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Comments
This time they can't say the box was damaged in the fire and several mangling of the accident of the Camry ES 350 in San Diego.
Since no one else was there, no one can say they did step on the wrong pedal. That hasn't been used since the Audi 5000. Are you suggesting the Toyota brake pedal is too close to the gas pedal?
Personally, I think wwest in another discussion on same topic is on to the true etymology of the cause of _some_ of the crashes along with some improper extra mats in certain close clearance vehicles and possibly a few with a "sticky" gas pedal or sensor--but I'm becoming less convinced of that after seeing one disassembled.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnFp2yLBnNQ
And one where the video maker posits some of the possible problems in the controls, pedal, throttle body, and computer/firmware.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHotbtd7HJA&feature=related
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
With regard to Mr. West, I have found his explanations confusing to say the least, and not just in regard to this sudden acceleration issue. I don't see how he would know so much more than the engineers with Toyota and CTS who are much closer to the issue.
As for the videos, very interesting to see the parts involved. I may have to remove the gas pedal from my 2004 Camry (not involved in either recall) to see if it's the same. His conclusions about the cause are still his opinions, though.
With the traditional drain and refill, you only get about half of the old fluid out. Still, if you repeat the procedure often enough, you eventually replace all of the original fluid.
When to change the fluid is a matter of heated debate. Certainly if the car is used in high-temperature, high-load conditions (such a towing a trailer), then frequent changes (say every 20,000 miles) are a must.
For normal use, the consensus is to change it at about 35,000 to 50,000 miles. I did it once so far at 38K miles for my '04 Camry (did not replace the filter though), which now has nearly 71K miles. Since I did it myself, I only had to pay for 4 quarts of fluid.
I said, “ Four people were killed in run away Toyota with floor mat in the trunk.”
It was a statement of fact. No opinion of mine was expressed in that statement regarding the “real” cause of the Avalon tragedy. When you are so jumpy as to conclude that I was “certain” about the real cause of the tragedy, you are behaving like a guilt-laden cheater who retorted “ How are you so certain I am the father of that baby?” when his wife only told him “ John, it’s not good. The newspaper reports that the woman you admitted to have an affair with has become pregnant.”
As a matter of fact, the police can easily determine if the driver had tried to stop the run away Avalon by stepping hard on the brake or the driver had stepped hard on the gas all the way to cause the Avalon to hit a fence then plunge into the river. If there are signs of the brakes overheated, it certainly points to the case of a run away Avalon not caused by the gas pedal stuck on a floor mat.
No, I’m not certain about the real cause of the Avalon tragedy that killed four people but I’m certain that it wasn’t caused by the gas pedal stuck on the floor mat. I’m also certain that that malfunction of the drive by wire system in the Avalon can not be ruled out and certainly deserves to be looked into as a probable cause when there are numerous complaints relating to Vehicle Speed Control by owners of Camry and Avalon on the NHTSA site, some of whom mentioned that their floor mats had already be removed or sure the gas pedal was not stuck on the floor mat.
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/complaints/
You just choose the year, make, model of the vehicle, then choose various components relating to Vehicle Speed Control one and then click on Get Summary to read the details of the complaints. To understand the scope of the problem, you should search a model over a number of years and do comparative search as well.
For examples:
There are 156 complaints related to Vehicle Speed Control for 2007 Toyota Camry but only 11 complaints of same nature for 2007 Honda Accord.
There are 25 complaints related to Vehicle Speed Control for 2005 Toyota Avalon but only 8 complaints of same nature for 2005 Honda Civic.
Please note that only complaints are recorded. In the case of the 2008 Toyota Avalon with four people killed, it was not included in the complaints in the NHTSA site because the driver and the passengers were all dead. The dead driver could not make a complaint. Therefore the problem is in fact more serious than that reflected by the complaints filed by drivers who survived the accidents or malfunctions of unintended acceleration..
Bu reading the summaries of the complaints of those Toyota owners, it is really hard to understand how Toyota could have denied having the serious problem of unintended acceleration on their vehicles for so long. A Congress hearing regarding Toyota’s handling of complaints regarding unintended acceleration is overdue.
Agreed, agreed, agreed, agreed, agreed!!!
Toyota factory, customer service AND their dealerships have been in complete denial....with heads SO big about their reputation it's hard to imagine how they could get them shoved so far up their keesters!
I got the same "non-response" on the ECM reprogramming for months and months before finally having to PRINT OUT the TSB and take it, yelling, into the owner of the dealership's office. Only THEN did he finally ask that his service department pay any attention to my issue. (Up until then, the service department tried to tell me "all drive by wire cars respond that way.....your car is normal....that isn't even a TSB you're holding.......that's not even a Toyota document!")
Right!
I just wanna take all the recall clippings I can find and go throw them all over their showroom floor.
Michael
I didn't even bother to complain to the dealership because Toyota denied having vehicle speed control problems in early 2007 and there was no way I could assure the hesitation could be duplicated by the Toyota dealership. I lost lots of money trading it in. Even if they could duplicate it, I'm sure they would say it's normal in drive by wire. Of course that's not normal. I own a Nissan Sentra 2007 since then and found the speed control very reliable and responsive and I was surprised to find out that it also uses DBW to control the throttle (The only drawback is that the ride is kind of rough). So DBW can be made reliable but if a problem occurs, the cause can be much more difficult to identify than a cable connected throttle system.
How did the ECM reprogramming work out in your Toyota vehicle? If it has solved the problem, that means there are multiple causes for the vehicle speed control problems instead of just the gas pedal getting stuck on the floor mat as Toyota seems to telling the mass media.
The following is a complaint taken from the NHTSA site regarding unintended acceleration in a Toyota vehicle that has been positively demonstrated to a Toyota dealership as the result of a faulty drive by wire system instead of the gas peddle getting stuck on the floor mat.
Complaint number: 10300210
"I OWN A 2007 AVALON. IN THE PAST 6 MONTHS I HAVE EXPERIENCED 5 EVENTS WHERE THE CAR ACCELERATED ON ITS OWN PRIOR TO THE FINAL EVENTS LEADING UP TO THIS REPORT. SEVERAL TIMES I EXPERIENCED THE CAR ACCELERATING WITHOUT MY FOOT ON THE GAS PEDAL AS I DROVE THROUGH TOWN.THE CAR WOULD GO BACK TO ITS CORRECT RPMS AFTER DRIVING A FEW MILES OR AFTER THE CAR WAS STOPPED AND PUT INTO PARK.AFTER EXPERIENCING THE SUDDEN ACCELERATION THE THIRD TIME I TOOK MY VEHICLE TO BE CHECKED AT MY LOCAL AUTO SHOP. THEY COULD NOT FIND ANYTHING WRONG WITH THE VEHICLE. . AFTER 2 MORE INCIDENTS I BROUGHT MY CAR TO A TOYOTA DEALERSHIP TO BE CHECKED. AFTER KEEPING MY CAR FOR 2 DAYS THEY FOUND NO UNINTENDED ACCELERATION PROBLEMS AND CONFIRMED THAT THE FACTORY MATS WERE INSTALLED PROPERLY. ON 12/28/09 I WAS DRIVING TO WORK ON A MAJOR HIGHWAY. THE CAR BEGAN TO ACCELERATE WITHOUT MY FOOT ON THE GAS PEDAL. AS I PUSHED ON THE BRAKE, THE CAR CONTINUED TO ACCELERATE. AT THAT TIME I WAS NOT ABLE TO STOP MY VEHICLE BY PRESSING HARD ON THE BRAKE. THE ONLY WAY I WAS ABLE TO SLOW THE CAR DOWN WAS TO PUT THE CAR INTO NEUTRAL. I TOOK THE NEXT EXIT WHICH WAS THE EXIT FOR THE TOYOTA DEALERSHIP. I CALLED THE DEALERSHIP AND TOLD THE SERVICE MANAGER TO MEET ME OUTSIDE BECAUSE I WAS EXPERIENCING ACCELERATION PROBLEMS. I DROVE APPROXIMATELY 5 MILES BY ALTERNATING FROM NEUTRAL TO DRIVE AND PRESSING VERY FIRMLY ON THE BRAKES. AS I PULLED INTO THE FRONT OF THE DEALERSHIP I PUT THE CAR INTO NEUTRAL AND EXITED THE CAR. WITH THE BRAKES SMOKING FROM THE EXCESSIVE BRAKING AND THE CAR'S RPM'S RACING THE MNGER ENTERED MY CAR. HE CONFIRMED THAT THE MATS WERE PROPERLY IN PLACE AND CONFIRMED THE RPM'S WERE VERY HIGH. THEY CONTACTED A TOYOTA TECH TO LOOK AT MY CAR, AFTER 1 1/2 WEEKS WITH MY CAR THEY WERE TOLD BY TOYOTA TO REPLACE THE THROTTLE BODY AND ACCELERATOR ASSEMBLY INCLUDING BOTH SENSORS. I NO LONGER FEEL SAFE DRIVING THIS CAR AND I AM NOT CONVINCED THAT TOYOTA HAS FOUND THE ROOT CAUSE OF THIS PROBLEM. *TR RECEIVED BILL INVOICE FROM CUSTOMER. UPDATED 01/26/10.*JB "
Toyota shouldn't play Russian roulette with the lives of its customers. They must find out the root cause of the unintended acceleration in it's DBW vehicles and fix them ASAP to keep its customers and other people on the road safe.
Safety Research & Strategies expert says "We clearly think that Toyota has a larger problem on their hands that involve electronics with their vehicles."
ABC News found reports of almost 2000 accidents and as many as 16 deaths possibly connected to the run away Toyotas.
Toyota service manager witness unwanted acceleration not related to floor mat entrapment. Toyota blames problem on sticky gas pedal but custom insist the gas pedal was never stuck.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/runaway-toyotas-problem-persists-recall/story?id=9- 618735
Mitch
One important caveat - keep it civil and avoid any name-calling or insults.
See you there!
Oh and does anyone have any help for Mitch? That would be super.
Thank you,
(Laughing WITH you....not at you!)
Mike
I wonder if this condition is a deteriorating one or it is just a quirk of the transmission or a computer problem ? :surprise:
Now that I am risking my life in a camry I am starting to pay attention to what it does and it does this about 3 times a week. I put about 350 mi/week. Wish me luck, I haven't killed anyone yet. Thanks :lemon:
Joe
My guess is that your son's LE may simply need new brake pads.
As the pads wear, the pistons in the brake cylinders at each wheel push out further to bring the pad material into contact with the disks when brakes are applied. The pads, over time, therefore stay further out in their travel which means more fluid has "moved down the line" from the main reservoir (master cylinder) to keep them in their new, "further out" positions.
Fluid from the master appears to have been "lost", when in fact it is just taking up the "slack" in the lines in order to maintain equilibrium.....and prevent air leaks.
You would find right now, that if you DID put in a new set of disk pads on all four wheels, that there is actually too MUCH fluid (since you topped it up)...and you would probably have to actually bleed some off, or "scoop" it out of the reservoir in order to keep it DOWN to the proper operating level.
(I just replaced my 07's pads and DIDN'T top up the fluid beforehand...knowing that it would come back up by itself once the new pads pushed the pistons back into the wheel cylinders. Fluie in the master cyl came back up just fine!)
A friend who's into disk brakes can help you out.
(Alternatively, post back here if you still have questions.)
Regards,
Mike
The Chinese man Koua Fong Lee was not so lucky. He was convicted of criminal vehicular homicide after his 1996 Toyota Camry raced up to 90mph on a freeway exit and then crashed into an Oldsmobile stopped at the red light, killing a St. Paul father and his 10-year-old son. His 7-year-old niece was left a quadriplegic and died a year and a half later. Mr. Lee is now serving a jail term of 8 years for a crime that he insists he did not commit.
"Koua Fong Lee testified at his trial in 2007 that he was returning home from a church event on the day of the accident. His pregnant wife, their 4-year-old daughter, his father and his brother were in the car with him.
He had no criminal history and had not been drinking or on drugs. He said he was not talking on a cell phone or distracted by anything else.
But as he pulled off the freeway, something suddenly went wrong.
"I stepped on my brakes. For some reason, the brakes did not work," he testified. "And then I was very afraid. I began to think that my family is all in this car and I was worried I was going to crash into the other vehicles."
http://www.twincities.com/news/ci_14376176?source=rss&nclick_check=1
Both the prosecutors and Mr. Lee's trial attorney blamed Mr. Lee for stepping on the accelerator rather than the brake in spite of the fact that there were numerous complaints of unintended acceleration involving 1996 Toyota Camry on the NHTSA website- a fact which indicates Mr. Lee could be telling the truth but he was unable to escape becoming a scapegoat for Toyota which was able to cover up the huge number of reports of unintended acceleration of its vehicles until the much publicized case of the death of a police officer and his family in a run away Lexus led ABC News to expose Toyota's cover-up.
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/complaints/index.cfm
Read Get Summary on complaints about Vehicle Speed Control.
ABC News reported that Kevin Haggerty, a 45-year-old salesman from Pittstown, New Jersey also experienced unintended acceleration in his 2007 Toyota Avalon.
"I had my foot on the brake," recalled Haggerty. The more he pressed the brake, the more the car accelerated. "It seemed like the accelerator was overpowering the brake."
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/toyota-driver-abc-news-videos-helped-save-life/sto- ry?id=9618954
Toyota still blames accidents involving deaths on drivers stepping on the accelerator rather than the brake in spite of numerous complaints of unintended acceleration involving Toyota vehicles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYWqqgr7Wcg
Not only that many people are dead because of run away Toyotas, now a man who maintains his innocence with proof to support his testimony from recent findings on Toyota's unintended acceleration is being locked up for 8 years behind bars.
SHAME ON TOYOTA for allowing such tragedies to happen
Is this a common problem
Any comments r4egarding approaching the dealer or Toyota?
What is the source of the problem?
How can I resolve the problem?
What needs to be done? Do I have to rebuild the engine?
Somewhat suggested the rings are stuck and I can I try an additive which may loosen the rings.
I have checked the [CV Valve and it is OK.
Thanks, for your comments. WPG1
Magic mystery additives won't free stuck rings, and I doubt this is the problem anyway.
There's a discussion about the plight of toyota here
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.efda853/5408#MSG5408
And this one
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f1fa877/1225#MSG1225
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Please if you people can help in arranging for a new gear box .
But finding out the problem should not be the sole objective of bringing the vehicle in.
This is what I suggest you should do:
1/ Establish documentary records with the Toyota service department. The service document you possess should have statements indicating that you had brought the car in because of occasional unintended acceleration or engine flare. It is the most important step to protect yourself against being falsely accused of stepping on the accelerator by mistake in case an accident happens because of unintended acceleration. Keep the original documents at home, not in the car, and let family members know where you keep the documents.
2/ If Toyota can not find out and fix the problem of occasional unintended acceleration in your car and you had no choice but to drive it, you must learn and practice in a safe location on how to stop your vehicle safely if serious unintended acceleration occurs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT07_JbnKWQ
3/ If you experience minor unintended acceleration or engine flare, post a complaint on Edmunds.com and state that you had brought the car in but Toyota could not find out the problem. If you experience a serious unintended acceleration or flare, complain to the NHTSA.
4/ If you have an adult passenger in your car when the unintended acceleration or engine flare happens, have the passenger sign a written note about the incident as a witness and put the phone number of the passenger on the note too.
5/ Check out the complaint section on the NHTSA website to see if any owners of the same model and year complained about the Vehicle Speed Control. If many owners of the same model and year complained about the same or similar problem, contact NHTSA to demand action to be taken to force Toyota to deal with the problem seriously.
Is your Toyota in the recall lists? What model and year is your car?
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/complaints/index.cfm
Year [Speed Control] [Pedal] [Cruise Control] [Cable or Linkage] = Speed Control Related Complaints
1990 7+8+0+1=16
1991 5+1+0+0=6
1992 7+4+2+2=15
1993 12+4+0+1=17
1994 11+2+2+2=17
1995 8+1+4+1=14
1996 18+2+11+1=32
1997 13+2+1+2=18
1998 32+12+4+7=55
1999 31+8+1+2=42
2000 39+11+2+3=55
2001 16+4+0+1=21
2002 135+20+4+5=164
2003 121+19+3+0=143
2004 79+18+2+1=100
2005 75+9+3+0=87
2006 39+1+0+0=40
2007 143+24+15+0=173
2008 28+1+1+0=30
2009 56+5+0+0=61
From the above data, we can see that :
1/ The number of complaints related to Vehicle Speed Control for each model year suddenly jumped from the average of about 26 complaints for each model year to 164 complaints for the 2002 model. It is a more than six folds increase that begs for explanation.
It turned out that 2002 was the year when Toyota first introduced the Drive by Wire system for controlling the throttle electronically with computer programming. Obviously, Toyota’s DBW system was not tested thorough enough to match the reliability of the cable controlled throttle system before being introduced into Toyota Camry in 2002.
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/homepage/83523027.html
2/ For the models from 2003 to 2006, the number of complaints decreased gradually from triple digits back to the double digit of 40 only. However, the number of complaints related to speed control suddenly jumped to an all time high of 173 cases for the 2007 Camry. The figures dropped to double digits again in 2008 and 2009. Therefore, if you own a 2007 Camry, there is a higher probability of your car having Vehicle Speed Control problems.
I can not find the reason for the sudden jump of the number of complaints related to speed control for the 2007 Camry but I believe the Toyota manufacturer should have some clues about it as they know what changes, including hardware and software, have been made to the DBW system in the 2007 Camry in comparison to the 2006 Camry.
That would have probably resulted in numerous consumer complaints along the lines of "my car doesn't always respond to the gas pedal input".
Interesting also is that I believe 2007 was the year the change was made to the firmware in order to reduce these incidents of 1-2 second downshift delay/hesitation.
I believe that could be true but I am sure that an overwhelming majority of the complaints related to Vehicle Speed Control in the 2002 Camry had nothing to do with that intentional delay of the rising of engine torque.
I have so far read 22 of the 164 complaints about Vehicle Speed Control for the 202 Camry, only 1 complaint was about acceleration hesitation, the other 21 cases were about unintended acceleration or engine flare.
The truth is only an insignificant number of those 2002 speed control complaints are related to the 1-2 second downshift delay/hesitation but a great majority of the complaints are related to unintended acceleration which are likely due to electronic or software problem yet to be identified.
It does not mean that acceleration hesitation is not a problem in 2002 Camrys. I think people are more likely to report to the NHTSA about unintended acceleration than acceleration hesitation because unintended acceleration is more likely to cause accidents and worries than acceleration hesitation.
I had a 2007 Camry 4cyl which had occasional acceleration hesitation but I did not report it to the NHTSA because it was much less likely than unintended acceleration to cause an accident.
I think if Toyota had change the computer programming to reduce hesitation in 2007 Camrys, they probably did it to the 6 cyl Camrys but not the 4 cyl ones. As far as I can remember, all the complaints I read about unintended acceleration of 2007 Camrys had 6 cylinders.
The computer programming in today’s firmware in vehicles has become so complicated, I would not be surprised that both Toyota and the NHTSA are still clueless about what really goes wrong in Toyota's DBW system.
If you did, that means you were extremely happy with a Camry having a potentially dangerous gas pedal. Ignorance is not bliss, at least not for those owners who got into an accident because the gas pedal stuck.
If you did not, then you should even when you are extremely happy with the performance of your 2007 Camry after TSB.
Who informed you about the TSB for reprogramming the computer? Why did some customers complain about Toyota not acknowledging there was a TSB for fixing the computer glitch that caused unintended acceleration?
Is the latest sticky pedal recall for 2007 Camry just an excuse for Toyota to secretly reload the computers without confessing that it did not properly inform all affected Toyota owners about the TSB for fixing the computer glitch that may have cause the unintended acceleration in a number of fatal accidents and huge number of non-fatal accidents?
The earlier TSB you referenced was not a mandatory fix. I'm an engineer and strive for perfection, and I didn't like the way it was shifting. I suspect the reason of the issue is that they were trying to keep/lock it in high gear to eek out a extra couple tenths of mpg. I'd rather have the better 'performance'. My wife or daughter didn't notice or care. My brother who has same vehicle, didn't notice or care, or even have the TSB performed.
These are complex control systems in all of the newer vehicles. Everything is computer controlled now, and unless one has knowledge and exposure to building these types of controls..... I don't think the average person understands or cares. When I was a kid and started driving, we would have to do a tuneup every 15-20K miles (points, plugs, condensor). Clutches would last maybe 30K miles, and you'd crank your own window. Today, we all expect vehicles to be error free for 150K miles, and even the dome light is computer controlled.
Any manufacturer could have problems. My 2004 Ford Explorer actually DID have an accelerator pedal problem, loosing it's signal and outside of tolerance, and the vehicle limped home. The fix ??? .... a new gas pedal.
My Chevy, has of course had the fix for the windshield fluid heater, to avoid the unintended fires that have happened if that heater shorted.
My Harley has had a steering bearing problem.
The point, I've not had one vehicle in the last 15 years that has not had something potentially seriously wrong with it. But I'll tell you, they run better than both our clothes washer and dish washer under multiple daily usage conditions. .
I am actually intending to buy a 2nd Camry shortly, and the stock is a great investment opportunity (just bought some yesterday).....as the press continues to hammer Toyota. In my opinion, no need to get all emotional about this.
Are you an engineer related to Toyota in anyway?
Not necessarily working for Toyota, but a Toyota stock holder, perhaps, based on your recommendation of buying Toyota stocks. You call Toyota stock "a great investment" even though Toyota is being besieged by several lawsuits, including class action lawsuits, related to accidents cased by unintended acceleration! Amazing!
You say the TSB that could solve the problem relating to unintended acceleration was NOT a not a mandatory fix!!! That's why so many 2007 Camry owners got into accidents because of unintended acceleration and why the 2007 Camry was the most complained related to Vehicle Speed Control in the NHTSA website.
Your nonchalant attitude towards the gas pedal recall in spite of you being an engineer gives more weight to the suspicion that the latest Toyota gas pedal recall is just a smoke screen for fixing computer glitch that may cause unintended acceleration in Toyotas.
Yes, I am now a Toyota stockholder (as of last week). I bought Ford and Chevy stocks when they were beat down and sold them when they raised back up, bought a number of tech and banking stocks when they were beat down, and pharmaceuticals when they were beat down years ago. For a patient investor, these overreactions by the marketplace create some good contraian investment opportunities for quality companies. Three years from now, some other manufacturer will have negative marketplace news, and Toyota will be back up.
Buy low, sell high.
You say the TSB that could solve the problem relating to unintended acceleration was NOT a not a mandatory fix!!! That's why so many 2007 Camry owners got into accidents because of unintended acceleration and why the 2007 Camry was the most complained related to Vehicle Speed Control in the NHTSA website. Too bad you have no idea what you are talking about. Why don't you get a copy of the TSB or do some technical research before you rant and rave on a topic, making assertions that have no factual basis.
If you don't like the way Toyota is handling this, don't buy their vehicles, and hire a lawyer to litigate your case. You can protest with your pocketbook.
Not necessarily working for Toyota, but a Toyota stock holder, perhaps".
It proves that my hunch of you being a Toyota stock holder is correct.
You being a Toyota stock holder is considered by me to be related to Toyota in business, so don’t tell me the lie that you are not related to Toyota in any way, form, or fashion.
Buy low, sell high. Exactly. Wonder how low Toyota stock will go when Toyota is found guilty of being responsible for the death of people killed in accidents involving run away Toyotas.
Of course I had a good idea of what I talked about when I said the high rate of accidents in 2007 Camry related to unintended acceleration and 2007 Camry being the most complained related to speed control can be attributed to the TSB not being a mandatory fix.
Since many 2007 Camry owners were not informed about the TSB and many 2007 Camry owners got into accident the first time they experience unintended acceleration, it is irresponsible for Toyota not to make the TSB for fixing the computer software a mandatory one. You say you have been "extremely happy post TSB", so why you think the other 2007 Camry owners should be deprived of their opportunity to be "extremely happy post TSB"? How can you be so selfish?
You may try to defend Toyota’s wrong-doings in order to protect your investment in Toyota stock. I don't care how much qualification you have as an engineer, when there is an obvious conflict of interest, your opinion is no more trustworthy than the opinions of Toyota owners who had experienced the problems.
So sue me if you have the money- Is that what you think Toyota should be telling it's customers?
Is that how you think Toyota should be treating surviving victims and families of people killed in run away Toyotas?
Is that how you think Toyota should be telling an innocent man being locked up to serve 8 years in jail when the prosecutor blamed him for mistakenly stepping on the gas pedal to accelerate a Camry up to 90 mph on the freeway OFFRAMP before hitting a car stopping at a red light causing the death of 3 people while covering up the fact that there are many complaints of unintended acceleration on the same model year on the NHTSA website?
You should remember that the president of Toyota Motor Corp. apologized for safety problems that have led to massive worldwide recalls of its vehicles, he did not say- 'If you don't like the way Toyota is handling this, don't buy our vehicles, and hire a lawyer to litigate your case. You can protest with your pocketbook'.
I can tell you that at least with MY car, I have had ZERO issues and it now has 50,000 miles.
1.) First, a contrarian investor, invests in companies that are beat down and having problems in the marketplace. The public tends to overreact, selling their stock positions, and the stock price drops lower than the fundamentals would indicate that it should be. If one then buys these stock opportunities, as a good company works their way out of the these problems, the stock eventually rises back to normal valuations, and one can make money off of other investors who dumped the stock unnecessarily in the first place. So my buying stock in this company is a pure financial play against those investors who are selling the stock. If you consider that related to Toyota in business, okay, that's your opinion.
AP article
2.) Secondly, you may be 'related to Toyota in business', and not even realize it. If you have any mutual fund investments, those mutual funds could have Toyota stock in their portfolio. If you work for a company with a 401K, or if you have a pension plan, then those could very well have Toyota in their stock porfolio. If you work for a company that makes a product or perform some service, Toyota may be a customer of yours.
3.) Thirdly, I'll help you here on the TSB. The TSB was a performance enhancement, and adjusted the engines fuel mixture power output, and the transmission shift points in the computer. It better matched the engine and transmission shift points, so (for example) that while cruising at highway speeds the vehicle could better maintain a constant vehicle speed without having to downshift from 5th gear with torque converter lock up, down to third. I have no idea how or why you would want to try and link that to any accelerator pedal or un-intended acceleration issues. It's apples and oranges.
Perhaps an analogy might help. Let's say your kitchen sink waterflow is slow and you really like a lot of water flow to fill the pots up quickly. You call the plumber, who comes out and puts in a 3/8" feed/riser pipe, as opposed to the 1/4" that was there. You're now happy, but a week later notice you are having slow septic problems. You call the plumber back and complain that he messed up your septic system. Well they are both plumbing problems you reason, but unfortunately totally unrelated.
The TSB is like the waterfill pipe. The original was fine for many/most families. For those that experience and report it to a delaer, they will get the TSB. If I don't use the cruise control or care how fast a pot fills, nobody is going to mess with my plumbing. A slow septic on the other hand is more critical, like unintended acceleration, and gets a recall.
Enjoy your ride.
Statistics speaks fairer than the testimony of just a few individuals regardless of their motives.
Year [Speed Control] [Pedal] [Cruise Control] [Cable or Linkage] = Speed Control Related Complaints
1990 7+8+0+1=16
1991 5+1+0+0=6
1992 7+4+2+2=15
1993 12+4+0+1=17
1994 11+2+2+2=17
1995 8+1+4+1=14
1996 18+2+11+1=32
1997 13+2+1+2=18
1998 32+12+4+7=55
1999 31+8+1+2=42
2000 39+11+2+3=55
2001 16+4+0+1=21
2002 135+20+4+5=164
2003 121+19+3+0=143
2004 79+18+2+1=100
2005 75+9+3+0=87
2006 39+1+0+0=40
2007 143+24+15+0=173
2008 28+1+1+0=30
2009 56+5+0+0=61
If I were you, I would be practicing how to stop the 2007 Camry safely by shifting to neutral just in case the apparently normal 2007 Camry suddenly accelerates up to 100 mph like the Lexus under the professional care of a rental car company before being rented to the hapless CHP officer.
If you're very old (i.e. over 40) you know that this is virtually unheard of in the industry. (If you're UNDER forty....just ask around!)
Big car manufacturers would almost rather go bankrupt than "replace" a car. (That's how/why 'lemon laws' got started in the first place: car companies NEVER took back bad cars......they just fixed 'em and fixed 'em and fixed 'em...even though they never did get FIXED!)
Take it, buddy!
If Toyota stock goes down further because Toyota loses in the lawsuits involving unintended acceleration, a Toyota investor would not be happy about it.
If Toyota stock goes up because Toyota with it’s huge financial resources is able to win the lawsuits by convincing the judges to issue judgments that blame the Toyota owners for stepping on the gas pedal by mistake just because Toyota says so, a Toyota investor with a conscience would not be happen either because the hapless Toyota customers and their families are victimized yet again.
Of course, there are investors who would care less if the hapless Toyota owners are blamed unjustifiably for causing fatal accidents by stepping on the gas pedal instead of the brake or even put in jail as a scapegoat for Toyota, as long as the Toyota stock goes up again.
So until Toyota stock goes further down after being sentenced to compensate the victims or victims’ families and Toyota starts to learn from its mistakes, I would not say that Toyota stock is a good investment for investors.
I was talking about people who buy Toyota stock lately as an individual investor with the hope that Toyota will win the lawsuits related to unintended acceleration. I was not talking about group investment like 401K. Nice try using deceptive argument.
I was talking about the large number of complaints about vehicle speed control on 2007 Camry, an overwhelming majority of which were related to unintended acceleration. You were the one who answered my post #5016 about the blip in 2007 Camry in your post #5019 and mentioned that the problem was fixed with a TSB. So you, not me, were the one who tried to confuse the issue of unintended acceleration with the issue of acceleration hesitation.
I’m enjoying my ride alright. But thankfully it’s not a Toyota.
I wish Toyota would not make it a standard practice to blame their hapless customers in fatal accidents for stepping on the gas pedal by mistake and would deal with all possible causes of unintended acceleration in their vehicles seriously even if it would mean having to expose more defects of their DBW system and that Toyota stock will go further down before come back up.
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/complaints/
In my previous posts, I suggested people to choose options relating to Vehicle Speed Control when checking out complaints. However, I just found out that the complainants may complain about unintended acceleration under electrical system, power train, fuel system, gasoline, unknown or other as well as vehicle speed control. Therefore, I suggest you NOT to select any specific component so that you can read all complaints related to unintended acceleration as well as other problems related to the 2010 Camry.
Click on Get Summary to read the complaints.
I had a 2007 Camry with acceleration hesitation like yours. I traded it in after owning it for a very short time and I’m glad that I decided not to buy another Toyota ever again.
It was a pain in the neck to deal with acceleration hesitation of the 2007 Camry 4cyl when merging onto the freeway. However, I consider the unintended acceleration as reported by many 2010 Camry owners posts much greater danger to the life of the driver as well as other people on the road.
Hope you will make the right decision.
20 Camry owners are willing to provide their Vehicle Identification Numbers (VIN) for the complaint.
A large numbers of the complaints have something to do with unintended acceleration.
If the 2010 Camry owners experience only minor problems without causing accidents, I don’t think they would reveal their Vehicle Identification Number and then lie or exaggerate on the internet that there is something seriously wrong with their 2010 Camry. To do so would mean depreciation in the resale value of their 2010 Camrys.
I have no doubt that those 2010 Camry owners who provide the VINs have experience serious problem(s) that prompt them to make the complaints.
On the other hand, I am very skeptical of Toyota’s claim that ONLY floor mat entrapment and stuck gas pedal are to blame for the huge numbers of complaints of unintended acceleration. I also despise Toyota for blaming some vulnerable Toyota owners for stepping on the wrong pedal and speeding the vehicle to 90 mph or more on the highway before crashing in spite of the fact that it is very unlikely for drivers to step on the wrong pedal while cruising on the highway as compared to starting or parking a vehicle in the parking lot. It is even far more unlikely for drivers driving on the highway to keep on stepping on the gas pedal by mistake long enough to speed the vehicle up to 90 mph or more without realizing his or her foot is on the wrong pedal while trying to slow down or stop the vehicle.
For comparison, there are only 3 complaints against the 2010 Accord by two people in the NHTSA website. One provides the VIN. The other did not. None of the complaints has to do with unintended acceleration.
The profiles of Toyota owners are not much different from that of Honda owners. There is no reason at all to support the crazy idea that only 2010 Toyota Camry owners would be prone to mistake the gas for the brake while the Honda Accord owners would not. There is also no reason at all to support the crazy idea that only 2010 Toyota Camry owners would like to bad-mouth and depreciate the value of their new cars while the Honda Accord owners would not.
OK, if you are still not convinced that there is something wrong with the 2010 Camry, then may be a recall of the 2010 Camry would.
It’s no joke. Toyota has issued a recall of 7,300 of its 2010 Camry on Feb 9, 2010.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/10/business/main6192754.shtml
It’s no joke. Toyota has issued a recall of 7,300 of its 2010 Camry on Feb 9, 2010.
Funny, but this cited recall has nothing to do with sudden acceleration and amounts to maybe a week's worth of production!
And I don't think there's anything seriously wrong with the '10 Camry other than the ongoing efforts regarding the floor mats and the "sticky" gas pedal. Sean Kane claims my 2004 and 2005 Camrys are prone to accelerating wildly out of control also because of the electronics/software.
I'm hardly cringing in fear. The cars have a total of nearly 115K miles between them and I've never experienced the slightest "blip" in the throttle mechanisms. So call me skeptical.
I'm sure there will be a ton of complaints about future Camrys now that the cat is out of the bag, so to speak. Every incident will be blamed on sudden acceleration.
If you did, that means you (should not have been) extremely happy with a Camry having a potentially dangerous gas pedal. Ignorance is not bliss, at least not for those owners who got into an accident because the gas pedal stuck.
If you did not, then you should even when you are extremely happy with the performance of your 2007 Camry after TSB.
Please read the following complaint (ODI #10293611) taken from the NHTSA website:
11/24/09 I WAS DRIVING MY 2010 CAMRY IN A PARKING LOT. MY CHILDREN WERE IN THE BACK SEAT. I WAS TRAVELING 10 MPH. MY RIGHT FOOT WAS NOT ON THE GAS, NOR THE BRAKE, THE TORQUE OF THE ENGINE WAS SUFFICIENT FOR MOVING US ALONG WHILE LOOKING FOR A PARKING SPACE. MY RIGHT FOOT WAS ABOVE THE BRAKE AS I WAS SLOWLY LOOKING FOR A PARKING SPOT. SUDDENLY, I HEARD A VERY LOUD VVRROOOMMMM AND THE CAR SPONTANEOUSLY ACCELERATED AND LUNGED FORWARD APPROXIMATELY 20 FEET. THANKFULLY, I WAS ABLE TO BRAKE QUICKLY AND STOPPED THE CAR. I THEN TOOK IT TO THE DEALERSHIP. CONICELLI RAN A DIAGNOSTIC ON MY CAR. LATER THAT DAY WHEN I PICKED UP THE CAR, THEY SAID THEY FOUND NOTHING. WHEN I ASKED THEM WHERE THE "SPONTANEOUS ACCELERATION" (A PROBLEM TOYOTA EARLIER IN THE DAY TOLD ME THEY WERE HAVING) WOULD HAVE APPEARED ON THE DIAGNOSTIC, THEY WERE AT A LOSS. LET ME BE VERY CLEAR THAT THERE WAS NOT A FLOOR MAT IN THE DRIVER'S SIDE. I DO NOT BELIEVE THE "SPONTANEOUS ACCELERATION" WAS CAUSED BY THE "MAT ISSUE." I KNOW MY EXPERIENCE WAS REAL AND NOT CAUSED BY DRIVER ERROR. I FEEL THE PROBLEM IS ELSEWHERE AND EXACERBATED FOR SOME DRIVERS BECAUSE THEY HAD THE FLOOR MATS IN PLACE. PLEASE PRESS TOYOTA TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS ISSUE. I NO LONGER FEEL SAFE IN MY 2010 TOYOTA CAMRY THAT I BOUGHT FOR SAFETY REASONS IN THE FIRST PLACE. *TR THANK YOU.
(Bold type mine.)
Note that there was no floor mat on the 2010 Carmy and the driver's foot was above the brake when the "spontaneous acceleration" happened, so floor mat entrapment and sticky pedal cannot explain the dangerous anomaly.
Your blind faith that there's nothing seriously wrong with the '10 Camry other than the ongoing efforts regarding the floor mats and the "sticky" gas pedal" is not shared by me, nor by the 2010 Camry owner who experienced the "spontaneous acceleration", nor by the independent safety expert, Sean Kane.
With Toyota insisting only floor mat entrapment and sticky gas pedal to blame and your staunch support for Toyota, I wonder why you did not come to the conclusion that after all floor mats and gas pedals have been fixed in the recalled Toyotas, every sudden acceleration incident in those vehicles will be blamed on the driver stepping on the wrong pedal. That should be a more probable scenario than every incident will be blamed on sudden acceleration by Toyota owners.