
So, where did the 2k go on the 2008's? Mazda isn't offering support on the 2008's any more- at least not what they were. If the dealer didn't act on it, he owes what he owes. MAC might do a 0% or lease deal, but that's we said buy now! (do;t forget, you are losing residual/MF too if you are a lease guy).
Hope that helps.
I ask this b/c when I bought a couple months ago, the incentive was flat $7K off any 08 CX-7. I called my salesguy a few days ago to check current incentives on remaining 08's, and all he provided was low financing rates and lease promos. Perhaps the ones they have left were not purchased?
Regardless, thanks agin for all the info Shawn!
So, where did the 2k go on the 2008's? Mazda isn't offering support on the 2008's any more- at least not what they were. If the dealer didn't act on it, he owes what he owes. MAC might do a 0% or lease deal
I'm curious -- once the dealer has 'bought' the car, and there are no more incentives or money coming from mazda, it seems like he'd be even more motivated to move it since every day is another day of carrying costs out of his pocket and there's no hope of getting any support from mazda. What happens when he gets to the point where he realizes he's not going to get enough cash for the vehicle to cover what he's got in it? Does he take the car to wholesale auction or something, or does he redouble efforts to sell it, even below his cost, just to get rid of it?
BTW, after I made my "$7k off msrp" offer to the dealer yesterday, i've had no email response at all. c'est la vie, i suppose...
Thx!
jeff
Things are bad, guys. They were bad a few years ago when I was more involved in my families dealerships. I can only imagine what's going to go down over the next few months. We already say Chrysler try to be saved by Daimler-Benz, only to have them say "I give up" in like two years. GM is ready to ditch Hummer, Saturn, Saab, and Pontiac in order to get bail-out cash (but keep Buick, whose average owner is 102- sorry, but c'mon. It's bad enough they killed Olds just as they had a decent product). I can only wonder what would have happened if the big three had (and I know this is a sore spot for an GM die-hard's here) taken an approach like Ferdinand Piech did with VW/Audi/Etc. Instead of building cars that competed against each other, they could have shared more technology and stopped duplication. Seriously, if GMC and GM Trucks weren't what they are, I don't think the F-150 would have been the best selling truck all these years.
A little more rambling on the way it works (worked)....While the cars are on "floorplan" (floorplan, again, is basically where one [hopefully only one, but that's another story] bank, be it a local bank, MAC, FMC, GMAC, ETC, "owns" all the dealers cars on the lot. There are different benefits with different banks, there's some forgiving in tough times, etc), the dealer is paying a type of prorated interest based on the invoice of the car. For example, when the car comes off the line and gets loaded to be delivered, the bank holding the floorplan is notified and sent a copy of the invoice. The invoice cost is added to the floorplan amount the dealer is paying on. When a vehicle gets sold, he reports it as sold and the bank holding the floorplan expects a check for that invoice amount. So, basically, the dealer really doesn't "buy" the cars that sit on the lot. they are financed (sometimes even used inventory can be floorplanned). The longer the car sits on the lot, the more floorplanning for that vehicle costs, and the less of that incentive money (like the initial 3% I mentioned) the dealer is going to get.
As times started getting tough (and this goes back to the 90's), the goal was to keep new inventory on the lot as short as possible to keep floorplan costs down, etc, that's why you started seeing all the "1$ over invoice deals". You really are/were paying $1 over what the dealer paid- invoice, but, he got some back in incentives after it was sold. The faster the inventory moved, the more of that incentive money he got. Consumers were getting smart, the internet made getting invoice price (as well as dealer incentives) easier, so many dealers just threw up their hands and sold new inventory for basically cost.
Now, some of us live in states that allow those ridiculous "doc fees". Most dealers here in NC charge about $499. These are 100% BS. The costs of the DMV processing is minimal at best, this is a way to recoup some of the money when selling at cost. I'm not a jerk, but I usually ask the dealer to admit the fee is bogus as a mater of principle. I say I know he needs to make a profit, but just be honest about it. Not every state allows this (I know my families dealerships are forbidden from doc fees- except actual cost which is documented on the buyers order AND sales contract, guaranteed trade-in values, and a bunch of the other marketing shenanigans).
Anyway, it just became easier to sell the car for invoice (well, a $1 over), get the incentive money, and try to steal the trade. The "program car", aka "off-lease", in all reality "Previous Avis/National/Enterprise rental bought at a dealer auction" and educated consumer "killed" the new car market.
Sadly, this is not just the big three. If you look at sales internationally, they are dying as well. BMW just reported it's biggest sales drop ever.
Even the racing series are losing out...look at all the manufacturers that are dropping...Honda is out of F1 (been there since the 60's), Audi's out of LeMan's.....
Scary, stuff.
Ok, hopefully I answered your question (and then some :P).
[The actual answer, although it may ramble some too- sorry, long day]
Invoice. Invoice, again, is the "net" price of the car. It's the actual base price, plus options (factory installed), minus any package discounts (the key to buying and selling right there- knowing how to order and buy the right packages- I've seen "work trucks" with a bolt action six shooter and just air over vinyl price out within 2k of a fully loaded 1500 series truck), plus the destination charge (set price for that region/state). That is the "invoice" price, and it has a corresponding MSRP. you can get invoice right her on Edmund's or on man of the other car sites (but what else do you need with a site like this?). There may be other charges: A dealer made "add-on" sticker, aka a "bump sticker" (not legal in all states and you do NOT have to accept it, just say you don't want those options- if they give you a hard time, its probably not a place you want to do business with any way), Federal/State fees such as a "Gas Guzzler" tax, etc- but these are not considered part of the "invoice" price.
Invoice typically goes up by a few percent every year. If there is a major change to the body style or standard options, it may go up considerably. At the same time, poor sales the previous year, a good recoup on the tooling costs, etc, can actually make the invoice go down a few dollars (this is usually kept quiet as long as possible for obvious reasons...).
The 2008 Mazda CX7 Sport FWD had an MSRP of $23,750.00, invoice of $22,225.00, and a destination charge of $635.00 (note most MSRP listings have destination charge included, so you may see a little variance).
The 2009 Mazda CX7 Sport FWD has and MSRP of $23,900.00, invoice of $22,365.00, and a destination charge of $670.00.
(Note, the invoice price did not change from 2007 to 2008).
So, what do you get for your ~$140 increase on the 2009 Sport? Some more available options (not standard)on the Sport model, illuminated vanity mirrors, real leather on the steering wheel instead of vinyl (don't tell PETA), stated (not verified) loss of remote start and parking assist options, and you get an aux/mp3 input and mp3 playing capability. Oh, and a leather/"metal look" gear shift knob instead of plastic (man- if I had only known that a few months ago! :P )
The biggest difference is that, and this may change in this market, you are not going to see the 7k off incentives some of us got a few months ago for 8-10 months- if they come.
Now, as far as the rest of your post.....and this is free advice that is worth what you paid......
-Never buy at the first dealer, especially if you haven't researched (see #2). It will be there later, no matter how many "deals he has working on it". And if it's not, I assure you he'll find you it's twin pretty quickly.
-Don't walk into a de
So, invoice never changes. The dealer "pays" (finances) invoice when it comes off the assembly line, and he technically still owes invoice when it sells, whether that be the day the delivery truck arrives (I've seen people follow a delivery truck in for almost 100 miles because they spotted a vehicle they wanted), or 150 days later when there may be $5k in incentives. While you get those incentives the day you buy, he doesn't get them until the vehicle is reported sold.
The dealer near you could be in several different situations. He may have the 2008's leftover, but was smart enough to "buy" them on the final day on incentives, giving himself that extra $7k-$9k to play with (but the invoice is still the same- don't get too hung up on invoice...that's what the dealer paid and is on his copy of the window sticker most likely in a safe in the sales office. You can buy at invoice and honestly say you bought at "cost", but if there were a few $k in rebates and incentives, you left money on the table - and in his pocket). I am not sur ehow things are in your area, but around Charlotte, there are several "Big 3" (unfortunately soon to be "Small to Middle 1 or 2") that sell all their new inventory at $1 over invoice from the day the hit the lot (usually excluding Corvette, Viper, special editions, etc....usual fine print). How do they stay in business at $1 a sale? Well, they obviously wouldn't. They usually have that made up $499 "doc fee" (there's a little profit), and then they get the advertising hold back when it's reported sold (around 3% until close to the new model year, then jumps to 5% or so). Then, hopefully, you have a trade and/or finance. Even if you trade in a beater they can expect to pick up $500 or so from a wholesaler. If its clean, they can try to low balll you a bit and make the money on the sale of yours instead. And then there is financing....F & I as it was called when I was there (finance and insurance). If there are any deals I "regret" (as in guilt) from my car days, they average 5:1 in the F&I office compared to the sales floor.
Hope that helps.
-Shawn
if you don't mind my asking, where in indiana did you buy? Were you able to locate many leftover '08s?
Thx.
Jeff
I hope that helps.
Todd
I own a CX-7 GT-AWD and I am currently gettting about 15(city) /19(highway) MPG.
Richie
Richie
at the time, a few folks on the board speculated as to how / why they would make such a low offer. one talked about how dealers get a chance to 'buy' from the mfr at cost less incentives and can then remove from the floorplan.
i guess i ramble about all this for a couple reasons...
1) i have not seen too many others picking up new CX-7's for $7K off MSRP, making your $6K off offer sound attractive.
2) while it never hurts to try & get them lower, it would not surprise me if they're already there.
3) of course, w/ the current environment, who knows what type of mfr incentives are currently being offered just to move any vehicle!