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Comments
Spider got into the 220V contactor in our outside condensing unit (a home A/C unit). Caused a short, and fried the contactor. OAT was 95 F. and RH 90% at the time--not a good time for an A/C failure!!
Bugs (the insect kind, that is) can and do a lot more damage than you give them credit for, sir.
You can contribute it, and all the other "woes" you talk about to another subversive Toyota plot as much as you wish, but in this case you're dead wrong.
The only "error" in this instance could be not describing the problem as "a blocked condensate drain line". That said, most people probably wouldn't understand what the tech was talking about. As well, why didn't this owner ask for more info if he/she was doubtful about the explanation given? Why wait until a computer was available to gripe about it in a cartalk forum??
i apologize if my response seemed critical or that i was seemingly trying to correct anyone.
btw: my son informs me spiders are not insects.
otherwise, the root cause could be a clogged sunroof drain, window or door seal, etc. so, if the pan drain has been serviced, and the floor gets wet again... there's something else to look at.
i'm not a paranoid / conspiracy theorist-bent engineer, but i do try to understand enough about my vehicle to make an assessment of whether a service manager or tech is dealing straight with me or not (specially when I have to pay for the repair).
but, even if I don't have to pay, since my wife couldn't care less, it's my responsibility to have knowlege of what's been done to the car and what might be a problem later.
i don't need to be an expert in all things, just better informed of what's really going on.
we've all heard "tall tales" from owners where what was said by the service rep couldn't possibly be true.
Arachnids, not insects. Insects have six legs. Arachnids have eight. Be real nice to the kid. He's so smart he'll probably eventually be filthy rich. It'd be nice to be on his good side.
Just because Toyota did something for another customer, they should not be obligated to do it for you. They made a choice in that situation. They are now at liberty to make a different choice in another situation. Agreed, they may not be making the right choice, but it should NOT be tied to what they did for others.
Would you feel better if they went back to those "other folks" and changed the deal so it matched yours?
What Toyota did with them has little to do with you.
Still, YOU have the choice to not do business with them, though it is sad to see the basis for the decision on Toyota not treating you the same as some other guy. Still, you can make your own choice.
I should have known it was easier to crawl into a drain tube only 3/8 of an inch in diameter with at least 8 legs.
Keeping up at 70 mph? That's also a new one. Both the 4c and the V6 are plenty powerful enough ( over-powered for many users ) at cruising speed so a little more explanation might be in order here also.
I did 150 highway miles this afternoon at 75-77 mph with A/C on. 95% of the time in 5th gear but shifted down to 4th going up hills. 73 degrees outside. With 2 adults and golf clubs, 32.1 mpg indicated on the trip.
I've just recently started putting some serious highway miles on the car every weekend, and have experienced this issue of significant shifting between 5,4,3rd......even on relatively flat rolling interstates.
At first I thought the car was either underpowered (and/or overgeared) and didn't have enough HP (at the wheels) to overcome the 70mph wind resistance with the relatively slow RPM. But then I drove without the cruise, and if I drive gingerly on the accelerator, it will pretty much stay in 5th gear.....varying a couple mph. That leads me to suspect that the problem is that the cruise control is just too demanding for the available 4cyl HP. If it senses the speed is slowing, it applies continual additional throttle to catch up......forcing the car to downshift because of the throttle position. This keeps the car right at the speed selected, but at the cost of significant transmission shifting.
I did a short stint(not enough to be conclusive)cruising at 80mph, which obviously had a higher engine RPM, and it had less shifting. My guess is it's higher up the power/torque curve and the engine could deliver the needed power at the wheels.
I haven't tried cruising at 55 yet, it could be better because of less wind resistance, but could also be worse because of slower yet RPM (lower torque).
Also wanted to test it without the a/c on, to see how much of a difference that would make.
Still, YOU have the choice to not do business with them, though it is sad to see the basis for the decision on Toyota not treating you the same as some other guy. Still, you can make your own choice.
you realize, they made their choice, entered into a contract with a company by doing business with them, and now have a defective product to show for it.
by choice you mean they can sell their brand new vehicle at a loss and move on?
it would seem doubtful that your speed or the number of passengers in the vehicle should result in torque convertor lockup/unlock and shifting on flat-level roadways, be it at 55, 70 or 80.
that is a very odd observation.
while a manufacturer or service rep may claim situational hesitation and RPM flairing during up-shift is "normal" or by design (?), cruise control with erratic shifting is a very overt problem.
get the service manager in the car and take him/her on the highway for a good "cruise".
I was bringing my car in for the manual computer/pressure test on the transmission, which by the way was done....the car was adjusted, cleared and reprogrammed. (Reprogrammed for the second time I might add) The car worked wonderfully for about 30 minutes, then back to the same, slipping...spiking, whatever.
I brought the car back the next morning. Apparently Toyota told my dealership they had several tests they needed them to conduct which would take 4 days, but told my dealership they would not pay for me a rental, nice customer service, huh?) Anyway, the dealership paid for the rental, and ended up with the car for a week and a half. They ended up replacing the valve body. I picked it up yesterday, and as soon as I was pulling out of the parking lot, same thing - slipping/spiking...whatever. I called the dealership, they are going to call Toyota.
I'm about as stressed out as a person can get, and I've had just about enough, so I will be sending all of my paperwork to the Texas Motor Vehicle Division this week to file a Lemon Law Complaint.
To those of you who haven't had any problems, I envy you. I love this car (except for the defect it has of course), and actually since it's loaded out, it's the nicest car I've ever owned, but I've had about all I can take. The dealership has had this car in their service department for almost the same amount of time I've owned it, which for anything you purchase is ridiculous.
:lemon:
Historically, Toyota has always backed up their products very well. What I find interesting on this board is the apparent "head in the sand" attitude of salespersons and dealers. Saying it's "normal operation" just doesn't cut it for someone who just spent $20K+ on a vehicle, as there are other vehicles out there for equal to or less money that don't exhibit such behavior.
Adaptive automatic transmissions with fuzzy logic have been in use for over a decade without any major issues. Why Toyota is having this problem is a mystery, especially given their engineering expertise.
On steeper grades, I will just cancel the cruise, because I can do a better job with my right foot to keep the tranny in a higher gear. Of course, I let my speed drop by 1-3 mph in the process, with the goal of maximizing fuel economy by minimizing downshifting.
Why would Toyota want the trans to do this? How about that holy grail called the EPA ratings! It may be that simple - if Toyota wants to manufacture cars with class leading FE (which it does) then let's also keep gear selections as high as possible.
The fix (and it is not really a fix) has been to change they way I drive slightly - keeping a nice even (but lighter) pressure with the ball of my foot on the throttle, the downshift then happens almost imperceptably, and after it does - it's 'Katy bar the door' and I can enjoy the wonderful power that the car has. Shifting the car manually will also, of course, work to avoid the gear hunts but certainly defeats the purpose of the AT in the first place.
A neighbor just took delivery of a V6 XLE, and was not a happy camper. Drove with his toes on the accelerator and very much all-on and all-off style. Exactly what the tranny control programs have difficulty in handling. It was miserable for him- I took him out for a 'driving lesson' and while it took some adjustment on his part, he is now properly in love with what really is a wonderful car.
Now we can get into a whole philosophical discussion of why we have to have computers in cars and why we must adjust to them as opposed to the other way around - or we can learn to live with it. I get 27 mpg overall on my 'sleeper' Avalon and would not be willing to sacrifice any of that economy or power that would, in many aspects, not be possible without those silly computers!
You can say it but it is not fact.
Third gear is not direct drive!!! It is a 1.413 gear ratio.
Fourth gear is just a slight OD ratio - .975
The 5 speed manual has similar ratios.
The Power Split Device ( PSD ) in the hybrids doesn't have any of these problems at all. It too is computer controlled and only 3 yrs old. What if any limitations are there that you know of in using the PSD in all autos whether hybrid or not?
You can reply in the Camry 2007 forum if you think this is too far OT.
http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2006/07/next_toyota_cor.html
I think it's human for most folks to look immediately for the simplest answers to all problems--in the case of the perceived transmission "problem", it's got to be "the car" before any other possibility is considered.(case in point, the spider/condensate line thing--one complaint and it's quickly deemed by some to be a design flaw!)
We have three vehicles in our family. One is a 06 Silverado--the most recent of 8 in an every two year Slverado purchase cycle--always the same model and same engine and eqipment, so any differences in every two years is readily noticeable to the driver.
This one is different. Better gas mileage than previous several years-a 5.3L.-V8 every year. It shifts different at certain throttle levels--harsh if applied firmly, gentle if applied gently. Never did that on the previous 7 Silverados. The mileage we are getting with the tweaked engine and transmission is much better than ever before--averaging 26 and 28 mpg--a really good result from a fairly big V8 engine which didn't give more than 20 or 22 previously.
Our 05Avalon is also different than the previous one--a 2000. It shifts more often, and shifts more noticeably with occasional spiking of about 1500 rpm, but mileage is significantly better also. Once one learns to expect certain results, one compensates and any differences soon become inoccuous.
So I guess my point is tthat they may feel different, but that's not so bad when you consider the result--better mileage. Sure, there's some familiarization and change in how throttle application works, but once it's overcome, so far so good.
BTW, the third vehicle is a 98 Corolla with over 220,000 miles. It's on the third kid now, and is still thumping along quite handily.
I think your analogy is way off. Please show how you arrived at the conclusion re any lapse in engineering quality. Some recent articles by SAE might challenge that statement!! (Your Avalon experience, as difficult as it might have been, really can't qualify as irrefutable proof, BTW!)
I don't believe the Camry was "rushed to market a year earlier..."
Last gen. camry started in 2002...
02, 03, 04, 05, 06 Five model years.
i nor no one else called the design of the evaporator pan drain line a design flaw. the point was the improbability of a spider causing a new vehicle to have a clogged drain and lots of water on the front footwell.
more likely, it was a hose kink (happens a lot), or a hose that was not connected properly and slipped off, or didn't exit the firewall properly. did you notice we were concentrating on the "story" side of it, not the fact that a spider isn't capable of climbing up a hose and spinning its web, in a brand new vehicle, tightly to the point that the hydro-static pressure of the water in the evap pan couldn't overcome it.
geesh.
the hesitation and rpm flairing doesn't happen to everyone. is it the car, driver or both?
point is, toyota (nor any other manufacturer - i personally don't want to single out toyota... i don't want others to claim i'm responsible for hysteria, alterior motives or agendas, conspiracy theories or poor engineering logic) should be introducing design artifacts that conflict with basic human factors principles and cause and effect learning which has been acquired by the human brain since pre-birth.
there's good reasons why people who have this "problem" report it as a safety concern to them.
toyota is aware of this, but the newer models have not fixed it.
engineering shortage or not, maybe they should wait on the corolla re-design till they have the drivetrain issues worked out. that is a sincere statement.
the corrolla is a bread-and-butter product for them.
[[my '95 corrolla was virtually flawless and served me and my family economically and reliably for 8yrs with minimal amount of problems (just 2 alternators)]].
kbondar- I didn't exactly say that - rather that particular driving styles would aggravate the problem - not cause it. Toyota has acknowledged a 'software issue' issue with the 5 speeds, and as it appears from some user comments here and elsewhere - the problem may also be there on the 6 speed. And the fact is, that there are some mfgrs. out there (including Toyota's two biggest competitors that deal with these new electronic trannys in a more seamless manner - albeit at the expense of a mpg or two or three. The main point of the post, I guess - the transmissions are working as Toyota has designed them to work for reasons, I think are related to FE - and things like this will be more and more common as this technology continues to 'invade' our cars.
Please find the appropriate discussions for your issues. If you need help finding one, just drop me an email - I'll be glad to help.
kbondar,
While strange, or unexpected, transmission behavior is most likely related to software control of the transmission for FE reasons, that could not possibly explain the 3rd to 4th RPM spiking issues seen by several of us 2007 V6 Camry owners. The engine racing up 500 to 2500 RPMs between (only those two) gears then dropping back down with a steady accelerator pedal cannot improve fuel economy.
in the other models, the hesitation seems to be linked to the design of the accelerator pedal assembly since placing more of the foot on the pedal increases responsiveness, there's probably compliance and even possibly a dead-spot on the low end of the sensor where the direction and amount of force applied to the mechanicals inpacts the signal sent to the ECU.
as for the spiking, perhaps (again) the sensor (accelerator or throttle position) has a non-linearity in mid travel...
perhaps the throttle controlled by a motor or servo (i admit to not knowing) has a motor / servo issue.
maybe the problem with the spiking comes down not to firmware or driver style or new transmission configuration but to production quality issues associated with a bad sensor, motor/servo or mechanical coupling issues in the throttle body or accelerator pedal.
I also leave my windows slightly open to help air circulation, but for some reason my car gets extremely hot within a couple of hours in the sun. I have checked to see if the seat heater button was not depressed by mistake. It was not.
Have other XLE owners experienced this?
Thanks,
Jerry
Unfortunately, auto makers know that most people choose looks over functionality when making their buying decisions. So that's how they design cars these days.
Other than using more effective sun-shades, or darker window tint, you've few options to overcome a design guaranteed to concentrate the sun's rays on interior of your car.
Hope this answers your question.
On hot seats in the XLE V6.
I haven't noticed excessive heat gain in my XLE
1. One other person noted that there is more glass exposed due to the aerodynamics.
2. The sunscreen in the back isn't going to prevent much solar gain over a few hours parked in the sun.
3. If you have a dark colored car (mine is magnetic gray (dark) with light gray interior) you are going to get somewhat more heat gain because the insulation in the roof and doors isn't perfect.
4. If you have dark colored interior leather you will also see more heat gain in the leather even with tinted windows.
5. You also have a sunroof with glass...another place for solar gain.
I live in Tucson, AZ and use an opaque, reflective sunscreens on my windshields and my cars have always been hot inside (about 150 degF) at 4:30PM. I also have tinted windows (a necessity here) But I haven't noticed that it's unusually hot inside.
Recommendations and Lessons Learned from the desert:
1. Make sure you don't wear short, shorts so you don't burn your legs.
2. Try to orient the car so that the sun isn't hitting your drivers seat when you get in after the car has been in the sun all day. That is the worst case.
3. Most important...open all windows upon entering the car. This lets the hot air out quickly and helps the A/C cool the car quicker.
4. You might also try putting a white towel on your seat to prevent solar heat gain if the sun is hitting the seat directly (even through your tinted windows.)
You dealer is either too lazy to debug the problem or simply lack the knowledge to fix the transmission.
I have a black XLE with light grey seats. Black being a perfect absorber would lead to higher solar absorbtion.
I have a friend who has a black Accord with Leather seats and his car seats never get very hot.
I'm not sure what the difference is in the leather seats used by Honda vs. Toyota.
My 2005 corolla with cloth seats does not half as hot as my camry.
It could also be the difference in density of the leather used in the Camry vs. the Accord. A more dense (heavier) leather is going to hold the heat more and you will feel it more and for a longer period of time. As someone else pointed out the perforated leather seats on some of the luxury and sports cars is inherently less dense so they are going to feel cooler. The SE with leather has such a seat material. Solid leather vs. perforated leather of the same type will feel cooler in the summer and warmer in the winter.