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Comments
Due to the answer I received from the dealer I asked to have a factory rep look at the car. He was as arrogant or worse than the service manager. He looked at the car. He said the paint was from birds and me not cleaning the car. He looked in the door well and saw a little dirt and said I do not clean it. This was after it rained heavy for 2 days and the car was out in it. Of course though he did have the fuel filler cap repainted that had faded to gray. He then told me I have poor clutch skills and that the clutch is not faulty. Then he had the nerve to tell me a friend of his races the same car with a supercharger and has not blown the clutch. Well that I am sure is not true. Anyone supercharging the car and racing it is not going to keep a stock clutch. I have been around cars my whole 38 years. My father was a mechanic and said he was sure it was not my driving.
Now I am ready to go back after the dealer about the clutch. I want them to tell me it is my driving when the car now has 48K miles on it on the same clutch I supposedly wore out at 22K miles. WOW. I doubled the milage on a clutch I wore out at 22K. Guess that is some pretty bad driving.
I f someone starts another lawsuite, please post it. I am in on that (if I do not unload the car first). I have been so frustrated by the arrogance of Hyundai and their lack of ethics.
I think it is a shame that Hyundai does not stand behind their products and shoddy clutches. It is obvious from this forum that they are well aware of this problem and refuse to do anything about it. I would welcome a class action suit for 2007 Tiberons! :mad:
The answer is there.
As far as the existing clutch, its probably already shot.
However.. if you DO the simple mod as mentioned in the post, you will NO LONGER have clutch problems!
It isnt really a design flaw.. it's a functionality flaw.
Trying to make the clutch action super smooth and yet, wear the clutch out prematurely.
I have over 60K on my car, and 4 years.
Clutch works fantastic.
It works like a manual should when you do the mod.
Good luck.
My problem started when i couldn't get the car in gear, i would actually have to turn off the car and put it in gear and start from there. Its a Hyundai Tiburon 2006, i put a brand new clutch in and a clutch master cylinder but im still having problems putting it in gear PLEASE SOMEONE TELL ME WHAT COULD BE THE PROBLEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There is a possiblity that your clutch master and slave still have air somewhere in them.
Did you do the clutch mod that asks to remove the little spring and small valve in your clutch slave? (See post #67).
Typically, if the clutch slave is not pressing the clutch fork far enough, the clutch will not release the input shaft of the transmission, and you wont be able to shift into gear well, or at all. (grinding).
The exact opposite of a worn slipping clutch that wont keep the engines flywheel tight against the clutch disk which wont keep the
Since both the Clutch master and Slave can have air in them, continue to bleed the clutch and be sure the slave is pushing the pin hard enough against the clutch fork.
This can be felt in the clutch pedal, but if you have the delay valve, it numbs the feeling.
Sometimes, the new clutch master cylinder can actually be bad.. right out of the box!
Keep that in mind.
If I were you, Id replace the slave as well just for good measure.
They aren't horribly expensive, and you can look for the valve in that as well.
It is installed inside the fluid hose side of the slave cylinder coming directly off from the clutch master cylinder.
The last possiblity is the clutch disk or pressure plate was the incorrect size, or the throw out bearing is not the right type.
If it was a new clutch (not re manufactured) I would be less inclined to think it's the problem.
Did you install the new clutch? Or a dealer/shop?
Did it drive, or is it in the driveway with a new clutch?
Was the flywheel resurfaced?
Start with the bleeding procedure and take the delay valve and spring out first.
Make sure there are no leaks, and use a good fluid..
Dot 3 is ok, but Dot 4 is even better. (higher boiling point, and makes the clutch smoother).
Dont use Dot 5.
Also, one last thing..
Once you replace your clutch master, people tend to forget you need to put some silicon grease on the PEDAL shaft inside the car.
Eventually, it will squeak alot and drive you crazy.
LOL
Good luck!
Hyundai uses a dual inertia type flywheel, so for it to break that meant it got pretty hot.
Im sure with a really weak disk (due to slipping by the ridiculus, clutch slave delay valve) the pressure plate couldnt keep the disk sandwiched to the flywheel tightly, and as a result, literally warped the metal to all hell, and im sure cracking it.
As long as you remove the slave cylinder delay valve, I can assure you, you wont have a clutch problem like this again.
Over 60K on mine.. and I bought it at 16K.
I couldn't understand why the clutch felt so odd, and suspected the clutch master, or slave was somehow "slowing", or "delaying" the clutch engagement.
I was right.
I went online and found a guy on a Tiburon Forum that suggested removing the Clutch slave delay valve.
It did the trick.
The clutch feels like all other manual transmission cars out there.
No slipping, no slow takeup of drive.
Just perfect.
My gas mileage went up, and I have had no problem with my clutch.
I did this just a month or so after I bought her.
I've had her since February 2006.
Just don't forget to do this little easy mod, and you should be fine.
Good Luck!
:shades:
When we went to pickup the car, they said there was no charge for the master & slave cylinder in order to stick to the original $2300 estimate. We asked for the old parts back, and examined them before paying the bill. The clutch had very minimal wear (wear limit at the rivets is 1mm and there was at least 3mm), and on both the clutch cover and the flywheel you could still see 98% of the original machining marks on the contact surfaces.
At first the only problems I noticed were that the clutch cover surface showed minor signs of heat stress (blue discoloration) and the flywheel surface had quite bit of surface rust (very unusual because the clutch should fully disengage from both surfaces and clean off any rust upon re-engagement).
But then I noticed that the hub area of the dual-mass flywheel was cocked. According to the mechanic who worked on the car, this hub is supposed to allow some axial movement but no lateral movement, and needed to be replaced. The seal surrounding the hub was also distorted and not lying flat against the surface.
We went back to the service manager and insisted that the flywheel was defective and should be covered under warranty. After much discussion, during which we gave another look at the flywheel hub, we finally noticed that the hub ring edge was ragged and, in fact at some point had broken off and fallen out without damaging the clutch in the process! They agreed to cover the flywheel under warranty ($1100) even though they claimed that it was unlikely that Hyundai would grant it and the dealership would have to eat the cost.
I've never had a clutch need replacement before 150K miles of driving (or 10 years) and never had a flywheel break on me (after all, on most designs what is there to break besides the ring gear?). In my opinion there is a problem with both the design or q.c. of the dual-mass flywheel, and having a check valve in the slave cylinder that's causing all this premature clutch wear, especially with experienced standard transmission drivers. A class action suit should cover all models that use the dual-mass flywheel, from 2004 to end of Tiburon production.
Thanks for your participation and cooperation on following the rules of the road in the forums
If the metal itself is prone to rusting, I could see pressure plate forces, due to the altered angle of the pressure plate to disc against the flywheel effectively sticking, overheating and not disengaging the real deal.
However, this isn't happening in all cases from what I understand, but many of them.
It is important for anyone who is having this issue, have the clutch ASSESSED properly by a well trained mechanic.
Id consider getting the people who work on these car's to be involved in any potential legal action.
Of course, as the Host has stipulated, Edmunds cannot be held responsible for legal action created on this website.
There are other forums online that are generating these.
Still, the issue with the clutch slave delay valve and spring helps destroy the clutches in these cars in a rather short period of time.
The dual mass flywheel may be partly to blame, particularly if rust AND overheating, all caused by the silly delay valve work together.
An overheated clutch along with either salt water from de-ice,(very severe rust potential) or just rainwater entering the bell housing could promote rusting particularly if the clutch metals used have a high iron content.
That is why I am saying to consider the possiblity that something simple.. like the delay valve IS the main culprit.
Not only the clutch design.
ANY time you use the clutch, it actually ruins it by making it sliip for an excessive period of time until it fully releases.
Depending on RPM, the destruction of clutch material on the disc results in other damage to the Pressure plate, flywheel and throwout bearing as the loads change rapidly due to wear.
The part is simple to remove, and will stop all the wear you are encountering.
Yep.. this is a stupid engineering idea for them to put a "delay" valve to improve clutch "feel" at the cost of major wear.
Do the mod, and your clutch will feel like a normal clutch, with perfect engagement.
I agree that Hyundai should have done a recall on this part and eliminated it from the car altogether.
I have over 60K on mine and never had a clutch fail.
But it would have otherwise with the delay valve.
Just remove the slave cylinder, unbolt the banjo fitting and remove the little spring and its part with the hole in it.
Put it all back together and refill and bleed your brake fluid.
Add a touch of grease on the tip that contacts the clutch fork.
Good luck.
Hyundai should stick to something a bit easier like maybe go carts if you want to buy a car by a honda and leave the loud mufflers and wheels for the Hyundai guys, those cars wont be around to much longer thank god.
If there is an additional design flaw with the clutch fork and throwout alignment, that is the result of the overheating and warping in the first place caused by the intended, "slipping" Hyundai designed into the clutch system to improve clutch feel.
If the I O D is off, it will only make the problem worse.
It is not likely the general cause.
Anytime metal is fatigued with overheating, warping can cause all kinds of interference issues.
The INTENTIONAL design of slippage causes serious heat damage.
So.. no.. I am not wrong and you are not completely right.
You didnt consider the repercussions of just the act of overheating the clutch in general.
It is the cause of ALL clutch failure to the disc, at the pressure plate and the flywheel.
Your added info is interesting, but it is NOT the end failure result by itself.
It is only magnifying the problem by that stupid delay valve.
Yes, I believe Hyundai should rectify this regardless.
If you were doing a great deal of Hwy driving, that is likely why your clutch has lasted as long as it has.
There is typically little shifting done when you do long road trips.
If you had removed the clutch slave delay valve early in the car's life, your clutch would be fine.
But, not alot of people know about this problem.
If you are careful, and don't continue to drive on the clutch with its current condition, you might be able to get away with only a resurface of your flywheel.. but a word of caution.... it should be inspected carefully for any cracking, or severe warping and replaced if in question.
The friction disc is currently worn out, and your pressure plate can no longer provide enough clamping force to keep it sandwiched to the flywheel when the clutch is disengaged.
When you do replace your clutch, be SURE to remove the clutch slave delay valve!!
Then this wont happen again anytime soon.
I would recommend having your engine rear main seal replaced while your flywheel is removed as good measure, and also replace both transmission output shaft seals (one on each side of the transmission, where the cv axles enter.
As far as the clutch itself, I recommend a clutch kit, and try to go aftermarket NEW for good measure.
There are some great companies out there that make better than stock clutches, so they make a good investment for better long term performance.
(provided the clutch delay valve is out.. he he).
You can just go for a stock replacement, unless you want to add more mods to the car, ( for more hp) which a stronger than stock clutch will be of benefit.
You can go used OEM style for a clutch, but I don't think its worth the lower cost longterm.
They are reconditioned older parts with a history of known weaknesses.
I hope this helps.
Good luck!
It still doesnt release disc completely. When in gear and releasing the clutch it luggs engine properly with 1" - 1 1/2" of pedal release, but still doesnt allow to shift into gear.
My question is...... since the pressure plate is a pull type design, is there a possiblity that the release fork is pulling the release bearing off center causing the disc to not release evenly? Is there a way of adjusting the release fork?
Rick
The system is actually a push type system which uses the clutch master, to build pressure, to activate the clutch slave cylinder, which presses a rod against the fork, then the clutch fulcrums on a ball inside the bell housing, which in turn moves the Throw out bearing against the pressure plate fingers, releasing the clutch.
The central problem with these cars begins with the clutch slave delay valve and spring.. (which needs to be removed).
The one thing I am concerned about it you could have a slightly bent input shaft, which causes the friction plate to jam slightly with either the flywheel face, or the clutch pressure plate itself.
It is a possibility, or it the throwout bearing fork and related hardware are bent, or damaged.
Alignment is crucial, and so is adequate tightening of parts.
There could be a burr on the flywheel surface where the bolts connect to the Engine crankshaft causing a slight "tilt".
The Pilot bearing could be misaligned.
The replacement parts are Reconditioned (rebuilt) and were done improperly.
The clutch and all its parts may not all be correct.
The disk might be ok, but the throwout bearing is wrong.. or the pressure plate is wrong for instance (and a couple different ways back and forth with all these parts).
If the engine LUGS that means there is a connection still occuring at the disk.. so there is definately a problem with the transmission being allowed to "free wheel".. which is what the clutches job is. (release).
Obviously, the clutch needs to be disassembled again..
I am not sure if you did the clutch, or someone else did.. but just go back through it, and be SURE all torque settings are correct, all parts are smooth and ALIGNED.. with a slight amount of grease put into the clutch disk splines, and the throwout bearing sliding surface.
Use High temp grease if possible.
Hope this helps.
I am looking at buying a '03 Tiburon GT, and won't waste my money if the clutch problem was never resolved.
Did Hyundai ever own up to the problem, and provide a permanent fix?
I have actually made several replies to this issue.
Try looking at maybe.. Post #95.
There is a solid solution to solving this issue, but your friction disc is probably gone already.
Its the Clutch Slave Cylinder Delay Valve.. Remove it, and your issues will vanish with your next replacement.
Dont hesistate.. get it out of there.
Good luck!
:shades:
Heres the main link:
http://www.newtiburon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1962&highlight=clutch+slip
You might be able to salvage the flywheel, but it will need to be resurfaced more than likely.. have it inspected closely for cracking as well.
The throwout bearing should be fine.
Id defineately replace the Disc (obviously) and the Pressure plate without question.
Whatever you do.. make sure you get the flywheel resurfaced !!
If you ignore it, it will more than likely create a condition called clutch "judder".. which is caused by the surface of the flywheel not being smooth, like the disc and pressure plate will be.
It will cause a type of on again off again feel.. like a brake rotor does when its warped.
Considering the damn clutch delay valve has been slipping your clutch for the last 5000 miles, the flywheel has heat damage.. believe me.
I wish you best of luck!
Clutch started slipping, took it in, needs new clutch and flywheel.
My questions
1. The slave cylinder delay valve / spring mod applies to the 2006 model too ?
2. Define 'hard driving' as it pertains to a clutch. Does that mean high speeds, or frequent shifting or what ?
3. A few times I've been caught in bumper to bumper traffic on a freeway, crawling along too slow to leave the clutch out. Is there anything I should do in the situation ?
My miles have been mostly in-city, although now I commute on the highway, so future miles will be most likely cruising in 5th gear for the most part.
Any advice (along with the slave cyclindar mod) would be appreciated !
Alan
The answer is yes.. 2006 is under the same issue for the delay valve.
Anytime.. I mean anytime.. the clutch is used, the excess wear is in effect.
That Delay valve really makes the clutch slip.
Kind of like when you are first learning how to drive a manual.. you slip the clutch in fear of stalling it.
This is the way this thing works ALL the time!
It makes the clutch feel, "smoother".
You might already have enough damage (see my earlier post) that will mitigate the need for a new disk, pressure plate.. and possibly either a replacement flywheel, or a resurface. (have a clutch shop look closely at it).
At 39K, its just old enough to consider a full clutch kit anyway.
If you have gone 39K on a clutch thats known to have an issue.. you are doing great compared to many here.
I kind of doubt you have been, "hard driving" the clutch to death.
Honestly, it only applies when someone mods the engine.. adds another 100 HP at the wheels and races all the time shifting as fast as he/she can to the nearest grocery store!
Obviously, you havent been doing anything of the sort.
You have been driving in city.. which is also remarkable that the clutch hasn't failed sooner.
No matter what happens.. replacing the Delay valve is IMPERATIVE for your clutch to last a long time.
My tib has over 75K on it and its the Original clutch.
I removed the delay valve at 16K.
Besides increasing life greatly.. it FEELS so much better.. Positive engagements..
You wont believe the difference.
Good luck! :shades:
I'm looking forward to pulling the thing out ASAP.
I've been reading what I can about driving a manual transmission (it's always possible to learn something new ).
I guess I've tended to hold the clutch in as I'm slowing and stopping at lights. I've read that you should just put it in neutral instead.
Will running the car in neutral like this have any negative effects on the
transmission ?
Putting the car in neutral is fine, but your way isnt bad either.
If you are coasting to a stop, having the clutch in is going to happen anyway, because you are going to be going into a lower gear one way or another as you go slower and slower. (speed matching the gear).
It will allow for a faster gear engagement because the clutch is already engaged, and in some cases, might give you more time to avoid an accident!
In stop and go situations, you are forced to let out, then press in over and over.
Par for the course.
I rarely go into neutral in most cases.
On the road, coasting a long hill, with a manual, you can in essance put the car in neutral.
I have heard different views on this because while in neutral, the gears are not engaged to the main shaft.. and the gear oil, on a long neutral stint, may actually under lubricate the bearings and cause damage.
Particularly bad on Automatics.
(long as in something in excess of a couple miles).
I think going into neutral coming to a stop is ok, but it depends on the situation.
For braking downshifts.. (while having fun) this uses compression braking.
The Engine itself provides slowing down of the car through the gears.
This isnt a good idea for long term use because you are doing more down shifts.. which means more clutch use.
Using your brakes are far cheaper, and easier to repair than a clutch.
Honestly, use what method works for you.
Neither going into neutral coming to a stop, nor having the clutch engaged and then going into 1st is going to really matter.
Once the clutch is disengaged (your pedal is down) there is zero wear on the clutch disk.
Its always when engaging the wear happens.
Regardless.. you are going to have to go into SOME gear when you are stopped and want to move again.
LOL
There is another thing you can do to increase clutch life.
Skip shifts.
You can move from first, to 3rd, then to 5th.
You can essentially be in 5th gear as early as 45 Mph.
Watch for lugging.. if the engine RPM drops below 1500 on ANY shift in any particular gear and you notice the engine starts laboring some, and goes rough... it means there is too little power to travel at the speed you are driving at in the gear you are currently in.
Shift back down a gear.
Also.. when I meant it might be time to go ahead and get a clutch kit.. for 39K.. Its because you are going to have it apart anyway, and even if one or more of the parts was salvagable, its got just enough mileage to not reuse the old stuff.
Start fresh.
Also.. dont forget to remove the clutch slave delay valve.. LOL
Best of Luck! :shades:
It feels GREAT ! God how I missed my Tibby - all hub-bub and money aside,
I could have driven it all day when I left the shop.
The clutch feels like a clutch (finally, not again).
After driving a 4 cylinder automatic for the last seven days, it was such a pleasure to sink back into the shark.
Glad to hear everything worked out.
Yes, the Clutch Slave Delay Valve mod REALLY makes a difference!
I tell people who have the Tiburon I meet around town If they have Manuals, to get in there right away and take out that Clutch Delay Valve if they want to save their existing clutch longer and that it restores proper, "feel" of the clutch action, and control at the Stick.
Makes the car more fun.
The added bonus is no premature wear.
:shades:
Obviously the benefits of removing the delay valve would be that the transmission is smoother, but are there any disadvantages?
I'm a little uncomfortable with removing something from my car. I'm just worried that I won't be covered by insurance or something because I modified the car.
And if i were to remove the delay valve, is the car worth getting?
I have 80k on my tib, took out the delay valve at 16k.
Still works great.
The delay valve is a pure pain i'n the butt to leave in and wipes out your clutch prematurely.
I'd say, if the car has 38k and has been driven lightly and possibly mostly highway, it should be ok.
No guarantees..
But yes.. If the valve has not been removed, it's on a timer.
Maybe someone already took it out reading in the forums?
It's easy to tell if it hasn't.
Any person who has driven a manual trans will immediately feel the excess slip.
It's very easy to remove the valve and it brings the clutch back to a normal feel.
Gigantic improvement.
So.. Being as time tested as my 04 with 80k now.. All original clutch!
No issues and nothing but grins.
My professional opinion and experience.. Absolutely remove the silly delay valve and the spring.
Best of luck!
In your case, your right... you won't. ;-P
It takes some at least basic experience to feel the difference.
If you have someone you know that has something other than a Tiburon, I suggest trying it out.. then driving the tibby.
In some ways, the slipping clutch the delay valve brings to the Tib will make you a better clutch user, because the delay actually promotes slipping.. much like a early stick driver.
The easiest method is to just go ahead and remove the delay valve.. if its there, then good, if it isnt.. thats fine too.
As long as its G O N E.
If you are learning a stick on the Tib, do it the way it should have been all along.
No clutch slave delay valve.
Id teach you myself if I could.
Ive taught several people how to drive stick.
Its about timing with rpm, and understanding where the clutch engages and when to shift.
However, its about experience..
Practice daily.
After about a month or so of almost daily driving.. even just short trips, and on back roads perferably (with no traffic.. which is great).
Learn about easy engagement.. Not banging into gears.. smooth.. think smooth.
Find the point it engages.. move ahead, clutch in.. brake..
Find neutral.. brake.
Go back into first.. when below 15 mph..
Press the clutch back in.. Brake again.
Start off.. Start and stop.. Gain confidence.
That will teach massive control skills.
If the engine RPM is below 1500 RPM, shift DOWN a gear.. If its over 1800-2000 RPM.. Shift UP. (while driving Easy, this is the common spread of RPM in most cars).
Hard shifting.. you can take it to 5-6K.. and move to the next gear fast.. But, with experience.. not until then. :-P
Move through each gear.. skip shifting can come with time (1st to 3rd to 5th (or 6th on the SE).
SMOOTH..
All new drivers slip the clutch.
The 03 and on Tibby's do it ALL the time with the valve.. which wears out the clutch way too early and causes alot of damage in most cases.
Good luck!
Nobody ever talks about them at all.
Which is great.
They did use a similar engine and transmission.. the Beta 2.0 was still pretty much the same.
The only major diff was the new head with variable valve timing used beginning 2003.
And of course, a completely new body.
I have heard of some people complaining of the shift forks going out on the 1st gens, but that's not all as common as the Failing clutches of the 03 and later Tibs.
Its such a silly, and easy fix to remove the clutch slave delay valve and spring.. it makes me almost sick to my stomach that Hyundai even had such a part installed!
Dont know much about the 3rd gens.. because to me.. they are just 2nd gens with a refresh.
Hyundai didnt change much at all mechanically.
Im pretty sure they use the same silly delay valve in all the 5 and 6 speeds.
:P
It feels like it has a long pedal, and no definate engagement feel.
I would agree with his assessment.
Honda makes some very smooth clutches, and great transmission feel.
But.. they are also low on torque.. so stalling is easier.
On a Honda, my advice is to move the clutch AND gas pedal evenly as possible.
The engine needs alittle more RPM to get moving, with an even clutch disengagement as you begin.
Once moving, you can release the clutch all the way out alittle faster and can let up some on the gas.
Your stalling is due to the car not being in motion, and giving the car not quite enough gas (to boost torque).
For years, Honda has made cars like this.
Until 2006, with the New 1.8, and any 2.0 engine (SI civic) the torque was up noticably so it made it easier to learn how to drive a stick.
The 1.5, 1.6 and 1.7 Engines were all low on torque at low rpm, making it harder to clutch without slipping it more, and running the rpm higher for smooth take offs.
I promise.. you'll get it right.
Practice..practice..practice.
Also, if I do need to replace the clutch, do you know how much a clutch kit for a tiburon could cost?
I have heard of a "Hill Holder" clutch.. but that is a Subaru thing.
Hmmm..
Uphill starting is kind of nerve racking.
It's hard to not slip the clutch alittle due to the additional power the car needs to overcome the grade of the hill.
Honestly, I would suggest NOT doing alot of hill climbing from a stop while you are learning.
When you get good at general take offs, shifting, starting and stopping in typical traffic.. then come back to hill driving.
Its harder on your clutch.. no doubt about it doing hills.
Much like the Clutch slave Delay valve is in general use on a 2003-on Tiburon.
(why I suggest removing it so much).
As far as a clutch kit.. I would suggest a stock type kit from an aftermarket supplier as NEW.. not remanufactured.
If you plan on modding the car, maybe go with a step up with a slightly heavier clutch for more racing type applications.
Or nuts, and go full race (ceramic button type pressure plate and disk).
They tend to be harder to press in, but provide alot of clamping force for HP in excess of say, 500 or more.
You can buy new Hyundai Stock, but its going to cost more than just buying a OEM style aftermarket clutch.
Keep in mind.. if the clutch is going out, the flywheel might be toast too.
Its a dual mass flywheel, and I am not sure if there are any aftermarket companies who make them. (Havent checked recently) but typically, you have to buy them from Hyundai.
Luk makes good clutches. Might look into one from them.
As far as cost, they vary.. many cost 150.00 and up for a complete kit.. (disk, pressure plate, throwout bearing, alignment tool sometimes, and occasionally a pilot bearing/bushing.
You might be able to get a cheaper kit.. but be careful and do research on the company if you are looking to save money.
When it comes to clutches, I like to buy good quality components.
I hate redoing my work prematurely.
Otherwise, good luck!
http://www.newtiburon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1962