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I'm sorry, but I am continuing to need to remove misplaced posts. Folks interested in that subject need to find whichever of the multiple Toyota discussions on that board that interests you - I don't want to move your post to one that you haven't chosen.
Thanks!
Toyota has been silent on the issue so we're all speculating.
Im not an automotive engineer, nor should I have to be to own a reliable car.
while for some, it does seems to point to parameter mapping in the ECU or TCM which ultimately handles throttle and transmission control, it's still possible that a hardware issue exists which is being complicated by the embedded software programming in these controllers...
for example possibly the zero calibration of the throttle position sensor (TPS) or accelerator pedal is being reset when the vehicle's power supply is interrupted. cutting battery power to the controllers could force the programming to default to initial settings which are then refined over time and activation cycles.
this would explain (potentially) why some people don't notice a problem at all, but then after some mileage on the vehicle, have an issue.
if this were the sole contributing cause (ie software programming and NOT hardware), then one would think
a). everyone would have the problems cited, and
b). the manufacturer would have solved it by now
but this is clearly not the case.
if only a transmission control / engine control engineer would frequent the forum and weigh-in on probable causes of the observations.
please let us know if the hesitation comes back. hopefully it will not. good luck.
Excuse my clumsy editing for brevity's sake, user777, but your thoughts on this issue are intriguing. I would only add the possibility that some circuitry component provided by one of Toyota's suppliers out of perhaps several suppliers in the ECM and/or TCM may be marginally rated for its designed function and kicking the throttle response to an extreme setting once the "learning" experience begins (or begins anew after the battery disconnect reset). Those recent '07 Camry buyers "lucky" enough to get the flakey circuit board component from the particular supplier end up with the drivability problem. Let me further hasten to point out that this is speculation, only, not a hard and fast diagnosis.
yeah, i could see that. a marginal part - something the designers didn't consider would be an outlier.
After careful tests I have determined that on my car there is hesitation only if I gently press the gas pedal. This is fine because it saves gas.
When I stab the pedal, the car takes off briskly.
The hesitation problem for the newest transmission and software combination may also be related to how quickly and how far you press the pedal. The computer can easily determine how fast you are moving the pedal, which makes this different from what we are used to with a non-computerized transmission.
I suggest that you take a test drive where there is little traffic and experiment with "stabbing" the pedal.
I am looking for a new car and after reading all the tranmission post might look at a altima or honda. As far as you know are all the camry's of 2007 affected?
Stan Holz
Well, last night was the first COOL night of the summer, 50 degrees and we had NOT encountered the 3 to 4 RMP spike before. Guess WHAT? It's there! Just a little spike which was NOT there when it was 70 degrees or more every morning. I can't wait for the 0 degree mornings! If you live in the southern climates, you will most likely never experience this issue BUT for us NORTHERN residents, Canada and the Northern US states, you will have to have the TSB applied. Not certain if Toyota has "fixed" later production models, but our SE V6 weas built in late April and it has the SPIKE!
I will not take it to the dealer until later this autumn, as that is when the first oil change is required.
Anyway, ALL you V6 owners, do a test and let us know. Check out you Temperature gauge. When it was warm, the gauge would move almost immediately. Last night, it barely moved and the SPIKE occured!
I can't wait for the cooler mornings!
The AT 5th gearing is overdrive gearing, which keeps the rpm's low (and mpg high). If you look at the engine spec's (I posted previously on my carspace), you see that both the HP and engine torque are low when the rpm's are low. In my opinion, I think the reduced engine performance can't hold the target speed without downshifting, sometimes from 5th to 3rd which is pretty jarring. If I remember an earlier post correctly, at least one reader has reported an overly lean condition recorded by a Toyota rep, which might be another contributing factor.
So if I were buying a MT, I'd check to see whether this problem existed while driving. You could also check the comparative gearing ratios between the two transmissions.
A number of readers aren't reporting the cruise control or hesitation problem at all....so hard to speculate why some vehicles have this, and others don't.
No hesitation or cruise control problems with my XLE I4.
I would not think it would be as bad as with a 5AT since you can leave your car in whatever gear you are using and apply as much throttle as needed to overcome the leanness, but I haven't driven a 5MT so I can't really speak with any authority.
I would also urge you to do a serious extended test drive and check out how the car responds after slowing down and attempting to speed up again. Also, check how the car accelerates from a steady speed of 50 and/or 60MPH. This should satisfy you that the vehicle you are purchasing either does have the problem and you can live with it or not or the vehicle does not have the problem and you can be happy with the performance.
In a number of other cars I've recently driven, some with 4AT's and some with 5AT's, upon throttle application the transmission will stay locked up in the gear you are cruising in and accelerate smoothly until you give a substantial push on the go pedal. My wife's Vibe (Corolla 4-cyl) will maintain lockup at 1500rpm (40mph) and pull smoothly up to 60 or 70mph with no hesitation, no unlock, no downshift. My '03 Camry 4-cyl 4AT would do the same. I could list a number of cars I have driven in the lat six months that operate in the same reasonable manner - EXCEPT for the '07 Camry. Darn car is programmed in such a way as to be extremely aggravating to drive, and not condusive to getting good fuel economy with all the downshifting and thrashing of the engine. And today I won't get into the unsafe situations this type of operation puts me in - nope, not today.
I know that Toyota issued a TSB in early August saying that they had a revised valve body that would fix the issue, so I'm curious as to whether or not the valve body replacement actually did anything or not.
Many posters on the internet report problems of hesitation or RPM flares on the 4/5A systems. Most new owners by a huge margin do not report any serious deficiences in the 4/5A system.
It appears for now to be very annoying for those with the 4/5A problems but it is also very sporadic and very limited in scope.
if true (irrespective of MT vs. AT) this would tend to de-emphasize the transmission or transmission control or transmission valve body and/or solenoids as somehow at root cause.
still leaves the accelerator pedal and throttle body assemblies at potential root cause if both the MT and AT versions are DBW technology.
of course there are many other variables to consider.
There are no reported instances of RPM flares (spikes) with the 4-cyl 5AT systems. The flare issue is with the V6 6AT system and is still found in vehicles sitting on dealers lots. The issue has reportedly been fixed with a recent TSB.
Also, I have not seen a "huge" number of owners reporting no problems with the 4-cyl 5AT. A good percentage of owner reviews mention their dissatisfaction with hesitation and/or excessive gear hunting during cruise control operation.
I dealt with the problem for about a month, but the RPM spiking was starting to get worse. At first it was cold starts in the am. only, then at lunch, and then after work. My problems started in late June with about 2000 miles on her. (VIN is 504703 / April '06 I think)
Last week I called TMS, got a case file, and took my dealer's Customer Relations Manager for a 'little ride' he won't soon forget. The RPM spike has now been recorded and sent to the tech group who recommended the valve body replacement. I'm driving a '07 LE 4Cyl that smells like a dog while an O'ring is on back order until the 31st.
It was a little unnerving to find this forum. I waited on this car for months and can't believe this is happening to me. I really hate her and she hates me.
I'll update you next week--if I get her back next week.
you realize that you can get a colder temp in the interior of the vehicle if you place the vents on recirc (i presume you have a setting between outside/fresh air and recirculation) right?
I think what you are confirming to me is that if I have hte RPM spiking, I may have to replace the entire transmission, tans axle and torque convertor.(transmission valve body alone won't fix it(TC008-06)!)
Sure sounds like I want a replacement auto like what was offered originally.
How long after the valve body was replaced did the RPM spike happen again? Did your car leave the service department or did they know that the problem was not fixed?
Good bye Toyota
For the rest of you good luck
Do anyone know how to remove the rear bottom cushion?
Thanks in advance
AC
Lift up one side of the cushion at a time and it will lift right out.
Opposite for reinstall.
Why is Toyota wasting my time and their money? If replacing the valve body has not resolved the RPM Spike issue for anyone else, why are they attempting this fix for both me and other. It seems as though they should be taking notes and learning from past experience.
I'm really happy that you love your car again. I hope that I can be as forgiving. I agree with mesquite57 that the work done on your car sounds very invasive. I'm very uneasy about it.
THey have had my car for 2 weeks and tell me they are waiting on a O ring for the valve body. go figure
Anxious XLE
TC004-06 3RD - 4TH GEAR SHIFT FLARE (REVISED)
8/7/2006 - 2007 model year ES 350 vehicles.
Some customers may experience a sharp increase in RPM between the 3rd to 4th
gear shift point during the first ten minutes of operation after a cold start. A revised transmission valve body has been developed to address this concern.
NOTE: This TSIB ONLY applies to vehicles that have been confirmed to have the customer concerns listed above.
File is associated with other vehicles. 2007 Lexus ES350 08-07-2006
86Kbytes
TC008-06 3RD - 4TH GEAR SHIFT FLARE (REVISED)
8/7/2006 - 2007 model year Camry vehicles equipped with the V6 engine.
Some customers may experience a sharp increase in RPM between the 3rd to 4th
gear shift point during the first ten minutes of operation after a cold start. A revised transmission valve body has been developed to address this concern.
NOTE: This TSB ONLY applies to vehicles that have been confirmed to have the customer
concerns listed above.
In 1983, I had a Pontiac J2000 with a low-level "hum" between 45 to 65 mph that was giving me actual headaches after 30-40 minutes of driving the car. The salesman, service techs, and the district service manager could not hear or feel the "hum." A factory engineer came to the dealership and asked me a few questions about the "hum" and then went for a ride with me. He asked me if any other people had commented on the problem and I stated that my carpool associates and my wife did not seem to notice the "hum" like I did. Now at this point he could have said that there didn't seem to be any problem and it would have left me a frustrated owner looking to get rid of the car because I just wasn't going to put up with the headache issue. But no, he matter-of-factly stated that there was a known sub-harmonic, low frequency vibration occuring in the J2000 and that it only affected a very small number of people who were sensitive to the "low frequency bass vibrations." He said that, if I wanted to get out of the car, Pontiac would offer to give me 100% of my money back towards any other Pontiac vehicle. I had owned the vehicle for six months and I arranged to purchase a Pontiac 6000 on the spot. That is what I call being honest with the customer and showing them due respect. Pontiac stepped up and dealt both courteously and honestly with me. I haven't forgotten that and I still purchase Pontiac vehicles.
Toyota knows that there is a hesitation issue with some 4-cyl 5AT Camry's, but refuses to be honest with the owners. In the long run, this attitude is going to hurt them, especially if it spreads to other issues.
Concerned Concumer,
Brian in PA
It is interesting to note that the teaching procedure after the repair is quite specific and, if not followed properly, could lead to a transmission that continues to exhibit the flare.
That implies that they understand what is causing the flare. But posters here indicate Toyo doesn't seem to know what's causing the flare in their existing transmissions.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,