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Honda Fit Real World MPG

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Comments

  • cbusfitcbusfit Member Posts: 2
    Just bought an 08 Fit Sport manual - got 33.5 mpg on the first tank and 33.8 on the second. Both were the result of mixed driving, but mainly to and from work from a Columbus suburb to downtown. So far, I am very pleased.
  • igloomasterigloomaster Member Posts: 249
    tanks #3: 33mpg. lots of 'town & country' rural roads up in Maine last weekend... frost heaves, hill climbing, lots of shifting....
  • madams1madams1 Member Posts: 101
    My wife has now gone thru 3 tanks and the average is 29.5 mpg. This is about 60% city and 40% highway. Thinking about increasing the tire pressure a bit, possibly to 38 or 40. I know that most times when you increase the pressure, you increase the road noise and wear on the tires. Does increasing the pressure really make a significant difference in the mileage.

    My son says that if we use the midgrade octane of 89, our mileage would probably increase. The difference in price is about 10-15 cents a gallon or about 1.10 to 1.60 more a fill up.

    Any comments would be appreciated.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    My son says that if we use the midgrade octane of 89, our mileage would probably increase. The difference in price is about 10-15 cents a gallon or about 1.10 to 1.60 more a fill up.

    Your son is absloutely wrong in this case; it is a misconception about mileage being better by using a higher octane. Octane does not refer to the energy level of a fuel, but to its resistance to auto-ignition or detonation (knocking/pinging). Run regular (87) octane.
  • madams1madams1 Member Posts: 101
    Thanks for the reply. Now that I look back, the manuals say to use the 87 octane unless you notice pinging, knocking, etc. I think that I may try to up the tire pressure a bit and see if this makes some difference in the mileage. Also, I have heard some folks report that the mileage seems to get better as more miles are put on the car.
  • tlworkroomtlworkroom Member Posts: 9
    I always keep my tires SLIGHTLY inflated on trips. Supposed to be 32, I set them at 34 so that they'll be about 36-7 when hot. But I wouldn't do much more than that.
    That's one thing I'm very stingy about, adding extra air, don't want to stress tire too much. Altho' my elderly dad had mistakenly put 52# into right front on his car and still drove okay.

    Best example for me about whether adding extra air to tires works or not is when I used to ride 10 spd bike to work. Very thin tires said they'd take up to 90-100#. I could only get up to 90#, but after short time of few hrs later, the air would leak out to stable 60 psi, so had to live with that. But while at 90 psi, the bike ran incredibly easier, because less friction from more rubber meeting road at 60 psi. So similar results would work on a car, generically speaking.

    But I'd be cautious about running tires at 40 psi cold, if supposed to be 32.
    Only trouble I have with keeping tires overinflated while driving in city is that it stiffens the ride, making bumps much harder. So if I'm always in town, then I usually lower air to about 30 to soften bumps.
  • highmiler650highmiler650 Member Posts: 75
    The maximum pressure printed on the outside of tires is perfectly acceptable and safe when cold. It is normal that the pressure goes up a few PSI when hot.
    At higher speeds and when fully loaded 32 PSI is NOT ENOUGH!!
  • igloomasterigloomaster Member Posts: 249
    "At higher speeds and when fully loaded 32 PSI is NOT ENOUGH!!"
    Can you elaborate on this a bit? I frequently drive fully loaded @ highway speeds...have never added air to the tires. Should I?
  • fitisgofitisgo Member Posts: 40
    I own 3 2008 Fit Sports, all have automatic transmission. They are driven as commuter cars, both in-town and on the Interstate. My wife, son, and I have all tried driving our cars with both 100% unleaded (87 octane) and 90% unleaded / 10% ethanol (89 octane). The 100% unleaded typically costs 10 cents per gallon more. The results of our testing show our Fits get 1-2 MPG better fuel economy using 100% unleaded, even though it's normally 10 cents/gallon more expensive (we've done the math on comparing MPG results for both fuels vs. cost-per-gallon of each fuel. So my recommendation is pay a little more per gallon for unleaded gas that is ethanol-free and in the long run you'll actually save money.

    Here's some more fuel for thought. Back a couple years when straight unleaded was $2.00/gallon, super unleaded (the one with 10% ethanol) was 10 cents/gallon less, or $1,90/gallon, at least here in Omaha, NE. Now, when straight unleaded is $3.59/gallon, super unleaded is, guess what STILL only 10 cents/gallon less! If you do the math and straight-line the difference between the 2 fuels at the previous pricing, dived 1.90 by 2.00 (previous difference) = 95% X current straight unleaded cost of 3.59 and you get 3.41. That's what super unleaded should be selling for. However, most gas stations will post super unleaded at 10 cents/gallon less than reg unleaded, or 3,49. That means if you're buying super unleaded at 3.49, you're paying 8 cents/gallon too much. My advice: do the math to see which fuel is actually cheaper, using your area's pricing.
  • highmiler650highmiler650 Member Posts: 75
    Every car I have owned states in the manual to raise the tire pressure when driving at highway speeds and fully loaded. The load carrying ability of your car's tires is greatest when the maximum tire pressure (marked on the tire itself) is used.

    The last few cars I have owned recommend 32PSI for daily driving. This is because the car manufacturer would like the owner of the car to have a pleasant ride.

    For best fuel economy a higher tire pressure is better (up to what you can tolerate because of the harsher ride). Just do not exceed max. recommended pressure.

    The savings in fuel are measurable, in my case the MPG is about 4% better, with 40 PSI versus the recommended 32 PSI.
  • igloomasterigloomaster Member Posts: 249
    cool, thanks for the tip. i didn't notice this in the 08 Fit manual. but I'll try taking the tires up.... got a road trip gig tomorrrow night in Hyannis (Cape Cod MA) so will see how it goes with say, 38 PSI at first. thanks again.
  • kipkkipk Member Posts: 1,576
    Think of an air filled rubber ball. On a flat table the ball has very little surface actually touching the table. If you apply a given amount of weight down on the ball, more of its surface touches the table. Adding some air will lift part of the surface off the table. Decreasing air will allow more surface to touch the table.

    With that in mind:

    If a tire is under inflated for the load it carries it may visually appear to be low on air and the side walls are actually sagging a bit. Slightly more tire may be touching the road. This will lead to premature wear on the outer and inner tread surface while the middle of the tread surface wears less. There is also more resistance to rolling, resulting in poorer mileage. Handling on curves, corners and emergency maneuvers will be sluggish. However in ice, snow, mud and such, the traction will be better.

    An over inflated tire will "Balloon", somewhat, and force more of the center of the tread on the road. This lifts the outer treads off the road to some degree. This can lead to the center of the tread wearing before the outer.
    There is less rolling resistance because less tire is pressing on the road. Handling can feel a little crisper. However in situations where "Grip" becomes paramount, there won't be as much with an over inflated tire.

    Tire longevity is best when the entire tread is kept on the road. Tires are expensive. If any part of the tread wears thin, the entire tire is unsafe.

    There is always a compromise.

    Automobile and tire manufacturers try to establish the best amount of air pressure for a tire to have even pressure across the width of the tread for the amount of load that tire has to carry and the best ride. Heavier loads will require more air pressure than lighter ones.

    The maximum pressure shown on the side of the tire is just that. Maximum pressure suggested by the tire manufacturer before danger of blowing. It is not the maximum suggested for any particular weight of car.

    Tire gauges will vary. My gauge may show 1-3 pounds more or less than yours does. To establish the "perfect" amount of air takes a few minutes, but will work.

    Here is how: When tires are "cold" Inflate the driver side front and rear tire to near maximum according to the writing on the tire. Drive around long enough to get the tires to operating temperature, with the load you normally carry. Find a low traffic straight stretch of smooth road and pull over, but leaving the over inflated tires on the road. Put several chalk marks across the treads on both tires. ( Be careful and Watch for cars)
    Note- Make several marks so it will be easier to see them in a minute.. Gently pull back on the straight road turning the steering wheel as little as possible, and drive a mile or two.

    Now pull over as before and check the chalk marks. They will probably be worn off more in the middle than the edges. (If they have worn evenly across the tread it should be OK to leave them at that pressure.)

    If they are worn more in the center, using the gauge, let out a pound or two. Refresh the chalk marks and continue to do this until the chalk wears evenly across the tread.
    Keep this in mind. You may find that the front tire begins to wear the chalk evenly, but the rear was still wearing the center more, as there is usually less weight at the rear of the car.. Simply stop adjusting the front and consentrate on the rear.

    When the front and rear are both wearing evenly, THAT is the maximum amount of air those tires require to have the entire tread evenly carrying the weight of the car and load. You may have been able to decrease pressure more for better ride and still have even wear, but we are after better mileage here. So we are staying on the high side.

    At this point you don't know what the correct "cold pressure" is. You do know that at operating temps the tire have the correct amount of air.

    Park the car in the shade for a few hours to allow the tires to cool.
    After they are cool check the pressure with the gauge you will be using for that car. Now you have the "cold pressure" You may find that the rear requires less than the front, which is normal. Write these numbers down in the door frame with a felt tip pen for reference and put the gauge in the console or glove box. Next time you check tire pressure, use those numbers and that gauge.

    This method will give you the best mileage while maintaining proper tire to road contact for safety and handling and tire longevity. You have established the correct pressure according to your tires, your load and your gauge. This procedure only has to be done once. Although you might wish to do it every 10K miles or so to compensate for norman weakening of the sidewalls.

    With proper tire pressure, the driver has more to do with good mileage than anything else. I consistently get 3-5 mpg better than my wife. She drives to get there, and I drive for mileage. :)

    Kip
  • skepticalskeptical Member Posts: 65
    Thanks tons for the great info hypermiler and Kipk--I always knew inflated tires are better, but had no idea of these details you each set forth so clearly.

    This is invaluable information during these times.

    Will help not only with my budget but also as my carbon footprint! :)

    BTW, in a separate but related question, does anyone know if running the A/C higher versus running A/C lower also affect gas mileage? Or does it make no difference once it's on? Thanks in advance if anyone knows...
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    With most vehicles (my Honda included) the Compressor will cycle on and off in a similar manner, whether the fan is set to low speed or a higher speed, so if you're going to run the A/C, just run it where you are comfortable.

    The short answer: I don't think so. :D
  • fitman548fitman548 Member Posts: 172
    IME makes maybe a 1-2 mpg difference. maybe. I turn it off when I hit the on ramp to merge on to the freeway, just to get the extra horses.

    I think the AC is like the 6th thing on my list of ways to increase your MPG.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I turn it off when I hit the on ramp to merge on to the freeway, just to get the extra horses.

    Just a little FYI ;) :

    If you need extra power (pushing the throttle hard), the A/C should disengage, only to re-engage once you've backed off the throttle. Even my old '96 Accord does this.
  • meandg143meandg143 Member Posts: 2
    Hey everyone,

    I just bought my 08' Fit this past Monday and I love the car. It's a black sport model with an auto tranny. Just had to fill up the tank for the first time yesterday and my computed MPG was about 36. I did a lot of highway miles this past Teusday (120 miles), but other than that it has been mostly around town driving. I used the cruise control for all highway travel but kept the speed at 60 miles per hour tops. (Has anyone else ever thought that that big rig barreling up behind you was just going to fling you off the road...?) Anyways, I have also been using the AC every day. I haven't had the windows tinted yet and this Florida heat combined with that black interior is too much for this former New Yorker to bear. I think I've had excellent MPG though due to the fact that I've been actively trying to drive more efficiently.

    For my next tank of gas, I'm going to try to avoid using the cruise control and just try to keep the rpm's at a good level on the highway. I will let your all know if I see any difference in MPG's. For the third tank I was thinking about trying to use the paddle shifters to "manually" select my gears and see if that has any difference on fuel economy.

    One last thing... Kinda off topic, but the only dealership in town didn't have the black color I wanted so they had to trade with another dealer. I was almost done signing paperwork when the dealership manager himself came out and apologized for not telling me sooner, but the car that I was going to get had an aftermarket chrome grill installed by the other dealership. He went on to tell me that this was a $275 upgrade and I then told him to take it off the car when it came in and trade it with one of there other Fit's grills. Come on... the Fit's grill is about 6 inches wide and 3 inches tall. $275???
  • jootjoot Member Posts: 2
    Hasn't Honda figured out the mileage problem in some Fits yet?

    My Fit Sport automatic has 8500 miles on it now, so the low mileage can no longer be blamed on breaking in the engine. Over time it did improve from about 25 mpg for the first few tanks to now about 28.5 mpg. Overall since I bought my fit I have averaged 27 mpg. Even cruising at 60 mph on flat ground for a whole tank, the best I have ever gotten is 35 mpg. I can't imagine getting >40 mpg or going 370 miles on one tank like some here have described - I have never reached 300 miles on one tank, even when pushing it after the E light comes on. :cry:
  • tiff_ctiff_c Member Posts: 531
    Hasn't Honda figured out the mileage problem in some Fits yet?

    They will never admit it and all the Honda fans that do NOT have a problem will tell you that it's you and your driving style and not the car. This is utter BS. But also why Honda doesn't have to fix it.
    I suggest that you trade it in towards a 2009 Fit. Your 2008 won't lose much value and you stand a good chance of getting a good mileage Fit. If the new owner complains about poor fuel economy tell him/her to read this forum and that it's all in their imagination and or driving style.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    ...now about 28.5 mpg (average). Even cruising at 60 mph on flat ground for a whole tank, the best I have ever gotten is 35 mpg.

    Congrats, you are beating EPA Estimates.

    2008 Fit Sport Automatic

    27 City / 33 Hwy

    Don't be so glum, chum. :)
  • watsacwatsac Member Posts: 49
    joot - have you done an ILP reset?
  • vdalvdal Member Posts: 6
    I disagree with that.Like i wrote before I was driving Ford Taurus 03'. 3.0 engine and i was getting better millage in city then with Honda Fit.The same trip everyday.I didin't have to worry about turning on AC(lower mpg),opening windows, accelerating from time to time.I drive 100% city, nad still My best result was 21 mpg, when I didn't turn on AC, dirving by the limits, keeping low rpm.We switch with my husband and the same thing., but the funny thing is that on hwy is not that bad cause this weekend full packed we had 35 mpg:D.I've got 1600 miles, so maybe finally this will kick in:D
  • igloomasterigloomaster Member Posts: 249
    just got 36 mpg on my last tank, and just reach 1100 miles on the new Fit. more HWY than city on that particular tank. i'm very pleased.
  • damian1962damian1962 Member Posts: 28
    Trade it in, don't waste more time with it. I did exactly that, after 3 1/2 months of frustration I got rid of the headache. The fit is a cheap replica of the original Japanese Jazz version. The tank is too small the mpg tales are probably written in by honda freaks and it's not worth your hard earned money. If you paid off your insurance just get rid of it now while it's still worth something because when the september 2009 fit hits the road it's going to be impossible for you to get rid of it. There are plenty of people buying the 2008 fit, dealers wont have a hard time reselling it it days but if you wait... you'll be stuck with 7 year old lemon that's about to change in 2 to 3 weeks. Gooo do it. I went to Mazda dealer and picked up a M5 Mazda sport and it's giving me 24 mpg's combined, 31 highway and it comes loaded with all options for a small family minivan. If you check out the M3 on CR it's ranked number 1. Don't get mad get glad and move up to better life. Honda is a fairy tale sold at an expensive tag price, Mazda's are pure performance and value.
  • jacksan1jacksan1 Member Posts: 504
    The fit is a cheap replica of the original Japanese Jazz version.

    Just to set the record straight, in Japan this car has always been called the Fit. And the Fits that you see in North America are assembled on the same line as the JDM Fit, Suzuka's Line No. 2.
  • nascartrashnascartrash Member Posts: 33
    hey mazda boy
    lets see who's car is worth more money in 7 year's.
    :lemon:
  • katrinka1katrinka1 Member Posts: 9
    Is your Fit manual or automatic? So, you actually gained fourteen miles per gallon driving on a highway that was fully packed with traffic, or a car that was loaded down with people and your/their 'stuff'? I get about 21 in the city and perhaps 24 on the highway. Have about 1200 miles on it now and do plan to implement tips read on this site once I return from a nonroad trip, Really want to hang onto the car, as it is my sixth or seventh Honda and the resale value is utterly amazing!
    Just need clarification regarding your transmission! :confuse:
  • brianbratbrianbrat Member Posts: 5
    I have a 2008 Base Fit with automatic. I am running it as a 2 seater and have some tools and golf clubs in the cargo area. I average 27 in the real city and 37.5 mostly highway. At 8000 miles on the clock, I have had mileage up to 39.2. I try to keep the tach well below 3. I don't drive like a little old lady but some drivers think I do.
  • vdalvdal Member Posts: 6
    Here is clarification.honda Fit Sport 2008,automatic.We drove with my husband(so that'a 2 people),and back was full almost to the roof:P with camping staff(tent-14X16ft-kinda heavy:P,cooler,matress,chairs etc).We drove with speed maximum 80 mph with no traffic.My first 800 miles was done only in city(done in 1,5 month:P).Next 800 we done it in 4 days.Mostly highways.that's what i don't get it on highway is good in city not really:/
  • kipkkipk Member Posts: 1,576
    Getting 35 mpg at 80 mph is darn good mileage in any car.

    Can't help but believe that the foot might be a bit heavy in city driving. The Fit 4 cylinder is not going to perform like a V6. Trying to force it to do so will burn a lot of extra fuel.

    Kip
  • racerskiracerski Member Posts: 17
    My wife has an 07 Fit 5 speed and consistently gets 39 MPG doing 70 and 80 MPH. I always check the tire pressure at 32 PSI. Doing Hi-way and city I average around 33-34 MPS.

    This is my wife's car with me owning a 2006 Pilot. We seem to use the Fit on all our trips. I wonder why???
  • northernfitnorthernfit Member Posts: 10
    1,200 miles and averaging 33mpg in mixed driving (50%/50%)
  • igloomasterigloomaster Member Posts: 249
    i'm grateful to Honda for a great car in the Fit. it does everything it need it to, no more no less. all with MPG consistently in the 30s, low to high depending. I LOVE MY CAR :blush:
  • boord1boord1 Member Posts: 17
    For those interested, the Los Angeles Times printed its review of the 2009 Fit;

    http://www.latimes.com/classified/automotive/highway1/la-fi-neil22-2008aug22,0,1- 913313.story

    The review was complimentary in many ways. For this forum the interesting point was
    the EPA expected mileage on an 09 sport auto is 27/33mpg.

    Those estimates are a lot closer to what I am now getting on my '08 sport auto after doing the ILP and taking some lead out of my loafers.
  • jacksan1jacksan1 Member Posts: 504
    27/33 is the same EPA rating as the '08 Fit Sport with 5AT. Did the article specify which transmission the '09 was rated under? I have read somewhere that the Fit Sport gets the same EPA numbers whether manual or AT....
  • boord1boord1 Member Posts: 17
    Click the web site on the original post to read the full article. My post was off:
    the article said the 09 Base model EPA estimate is 35/28 versus 33/27 for the sport model. The article did not give manual vs auto estimates.
  • xcentrickxcentrick Member Posts: 16
    For the benefit of those wanting to "look ahead" and see how the Honda FIT car is holding up, especially MPG, here are my experiences so far. I have recently turned 47K miles on my '07 FIT Sport. It is automatic, shifts very well, no downshift problems. I have made no modifications to this car. I drive the car 115 freeway miles/day, 50% stop and go, other 50% fast, up to 80+ MPH on So. Ca. freeways. So far, all systems are still working like new. The car got a very consistent 30 MPG up to 40K miles. Suddenly, it started going up to 33MPG and then as high as 35MPG. Avg. now is 33.5 MPG. AC on or off, doesn't seem to matter, all freeway driving. I haven't done the idle reset procedure yet. One thing will help, stay back about 6-8 lengths from the car in front of you=less erratic slowing/restarting, thus less gas used. Also, use the right paddle to get into the higher gears quicker on takeoff and the left paddle to pass or speed up at cruising speeds instead of flooring the gas pedal.

    For those considering the free flowing, washable, re-oilable, lifetime warranty air filter to save MPG I bought one and didn't get any MPG or performance improvement. Payback=~100K miles.

    Tires (Dunlops) holding up excellent, will probably get 55-60K miles on them. Run @ 32 PSI.

    I reworked the front brakes myself @ 40K miles. The surprise here was that even though my pads still had 2 MM on them, both front rotors were worn below spec. Fortunately, they aren't that expensive to replace. I replaced the pads with ceramic and there is zero fade, chatter or squeel. It stops extremely fast!

    For those having the windshield wiper chatter problem. The fix is to simply tweak the wiper arm a little using a small crescent (sp?) wrench. If the lip of the blade touching the windshield gets ahead of the body of the blade, it will chatter or skip. So, just very slightly bend the arm until the lip tails the body of the blade. The chatter will stop.

    For those experiencing the dash noise (in cold weather), I did come across a thread where a fix was found. I'll dig it out and post a reference if you need it.

    In summary, this is my 4th Honda. The 1st three have all ran well over 275 miles with few problems. I still have my '86 CRX HF 5 speed with 310K original miles I've owned since new. Still gets 43 MPG, 155# flat and it flies.

    The main thing with these small cars is to follow the factory maintenance recommendations very closely. You'll have many years of good performance out of the FIT and most other Hondas if you do. They are virtually bullet proof if you take care of them.
  • northernfitnorthernfit Member Posts: 10
    2,100 miles total on the odometer. Highway trip (Alaska highways, lots of up and down) with a carload of camping gear, two adults and a 3-year old, averaged 34 mpg. Tach under 3k, gentle starts, no a/c. Wish it got better, but very happy with the car.
  • ifitifit Member Posts: 18
    My 2008 Fit Sport, with MT gets 36 MPG with 7/10 very short trips in town, and 3/10 very short trips on the highway. I wish they made a hybrid Fit..
  • kipkkipk Member Posts: 1,576
    They will likely offer a Hybrid Fit shortly.

    However before going for the purchase, consider: inflated purchase price, cost of battery replacement, and resale or trade in of a Hybrid that is about to need new batteries.

    Last I heard, Honda warrants the battery pak ? years or 80K miles, or something like that.

    Suppose you are trading in a Hybrid with say 60-70K miles on the clock. How much would be knocked off the trade in value with battery replacement looming in the near future?

    Just for thoughts, let's say the Hybrid purchase price is $3,000-$5000 more than a straight gas model. Also consider battery replacement at 80K of say $3000-$5000. (I've heard replacement can be $3K-$5K.)
    For sake of argument lets use the lower numbers.

    Now suppose the gas model returned an average of 34 mpg and the hybrid actually returned 40% more or 47 mpg.

    In 80K miles, The gas model would have used 2352 gallons of fuel. At $4 per gallon the cost would have been $9,411. The Hybrid would have used 1702 gallons at a cost of $6808. You would have saved $2602 in fuel cost.

    Looking at the above numbers, the initial of + $3K at purchase and +$3k for battery replacement is $6K. You saved $2602 in fuel but are still behind $3398.

    To go a little farther:

    160,000 miles in the "Gas" would = 4705 gal. X $4 = $18323 fuel cost.
    160,000 miles in the hybrid would = 3404 gal. X $4 = $13617 fuel cost.
    You saved................................................................$4706 fuel cost.

    You spent $3K extra at purchase and 2 battery paks ($6K) for a TOTAL OF $9K for the Hybrid and keeping it going.

    Extra $$ spent = $9,000
    Fuel saved...... = $4706
    You are behind $4294 now. More than at 80K and it will continue to get worse.
    Hoping that nothing goes wrong with any of the electric drive components.

    Now if fuel goes up or down, if the initial price and battery replacement are more or less, all this will change.

    I prefer the gas model !

    For my scooting around, a plug in Electric car might be neat. But then again , WHAT IS THE REAL COST. WHAT ARE THE REAL SAVINGS? :confuse: :)

    Kip
  • gr8poobahgr8poobah Member Posts: 7
    Good analysis, Kip. Also a valid way to look at a Prius. Thanks.
  • jacksan1jacksan1 Member Posts: 504
    Kip, not to nit-pick your analysis, but I need to challenge your assumption that at 80k or whatever mileage at which the battery warranty expires is when the battery needs to be replaced. It is well-known that very few batteries of the first generation Prius which was released in 1997 have ever been replaced (in fact, in Japan, it has been reported that not a single user has ever actually had to pay for a battery replacement). Naturally, the Prius' example is not directly applicable to an upcoming Honda hybird model, but is a good reference material nevertheless, IMHO.
  • fitman548fitman548 Member Posts: 172
    "For those experiencing the dash noise (in cold weather), I did come across a thread where a fix was found. I'll dig it out and post a reference if you need it. "

    yes please!
  • kipkkipk Member Posts: 1,576
    >"Kip, not to nit-pick your analysis, but I need to challenge your assumption that at 80k or whatever mileage at which the battery warranty expires is when the battery needs to be replaced."

    You aren't nit-pickin. Your point is a valid consideration. The battery Pak may last much longer than the 80K mile mark.

    However, for me personally, I would be very cautious buying a Hybrid with near or over the battery warranty period. And can't help but believe the dealer would also consider that at trade.

    So, let's consider that the batteries are a non issue. And the purchase price is $3000 more for the Hybrid. For whatever reasons I'm going to say the average driver drives 16,666 miles annually. So to drive 100K miles would take 6 years.

    Consider $4 fuel, 34 mpg gas Fit, 47 mpg Hybrid Fit, and 100,000 miles of driving over a 6 year period.
    .
    Gas fit ...= 2941 gallons X $4 = $11764
    Hybrid Fit = 2127 gallons X $4 = $8510
    Hybrid fuel savings.........$3253 minus $3000 up front cost = $253 actual savings at 100,000 miles.

    But there is more to it than that. Paying cash by cashing in some 4% CDs, the extra $3000 will cost us in the neighborhood of $796 in interest in a 6 year period. Of course we would have had to pay taxes on that interest, so lets say $590 instead of the $796, We also paid an extra say 7% sales tax on that $3000 for an additional $210.

    Fuel savings = $3253. Extra cost = $3000 + $590 + $210 = $3800
    At 100,000 miles we are still in the hole $547.

    If financing that $3000 at 6%+ we would be in the hole even farther.

    Now if gas was $5 a gallon, from day one, we would save $4067 in fuel cost and be ahead $267 at 100,000 miles of driving. This is providing that nothing goes wrong with any of the "electric drive" components, and we took, the money from savings, rather than finance it. If we opt for the extended warranty, we may also find that to be more $$$ for the Hybrid.

    Any of the above figures can be different. But for now that is the best I can come up with.

    I believe in the near future we will see Hybrids that can deliver 50+ plus miles from a "plug in" charge we gave it at home from a drop cord. Then the average commuter would rarely engage the gas engine. Possibly even built in solar panels on the flat surfaces to extend the mileage even more while the car sits in the sun at work.

    For now, the person that absolutely wishes to go "Green", breaking even at 100,000 miles would probably be the way to go. :shades:

    Kip
  • pauleyepauleye Member Posts: 11
    Wow, that's pretty detailed. How about adding in the lost interest on the extra $3253 of gas you're buying? That amounts to $45 a month difference. For a future value of a monthly annuity of $45, total future value of $3655. So you lost $402 in interest. Assuming your same 26% tax rate, that's another $300 or so of difference.
    Then again, some states like California impose property tax on cars, so there may be a property tax difference between the two.
    Something tells me this analysis is limited only by one's imagination.
    There's also the psychic benefit from using less fuel/creating fewer emissions. Try to value that!
  • kipkkipk Member Posts: 1,576
    >Wow, that's pretty detailed. How about adding in the lost interest on the extra $3253 of gas you're buying? That amounts to $45 a month difference.

    Different states and counties have different tax rates. Insurance company rates will vary, income tax on CDs will vary, advalorem taxes will vary. Annuities will vary even if someone actually purchased them with the fuel savings. .

    I tried to keep the obvious in view and use figures leaning in favor of the hybrid.

    Looking at the Base model Civic Hybrid and the EX model Gas, the hybrid is actually closer to $3550 higher in MSRP. When comparing the base Gas Civic to the hybrid there was a lot more difference. No doubt in my mind that the Gas model can be discounted and the Hybrid will go at MSRP or higher.

    Why don't you break it down as I attempted to do and present it in some kind of logical order.

    >There's also the psychic benefit from using less fuel/creating fewer emissions. Try to value that!

    I did in the very last sentence. If you would spend more time in discussion and less trying to pick an argument, we might get some where.

    Try to value that! ;)

    Kip
  • mappomappo Member Posts: 12
    Just to throw my hat in the ring, I suspect a hybrid Fit will get significantly better mileage than 47 MPG. 47 is about where the Prius is, and the Fit is a much smaller car.
  • pauleyepauleye Member Posts: 11
    Jeez guy, I was trying to add to your analysis, not criticize it, all in a lighthearted, forum-friendly way. Picking an argument was the farthest thing from my mind.
    By annuity I didn't mean an actual purchased annuity; just a steady $45 monthly stream compounding at 4% annually (often referred to in this context as an annuity), which was the same interest rate you used for the CDs (yes, I know interest rates differ on longer-term CDs versus monthly investments).
    Had I realized how sensitive this subject was to you I would have done what you obviously would have preferred and kept my mouth shut. Sorry for any offense.
  • kipkkipk Member Posts: 1,576
    Pauleye,

    I have absolutely no problem discussing a topic with anyone. Jacksan1 for example had a very good point that disagreed with mine in a polite manner. I agreed that he may have a valid point and re figured without replacing the batteries.
    We won't know how long the Honda batteries last until farther down the road.
    Where I did have a problem, was with your >There's also the psychic benefit from using less fuel/creating fewer emissions. Try to value that!

    I had already covered that with the last sentence of the post you replied to.
    It would take a page of figures to show the interest earnings of the saved fuel money month by month for 72 months. . Most folks would find other things to do with that money and it would not put into savings in a structured manner.

    Notice I also used 16,666 miles per year for the average driver in an attempt to keep the cost of interest lost to a minimum. In reality most folks drive 12K to 15K a year. That would stretch the 100K miles out to 6.6 to 8.3 years. Also didn't use financing the extra cost, which would have resulted in a greater loss..

    As Fit doesn't have a Hybrid available yet, I used the closest thing available. The Civic. Civic Hybrid ranges from $23550 to $26750. The Civic automatic gas models range from $15205 to $23555. These are sedans with the 1.8 engine, not the performance models.

    So, base to base there is a $8345 difference. Top of the line for both results in a $3196 difference. I used $3000 difference to try rationalizing a dollar reason to purchase the Hybrid. I truly believe know the Gas model's prices can be negotiated. Probably not the Hybrids.

    There may be some tax rebates for the Hybrids. I didn't include.

    Happy to discuss any topic you choose in a respectable manner.

    BTW welcome to the forum. :)

    Kip
  • kipkkipk Member Posts: 1,576
    >"I suspect a hybrid Fit will get significantly better mileage than 47 MPG."

    You may be right. I used the Civic as a model as the Fit doesn't have a Hybrid yet.
    The Civic is heavier and has a larger engine than the Fit yet gets about the same MPG across the board.

    http://www.fueleconomy.gov/

    The Civic "Gas" mileage "AVERAGE" from 06 through 08 is 31.7, 31.1 and 31.3.
    The Fit "Gas" mileage "AVERAGE" for 07 and 08 is 32.7 and 31.9
    They are pretty close. And will likely be pretty close with the Hybrids also.
    BTW the Civic Hybrid uses the same size, 1.3 liter, engine as the Gas powered Fit.

    The Civic "Hybrid" mileage "Average" for 06 thru 08 is 45.5, 42,8, and 46.1
    Of course they will all get more or less according to driving conditions, etc..

    So 47 seemed like a reasonable figure for the Fit Hybrid "Average" mileage, although I was a bit high on the Fit Gas engine mileage in my figuring. :)

    Kip
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