Acura TL vs Lexus IS 250 vs Acura TSX

dr_g · May 2006

Yep a Contour - rather a Contour SVT. When you have 170+ whp and 3000 lb curb weight you can get up to speed faster than a TSX and the suspension is so solid it would run circles around the 3 cars discussed in this thread. Of course the car has long since been discontinued since Ford marketed it stupidly - I saw so many rentals and grandmas driving the car it made me sick

. Still, based off the Mondea platform, it was a nice car in it's day.

The TL hauls gluteus for my needs. Add a AEM CAI, a UR pulley, a Comptech RSB, and Tein basic setup and it will probably leave the TSX and IS250 in the dust in the canyons - of course it costs considerably more for that performance.

z71bill · July 2006

I test drove all three several times -

The TSX was a complete let down - not at all what I expected. Needed to floor it to get it to move - ride was harsh - handling was poor - sloppy in the corners - after driving two different TSX's - we did not even bother driving the TL (big mistake) - decided the IS was the car!

Problem was I could not find an IS (wanted the 250 - would have taken the 350) with anywhere near the options we wanted. Did not want black interior or nav - hate the wood trim. I like to walk in - drive the car - write a check and drive off - I worked with two dealerships - for more than a month - and all they ever had was cars coming in 3 weeks - and they were not what we wanted!

Went back and drove a TL - wife loved it (this is her car - so she decides) - the dealer had 20 in stock the exact way we wanted - paid less than invoice with no haggle.

The TL is not as nice as the IS - it is really just an Accord - this is a fact - the TSX is also an Accord - the 2002 European Accord - also a fact. I would have picked the 2006 Civic EX coupe or Accord EX coupe over the TSX - wife killed the 2 door idea - the 4 door looks like a car an old person would drive (which I am).

I did not even talk price with Lexus - hard to really push for a low price when they are selling before they get to the dealership.

waw40 · July 2006

After a 4-month wait for a special order from Japan, I got my TSX 2 months ago and I can now, like many other owners before me, confirm that the car is very comfortable and well equipped, handles marvelously, and although not a drag racer, has more than adequate power/torque for highway passing in the 50-90mph range and for highway entering in the 40-70 mph range. To all who consider a TSX, however, I would strongly recommend the MT version, which in comparison with the AT version behaves like a different, much more fun-to-drive vehicle. Of course, if you prefer to pay a few thousand more for a Lexus brand with a cramped back seat that doesn't fold and less nimble handling, you may opt for IS250, which is otherwise a fine car, too. And if you want a larger family sedan above the Accord level, go for a TL.

TSX has a lot in common with European Accord, Executive version, but whoever maintains that they are the same cars (like it was something negative to resemble a European car)obviously has not driven at least one of those models.

johnny420 · July 2006

Good write-up and congrats on the car.

vitocorleone · July 2006

For what it's worth, for me:

The TSX is not as much a mainstream vehicle like the TL. It appeals to far fewer people. Those that truly appreciate it typically appreciate how balanced it is across the board, from performance to design to price. This is a big part of why the TSX has been on C&D's Top 10 and the TL has not. Most Americans want more power than the TSX currently offers, which is where the extremely nice TL fits in, an it throws in some other goodies as well. I did not find the differences the TL offers to warrant the higher price - indeed, I felt there were too many shortcomings in the TL when compared to the TSX. And, no, it was not a matter of whether I could afford the TL - I simply want to feel like I get the most for my money (bang-for-buck etc), and the TL did not cut it for me.

The TSX vs. TL
* The TSX is a wonderfully balanced machine, excelling only in one thing: being good in everything (notice I did not say great in everything). This dynamic balance gives it more soul than any Honda/Acura Ive ever driven. The TL gave me a feeling of substance and weight and age, distantly reminding me in some ways of rental Buicks and Oldsmobiles Ive been forced to drive from time to time

* Exterior is more conservatively styled, so will likely age even better than the TL (plan to keep car 10 years). The TL is too wide for regular urban driving, given narrow lanes and even narrower parking stalls and support pillars in garages  there have been several times where I said Glad I didnt get the TL  I never couldve fit in this spot!)

* The steering and handling feel in the TSX was much more communicative and dynamic. The TL felt a little floaty in comparison, though it was still good. After getting the TSX in '04 was surprised when I first saw that the TL pulls slightly more gs on the skidpad (how much more varies based on the review), because the steering did not inspire confidence in me when driving it hard unlike the TSX. Fortunately, I replaced the OEM tires on my TSX with new Yoko Avid V4s at a mere 2,000 miles and that alone made a substantial improvement in grip

* I love Honda I4s, and the power of the TL did not impress me enough to make it a factor at all in my decision. Some people cannot stand having to rev an engine, especially those coming from American cars it seems, so the TSX is not a good car for them. Personally, I appreciate how the TSX can be a mild mannered gas-sipping commuter at low rpms and an aggressive canyon-carving, gas-slurping machine when maintaining high rpms. It also takes longer to learn how to optimally drive an I4 than a 6 because you have to learn the rpm curve  this turns a lot of people off, but, again, I like it. Not once in 2 years of varied driving conditions have I ever needed more power in the TSX. If ever I do, Ill go get an ECU reflash for starters (lots of performance mods available for the TSX if thats your thing  its not mine). I've read reliable reports of people getting over 40+ mpg in the TSX on the highway.

* The interior of the TSX is ergonomic and slick. I felt that the TL interior was bloated, overwrought, and simply too wide for our taste. The instrumentation cluster of the TSX was light years ahead of the TLs in ease-of-use and outright appearance. The seats of the TL were like lounge chairs: very comfortable for sitting, not supportive enough for sporty driving. The TSX has a split, fold-down rear seat  an absolute necessity given that the TSX is our only car and we have a baby (its come in handy for those trips to Home Depot)

* Did not want or need nav because I spent the money (and more) that the nav option on upgrading the speakers and amp. As far as stock systems go, it was a toss-up for CDs and radio (the TLs system was only truly impressive for the hard-to-find-the-music-I-listen-to DVD-A discs). Since the TSX system was not designed like the TL, it was an easy decision to rip out the speakers.

PS - the TSX virtually is the Euro Accord, it doesn't merely have a lot in common ;-P. Also, whoever had the Contour, be aware that at least on the skidpad, the TSX and TL are roughly equal (again, every review varies), so "running circles" around them is quite unlikely.

goodegg · July 2006

I had a diametrically opposite view of the same cars - the TSX vs the TL.

The TSX is just too slow! You gotta rev it up to 6-7000 rpms to get any giddyup? Na. Not for me.

What's the problem with the guages now? A speedo, a tach, another cluster. All in a beautiful blue glow. What's this lightyears ahead business? Kinda silly.

And how much 'wider' is a TL vs a TSX. 2"? Yea - that makes all the difference in the world.

Sounds like someone trying to justify their purchase when others just would kick it to the curb.

richey02hg · July 2006

my POV just comes down to cost right now

Lexus IS should be at a price in betweeen the TL and TSX and im getting quotes 1k + over the TL

so for the TL/IS comparison, the TL is just at a better value right now

for the TL/TSK comparison it basically comes down to do i want to spend 26k on a car or 30k on a car

or if i want to get an IS, spend 31k on a car that is smaller and not even really in the same class as the TL

johnny420 · July 2006

Excellent, concise write-up, Vito.

johnny420 · July 2006

I had a diametrically opposite view of the same cars - the TSX vs the TL.

The TSX is just too slow! You gotta rev it up to 6-7000 rpms to get any giddyup? Na. Not for me

Did you even read his post? Vitocorleone's post: well-informed, well-written and objective, with his subjective preferences interlaced. Your post: "diametrically opposite" to his, poorly-written and poorly informed.

He explained his reasons for choosing the TSX over the TL, all the while giving due props to the excellent TL, and you didn't do a good job of explaining your decision in choosing the TL. You just regurgitated tired arguements about lack of power. Horsepower rules, dude! Rock on!

If thoroughly enjoying your car and appreciating its attributes is "justifying your purchase," then so be it.

Between the two of you, who do you think comes off as the more discerning automotive enthusiast?

maximafan · July 2006

Who cares who is the most discerning
automotive enthusiast here?
Vito has his opinions about the cars
mentioned here and so does Leadfoot6. It
doesn't mean what he has to say is "poorly
written" and "poorly informed". I happen to
feel the same way.
While the TSX is a nice-looking car and has
a nice interior, it doesn't have enough
power for me and it's also a smaller car.
I'm coming from a Maxima here, so I'm not
interested in going too much smaller than
that, and the TL fits the bill very nicely.

These forums are about peoples' personal
opinions on the various vehicles on this
website. There's no reason to be so harsh.

We all have some particular reason why we
like one car better than another, and
those things may seem like nit-picking to
somebody else. But, hey, you know what? The
the one that's shelling out the cash is the
one that's got to be happy with their
ultimate choice.

I've driven some 4-cylinder autos, and while
I am impressed with how much zip they have
these days, I still prefer a 6-cylinder
because I like the sound or the exhaust of
a V6( a little throatier) than the buzziness
and possibly the coarseness or the noisiness
that you get when revving a 4-cylinder. Does
that make me poorly informed? Maybe, but I
don't think so.
That's just what I like, and that's my
opinion.

goodegg · July 2006

Between the two of you, who do you think comes off as the more discerning automotive enthusiast

This is a blog bro.

You can say anything you want. I don't take 20 minutes deciding what to write and how to write it.

I do know that a TSX is slow compared to a TL, or even an Accord V6 for that matter.

That's enough right there to pass on the $28K TSX.

ggesq · July 2006

"The TL gave me a feeling of substance and weight and age, distantly reminding me in some ways of rental Buicks and Oldsmobiles Ive been forced to drive from time to time "

Comparing a TL to a "rental Buick or Olds is stretching it :surprise:
FYI, the TSX is a whopping 215 pds lighter than the TL.

"The TL is too wide for regular urban driving, given narrow lanes and even narrower parking stalls and support pillars in garages  there have been several times where I said Glad I didnt get the TL  I never couldve fit in this spot!)"

The TL is 2.8 inches wider than the TL. I guess that really makes a difference for ya :P
FYI, the TSX has a higher ground clearance than the TL (.3) and is .6 taller than the TL. Be careful when entering those parking garages, ya might scratch your roof

"The instrumentation cluster of the TSX was light years ahead of the TLs in ease-of-use and outright appearance."

IMHO, the TSX and the TL's instrument cluster share many, many similarities. How is it light years ahead?

Nonetheless, glad to hear you are happy with your Acura.

Hope I spent enough time writing this response, I don't want to be criticized for grammatical and spelling errors....

meateater · July 2006

Yup - I don't see paying more for a TSX than an Accord EXV6. Shoot even with Nav the Accord is probably less money.

Interesting (and confusing) overlap in the Honda/Acura lineup.

hockeytape · July 2006

Since there have already been so many comments comparing these two, I'll avoid repeating a lot of what other people have said and just go straight to my conclusion.

I drove these two cars back to back this afternoon.
The cars may appear similar on paper and in cost, but the driving experience is completely different. Note that I do not mean that they *drive* completely differently, but rather, the *experience* of driving them is very different.

Here's what I mean: sure, the motor in the TL feels a bit smoother and quieter and torquer when you get above 4000rpm (what do you expect? it has bigger displacement and two more cylinders), but you don't need to drive the cars to know that. Here's what you DO need to drive the cars in order to know: if you're comparing TL MT to TSX MT, the clutch and shifter combo in the TSX is a country mile better than the setup in the TL.

The clutch in the TL has virtually zero resistance. It is like pushing on a limp noodle. To make matters worse, the clutch in the TL feels like it has a grand total of around 4 inches of travel, and engages around 1.5 inches from the floor (again, i'm just talking about how it felt, i did not go down there with a ruler to check). I kid you not, it is the worst clutch I have driven in my life.

Is it possible someone could learn to drive it smoothly (or more importantly, enjoyably) after more time in the car? Sure. Do I want to be that someone who throws down $31k on a car in the hope that I might learn to like driving it? Uh, no.

I am not saying that the clutch in the TSX should receive a trophy or anything. (If you want see how a well implemented clutch should feel, check out the one on a Porsche.) But at least it has decent travel and engagement. Heck, it's positively wonderful compared to the one on the TL, which makes you want to rip it out of the floor.

Furthermore, the shift linkage on the TSX has the best feel of any shifter I have driven to date. At the risk of sounding absurd, the linkage on the TSX reminds me of the feel and sound of pulling a well-oiled bolt on a rifle. It has a shorter throw, smoother action, and (in my mind) a better feel than the shifter on a 911, M3, S2000 or A3. Note that the shifter on the TL is not bad at all, and in truth it is not so very different than the one in the TSX. It just doesn't feel quite as good.

So here's what I'm saying: the TL has more torque, power, and feels more luxurious than the TSX inside. The TL also has a little quieter ride and a bit less road noise. But if you're comparing MT to MT, there is really no comparison. Forget about the 0-60 times and skidpad numbers. Forget about the $5k separating them. The clutch in the TL to my mind is a non-starter. It's THAT bad.

Having said that, comparing AT to AT is a totally different proposition...

vitocorleone · July 2006

Thanks for the compliment on my brief write-up. And to everyone else: as I mentioned in my post, that was MY experience - I totally understand and expect yours to be different (I don't think I've been cloned yet). I was not exaggerating one bit on any statement I made.

Yes, the TL reminded me of driving Buicks and Oldsmobiles (no, I don't think it's the same - the TL is far better).

Yes, the those 3" of width make a real-world difference between being able to get out of the car or not in a tight parking spot, or losing a side-miror navigating between parked/moving cars and large buses or between horribly placed ad designed garage pillars (the wide turn-circle of the TSX causes problems once in awhile as it is).

Yes, after driving the TSX, the TL's cluster seemed dated (also contributing to the Buick/Olds statement)

I think the TL is a great car and went into Acura fully expecting that I'd leave with one, but it turned out that it just was not for me. I totally understand that most people would not be happy with the power delivery of the TSX - however, I am 100% satisfied with the TSX.

(ps - good write-up on the MT TSX. From what I've read from regular people and pro reviewers is that the TSX MT transmission is one of the best available on the market hands-down even compared to more expensive cars)

ontop · July 2006

Not sure why anyone would want to buy a 4 door FWD sedan the size of a TL with a manual transmission.

I think they make up about 6% of the total sales of TLs.

johnny420 · July 2006

Not sure why anyone would want to buy a 4 door FWD sedan the size of a TL with a manual transmission.

Regardless of the percentage of TL's sold with the MT, the car is marketed with sporting intentions. IMO, any such car is far more entertaining with a stick then with a gooey slushbox.

It's kind of a sad state of affairs here in the U.S. The MT is dying a slow death. Too many people more concerned with operating their cell phones than their cars.

I only hope enough enthusiasts will remain to keep demand for the venerable stick high.

boiko · July 2006

Other then my 66 Mustang, I've driven MT cars all my life. But even I must now consider AT, given the general increase in traffic and the sometimes better MPG AT's now get.

boiko · July 2006

The TSX and TL are both very good cars, and I wish you the very best as a TSX owner.

But are you sure you want to stand by your "TL cluster is dated" comment given the TSX/TL dash screenshots below. I think most people would just scratch their heads on that one..

Yes, after driving the TSX, the TL's cluster seemed dated (also contributing to the Buick/Olds statement)

www.familycar.com/RoadTests/AcuraTSX/Images/Dash.jpg
www.familycar.com/RoadTests/Acura32TL/Images2005/Dash.jpg

from_fl · July 2006

TL dash looks like
http://www.familycar.com/RoadTests/HondaAccord/Images/Dash.jpg

boiko · July 2006

When I look at the 3 dash pics.. I see a strong family resemblance between them, with the Accord on the low-end, TSX mid-range and TL high-end.

Just a bit more bling as you move up the $$ scale, as Honda intended.

stlcarguy · July 2006

With all due respect. People like us who are on sites like Edmunds and others like it are the ONLY people out there that may cross shop Hondas and Acuras. The vast majority of the massive American market would not think to cross shop an Acura TSX and a Honda Accord. That's why Acura even exists. If Honda thought that they could steal away a 3-series customer by tricking out an Accord don't you think they would have, instead of creating an entire other marque. It's a different shopper that Honda wouldn't have had a crack at otherwise. The Accord is never a bleep on that customer's radar.

I bought a TSX for a number of reasons. Would an Accord EX V6 match many (not all) of the features I have and whoop me from a stop light, sure, but I don't care.

Just my take.

z71bill · July 2006

Could debate this all day long - but there are good reasons the manual has been on a slow decline.

To understand you need to look back in history - my first two cars had 2 speed automatics - it took forever to shift from 1-2 - the term slush box would apply. My next car had a 4 speed manual - I then had 4 gears instead of 2 plus I could shift at the blink of an eye. The performance difference was very large.

Now - welcome to 2006!

5 speed automatics are everywhere - even cars like the Camry now have 6 speed automatics- some cars have 7 speed autos. If you have driven an auto in the last few years you will know that they shift pretty quick (compared to the old days - very quick). I think most of the improvement is due to electronic controls.

The difference between the auto and manual in pure performance is much less than it was in the past.

But the old feeling that manuals are much better performance wise than autos still carries on.

Most cars with a manual are still capable of being driven faster than the same car with an auto - just a fact - but because it takes a little skill to get this extra performance out of the manual - I would bet that some of the posters who are always saying - GET the manual! Could actually drive an auto faster - of course they would never agree - they are working the clutch so hard and shifting like crazy so the must be going faster!

Drive what ever makes you happy - I have nothing against a manual - have owned many - but don't try and tell me that a manual is "better" for me - because I know what is best for me.

BTW - as far as a manual being more fun to drive I agree to a point - but after driving a manual tranny for a few weeks it just becomes second nature - you don't even think about it - it sort of becomes AUTOMATIC.

laurasdada · July 2006

As always, no one can tell you that you bought the wrong car/color/tranny... Only you can tell you that! But people will try.

For me the decline of the manuall tranny began when I became a Route 95/128 commuter. Sorry, that kind of stop and go driving just sucks any fun out of rowing your own. My solution was to buy the wife a 5 speed manual car for me to drive on the weekend. But after 6.5 years she too said, "No mas" as she too commutes. Although mostly back roads, but what Lola wants, Lola gets. Lola wanted an RX300.

boiko · July 2006

I know just what you mean....Boston/NH commuter in 5-sp 300ZX, for many years now. Just waiting to see what Acura has coming in the 07 TL (ie. 300 HP, etc..)

TL, G35 Coupe, IS,....either way, after many years of driving MT cars..and with the steady increase in traffic each year..it's now time to start thinking AT.

vitocorleone · July 2006

TL vs TSX cluster (please remember I compared 2004 models when deciding on a TSX - if the newer TLs have been updated, then great!): it's hard to tell from the pictures that the guages in the (2004) TL are really recessed into separate "holes", whereas the TSX guages are flat. These recessed guages are what reminded me of both older cars as well as American cars. Add in the actual layout and design of the guages, and, to me, the difference is even greater.

cincyracegirl · August 2006

Just my $.02...

I wouldn't consider the TSX simply because it is a 4-cyl. That is just my personal preference, but I am looking for a 6 cyl. I see them everywhere, too. The IS250 isn't everywhere I turn. Car handles great (even though I wish it had more hp and came in a MT in the AWD), and I love the way it looks inside and out. It was a no brainer for me, but good luck in your decision!

biker4 · August 2006

What if that 4 cyl had better performance than the 6 cyl? Getting a car by counting cylinders without looking at the overall picture is rather short sited.

If you consider the current sales volume (~3500 for TSX and ~5000 for the IS) it seems the TSX is more exclusive than the IS. :shades:

taxesquire · August 2006

Good point about the cylinders. If all you cared about was sportiness, the 4 cylinder Mazdaspeed 6 will blow all the cars in this discussion out of the water!!!

benzoservceguy · August 2006

Yeah, but who really want's FORD crap anyway?
Reliability and ANY FORD product are an oxymoron ..
like:
pretty ugly
jumbo shrimp
free gift

etc etc etc

z71bill · August 2006

free gift? Are you sure this is an oxymoron?

taxesquire · August 2006

If I were buying a car, it'd be between the TL and the Maxdaspeed 6. I think the TL would edge it out based on luxury, but I'm not sure the Mazda wouldn't be more fun.

from_fl · August 2006

I don't like both TL and Mazda 6.
I don't like TSX, either.

laurasdada · August 2006

I don't like Mondays.

maximafan · August 2006

I take it this means you like the IS250?

cincyracegirl · August 2006

Like I said - I just prefer a 6 cyl. I am sure you are short SIGHTED by oher things - color, make, etc. It is called setting a priority.

biker4 · August 2006

Yep - one of my priorities is a certain level of performance - but I could care less how the maker achieves that (be it 0, 2, 4, 6, 12 cyl). :shades:

scottm123 · August 2006

Well, this thread has taken a downward spiral...

My wife's Honda Accord had minor rear bumper damage when it was tapped in traffic.
It was in the dealer for 3 weeks getting repaired (Yeah, 3 weeks, long story)
She had a Mazda 6 as a rental.

I took it out, it was kinda fun to drive but I wouldn't want to own one.
I bet the Speed6 is a blast to drive, but there is no long-term quality there.
As with any Ford based product... the novelty wears off and then the problems start.

I loved my 94 Ford Taurus SHO.... loved it.
Then it started to need what I would consider minor repairs.
Alternator, starter, wiper motor, AC Compressor...
They added up WAY to quickly and I had to get rid of that car.... still miss it at times.

My wife had a Ford Contour SVT.
Nothing to look at but holy cow, what a fun little car to drive.
Also a complete POS.

I'm done with Ford, and that includes the Mazda counterpart.
The Mazda cars look kinda neat lately, but if your looking for long term quality, look elsewhere.
If you're comparing long term quality, no Mazda will ever live up to Honda/Acura longevity.

Oh, and I also despise Mondays as well.

taxesquire · August 2006

was your rental a 4 cyl Mazda6 or a 6 cyl?

scottm123 · August 2006

Our rental was a Mazda6 s 5-Door Sport in, of all colors, Bright Island Blue.

It had the 6-Speed Auto trans and I beat the life out of it on the highway.

Anywho, like I said, it was fun to beat on, but I wouldn't want one to own, personally.

Now, the MazdaSpeed6, I have not had the chance to drive, but I bet that's loads of fun to romp on.... I just need to have the best from both worlds... Fun to drive, and something that'll last me a while.
I dump TONS of miles on my cars each year, and keep them for 5 or 6 years, so I need something that'll last without massive costs in repairs.

taxesquire · August 2006

I understand, and I value your decision. I test drove a Mazda6 and liked the feel, but went with the TL b/c the 6 was underpowered. I definitely wasn't in the car long enough to base a judgment on fit and finish.

scottm123 · August 2006

I'm still undecided.
I like the TL, don't get me wrong... but when I sit in a car, I either feel a real fire for it, or I don't... and I don't get that with the TL.
I wish I did... it offers so much for the price.

My wife has a very nice Accord EX, and it is nice, but it does absolutely nothing for me.
I'm afraid of getting the TL and having the novelty wear off far too soon.

I'm liking the Lexus IS350 ( a lot! ), but I'm worried about MA winters and my long commute through highways as well as unplowed back roads. The Lexus IS250 is too under-powered.

I'm looking forward to seeing the new '07 Infiniti G35x AWD, complete with AWD, 300+ hp, paddle shifts, keyless ignition, etc.
The Infiniti's of today do nothing for me, maybe the redesigned 07 will be nicer.

laurasdada · August 2006

An IS350 with a set of great snow tires, traction electronics and smart winter driving skills may get you around during the winter. I've read posts from a gentleman who lives in the hills of New Hampster who puts snows on his RWD BMW and claims he has no snow driving problems. I can't offer first hand experience, though, as I've always driven FWD (or evil wife's AWD).

The TL is appealing to your logical brain, but it sounds like your emotional brain is behind the wheel of the IS already! I was lucky in that the TL appealed (enough, at least) to both sides or my brain to allow me to be a happy owner (but again, the TL is not great in the snow out of the box. It needs snow tires, or much better all-seasons if you're heading north to ski...).

I'd seriously listen to the emotional side when purchasing...

louiswei · August 2006

I am with you 100%.

I choose the IS350 over TL because I felt "no fire" sitting inside of a TL. However, I like TL's interior design better over 3er, G and yes even my IS. I don't know how to explain this, I guess I was confused.

Given where you live (MA), I would not get an IS350 if I were you. Yes it has VDIM, traction control and snow tires should help but in reality it is still a RWD. And we all know that RWD doesn't mix well with snow no matter what. Also, I agree that the IS250 is underpowered but it'll get you through the winter time all right. However, it won't give you the excitement as the IS350 would on an open highway in mid-July.

Like you said, your best bet is probably waiting for the 07 G35x, it would likely give you a lot performance along with AWD. I've heard that the interior of the new G has improved a lot but I doubt that it'll rival the IS or even the TL. Another alternative for you is probably the new 3er. I believe that both the 330 and 328 will have AWD option. With 328 at 240+ HP and 330 at 300 HP they should offer enough performance plus BMW's unique driving dynamics. However, for me the interior alone of the 3er is enough to break the deal.

Just my 2 cents. Keep us updated.

scottm123 · August 2006

Well, I'm concerned with the performance in Snow, but I do have the wife in our MDX if the sky falls all at once.
I'll have snows on any car RWD, FWD or AWD, just cause it's smart doin's here in NE.

As for the cars themselves, that's the other half of the deciding factor.

With Interior looks in mind, I give 1st place to the TL, 2nd place to the IS and 3rd to the G35

With Interior comfort in mind, the IS takes 1st by far, 2nd would be the TL, only cause I haven't yet sat in the G.

I'll need to drive the 07 G35x and see if they did any good with they're hideous interior.
They claim that they righted their wrongs, but their little flash site for the 07 G doesn't show enough to know for sure. I'll say this though, the 07 interior is still ugly!

The 07's should be out in another month or so :shades:

johnny420 · August 2006

And we all know that RWD doesn't mix well with snow no matter what

This just isn't true. Read laurasdada's post above. A good set of snows, modern traction systems and smart driving skills and there is no problem.

People drive RWD cars in snowy weather all over the country. The key is getting good snow tires, it makes all the difference. The same could be said for FWD vehicles.

scottm123 · August 2006

Well, don't take the statement so literally and think about what is being said.

Go to the lot of any car manufacturer and find a RWD car.
They no longer come with small, narrow tires like a lot of models from the 70's

RWD cars today are performance vehicles with performance tires.
No RWD car, without snow tires, is safe in the snow.
I see idiots all the time in the winter, trying to drive their bimmers and they just sit and spin, and slide slowly sideways until they're stuck in a gutter or snowbank.

This can not be said for all FWD cars.
Most in fact, are snow ready when they leave the lot.
Only the models with performance tires really need to have snows installed.... and even then, most people in the snow belt are too dumb or cheap to buy the snow tires that they should be running.

I'm well aware of the fact you're making.
I'm considering the RWD IS350 and plan on driving it in the snow.
And yes, the Snows are a must!

mrgold35 · August 2006

I'm glad I live in New Mexico. I've used my snow shovel 3 times in 5 years; I finally broke it when I was using it for shoveling dirt while gardening last year. The closest my TSX gets to ice is when I get a Big Gulp from 7-eleven.

Luv my TSX!!

laurasdada · August 2006

Took the evil wife's RX300 in for service, got an IS250 AWD loaner car, just for the morning. Very brief observations vs. my TL:

The IS seats just feel better than the TL seats. But again, no long seat time in the IS. IS seats felt like they had more cushoning (especially on the bottom) and were a little wider. I didn't feel the side bolsters as much as I do in the TL.

I'm 5'10", with the driver's seat set for me I could sit in back behind it without my knees bumping the front seat. The TL has more room, but it is a bigger car. I doubt I'd like to spend a long time in the back of the IS with another passenger. Well, maybe it depends upon who the other passenger is!

Overall I like the TL interior better: More interesting shapes and materials. I also like the TL insturmentation more, although the IS instrument cluster is simple, handsome. The rubber foot brake cover kept popping off, but this is a loaner...

If you're claustrophobic, the IS with a dark interior is a place you may want to avoid. No bother to me, I like the "tailored" fit feeling.

Exterior style for me goes to the TL. The IS is handsome, but I don't find it's slab sided, high greenhouse/small windows as interesting at the TLs overall wedge shape with the character line, nicely detailed by being mimicked in the door handles and front parking lamps and integrated side markers, running down the side. Also the contrast of the TL rear side windows sloping down angle vs. the sail panel of the roof. An Acua with style, an oxymoron?

The IS engine seems very smooth with nice pickup but lacking the power of the TL. Tried the cooled seats in the IS, couldn't tell if they were doing anything, but I'd take 'em in the TL. Didn't really have time to test the handling of the IS, but it did feel quite planted to the road. But so does my TL.

So, although only a brief exposure, nothing about the IS has me thinking of trading. For me, the TL is just more car and a better car and value. Now, the IS350, that may be a different story! Or the rumored convertible, that will definately be on my list...

scottm123 · August 2006

Well, I give you credit.
You have tested out the competition, decided your TL is better for you, and posted a fair opinion.

I agree that the back seat is a little small, but like you said, it's not non-functional.

I know that you favor the look of the TL.
My brother-in-law and I have had this conversation.
He prefers the straight lines of the TL, while I prefer the curves of the IS.
Both cars are pretty in their own way, but we all have our preferences.
Personally (and just my opinion) I find the TL's exterior sorta plain, and almost feminine.
I think the IS offers a much more aggressive look.

I agree with the TL's interior. Looking at it, I think it's prettier, as long as it doesn't have that faux wood trim.
You said that you prefer the TL's interior shapes and materials.
Shapes I understand, but materials?
The IS offers a more comfortable, softer, longer lasting leather, offers real wood trim (offers metal if you don't like the wood look) and just the feel of things... I find much more impressive. The feel of the steering wheel, the dash, the head liner.... all take first place in my own opinion.
I also tried the cooled seats... on a very hot day.
Setting 1, I didn't really notice.
Setting 2 and 3 were awesome, and helped a lot.
I've always had issues with damp shirts on hot summer days.
Those cooled seats are absolutely incredible in my opinion.
They don't make you cold, but do keep you ventilated and most importantly, dry.

I wish you had the IS350 for your loaner, because the lack of power wouldn't have been an issue. I personally think it's unfair to compare the TL to the 250, for this reason alone.

So, did you have the 6-speed stick, or the Auto?
Did you like/dislike the paddle shifts?
I love them in the IS350, find them sorta useless in the 250.

Thanks for your fair opinion.

Acura TL vs Lexus IS 250 vs Acura TSX

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