2007 Toyota Avalon

raleighwolf · May 2006

I am currently driving my second Avalon. A 2002 XLS with 110K on it. I am thinking it might be a good time to get a new car. I drove the ES350 Saturday and did not like the center console but loved everything else about it.

IF the AVALON would put a Navi in it that is usable and Bluetooth like the RL....I would just by my Third Avalon.

dickh2 · May 2006

Raleigh...We are both going down the same path with our current 2002 xls...we also drove the ES350 and we were not crazy about the dash and some of the things we wanted come only in some packages pushing the car to 40K...we were able to find out a few things about the 07 Avalons...no chrome grill as std. ex. on limited, possible touch screen nav, and six speed in Limited...have you looked for info on the 07.Avalon and if so what did you find?

smith1 · May 2006

....for 2007? That doesn't sound right -- if it's coming at all, it should be on all trims.

dickh2 · May 2006

Smithy...The six speed info was from the dealerships inventory manager....you would think they would have the correct info?

smith1 · May 2006

Far be it from me to suggest that a statement made by a car dealer wasn't the gospel truth

All I know is, given that *every* V6 Camry has the six-speed, it wouldn't make sense not to put it in every Avalon.

rodc2 · May 2006

On the limited there are three unlighted, but identical switches placed side by side that do completely different things. I'm talking about the fuel filler door switch, the trunk opener switch, and the electric sunshade switch. This is a really dumb human engineering design flaw on the part of Toyota engineers.

How many of you will admit to trying to hit the sunshade switch while cruising down the freeway and opening the trunk or fuel filler door instead? One cannot see these switches clearly as the steering wheel obstructs ones line of sight, they are unlighted, and are identical except for the writing which can't be seen in any event!

In the aviation business, human engineering in cockpit design has been a critical element for years. For example, A number of years ago a particular type of fighter aircraft was being lost with no mechanical failures, just prior to landings. The cause was found to be the placement of a communications radio on a side panel which forced the pilot to turn his head to the side and look down in order to change a frequency given while in a descending turn to final. This induced vertigo when the pilot looked back up and forward, causing several pilots to lose control and crash. Moving the radio to the forward center panel solved the problem.

Over time, most gear handles became shaped like wheels and most flap handles became shaped like flaps for obvious reasons. Today, many thousands of man hours are spent on control placement and design of modern aircraft cockpits.

I'm not saying Toyota should design their "cockpits" to the same detail as airplanes, but even a little human engineering can go a long way!

tjc78 · May 2006

I have an XLS so I don't have the sunshade, but the buttons are differenciated by a "bump" on one but not the other. This helps me find the right one just by feel.

havalongavalon · May 2006

In the XLS the fuel filler door button is also more laterally placed, corresponding to the door location on the side of the car; this helps me distinghish them.

But I totally agree with rodc2 that these buttons need to be moved to a visible location, illuminated and perhaps further differentiated. There is no reason to hide these buttons.

dolfan1 · May 2006

"Yeah, and that's how Toyota sells the ES, by not making every feature available on the Avalon. If they didn't reserve some of this stuff for the Lexus nameplate, very few people would pay 38K for what is essentially a glorified Camry."

I've also noticed the Lex's output is 306hp vs the Camry's 268 from what is essentially the same engine. I wondered why not have the Camry with the 306 horses, but as you say, then why buy the ES?
Heck, when you think about it, if the 306 were available in the Avalon that'd really take away ES sales!

smith1 · May 2006

The ES350 is rated at 272hp, not 306.

bwia · May 2006

Is it my imagination or is the Toyota Aurion the same as the 2007 Camry? Because of poor Avalon sales in Australia, Toyota was forced to introduce the Aurion which is made in both left and right drive. It is a full-size car but looks much more attractive than the Avalon. I wish Toyota would use this body styling for the U.S. market.

dolfan1 · May 2006

Oops. Got the ES & IS mixed up. My bad.

dolfan1 · May 2006

Does anyone know at what point info will be released on the 07 Av? Seems like it would be fairly soon.

motownusa · May 2006

Probably late August or early September

shg · May 2006

I have been comparing the Avalon Limited to the Lexus GS300 and the Infiniti M35. I am pleasantly surprised at how well the Avalon holds up, for about $10K less... However, there are a few significant deficiencies which I would add to my wish list to improve the Avalons position.

1. Power tilt and telescoping steering wheel WITH MEMORY (power system is now available on the camry)
2. Blue tooth (a must for todays hi tech cars)
3. Tire Pressure Monitor System (also available on the camry)
4. Speed sensitive volume control
5. Reverse tilt down outside mirrors
6. Suspension/handling improvements (much needed)
Additional Optional Choices
7. Factory rear view backup system (sonar or video type)
8. Lane departure warning system
9. Six speed transmission (Only if it makes some improvement in performance, otherwise, what difference does it make)

The first 6 items can be added with very little cost increase to the vehicle (most of these features Toyota already has available), still making it an excellent and competitive value.
As far as all the comparisons to the Camry, clearly the Avalon is a larger vehicle, and I believe it can/should discriminate itself even further from the Camry by adding a few more advanced features (particularly on the Limited) further justifying the cost increase.
There are people who are making comparisons of the Avalon to the Lexus ES 350; this seems incorrect to me. These vehicles are not in the same class. The Camry compares to the ES350, but the Avalon compares to the GS300 or the Infiniti M35, as I have done. Just my personal viewpoint.....

smith1 · May 2006

Many of your suggestions appeared in the first few posts of this thread.

Camry does not have power tilt/telescope steering wheel.. This, along with memory, would be nice on Avalon but realistically Toyota is likely to reserve these niceties for the Lexus line. They have to give their Lexus clientele SOME reason to spend thousands more!

Avalon (at least the upper trims) and ES350 are in the same PRICE class, even though the Avalon is bigger. Basically, Toyota gives you two choices in the upper $30K price range: a large car (Avalon) or a smaller but more luxurious car (ES). By the same token, most would argue that the GS and M35 are NOT in the same class as Avalon, being $10K more expensive, and would expect these two cars to offer some features that are not available on Avalon.

oregon · May 2006

Regardless of all the features mentioned, the most obvious difference between these cars would be the superior rear wheel drive systems of the Lexus and Infiniti.

smith1 · May 2006

Good point. Some argue that the Avalon should move to RWD, but I doubt Toyota could produce a RWD car with the interior space of the Avalon at the current Avalon price points. It would have to be a de-contented GS, rather than a stretched Camry -- and the new GS doesn't have nearly the rear seat room of the Avalon. For most of Avalon's target market, the handling advantages of RWD would not be worth the extra money and/or loss of rear seat space.

shg · May 2006

Your comments are good. I agree, looks like the Camry has manual tilt/telescope steering wheel, just like the Avalon, not power (my mistake). Whether this is a feature that needs to be reserved only for the Lexus line might be another matter... I am not so convinced. The Avalon already has memory for the seats and mirrors, just need to add the steering to make it complete.

As for class, you submit that class is defined by price. I submit 'class' is also defined by size (this is certainly the case whenever magazines or auto companies compare vehicles). So the Avalon, GS and M35 are certainly in the same size class, but have different price points. So a buyer can decide they want this size car and pick which price point. (This is further supported by a issue of Consumers Report (maybe 4 or 5 mos ago) that reported on GS, M35 and RL as well as A6 and Cadillac, then at the end added the Avalon as a value buy to this line-up).

I also contend, that even if you added the first items I listed to the Avalon, there is still strong motivation to purchase the other vehicles, as these features do not make the cars equal. There is a long list of other items that are big motiviations for purchasing the premier Lexus and Infiniti vehicles. So there doesn't have to be a big hesitation by Toyota to add these features to preserve their flagship. In fact, I am sure some of the features will be added ie bluetooth and TPMS..

shg · May 2006

It is interesting that you refer to RWD as 'superior'. Again, if you read the Consumer Reports article from 4 or 5 mos ago, it points out that there are advantages to FWD over RWD for certain applications, such as driving in the snow, or avoiding wheel spin on accelaration.
My point is not to make a case for FWD being better, I just ask the question. Should it always be presumed that RWD is better than FWD???

neil5 · May 2006

I have to agree. I looked at the cars you mentioned and price tag approached mid 40's for starters. The dash in the Av is electroluminescent as in GS and IS Lexus. I am installing BU camera as in Lexus for 300-400dollars. Ventilated seats same! Forget the wheel pressure monitor these are a terror to get replaced and working with new tires without going to dealer...I love tirerack! As for me, coming from BMW 5 the avalon, the car is 90% of what I liked in the BMW. The cornering and suspension are different, but as I get older, I like the Av. feel. I have too many tickets

smith1 · May 2006

No, it is not the case that RWD is absolutely "better" than FWD. Both systems have their advantages and disadvantages. Few would dispute that RWD is superior in terms of absolute handling and cornering prowess, and in eliminating torque steer with powerful engines. You are not going to see a FWD car from BMW, Porsche or Mercedes any time soon. But FWD has advantages in simplicity, packaging efficiency and winter traction.

I think the best of all possible worlds is full-time AWD, which at its best offers even better handling than RWD and better all-weather performance than FWD. AWD systems are getting ever more sophisticated and reliable, and as the hardware comes down in cost, they may someday become the standard on all but econobox sedans. The main reason there aren't more AWD sedans right now is that they are generally engineered from RWD platforms, and FWD platforms still dominate the sedan market except for the uppermost levels. The Ford 500 is an interesting exception in the mass-market price range, having FWD and AWD options -- too bad it has a dud engine.

vyrenee · June 2006

Make leather available on the XL

smith1 · June 2006

"Make leather available on the XL"

Good idea, although aftermarket leather can be arranged through dealers.

captain2 · June 2006

from size and demographic perspectives a RWD Avalon would certainly poach more LS sales (as opposed to IS/GS), it already does to those that value the extra $25k and don't need the label. Given that Toyota already has the hardware to do the engine/trans. either way, it would not cost them much to do this in the 07 from a production/engineering cost standpoint. While it is true that the 'premium' sedans are almost exclusively RWD/AWD, that doesn't necessarily mean that FWD is significantly cheaper to produce. It is, more simply, how Toyota is going to make more money - $35k Avalons or $60k LSs, and points of differentiation between the two.

vyrenee · June 2006

Thanks-while I realize that you can, I am reluctant to go to aftermarket given the airbags in the seat. I am not comfortable that they will not be damaged/altered.

dzuba · June 2006

Anyone know when they are coming out?

Sure wish they had Bluetooth on them...........

smith1 · June 2006

It's almost certain that the JBL audio system will include Bluetooth for 07, since the new Camry's JBL does.

I'd like to see Bluetooth on the base audio system too, but that's much less likely.

neil5 · June 2006

Today reported that Avalon Safest on Side Impact Data compare that to others....5(star)

badgerfan · June 2006

Actually, if you go to the IIHS web site and look at the full PDF of the results press release, Impala edges it by just a tidge.

neil5 · June 2006

Avalon takes Top Honors: Safety http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/06/19/011831.html

ctl · June 2006

It is no secrete that leather seat being the most must-have "killer options", and that's why the XL trim doesn't have that, so they can bump those who want it to higher trim -> higher profit. These things are why Toyota doesn't get its due repect from me. It's set to be the No.1 car maker in the world, yet it is still full of those nitty tricks to squeeze more profit out of every buyer. Not that any carmaker is beyond that (yet), but focus more on making cars and options people really want!

54gradsteds · July 2006

Why not investigate the cost of having an independent shop install leather on the XL? I'll bet the price would be just about the same, and perhaps you might even get a better grade of leather than the shoddy stuff Toyota offers!
You'd have your car back the next day, at the latest!

bobwiley · July 2006

54gradsteds: What vehicles did you use as a comparison when you say Toyota offers "shoddy" leather? I drove an Acura TL, Infiniti G35, Lexus ES330 and a Buick Lucerne---the leather in our 06 Limited is st least equal to and in many cases better than the aforementioned cars. I find the leather soft, comfortable and great looking. Diguise the name plate from the average person and put them in the 5 cars---then see which ones receive top rating. I just don't know of many other cars that offer what the Avalon does for the price--faster than BMW 5 Series, 30 + MPG Hwy and 26+ MPG local driving around the hilly Ozarks, limo rear seat, sofa comfortable front seats, church quiet and a smooth, comfortable ride.
Bob

54gradsteds · July 2006

Bob, I based my opinion on the actual appearance of the seats, specifically the perforated leather. The actual DESIGN of the pattern turns me off. I take issue with a company that can't seem to offer seats that aren't wrinkled, and have so many pleat-like folds in the back .
My '95 Avalon's leather is MUCH better, in my opinion. At my age, I still don't have a need to have my tush air-conditioned. The perforations will sooner or later fill up with dirt, debris, etc..and, if something gets spilled on it, how in the world do you keep that material (especially if it's a liquid) from penetrating what cushioning there is. Before you say how seldom something like that would be, may I remind you of Murphy's Law?
Have you seen the absolutely beautiful leather seats on the new Azera???? Phil

tjc78 · July 2006

FWIW my '03 Av XL and '00 Solara had perforated leather and looked absolutely perfect after 3 years of use. I can only hope my '06 XLS looks as good without the perforations.

One thing I would like on future Av's and maybe all Toyota's is a thicker steering wheel. It's not a huge deal but it would be nice.

buzz123 · July 2006

While we're on the topic of leather seats, my personal preference is for cloth seats. I have a bad back so I've tried them both and the cloth seats are just more comfortable for my bad back. I'm not trying to convince the world that cloth seats are better than leather. I'm just stating my personal preference based on my bad back. I already bought the '06 Avalon XL because it had the cloth seats. However, I would have liked to get some additional options like the JBL audio system and the nav system. The thing I'd like to see on the '07 Avalon is to either add these as available options for the XL or add cloth seats as an option on the other trims like the XLS or Limited. My guess is that, although I'm probably in the minority, I'm probably not the only one that prefers the cloth seats over the leather. Another minor gripe about the XL is the silver plastic trim they used instead of the simulated wood plastic that's on the XLS and Limited. I definitely like the look of the wood better but it's not an option on the '06 XL so it would be nice if it was an option on the '07 XL. Of course, if they added cloth seats as an option on the XLS and Limited, it would solve this problem too.

metamel · July 2006

I thought that the 2007 Avalon prices was supposed to be available Saturday or Monday (7-3-06), but I haven't seen any thing on Edmunds site. Does anyone know when this info might become available and where? Also, I'm not sure if the 6-speed automatic transmission is going to added to 07 Avalons; does anybody? Thanks

bobwiley · July 2006

Phil: I guess I must be lucky regarding the seats--I do not have too many "wrinkles"--I do agree about the perforations--Murphy is a Devil!! Didn't look at any Hyundai's---I've heard they're looking great and like the Japanese, soon the Koreans will build the best value and highest quality cars! Makes me sick I live in a country that's an industrial giant, full of ingenious people and I can't get a US car that matches our Limited. Keep the "handy wipes" close by--just in case Ole Murph is in the area!!
Bob

54gradsteds · July 2006

Bob,

What irritates me is that I can't order a Limited with non-perforated seats and the Limited extension bolster.
I just received my current issue of Consumer Reports, and was relieved to see that the Azera used regular-grade fuel, then disappointed to read that the mpg numbers are a disappointment.
If Hyundai want to really be "a player", and, based on initial looks at their current models, they surely aim to, then I hope they are reading ALL comments in magazines and forums such as these, and take them to heart. They seem to be just a smidgen away from really getting EVERYTHING right!

bobwiley · July 2006

54gradsteds: Just watch---Hyundai within 3-5 years will be leading the pack---they DO listen and want to improve. FORD, GM & CHRYSLER---ya listening? I drove a Buick Lucerne both 6 & 8 cylinder. Great ride, comfortable seats, nice looking--fit & finish superb--biggest problem, I worried about 1st year reliability and the fact that the 3800 V-6 was no match in performance or MPG to the Avalon. They build the Avalon's in the USA--when are we going to meet and beat the foreign car makers? Good thing I'm not the CEO of any Big 3 car maker--I'd give them a 3 year ultimatum---design and build a TOP QUALITY V-6 family sedan, PW, PL, AC, Cruise, Pwr tilt & telescopic steering wheel, sunroof (w/delete option) 17 " wheels, In-Dash AM-FM 6 Disc CD, 16.5 CF trunk, fold-down rear seats, side, front and knee air bags, 111-112" WB & 195-198 " Long, 37.5 min rear seat legroom, FWD & AWD that gets a TRUE 25+ MPG city and 30+ MPG highway with a 5 Year/60K Mile All Inclusive Warranty, minimize "option Pkg's"---make most everything standard and price the car under $32K MSRP. I'll help ya get started---use an Avalon & Acura Tl as models, get Focus Groups assembled on how to improve the car and build it. Hyundai listened to their owners--then worked on improving the cars!
Bob

james03 · July 2006

I noticed that a lot of people are comparing the 07 camry to the 05' and 06' Avalon. You never know what tricks Toyota has stuffed up there sleeves when it comes to the 07' Avalon. I have a 05' Avalon, and when I found out that the camry has everything the Avalon doesn't I got mad as hell, because for the Avalon to be a higher level car than the Camry it doesn't seem like it. I did hear that the 07' is going to have
- Tire pressure monitoring system
- Bluetooth
-Mp3/Ipod
- 6 speed trans.

I do agree w/ a lot of people in this forum, and I respect their opinions regarding the Avalon and the pros/ cons of it. I do feel like it does need more passenger space, Automatic telescopic steering. I don't think that the radio cover should go anywhere, I think it adds on to the Avalons' Uniqueness. I've compared this car to several " Top of the line cars," such as the BMW 760Li, Maybach 62, and the Mercedes-Benz s600, and w/all honesty this Avalon had more than those cars that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. I think w/the 07' they should include folding side mirrors, i think that they should try and work on making that rear sun shade go up more quietly than it does. I love the dynamic laser cruise control. They should increase the volume of the Nav. system, they should work on the hesitation, and the jerking that the car makes for no apparent reason, other than that I love my Avalon, and like somebody said I think it should be a wider color assortment, I don't have a problem w/the interior colors or the exterior, I just think it should be more.

james03 · July 2006

I actually like the look of the Avalons seats it sure beats the 00' Avalons' because those were flatout u-g-l-y. Wasting something in the seats is more seldom than you think, somebody wasted a 33oz. cup of orange juice in my back seat, it's a long process to clean it, they took the entire seat apart and cleaned it inside out, and it only cost $55 for the entire back row of seats.

metamel · July 2006

When is the 07 Avalon going to be announced? I've heard that it would already be announced by now, but still nothing. It would be a big disappointment if it didn't have 6-sp transmission, because the Camry already has it for its 6-cylinder engine models.

captain2 · July 2006

for the life of me can't understand why everybody seems so excited by the impending 6 speed - must be because more must be better because it will make very little difference to the way the car drives. Is it because it is more economical or somehow provides better acceleration - well, no. Does the engine have more than enough torque to operate fine on even a 3 or 4 speed - well, yes. Will it somehow minimize the gear hunt issues that some Avalon drivers have with the 5 speed - well, maybe not if you keep up with some of the Camry forums and it does give the computer one more gear to hunt through. Is it more mechanically complicated and probably more likely to cause problems - well, haven't heard anything about mechanical problems with the 5 speed, the 6 speed some failures.

oilcan2 · July 2006

Read in the brochures that the 6 speed has 20% fewer parts
than 5 speed.The only thing I would watch is will the 07
Avalon have a higher mpg rating,maybe 22 to 33 as opposed
to 21 to 31,this would give people a reason to buy the 07
over the 06 in my opinion.Just having another gear with
the same mpg does not make sense to me.

smith1 · July 2006

Is it because it is more economical or somehow provides better acceleration - well, no.

How do you know that the 6-speed won't improve acceleration or economy? The new Camry never had a 5-speed, and we have no data on the fuel economy or performance of the 07 Avalon yet. In general, more gears on an automatic tranny do improve fuel efficiency and/or performance, other drivetrain factors being equal. Otherwise we'd all still be driving two or three speeds.

The improvement over the 5 speed will probably be small, of course, but that's the way progress is made -- incrementally. And with gas prices at current levels, I'll take anything.

captain2 · July 2006

How do you know that the 6-speed won't improve acceleration or economy?
well, with no real 07 Avalon specs out yet, I don't - except that it sure didn't help in the smaller and lighter Camry - it is rated the same as our Avs! Fuel economy, BTW, has more to do with engine/revs per mile (rpm at 60 mph, for example) and weight - having the extra gear may not change that at all - given some teething problems Toyota has been having with the 6 speed, the jury is still out on whether it is an 'improvement at all..

captain2 · July 2006

following up on that last post - if you can accept that the lighter and smaller Camry should do a little better on a gallon of gas - but it doesn't - then the logical assumption is that the 6 speed may actually hurt the mileage slightly. How could this be possible? Well, how about differences in the electronic programming of the different transmissions. After 30k miles in my 05, I can tell you that the 5 speed is undoubtedly programmed to hold onto very high gears at low speeds (this largely responsible for the infamous 'hesitation'), reducing engine speeds and maximizing mileage. The Camry 6 speed perhaps not so much so - in the interest of improved drivability? Have noted some 'hesitation' complaints starting to appear on the Camry sites, however

oilcan2 · July 2006

Have heard the es350 is not having any problems,maybe that
has something to do with the 93 octane vs 87 octane theory.

2007 Toyota Avalon

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