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Have other seen this problem?
I have found that the only way to consistently get in the mid 30's is to do a lot of driving at one time in town. Like driving around for 10 miles or more at a time. If you drive to work, go out to lunch, do some shopping after work, and then drive home; it's really hard to even hit 30; since most of those trips are less than 6 miles each. It takes at least 2 miles for the car to warm up enough before it really starts using the battery at all.
On the highway it isn't such a problem. I averaged about 40 mpg on a recent 90-mile trip (45 miles each way), averaging about 60 mph for my speed. So I have no complaints about highway mileage. But I don't know how everyone is getting the city mileage they are. I'm using every technique that people have mentioned to try and improve my mileage. Maybe I just need to wait until I have 5,000 miles on the odometer?
I have about 3900 miles on my TCH. In moderate weather I hit about 33 mpg. In the recent cold winter, it went down as low as 24 mpg. I've seen mpg figures around 40 but only on extended drives. I do a lot of short trips. I'm really happy for folks who report much better mpg. If its any comfort, it doesn't happen in every case. With gas
hitting $2.75 a gallon, I still feel a lot better than the folks in regular sedans.
Are you in Texas or is that just part of your ID? I'm getting the 35-36 in cold WV weather and hills. Now that you're using AC are you running it in the ECO mode?
One other thing it appears tank average display on dashboard consistently displays 3-5 miles more than actual numbers.
There are a lot of threads about this that I and others have contributed. Information about the error in the speedo, error induced by the tire size and odometer as compared to a GPS measurement are all discussed. The speedo and odometer are off and the errors cannot be corrected by changing the tire size since they are divergent. That is if you change the tire size to try to correct the speedo it would make the odometer error even bigger.
I back into a calculation each tank to determine what my theoritical gas usage would be in gallons based on the computer reading. I track this for a lifetime computer average FE. I also track each tank so I have the manually calculated FE average. I correct the manual calculation with the odometer error and make up some of the error but I've found that the normal manual calculation without an adjustment for odometer error is furtehr off from computer reading.
I have about 30 fillups and the difference between calculated and actual varry from 1mpg over to 1 mpg under.
If you're not consistant (and who really can be) a tenth of a gallon more or less on a fillup can make a pretty big difference in a car getting almost 40 mpg.
The catergorized old threads make for good reading and it's a bonus that is offered by EDMUNDS that some of the other forums don't offer.
I'd like more too but I understand the Prius is more of a city car and the Camry is a nice compromise in a family sized car that still gets excellent economy with 190+ horsepower. Many are complaining already about the battery size of the camry, I don't know how much more space they would take if you made them with another 25 or so hp. The Camry gets excellent FE on 2 lane roads driving at 50 to 55 mph.
WoW, the worst I've ever had was 33 (twice). Both times were 80+ mph trips, with one in the rain and one in VERY cold weather. The rain and cold was hurting me so bad I decided to not worry about my FE and went ahead and drove it with only partially practicing good hybrid procedures. (like slowing some going uphills (75mph) and allowing 85mph while "coasting" down hill).
At least with the Lexus they are only offering XM and not teasing us that it can easily be switched to Sirius. It come with a backup camera and all this at a starting price of... drum roll please... $54,900.
Nothing else makes sense if you want a fairly comfortable car without spending over 50K (if you do have that much, the Mercedes-Benz E320 Bluetec looks like a much better car than the new Lexus hybrid).
I guess if you have the $$$'s it doesn't matter, but diesel is running near or higher than premium gas around here. The top of line lexus (not the GS) is probably a lot more car than the E320. I also read that you can only use low sulfer diesel in the Bluetec and if you use what's found at most pumps it can quickly ruin your $2000 filter.
Does any one know just how available low sulfer diesel fuel is?
I'm hoping they come out with the Lexus ES (I believe that's the TCH equivalent) in hybrid. Though I'm hoping they stick to the 4cy and not feel like they have to put the v6 in for performance (I like the 38mpg). I'd like a little more quality materials than in the TCH but don't necessarily want to put $50K in a car anymore.
I have a good friend who purchased a full-loaded VW Jetta TDI in Jan of '06 (they aren't selling them in the U.S. this year while they redo the engines to meet the new requirements). His car isn't as large or luxurious as the TCH, but still not bad (heated leather seats, fairly quiet, navigation system, etc). His mileage is similar to the TCH (a little worse in the city, better on the highway). He told me that diesel is higher now because of the cost of switching over to the newer low-sulfur fuel. But once the switch is complete, he thinks the prices will be more in line with regular gas. That, along with other clean diesels that will be coming out (most noticeably from Honda) should provide many more choices in fuel-efficient cars than what we have now.
I was getting ready to go to a meeting when someone asked me if I brought my camera. Uh Oh, I said I'll be right back. I drove 65 mph on the 2 lane and when I pulled on the Interstate I did find out that the TCH will indeed do 100 mph. I also experienced some of that annoying engine whine. I slowed to 90 as I cruised the hills of WV for about 5 miles and then I hit the 2 lanes again. Got the camera, and made the trip back, similar speeds. Can't say I was disappointed. I did notice at 90 downhill and flat you still hit the 60FE mark, that's cool.
Just my 2 cents.
Ernest
This is really one of those "Ah Ha" experiences that once you get it you're really get it. I don't believe you're going to "push" the limits and get over 35 mpg with this car. However consistantly achieving 35 and hitting 40 on some drives is possible if you really want to. At first it takes a conscious effort and may seem like a lot of hassle. You "relearn" to drive to maximize the hybrid features. After a while you'll simply do it second nature. Untill you do it as a reflex it will seem like too much hassle.
Experiment some time as you accelerate (level or even a slight grade) and see what your instant FE reading is. Then completely lift your foot from the pedal and lightly reapply. You only give enough pressure to keep it goinf at or near the speed you were going. You'll see somewhere between a 10 to 20 mpg increase most times. Now if you're in rolling hills (as I am in West Virginia) you have to do this a lot. With a little practice it's a habit. I don't ever lose more than 2 mph when I practice this, but if you have the NAV system where you can watch the bars, it's amazing that you don't feel like you're making much progress, but you'll be amazed how all the little efforts add up.
I'll have to admit, my wife like many folks just don't want to do this. However I typically get 3 to 4 mpg more than my wife on similar trips. When I want to hypermile it (and I'm not in a hurry and on a road without traffic) I have taked 30 mile trips on rolling 2 lane roads at 40 mph and gotten in excess of 50mpg.
Again, it's not for everybody, but even on a bad day (yesterday at 80 mph in wind and rain) I got lousy milage that was still twice better than my previous car.
Just wanted to say that this is an excellent description of what happens when one starts making the change over to hybrid driving.
Good to know that my wife is not the only one that does not like to drive this way. It was surprising that she now enjoys my slower ways.
It does take more work than I wish it did to achieve consistent numbers above 30. Some people in these forums make it sound easy, but I don't think it is, at least not for me (unless you drive on the highway most of the time). The required driving style is starting to become second nature, but I still have to concentrate on the instant mileage indicator dial to make sure that the mileage really does go up when I let off the accelerator at the right time (sometimes it doesn't always work and I have to press on the gas and let up a 2nd time, even if the car is already warmed up).
I love the car, but it's not everything I expected. And although it's quiet inside, I have my share of intermittent rattles and vibrations that are hard to diagnose. The Camry Hybrid is close to a Lexus in quality, but it's not quite there. I wish Toyota would make an ES350 with the same mileage for under 40K fully loaded. That would be my next car for sure!
One thing for sure, the digital mileage indicator provides instant feedback, signaling me with a lower number whenever my driving gets a little aggressive. My previous car didn't provide that kind of information, only at refill time.
For me 45 to 50 degrees does not seem to hurt, but near freezing I lost 2mpg. Rain also cost me 2mpg. Driving 80 cost me another 2mpg.
My best milage is at 52+/- mph on rural 2 lane highways. I typically can get 40 to 42 there; 38-40mpg around town and on the Interstate I get 37 to 40 depending on just how hard I want to push it. However I don't live in a congested area, nor do I ever deal with rush hour traffic.
Well, in all fairness, it's not that you're "supposed" to drive that way, it's just that you can indeed maximize the technology by doing specific things. Even though my wife is not a "fanatic" like me, I only beat her by about 2mpg on similar routes. Even when she's getting 36mpg, I can't complain because it's 22mpg better than the Sequoia she'd like to have and drive
For those of us who get credit for being green only because we consider driving a hybrid as patriotic (wanted to use less foreign oil), then buying into radically different driving techniques may be too much of an expectation. Besides I believe to maximize the FE you have to have a little bit of obsessive compulsiveness and techno geek in you. I have both.
you could try to cheat the hybrid system by ease the gas once you got into 40 45mph on local. Then the E mode will kick in( the display could help). At that moment, keep the gas in or up very low otherwise the ICE will start. I found that you could be in E mode if road is flat or down hill and all green light. I did got 40mpg after 3 or 4 miles on the 16 miles from work to home. However, from home to work it is hard to do only got 37 to 39mpg
Current my mpg is 40.
1. I get better mileage on the freeway than start/stop city driving. The reason is that if I get a steady speed between 60 and 70 mph on a flat or downhill section of freeway, both the gas and electric motors are engaged. At that point, the mpg indicator drops to 60 (at first I thought it was broken). As long as I keep a steady speed or on cruise then this gas/electric relationship will continue. The electric stops helping when going uphill or accelerating. I have yet to take a long trip with it (going to do that this weekend) but I'm willing to bet I'll be getting mpg in the high 40s.
2. The worst mpg is created by accelerating because the electric motor can't handle it by itself unless your rate of increase is miniscule (i.e. you're a hazard to the people behind you). There doesn't seem to be any way around this. This even applies if you're going 70 and want to increase to 75.
3. I have gone as fast as 40 mph with only the electric motor engaged. I accelerate to my speed, then keep it steady. Usually at that point only the gas motor is engaged, so I let up on the gas a little for about a half second, then lightly press down on it again. Most of the time the electric motor will engage without the gas motor kicking back in. As long as I don't accelerate, I can keep the gas motor in the background (though it never shuts off, which is a good thing).
I live in Central Texas where there are low hills and I firmly believe my mpg would be a lot better someplace flat. The worst mpg I've gotten was 37 on a road trip through some hills with the temp in the 30s; nothing like accelerating up hills every half mile to drop the mpg. Like I said, I don't usually speed so that might skew it a bit. Also, I do half my driving in the early morning and thus don't use the A/C too much. I'll have to repost after the Texas summer is over.
I have about 3,000 miles on my TCH, and my current tank is my best so far (33.6 mpg). It will be my first tank over 500 miles. I don't understand how everyone else is getting close to 40. I feel very lucky if I can get up to 32 on a consistent basis. But 99% of my driving is city-only. Nevertheless, I am able to run in E mode for long stretches, but I can rarely get to 40, even for one day.
I can't complain though as I've already saved over $8500 in gas, payment and insurance in my last year of driving the TCH. The refund checks were awefully nice as well)
It took me close to 4,000 miles to figure out how to drive my TCH! Now it's second nature and the car is averaging 39 mpg. City driving is great, just don't do fast starts, coast and anticipate stops (forget about the car behind you - they will actually get better milage following you!).
I drive 95% in the city at speeds rarely exceeding 40 mph.
I am satisfied with the mileage.
I have yet to take it on any long interstate trips. I'll have to see how that turns out.
I hope to improve my mileage too. Good Luck!
I did point out that I'd certainly be willing to pay for the pearl paint. I like that. However I can wait until my next one before I get that option. My "savings" to date is over $9000 so I have no regrets (or jealously)for having purchased early. Unlike many of you I had to purchase before June 5th of 2006 to get an additional $3750 in STATE Tax Credits. I like that the rest of you (through you tax payments) have paid for about $6300 towards my TCH. Now that may make someone jealous.
Besides when I got the TCH I walked away from the jealousy and power game. I downsized and down graded for economy. I didn't plan on even liking this car that much but I do, so that's a bonus. I wanted a large, cheap to drive car and the TCH exceeds all my expectations.
Speaking of accessory's ... spoke to a Prius owner this weekend who only regretted not getting the nav system. Told him how useless mine is and now he is completely happy with his car.
To my (and my wife's) utter shock and surprise, I walked away from a Lexus IS350 for my Camry Hybrid and I have no major regrets. My Camry Hybrid is, all-in-all, the best car I have ever owned. I agree with you and can say the same on all points. Except for the $3,750 West Virginia state tax credit. Now on that, I am jealous!
But then again, I bet you have to live in West Virginia in order to get the credit. So I guess it all balances out.
(No harm meant. I have very good friends in West Virginia that I'm always joking with.)