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Fit vs. MINI

2

Comments

  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Check your facts man...

    Headlamp washer/Xenons are extra cost(hundreds of dollars), not standard. The Fit Sport has standard 15" alloys, just like the Mini.

    How do you mean "out of its league"? In price? Yeah, the Mini is way of the Fit's league when it comes to cost (optioned with those Xenons, Paddle Shifters, Foglights (stndrd Fit Sport equipment), The Mini is over $20,000. A lot more than the sub- $16k Fit Sport Paddle-Shifted Automatic.
  • carfanatic007carfanatic007 Member Posts: 267
    Actually all Euro brands have terrible reliability according to CR. American cars reliability rates higher. Of course, the Japanese cars have by far the highest reliability and customer satisfaction. I like the Fit sport much better than the Mini. To me, the Mini looks like a kids play car or something. The fit looks much more stylish, in my opinion. That, and the far superior reliability and dealer network makes it an easy choice.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Yes, I basically agree with what you are saying.

    Even if you like the style of the Mini, you pay more to get less (less versatility, room, fuel economy, reliability, cargo capacity, practicality). Buying a Mini is great if you like gadgets, you just pay more to get them (asking you to pay for options like fog-lights, headlamp washers (which I wouldn't need here in the south), and other more useful things like a Panaramic Sunroof (which I think the fit should offer at least a sunroof).
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Well, there's the understatement of the year! Let's see...zenon, Dynamic Stability Control, navigation, leather, 17" alloy, heated headlamp washer, trip computer, auto climate control, multifunction steering wheel, steptronic 6-speed auto, 6-speed manual, limited-slip.....need we go on??
    ****
    Leather - okay, the Fit doesn't have leather. Big deal. Plus, the leather is a very VERY pricey option on the Mini.

    Headlamp washers? Trip computer? Automatic climate control? All nice but all amenities.

    The sport also has a multifunction wheel. Check.
    6 speed manuals are mostly a waste in a car that tops out at less than 150mph. Check. The Fit out-handles and out accelerates a base Mini by a very comfortable margin, Manual or CVT makes no difference - the automatic OR the manual equiped Fit goes 0-60 faster. Does the slalom about 1mph faster, too. Turns tighter. Holds 1 more person and WAY more cargo.

    The Fit doesn't have traction control, but that's optional as well. Add leather and some of those goodies and $20K just went by.

    ****
    "5K in user/dealer added options for the Fit certainly will turn it into a serious vehicle"

    It still won't turn it into a Mini. What it will do is turn it into something the Fit's target market will not buy.
    ****

    3-5K in aftermarket mods would make the Fit smoke a Cooper S for 3-4K less. IF you had the desire to, that is. I don't see any difference between dealer-installed and overpriced accessories and aftermarket ones myself.

    Scion and Toyota do this already - and let me tell you - the aftermarket supercharger equipped(and dealer installed) Vibe/Matrix is a wicked little ride.
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    Check your facts, MAN. I own one of the friggin' things, so shut your trap before you embarrass yourself further. Headlamp washer and xenons are STANDARD. And 15" alloys are standard on the most basic Mini. I don't see that on the base Fit. This thread is Fit v. Mini the last time I looked. It's not Fit Sport v. base Mini.

    And yes, the Mini plays in a whole different league -- in price, equipment, style (especially style), prestige, sex appeal, snob appeal, envy appeal. You name it, it's got it over the Fit.

    This whole comparison is ludicrous. The Fit is an econohatch. That's how it's priced, equipped, marketed. Get over it. Accept it for what it is. The Mini was never meant to be an economy car. Why don't you compare the Fit to Cayman. That's a hatchback too! Sheesh! :mad:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Funny, the official Mini website, Miniusa.com disagrees with you. That website lists Xenon Headlights w/Power Wash as a $550 option. It will not let you equip one without the other, so Xenons cost a minimum of $550 on the Mini.

    Mini? Sex Appeal? LOL It's got all the sex appeal of George Costanza from Seinfeld; it's short, round, and stubby. Envy appeal? Dude, neither of these cars has it.

    I believe I'll let the host step in as far as the personally directed attacks go, so I won't stoop to your name-calling level. Also, you might want to consider updating your profile, because you appear to be too embarassed to mention one of those "friggin things" that you supposedly own. Instead you say you own an expensive Honda, known as an Acura TL.

    I'm heading out for the night (bedtime here in Central Standard Time), and will be with family tomorrow, so my "trap" will be shut and you may fire away at me. Trust me, you won't hurt my feelings however you may try. Neither of these cars is sexy, both of these cars handle great, and one of them adds practicality to the mix while maintaining a significantly lower price, without offering nearly the number of amenities (albeit optional amenities) to be added. It's that simple. It doesn't have to get heated.

    Happy motoring to all, whatever you drive...

    Thegrad
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    It *is* about the Fit Sport vs the Base Mini. There's about a 4K difference in price between the two. I suspect from the Japan car show a couple of months ago, that the Mugen Fit(look it up) will be a production model next year.

    It's production-level understated and conservative, with great pains to change as little as possible. I guarantee it or something almost exactly like it is in the works.

    And it has 145HP. :) Add in a few luxuries and you have a Fit "M" for ~18K that's going to sell as many as they can build.

    Now, true, the Mini is going to get a model change - it's bigger and more "Fit" like, and has more power, so the Mugen Fit will at least keep Honda ahead of the base Mini when they both come out.
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    The Fit does not have a multifunction steering wheel. The Sport has cruise control on the steering wheel. Sorry, that does not make it multifunctional.

    "6 speed manuals are mostly a waste in a car that tops out at less than 150mph"

    Really? Interesting. Try one and then come back and tell us.

    "The Fit out-handles and out accelerates a base Mini by a very comfortable margin, Manual or CVT makes no difference - the automatic OR the manual equiped Fit goes 0-60 faster. Does the slalom about 1mph faster, too."

    Even assuming that's true, so what? The Mini's claim to fame is not that it's the fastest. (Actually if you wanted to play the speed game, the John Cooper Works will blow you [non-permissible content removed] to Nepal). The Fit out-slalom a Corvette, does that give it bragging rights over a Vette? Should Vette owners be hanging their heads in shame? I can just see it now. Legions of Vette owners trading in their ride for...a Fit!

    "Holds 1 more person and WAY more cargo."
    Big deal. I don't carry cargo in any of my cars. I use rentals, or get it delivered. The Fit also carries more cargo than an M5, so would that get it one up on the M5?

    Traction and stability control is standard on the Cooper. STANDARD. S T A N D A R D. Got it?

    "Headlamp washers? Trip computer? Automatic climate control? All nice but all amenities."

    ????? :confuse: :confuse: :confuse: "Amenities" ?????

    "3-5K in aftermarket mods would make the Fit smoke a Cooper S for 3-4K less."

    No it won't. It'll get you something that'll look like a high school auto-shop project though! :sick: Well..if that's what turns your crank... :surprise:

    And don't harp on the Mini's price. It is NOT an economy car. People who buy it don't want an economy car. They want something fun, unique, stylish, and they are willing to pay for it, just like the tons of thousands who buy BMWs and Mercedes instead of Accords and Camrys. That's the way it works in life.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    If the Fit outhandles the Mini, like you say doesn't matter, carries more people and cargo comfortably, like you say doesn't matter, accelerates faster, which you say doesn't matter, and costs $3,000+ less than the Mini, which you say doesn't matter, then what DOES matter? Standard Traction control? The fact that it's "stylish" as a roller-skate?

    I'm not saying the Mini is bad, b/c I have little doubt that it is a fine car. The facts speak for themselves though, the Fit Sport can compete with the Mini Base. The question that comes to mind instead though, is can the Mini Base compete with the Fit Sport?

    I'm going to sleep. You folks discuss this and I'll check in after while. The ignorance to the facts going on here is pretty funny, but I've really gotta go.
  • SylviaSylvia Member Posts: 1,636
    Keep it civil and refrain from insults or attacks. They serve no one, including yourself.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    struggle to see any kind of argument for the Mini here (there probably is one, you just didn't make it)...it's smaller, handles worse, accelerates slower, costs a bucketload more, and is styled no better than the Fit, but because it is a "class" different the Mini is automatically better? How do you mean a "class" different?

    So basically you are saying the MINI is not comparable to the Fit. I agree. Fit is subcompact economy class and MINI is subcompact luxury lifestyle class.
  • ramoramo Member Posts: 66
    The Mini of today is not minimal enough for my taste, just a little pretentious but very cute. I remember the wood panelled Mini station wagons, being the head turners. I think cheap means good, if quality goes with cheap. When we drove the Fit again at the dealer's he preferred to call the Fit inexpensive. I told him cheap was good, but it was too bad those carpets were so terribly cheap. I want the Fit because we do not have extra money to throw at a Mini and I would not get the pleasure out of the extra expenditure. I dearly wish we had ordered the red Fit, but that's another story.
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    Thank you. You capsulized it much better than I did. That's exactly the point I was trying to get across to the kid. He's trying to reconcile the values of 2 models spanning at least a couple of classes, and is beating his brains in trying to do that. :sick:
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    "I struggle to see any kind of argument for the Mini here (there probably is one, you just didn't make it)...it's smaller, handles worse, accelerates slower, costs a bucketload more, and is styled no better than the Fit, but because it is a "class" different the Mini is automatically better?"

    I have been idly watching this discussion for some time, but I just have to stop you here, and say EH?!

    "Slower": Mini Cooper manual is 8.5 secs 0-60, same as Fit with a manual? I forget. Actually, IIRC Fit is 8.7 secs for the same feat.

    "Handles worse": Oh you can just forget that, Mini is a HANDLER.

    It doesn't cost a bucketload more, but it does cost about $1800 more than Fit Sport, and has rather nice stuff like leather wrap on the steering wheel, maplights, and a proper dead pedal at that price, before any options are added.

    "Styled no better than the Fit": well, that's a bold statement that plenty of people would disagree with, but styling is too personally subjective for us to have any meaningful discussion about it. Mini's styling and other attributes are sufficient for it to sell 30K per year at full sticker, YEARS into its model run.

    Since Fit will only sell about 40K per year, it would be an appropriate comparison to see how long Fit sells at full sticker. Will it match the Mini Cooper for longevity? Well of course, Fit will get a full model refresh after only two years, so it won't be exactly apples to apples, but I wonder if Fit can manage to sell at full sticker for two years. That would be somewhat surprising, but I am not going to say it couldn't accomplish it, especially if gas stays over $3/gallon.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Actually, the Fit does handle better than the Mini by a small margin. You've just been reading and believing the hype. The problem with the Mini is that its turning radius is about 4-6 FEET wider than the original Minis - in fact, it barely turns better than most small sedans. It just feels like it does because you sit so low to the ground. Given that wheelbase and suspension, it should turn in 30 ft or less. I find this also to be a problem with the Fit - it *should* turn in 30ft or less. It turns no better than a Civic - well, maybe a little better.

    Where the Fit beats the Mini and makes up for it, though, is that despite its high roofline, it has an absurdly low center of gravity. Stability/Traction control, while nice, isn't a determination of handling or performance - those are safety devices for when you act like an idiot and get in over your head. Yes, I wish the Fit had it, but I'm more than happy with the side airbags and ABS as it is. Given the price, it's not a bad deal.

    BTW - there is a model in Japan that does have that AND is AWD. Yep - AWD traction control, EX model trim - the works. Very hot seller, because Japan gets snow most every winter.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    (Pats his 1967 Mercedes affectionately)
    No smog. No electronics. No sensors. No Fuel Injection. NO PLASTIC. 145HP, 3000lbs. RWD. Stickshift. Went up $1000 last year in value as it oficially hit 40 years old model-year wise, with the 2007 Mercedes out for some models.(How's that for "depreciation?)

    Sometimes it's not what you can afford to drive.
    :)

    But I do need an ultra-high mileage commuter machine as well. I can afford the gas(15MPG!), but putting several thousand miles a month on my classic car isn't my first choice. Love driving it - but paranoid every day I do that someone will run into me, as it's a unibody car, and most of the replacement panels and parts are hard to find.

    So far, the Fit Hybrid is at the very top of my list, with the Honda GX a close second(used, of course).
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    "The problem with the Mini is that its turning radius is about 4-6 FEET wider than the original Minis - in fact, it barely turns better than most small sedans."

    So your idea of "handling" is making U turns on a side street? :confuse: :surprise:
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    Any classic automobile would not make a valid comparison. They are more like art, or coin collections.

    Our Mini is a little over a year old. We can drive the snot out of it on a daily basis. Puts a smile on my face everytime I whip around a corner like a go kart. It has all the modern safety amenities, and I can probably sell it tomorrow for close to what we paid for it. How's that for depreciation? :P

    Try that with a Honda Accord.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,251
    spirited discussion here. to me the mini is like the mustang.
    40 years ago people loved it, and with some updating people love it today too.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    No, I just find their marketing claims of "Go Kart" handling ubsurd when it's not even close to what the original Mini did. It seems odd that such small cars can't turn much better than a Buick. Maybe 3-4 feet smaller, despite the fact that the wheelbase is a couple of *feet* shorter.
  • sd_driversd_driver Member Posts: 49
    They make an AWD Fit?

    Sweet!

    Hey, how about Honda gets on the ball and develops a line of really fast, furious Fits to blow away not just the Minis, but the WRX STIs, the EVOs.

    How about a Fit Si: with maybe the new v-TEC 1.5 for a few more horses, or maybe even the 1.8 tricked out to 160hp. Add on the helical Limited Slip Differential and 6 speeds. Throw in some interior upgrades--Si seats, telescoping steering wheel, height adjustable seats, a panoramic sunroof-- and you'd have a wicked little racer--that gets good gas mileage and can haul a bunch of stuff.

    Oh, and keep it under 20K.

    Or, better, how about Honda shoehorns in that 197HP 2.0 Si engine with all the above mentioned ammenities? They could call it the Si C (C for "competition).

    Or, still better, Honda fits in the S2000 engine with AWD and all of the above ammenities into a Fit. 240hp! AWD! They could call it the Fit Si C R (R for "rallye").

    Or, best, they put the 240hp 2.0 in the Fit with AWD and all the above mentioned ammenities, and engineer a turbo for it: A 300HP AWD FIT!!
    They could call it the Fit Si C isT (isT for "turbo".

    And, best of all, they get it to us for under $30K!!! Wouldn't that be cool.

    Fit Si $18K
    Fit Si C $20K
    Fit Si C R $24K
    Fit Si C isT $28K

    Sick. Sicker. Sickest!!!!

    Ah, the mind reels.

    What do you think?
  • lotsaboneslotsabones Member Posts: 5
    Not trying to butt in here or anything, but I would like to correct a few false statements. According to the edmunds.com sites listed very early in this discussion, the 0-60 time for the MINI is 8.7 seconds, and for the Fit is 9.3 seconds. People have gone on to claim that the Fit is quicker - wishful thinking, I expect. "Mini? Sex Appeal? LOL It's got all the sex appeal of George Costanza from Seinfeld; it's short, round, and stubby. Envy appeal? Dude, neither of these cars has it." Well, the Fit doesn't, thats for sure. You may not like the looks of the MINI, but I don't see anyone paying $1000 to get on a waiting list so they can pay another $4000 ABOVE MSRP for a Fit. I paid $25K for my new 2003 MINI Cooper S - and sold it for $21K 2 years later with 45,000 miles on it. Another thing; numbers don't tell the whole story. Yes, the handling numbers look similar between the Fit and the MINI. No, they don't handle anything like one another. On an autoX course, similarly equipped (16" wheels), a base MINI will beat a MINI S because it is lighter and better balanced. The Fit will be way, way behind.

    As far as whether or not the Fit and MINI are competitors, in my mind they are not. I went from a '98 Lexus GS400 to an '03 MINI Cooper S and now to a 2005 Pontiac GTO. My last Honda was an '83 Civic S. I don't dislike Honda's, I've just found that I prefer to drive something a little bit different than everyone else, and have a little fun too.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Believe me, I am not making that statement from reading something in print. The Mini turns right at the instant you think you want to turn, practically before you even move the wheel with your hands. It is instantaneous and never understeers no matter how hard you try to make it do it.

    When i drove one, I had such an enthusiastic salesman that we were literally doing donuts in this little cul-de-sac near the dealership. The handling is amazing.

    Now my dealer can't keep a Fit Sport in stock long enough for me to drive it, so I can't make the direct comparison, but if Fit handled THAT well, it would be making much bigger news than it is.

    I look forward eagerly to making the comparison, however. :-)

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    The manual transmission Mini is a tad quicker, at 8.5 seconds in real testing, versus 8.7 for the Fit, but the automatic vs CVT is a whole other animal, with the Fit easily beating the Mini. Overall, though, it's really close. The Fit is lighter than the Mini as well, plus has a lower center of gravity.

    Yes, it's all about a few tenths her and a few thenths there, but suffice it to say that the base Mini and the Sport Fit run neck and neck with each other.

    Of course, upgrading to the better suspension or the S package... the Mini leaps ahead, no question about it.

    My original point wasn't to slam the Mini as to point out to the people who are all "it's too expensive for a Honda" that it has Mini-like handling for a lot less money, which puts it in its own category apart from the Yaris and Hyundai and Aveo.
  • waltersbgwaltersbg Member Posts: 28
    nippononly:

    I haven't driven a mini, and I'm pretty sure I'll never get that chance. In fact, I driven very few cars which have been accused of having great handling. I have, however, driven my new fit and whether somebody considers "go-kart-like handling" to be a good thing or a bad thing, I'd say the fit has it. More on that below.

    I'm not exactly sure why we're comparing the mini and the fit anyway. There may be cross shopping of the two, especially once the word gets out about the fit's handling or if Honda decides to go that direction with the trim. But, they're two different beasts. And, no, despite what some elitists are saying, they're not two different beasts in the sense that Walmart is different than Macy's. They're different in the sense that the mini can't compete with the fit in terms of practicality and the fit can't compete with the mini in terms of luxury niceties and established "coolness". The fact that they have some similar features and similar acceleration and handling is just a red herring to allow passionate people on both sides to keep the arguments alive. What's most telling about that, to me, is that there ARE people already who are passionate about the fit. That's not what you would expect if it was just a "minivan-like" "economobile". There are a few riled-up people in both camps and that's interesting, even if it's not enjoyable to read.

    At any rate, you're taking a very level-headed approach. Whether you're truly considering both of these cars for purchase, I'm not sure, but just for the sake of answering things for yourself you're wanting to actually drive both. How unique! ;)

    The fit *is* making some news due to its handling. C&D made quite a deal about it, but it was contained only in the review of economy cars. I've read other reviews that rave about the spot-on steering and the lack of body roll. But, I guess short of actually driving both (which still will be subjective), I guess one thing we could do it look at the results of edmunds slalom testing:

    The 2002 Mini Cooper ( http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=61670 ) completed the edmunds 600-foot slalom course with an average speed of 67.4mph and the reviewers had these comments:

    "Excellent stability provided by a compact, stout structure, short 97.1-inch wheelbase and a cube-like construction with wheels pushed as far out to the corners as they can go allowed the Mini to thread through the 600-foot slalom at 67.4 mph, a number comparable to performance-oriented vehicles like the Lexus IS 300. While nose-heavy front-wheel-drive cars usually don't encourage cretinous behavior on a serpentine road, the Mini (with its 63/37 front/rear weight distribution) allowed us to touch base with our inner simian selves. Besides, the excellent brakes and limited thrust kept us in check."

    There's also the 2005 Mini Cooper convertible ( http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=104624/pageId=62- - 525 ) which completed the slalom with an average speed of 66.6mph. The reviews said:

    "We noticed some mild body roll in the slalom, but the car is very easy to control. The steering is quick and offers excellent feel, which is quite amazing considering it's electric. Both Dynamic Stability Control and Cornering Brake Control systems work very well, and the two systems can pull the car back in line with amazing finesse. Overall this is an excellent car to take through the slalom, especially considering it's a convertible."

    The 2007 fit ( http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=109810 ) finished the slalom with an average speed of 67.5 mph and the reviewers said this:

    "The Fit drove like a champ, with quick steering and exquisite road feel. These impressions were confirmed on the track, where it slipped through the slalom in 6.1 seconds at 67.5 mph. The Fit felt stable and well balanced, and provided good feedback to the driver. It was about as much fun as you could have in a thrifty little car. Not only that, but the sporty handling didn't sacrifice comfort; it provided a pleasing, comfortable ride."

    So, in short, I think the fit just might handle "THAT well". I would be surprised if, in the end, the fit handles as well as the mini (which is known for its handling), but I don't think the difference will be as great as some would think.

    Mike
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    I don't agree with everything you say, but I appreciate your attempt at objectivity in your comments.
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    The original Mini was essentially a go-kart. But I don't think, though, that the current one would lag behind much, if any.
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    I believe you. The Mini is the only street car I've driven (and no, I have not driven the exotics) where I can go full speed into a turn, and hang the car at the threshold of adhesion, with little or no body lean, and feel all 4 tires digging in, working the turn. And I will feel in complete control the whole time. Amazing! The Fit may be a fine handler in its class, and even put up good numbers, but I doubt it will offer that experience.
  • hungarian83hungarian83 Member Posts: 678
    I haven't driven a Mini, so I am not going to make comments about how it handles. However, the steering on the Fit is excellent thanks to the very responsive electric steering system.

    The Mini turns right at the instant you think you want to turn, practically before you even move the wheel with your hands.
    To me that is what the Fit feels like...again, maybe the Mini is quicker still, but the Fit's steering is light, responsive and quick.

    After driving the Fit for long periods of time and then taking our 2002 Civic coupé out for a spin, the traditional hydraulic steering on the Civic feels heavier and less responsive particularly at low speeds.
  • waltersbgwaltersbg Member Posts: 28
    "Do you see many others agreeing with your "opinions"?"

    Actually, bodble2, I haven't seen thegraduate say much that has been wrong -- considering that opinions can't really be wrong. He got involved in this thread because somebody suggested comparing a fit to the mini. There was a debate between plekto and moparbad over whether the fit could be considered a "mini competitor". Thegraduate stepped in to clarify that the comparison being made must be to a base mini in order for it to make sense. He wasn't the one who started the comparison idea, he just tried to scope it a bit.

    At one point, thegraduate said that "the mini may be a better car overall" but was simply pointing out that in some respects the fit sport makes quite a case for itself.

    So far, so good. I'm not sure why some people were getting so riled up over the very concept of even discussing the comparison of the fit and mini, but at least things were progressing in some relatively civil way.

    Things fell apart when thegraduate told you to "check your facts, man." To this you responded with "shut your trap before you embarrass yourself further". I'm sure you couldn't care less about my opinion on this, but it seems to me that you were the first one to throw a tantrum. At any rate, it was your post that drew the attention of the moderator.

    You went on to tell thegraduate, "I forget. You're a college student. Guys your age like to buy cheap cars and "soup" them up. Yeah, I used to think like that. Then I started making money." Was that supposed to sound as snobby as it did? Were you just trying to push buttons at this point?

    I've butted in and most likely didn't make things any better, but I couldn't just sit by and let you put all the blame on thegraduate. Maybe you've had the last word now and things can move on.

    Mike
  • SylviaSylvia Member Posts: 1,636
    Alright - enough is enough. A number of posts have been deleted. Keep it about the cars. Anything other than that which is personal and attacking will be removed.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    It really is in a different class than the Hyundais and crud like the Aveo and so on.

    Why do you insist on bringing your Korean-car bashing into discussions that have nothing to do with them?

    I agree the Fit is in a different class than the Hyundais, specifically the Accent that is a direct competitor for the Fit. That is, the Fit is in a lower class. You noted:

    I'd gladly pay $1000 more for rear disc brakes, adjustable seat height, a map light, better carpets, more amenities, and so on.

    You probably don't realize that you were describing the Accent pretty well--standard rear disc brakes, dual height adjustments on the driver's seat, map lights, better carpets, more amenities even on the base GLS model such as dual lighted vanity mirrors, front and rear center armrests, six-speaker MP3 stereo, an honest-to-gosh dead pedal, nice-looking wheel covers, locking fuel filler door, and readily available alloys (15" or 16" depending on model) and optional remote locking with alarm (and on the hatchback, available power moonroof). The funny thing is, you don't need to pay $1000 more for these amenities. Actually, you would pay about $800 less than the Fit base model, before any discount from the dealer. Meaning in the real world today the Accent will cost much less, with much more equipment including 15" alloys.

    So can you try to stick to the topic at hand, Fit vs. MINI? There is another discussion for Fit vs. Accent if you want to talk more about how the Fit is in a different class than Hyundai.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Oh dear. I said "Hyundai" and this other guy blew up again. Either I mention "Mini" and othe guy blows up or the other does a knee-jerk reaction about Korean cars.

    You'll note that most of the time, I also include the Yaris.

    Here's a full list of cars that I have personally test-
    driven that handle worse than the Fit:

    Toyota:
    Yaris
    Xa
    Xb

    Mazda:
    3 series

    Suzuki
    Reno

    Hyundai:
    Accent

    Fit:
    Everything.

    Daewoo:
    Aveo
    BTW - Daewoo does build crud.

    Chrysler
    Neon/the new replacement for it

    GM:
    Cobalt
    Anything by Buick

    I'm sure I forgot a bunch as well. The Fit gives me the same driving experience and immediate feedback that a Subaru, a Corolla SE-R, a Mini,a Tc, Golf, or a Focus gave me. It didn't drive like a tin can. It didn't rattle going over potholes and railroad tracks as much. The rear end didn't feel like it was flapping around/along for the ride like the Yaris and Aveo, either.

    Going around an outward-sloping turn and hitting uneven pavement(road construction plates they put down) - the Fit was tight. The Yaris - bounced. (the older Tercel also did this) The Aveo was beyond dreadful - even worse. The Aveo reminded me of the Kia/Ford Festiva or a Suzuki/Geo Metro.

    On smooth road, all were fine - the problem was what happened when the conditions went from yuppie neighborhood to normal Los Angeles streets. Add in some potholes, cracking pavement, patches, roadwork, and so on - and the others start loosing points.

    In an 18-25K car, you expect good handling. In a 14K car, that's often a rarity. OTOH... That a car like the base Golf can come in at or near the same price and offer good handling, as does the Focus and a few others - it's clearly a matter of priorities. I'll take better handling and driving characteristics every day over bling and amenities if I have to choose between the two.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    If somebody blows up here because you mention "Mini", that is their problem because this discussion is all about the Fit vs. the Mini. If you can't keep on subject, and feel the need to take digs at Hyundais et. al. when they aren't anywhere close to the topic, that is your problem.
  • shado4shado4 Member Posts: 287
    I'll take better handling and driving characteristics every day over bling and amenities if I have to choose between the two.

    Why do you have to choose? The upcoming Hyundai Accent SE 3-door will offer the best of both worlds. From Hyundai's press release:

    "Accent was tuned to satisfy unique consumer needs. The GLS four-door was tuned for comfort, but still feels agile. The GS three-door has a unique steering rack with increased sporty feel. The SE trim delivers even more road-holding capability with a sport-tuned suspension featuring 24 percent stiffer front spring rate and 11 percent stiffer rear spring rate, larger stabilizer bar (24 mm.), unique strut valving, high performance steering gear and larger wheels and tires. Accent SE delivers a 70 percent increase in roll control over the GLS, even exceeding the roll stiffness of the Hyundai Tiburon SE. To complete the performance package, Accent SE has powerful four-wheel disc brakes with a four-sensor, four-channel Antilock Brake System (ABS). Electronic Brake Force Distribution (EBD) is integrated into the ABS, automatically adjusting braking force front to rear based on vehicle loading conditions."

    Now add in the available amenities that will be offered in the SE. Things like a power moonroof, maplights, in-dash 6-CD changer, plus over 35 accessories that can be bought to personalize the Accent to your liking. All at a price that will likely undercut the Fit. Seems to me the Accent SE may give Honda a few fits. :P

    As far as the MINI, my father owns a Cooper S and that is a truly fun car to drive. If the Fit can actually match the handling characteristics of the Cooper, then kudos to Honda!
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    I wouldn't underestimate the Koreans. Not anymore. They are clearly in the Japanese' rear view mirror. And closing fast! Now if they can only address their tendency to overstyle....
  • SylviaSylvia Member Posts: 1,636
    Drop the personal snipes or you will be canned from this discussion.

    We already have a Fit v. Hyundai discussion. Please look at the list of the Fit discussions here http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.f09fe85/ for the list of Honda Fit discussions (main and comparisons).
  • anotherscottanotherscott Member Posts: 93
    re:

    The Fit gives me the same driving experience and immediate feedback that a Subaru, a Corolla SE-R, a Mini,a Tc, Golf, or a Focus gave me

    Maybe you meant Nissan Sentra SE-R (not Corolla)? I test drove one of those once, great car, fun to drive, in the same way Mini and Fit are.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Yeah - my bad. Sentra SE-R. Very nice car, if a tad overpriced.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I know its unrelated to the current issue at hand, but they (late model Sentra SE-Rs are a great deal if you can still find one (old model) as far as bang for buck! They feel about a generation behind, but are cheap!
  • upland22upland22 Member Posts: 3
    I agree that the Fit's clutch is too closely spaced to the brake pedal. I hope Honda does something about this in the future.
  • upland22upland22 Member Posts: 3
    Is everyone satisfied with the factory treads? Comments?
  • kagedudekagedude Member Posts: 407
    The Fit's "driving" characteristics is very close to the Mini (Note that I don't mention accessories).

    I've driven my brother's Mini Cooper S, I think its a 2003 model. Never driven the Base Mini which seems to be what we are comparing the Fit too. Interestingly, from a Mini perspective, the Base is pretty slow. I almost got the car and didn't like it compared to the S. So to compare the Fit to the Base Mini isn't really saying much. Lets compare it to the S instead. :P

    The Fit's steering feel and response is better than most cars in its class but can't be compared to the Mini. Its true, the Mini S' steering response is instant. Its compared more to the EVO and I believe the EVO and the Mini S was the top 2 in handling a few years ago. The Fit's steering response has a little delay and as I posted earlier, my Mazda 3i even gave me a better feel. However, given this for normal driving, the Fit is more suitable.

    The Fit's initial torque as someone posted before makes you feel the car is fast. I drove around Manhattan and the Fit sprints and zips past yellow cabs with ease and sometimes too much causing the ABS to initiate when I brake while going over bumps and potholes. The car is just too hyper in the 2500-3500 rpm range.

    On the highway, the car too picks up reasonably well. Although it does reach around 3500rpm when you hit 70mph+, the car has a very quiet cabin that you only feel to shift into 6th gear (which isn't there) because of the torque/hp feel.

    Its suspension really holds up to those bumps and potholes while driving through the city. When you hit a bump, it recovers quick with no further bounce. The Fit doesn't really lean when going on sharp turns. The car is very solid which makes it feel like the Mini.

    The Fit's gauge cluster IMHO is better than the Mini. The Honda Fit's especially at night makes you feel you are driving a luxury car.

    The Fit beats the Mini in MPGs. Got my 3rd fill up and it still averages over 37mpg combined city/hwy. :P

    Its funny, when I first drove the Fit off the dealer lot, it felt bouncy and wobbly. After a day of driving, wearing the tires from the armor all and taking off some air (dealer had it at 36psi so I lowered it to 32psi), the car's handling/steering felt a lot better. Maybe I just got used to it? :confuse:
  • koimankoiman Member Posts: 12
    Fit is a great car but at least at the present is not a competitor to a Mini. Fit or a variation will need a body style that doesn't blare Economy Car. When or if that happens look out Mini your sales will drop. I own a 03 Mini and really like it but I am disappointed that Mini hasn't improved the minor annoinances and I also expected mini to introduce new models. For a company that intends to excite they seem complacent the last few years.
  • cct1cct1 Member Posts: 221
    The life cycle of the brand is five years--there is a totally new model coming out next year--out is the supercharger, in is a twinscroll turbo. There is also a new model coming out--the traveler, which is an extended wheel base.

    Many of the bugs HAVE been worked out--beginning 2005 model was significantly changed; the dash is now a single piece (which is where a number of the rattles occurred), the base model transmission was upgraded to the gertrag version, and in the S the gear ratios have been reworked (and the suspension softened, which may or may not be an improvement, depending on your perspective)--if you haven't driven a 2005 or 2006, you probably should--they are significantly (although not radically) different from the previous models.

    You'll never see a million Mini models--it's not what BMW is trying to do with the Mini; they are trying to stay with the Mini heritage. Heck, there's quite an uproar over the Traveler, let alone a bunch other models. Personally, a bunch of Mini model don't make much sense--I'd hate to see that much brand dilution.
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    We've had our '05 Mini for over a year now. There's still some squeaks (not really rattles) from the dash area, but reliability has been superb. I'm not a fan of the CVT though. And of course, in terms of styling, the Mini's in the majors compared to single-A for the Fit. But I doubt Honda's trying to sell the Fit on looks.
  • koimankoiman Member Posts: 12
    cct, I was hoping that mini would branch out in a similar way to scion with new models. A niche model 2 seater pickup for instance would be a model more in line with the mini image instead of another wagon. I also would like to have seen the engine hp increased incrementally. I am also disturbed by the talk of cheapening the car I read that the hood would changed to a conventional short body part in order to lower cost. This kind of thinking would put the mini in competition with honda and toyota and hurt the company in my opinion.
  • cct1cct1 Member Posts: 221
    I don't think you'll see mini branching out like Scion--Scion is a high volume vehicle; Toyota can make a nice little profit by doing little variations here and there (all of which cost money to develop--although probably not too much on the Scion platform). Mini, on the other hand, will only turn a profit for BMW with the next generation. There are variations of the Mini done by Bertone (Who does a two seater pickup off the Mini platform, and is building the GP), but it wouldn't be profitable for BMW to do this--they wouldn't sell enough, and the retooling wouldn't be worth it. But I agree with you to a certain extent--a Moke, two seater with a bed, etc would be kind of cool.

    As for HP, when you start getting above 220 on the Mini's platform, you're really pushing it for what the average driver can handle. You can still mod it though. I would love to see an AWD Mini though--and that hasn't been ruled out for down the road, although there are know plans for it in the immediate future (Gertrag actually developed an AWD for the Mini, but it got shot down).

    The hood will remain a clamshell; the only difference it the lights will be integrated into the body rather into the hood itself (There are two holes in the hood that comes down over the lights). Otherwise, the hood is the same design as before (No way Mini could have gotten rid of the clamshell hood!). It will be a bit taller, but that's due to the new European pedestrian laws.

    The interior materials are actually supposed to be of higher quality; you're dead on in that there is some concern about what they're doing with the rest of the car. One thing to remember, it's possible to use a cheaper manufacturing process AND improve the car at the same time. There have been some track tests floating about that suggest that the new Mini's performance is going to be slightly improved over the 2006; I doubt that Mini is seriously dumbing down car whose reputation is built on it's handling, but that remains to be seen.

    Again, I bought a 2006, and I'd do it again; I'm not sold on the 2007's--yet. But down the road, I might be...
  • sfinstersfinster Member Posts: 17
    The gas door does not lock when the car is locked. I have a Fit Sport. I wouldn't be surprised if the Jazz has this feature, though.
  • hungarian83hungarian83 Member Posts: 678
    All Fits/Jazzes around the world have the locking fuel filler door except for the United States and Canada.
This discussion has been closed.