Land Rover Discovery and Discovery II

ejohns · October 2002

FYI- Land Rover can order Owner's Manual for a price much more than $25.00. It's $46 for a '99 manual, which must be paid in advance and then it will take 3 weeks to arrive. Not sure I wanted to pay $46.00 so I scouted E-bay and found one much cheaper. Thanks for the e-bay tip!

tidester · October 2002

Never ever ever pay your truck off! Get down to about $100 owed on her, then pay it off a dime/check... forever.

An inelegant solution but the repo guy will take it off your hands - problem solved! ;-)

tidester, host

tincup47 · October 2002

Retailer's set their own customer prices. Suggested retail price is $25.00, but it is the same as vehicle pricing. All the Manufacturer can do is suggest the retail price.

texlaw2 · October 2002

I own an 03 SE and need to figure out what the proper tire pressure is for the stock tires. The sticker on the door jam says 30 front, 46 rear. The owner's manual says 30 front 38 rear. Landrover Dallas says 35/45; although, when I bought my Disco, each tire had 35psi. I am not pulling a trailer, or doing any off-roading at the moment, just city driving. Any suggestions? And why the three different answers? By the way, Landrover Dallas has no explanation for the different pressures.

nanuq · October 2002

Probably the different standard tires approved for the truck call for different pressures. The DI came with a couple different kinds of standard tires... mine were the Michelins and they called for 28F/38R. The lower number for the front encourages understeer during severe steering inputs which reduces the tendency to get your truck sideways and rolling it.

I have since replaced my Michelins with big meaty Nokia Hakka LT10s which call for 85psi. I run them at 50psi all around and I'm happier than a clam at high tide. But I also run a bigger risk now of rolling my truck in an emergency than you do.

Caveat Emptor.

odiopus · October 2002

Is there anyone out there who owns more than 1 disco? I've had mine ('01 SE7 + ACE) for a year and I couldn't be more satisfied with the overall performance, off roadabilty, and safety of the vehicle. I work near the gulfcoast where it floods often and waddle through deep waters on regular basis. Saves me the trip of taking the long way to work... It rains plenty here and would rather have my wife drive my 3 month old son to daycare during such conditions so I am thinking of the possibility of purchasing a 2nd Disco (preferrably a used SII). Can anyone make any suggestions what to look for in a used SII Disco, espcially if you own more than 1? I would love a D90, but they seem to stay in the $30-$40K range.

Odiopus

wasko · October 2002

Bob: Just had mine go off about a month ago - turned out to be seatbelt tumblers sticking (that's not cool). If that is causing the light to trigger, you may want to have her looked at. Would hate to have you be the first Edmunds Disco forum member to report airbag usability to the group

Thanks - wasko

nanuq · October 2002

Thanks Wasko... you mean the little woobies in there that prevent the belts extending when I jam the brakes? They work fine. Is there a device that senses when the seatbelts are/aren't connected? I've never seen it in the Disco. Can you tell me more about where it is, what to look for? I wonder if it's just on the DII......

It's 33F this morning, there was a ton of frost on the trails and I had a cautious bike ride!

Thanks for the tip! -Bob

stever · October 2002

Regular heat wave there Nanuq - was 10 above at my house this am and a wee dusting at the ski mountain.

Did you see that the "Editor's Most Wanted Midsize SUV Over $45,000" was the Range Rover?

Steve, Host

nanuq · October 2002

I WANT SNOW!!!!!!!! I even tempted the snow gods this morning by riding my bike to work without studded tires. There was a lot of frost on the ground but *alas* no snow yet!

Let's see, how does that Snow Dance go....??

tidester · October 2002

I even tempted the snow gods this morning by riding my bike to work without studded tires.

Yeah, but were you wearing shorts and sandals?? :-)

tidester, host

nanuq · November 2002

No shorts or sandals, although on my hike up into the mountains last weekend I did come across the dreaded Mud/Ice Beast. Take a look!

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeek!!!!

nanuq · November 2002

We have 3' to 4' cracks in the highways up north and it knocked over 45' containers in parking lots, knocked over some fuel tanks and did lots of damage to item on shelves in stores and in homes. But no fatalities are reported... and now we get to go 4-wheeling on the highways!

All is well.

stever · November 2002

Thanks for checking in, Nanuq. Javadoc over in Vans wasn't too thrilled about today's shaker :-)

Steve, Host

nanuq · November 2002

This one was felt as far away as Louisiana! Whoooeeeee, no wonder Java didn't like it.

http://adn.com/24hour/nation/story/604763p-4674497c.html

nanuq · November 2002

We're lucky in Alaska, we get to go 4-wheeling on the highways!

photo from the ANC Daily News

stever · November 2002

Looks like the frost heaves are a little bit worse than normal this year.

Steve, Host

tidester · November 2002

It looks like the roads are offroad! :-)

tidester, host

nanuq · November 2002

Looks like this trucker thought he could offroad the semi? Actually it opened up beneath him as he drove. Good catch!

stever · November 2002

I read that his front wheels sheared right off. Nice job of keeping it upright.

Steve, Host

smarticus · November 2002

After having driven the new Range Rover for 4 weeks now I am in a better position to accurately compare it to the Discovery. My first reaction (as posted last month) was that it didn't handle the corners nearly as well as the Disco. That is still true, although the appropriate word is probably that it doesn't handle the corners "the same" as the Disco. The Range Rover is a lot bigger and a lot heavier (after all BMW, who originally designed the new Range Rover, wanted it to be distinctly different from their X5)and is designed to handle that weight comfortably rather than sportily. The Range Rover handles broken surfaces with remarkable fluidity and smoothness and makes the Disco feel quite "harsh" by comparison. It also makes the Disco feel quite cramped. All in all I still think the Disco is a hell of a good car ("truck ?") but the Range Rover has won over my affections and now that I have "adjusted" to driving it well, it is the Range Rover keys I grab most mornings, leaving the Disco to the wife.

marsha7 · November 2002

Steve: your assessment was correct, that my warped sense of humor was suggesting C4, which was properly identified by Tidester...it is nice to know that my "singular" humor brings out the $2 words in SOMEBODY, and be grateful it is not duplicate or triplicate...forgive the long delay in responding, took the last week of Oct off, celebrated 20th wedding anniversary on Oct 31 (yes, Halloween) with the real marsha, aka marsha1 or marsha numero uno, came back to a ton of correspondence on my desk, and now my head is finally above water to breathe...have already posted to Tide in "I don't like SUVs..." as we have an ongoing discussion in that topic...

Bob

stever · November 2002

Welcome back! I met my wife at a Halloween party 22 years ago (she got a lava lamp for the "anniversary ). You have a couple of years on us for the actual anniversary - congrats on a real milestone.

No Disco news unless you want to read about not so great mpg: New cars headed in reverse on fuel usage

Steve, Host

marsha7 · November 2002

Actually, I first dated her on the day before her birthday, so I have two "anniversaries" to remember, but luckily it is not so difficult...married 20 years, dated almost 25 years...waited a long time to get married, as I had almost made a BAD mistake prior to her, so I was slightly cautious...OK, I was scared to death and waited until I knew it was right... gratefully, she waited for me to come to that decision...why Halloween???...the only real reason, actually...that was the only day the CATERER had an opening, so we took it...true story from the "archives of Bob"...

marsha7 · November 2002

Sorry for the sojourn off topic, I guess my life with Marsha does not really qualify for a Land Rover Discovery topic...but, while we were driving away for our honeymoon evening, I thought I saw a Land Rover on the road, does that qualify???

Bob

marsha7 · November 2002

Discovery brochure, I noted the new engine, with 217 HP and 300 ft lb of torque...the HP seems like nothing to brag about at 217, but does the torque allow it to accelerate well from 0-60, or from, say, 30-60???

lupin10 · November 2002

Whats the opinion on this topic?
Comparing the 2003 to the 2003 4Runner, whats should the main argument be for a Disco?? Starting to compare them both, and the 4Runner is more powerful, better warranty, less expensive. Finding it hard to stick with the Disco (even though I want to so badly!!).

Sporin · November 2002

Just for comparison, I went to www.toyota.com and built a new 4Runner to "match" up with a new Discovery. This basically meant building the highest trim level (Limited) and adding on a few other goodies. Then I did the same with an '03 Discovery.

Option for option ONLY, a comparably equipped 4Runner is $40,588.

I used an S Discovery with comparable options. I wanted to avoid the 18" wheels and ACE as there is no comparable on the 4Runner side. Even with the dual-sunroofs it was only $36,995!

Now I don't think even the most ardent Roverphile would argue Toyota's reputation for putting together a long lasting, trouble-free product. But there is little doubt in my mind that the Disco would beat it off-road especially over the long run. it's just built a lot tougher, with heavier-duty bits and pieces. It also has a longer warranty, better dealership service and sales ratings, and it's even CHEAPER!

The Disco has a 4 year, 50k mile bumper-to-bumper warranty.
The 4Runner has a 3 year, 36k mile bumper-to-bumper warranty.

I bet Toyota hopes that no one realized that they have priced themselves up to and above the LUXURY nameplates.

Sure you could get a lower trim level 4Runner and save a few bucks, but then you really don't have a comparable truck do you?

The new 4Runner is a cool truck, but make mine the Brit!

marsha7 · November 2002

how are the seats for support on a long trip??...good support or exhausting...adjustable lumbar support, bolstering etc???...nothing worse than a vehicle that tires you out after 2 hours of driving on a 5 hour trip...

stopgo · November 2002

Interesting that this just came up. I just purchased a 2003 Disco HSE (no ACE) and paid $40,195 for it. I waited until the 4Runners came out to test drive one and compare it to the Disco. As previously stated, I went with the Disco. This was a very hard decision since I have been a loyal Toyota consumer for over 15 years and sold my 1994 4Runner to get into the Disco.

They are quite comparable vehicles in 2003. Yes the Runner is more powerful but it is not by much at all. The Runner is way quieter as far as the engine noise goes, it is a little quicker off the line too. Those are the only advantages over the Disco I saw, oh and the whole reliability issue. Runner gets 3 MPG better gas mileage in town and 1 MPG on the highway better.

The Disco seats are far more comfortable and supportive, the ride and handling are stiffer and more responsive, and as stated in a post above, over the long haul I'd bet the Disco would hold up longer under adverse off-road conditions than the 4Runner would. The Disco warranty and dealer service is better than Toyota, it's better looking than the '03 Runner with it's cladding, Disco's engine has been around longer than the new Runner V6, and even the V8.

Again, I think they are very comparable vehicles. You really can't go wrong with either one. I do not regret my Land Rover purchase, in fact, each time I see a new Runner, I am that much more satified with the Disco! It is a really fun truck to drive!

Good luck with your decision,

Dave

kullenberg · November 2002

Actually the 4Runner does have a comparable option to the Disco's ACE. I forget the inevitable initials, but what it does is cross link the shocks (dampers) to inhibit roll. Not nearly as effective as ACE. Apart from all that is the fact that the 4Runner lacks "SOUL". Also, in my case, it still doesn't fit. I have to contort myself to get into a 4Runner ( I'm tall). Finally, one must ask which one will you look forward to driving a year or two from now?

law2lett · November 2002

I was going to purchase a 99 Disco but I've changed my mind now, thank-god. After reading about all these problems. I'm looking for something to drive thats reliable for me and my family.I have six mouths to feed can't afford one more thanks a h#!^ of alot

nanuq · November 2002

No matter what you buy you're risking a truck that will give you problems. Over the long run a Rover will give you fewer problems than almost any other truck. If you're pragmatic, and I can only assume you are by your post, then you won't buy a truck on a whim... and you'll keep it many years. Over that "many years" period a Rover will cost you perhaps half as much as the other brands you're considering, which will need replacing every 5 years.

Not to stir your kettle or anything, but this has been my personal experience. I can vouch for it. My sisters in law have bought three 4WDs apiece in the space of time it took me to pay off my Rover. They thought they were saving money to spend a little less than I spent on the Rover... and their most recent purchases each cost more than I paid for the Rover 4 years ago. In their search for durability and reliability they have tried Jeep Grand Cherokees, Ford Explorers, Ford Escapes and Dodge Durangos. Now they each still have 5 years of payments to make, and I have a free and clear Rover. And mine has been *FAR* more reliable than any of the six vehicles they've tried.

Sorry, but those are the facts. And a hint: you won't get your "six mouths to feed" in a Rover anyway. How about a minivan?

Regards, -Bob

dxdang · November 2002

I have a 99 Disco Series II and only 1 major problem during my 3 years of owning it. It was a radiator leak around 32k. It was fixed under warranty and now at 52k not a single problem since. Still loving it!!!

lupin10 · November 2002

Dave (stopgo) or anyone else-

Which would you say will retain a better resale value (say 5 years), Disco or 4Runner?
Also, during your evaluation of the new 4Runner was it considerably roomier than the previous 4Runners? That's one item I disliked with the 2002 4Runners. Seemed as if it was more of a pain to get in and out of, where as the Disco felt much more comfortable. I'm always taking long trips (beach, skiing, etc.) and want the passengers to feel comfortable for the long hours.
Last question...what is the difference between a Discovery and a Discovery Series II? I find dealers selling both, but can't find out the difference.

Thanks

nanuq · November 2002

Talk to Mike Green at West Coast British in California. He has a '96 Discovery and a year ago he had already put 650,000 miles on it.

His friend had a 4Runner and it needed rebuilt at 108,000 miles so Mike did it. Then he thought "ya know my Disco would probably benefit from a rebuild" so he tore it down and it was basically still within tolerance.

At 6 years age my Disco still feels as tight and drives as well as (or better than) a new truck. It's the only vehicle I've owned where I can say that. And it's been more reliable than any of the 13 Hondas I've owned. And it lives a hard life (ahem) with me.

Of course it's subjective, but the things that matter to me point me toward the Rover.

There are many differences between the DI and DII. The DII is even more reliable and stronger in the drivetrain. It offers roadholding features like ACE, and it has a longer tail for more storage. But I want my Disco short for offroading, and I never corner hard enough to want ACE. And, to me the view out of a DI is less claustrophobic than the DII. The DII has Bosch systems vs. Lucas (big thumbs up), and it went to Range Rover axles with fewer moving parts than the early DI axles. But how many of you have exploded a differential lately? For offroading I'd go with a DI with lockers and upgraded halfshafts. For mainly road use, look for a DII.

Regards, -Bob

intmed99 · November 2002

The new Disco can make from 0-60 in about 9.5 seconds...which is 2 seconds better than the '02 model (with 4.0 V8).

intmed99 · November 2002

Both are good vehicles...one better at off-roading, the other better on-road and better reliability. Structural stiffness...i am not too sure on that one...the '02 4Runner (what i own) has one of the strongest frame (high-strength fully-boxed frame and high-strength fully-boxed 8 crossmembers). The '03 4Runner has 9 crossmembers.

I highly respect the Disco...my brother has one (2001 model) with only one minor problem so far (driver door lock froze).

kullenberg · November 2002

Bob: What tires are you running on your Disco. I know you get a lot more snow there in Ak than we do here in the Mtns on NC, but it can still get grim in the winter. When the lease on the ML runs out, I plan on getting a year or 2 old Disco and an extra set of wheels, and mount a set of Nokian Hakka's on them. Any better suggestions? BTW most of our roads ar semi maintained gravel, and any offroading I might do would be light.
TIA
Cheers
Pat

nanuq · November 2002

Like the British spelling?? I run Nokians here, year round. I went non-studded and have not regretted it. The Hakka's stick like a scared cat on carpet. Take a look at Discoweb.org for sizing... I upsized a couple steps and they rub a bit over serious cross-axle conditions... not to worry. I run them at 50psi (recommended pressure is 85) and they're fantastic. Plus, the increased diameter put my speedometer spot-on.

I considered the BFG Trac-Edge... if I hadn't got a good deal on the Nokians I would have gone that route. But I think I would have regretted it by now, they're not as good in deep snow.

Avoid the Blizzaks and Alpins... one of them (I forget which) uses a spongy soft "open" rubber that sticks well for a few thousand miles but wears quickly. My Nokians have DEEP tread.

Last winter we got 36" snow in 24 hours and I took my Boy Scout troop out playing in it. I broke trail down an unused road, and I was pushing snow with my headlights. When I got where I wanted to go, I stopped but couldn't get my doors open! I had to climb out the back hatch. THAT'S how well the Hakkas work in deep snow.

Enjoy your Disco! You might find that one set of wheels is plenty good enough.

Best regards, -Bob

stopgo · November 2002

lupin,

It's always tough to say what resale value a car/truck will have. I'd have to say that the Runner has a better shot at a higher resale value than most vehicles in it's class due to it's (and Toyota's) reputation. There is a considerable depreciation waged against the Rover in the first year for some reason, almost $4000 more than that of a 4runner.

I owned a '94 Runner for 8 years, I spent a lot of money repairing things after 36K miles when the warranty ran out. CV joints, controller arms, valve cover gaskets, clutches, transmission (3rd gear 2x, and 1st gear 1x). So, even though I sold this truck for $8000 with 145K miles on at at 9 years old, I feel that the resale value still didn't get me all my money back I sunk into repairs on what is supposed to be the most "reliable" truck available.

I have read many reports of problems with Discos. The reports on later model years having troubles are few and far between. I am comfortable with the Disco reliability baseed on this as well as folks on this board reporting the high miles they are putting on their trucks.Seems like as long as you take care of the truck, it will take care of you.

The new Runner is definitely more roomy inside. However, the front seats sit a little low. The back seat is way better this year than any previous model. The Disco back seat entry/exit and knee room are quite tight, the Runner is a bit better. Once inthe backseat of either vehicle, it was comfortable. Sitting in each of these trucks during my shopping trips, I felt that the Disco was more solidly built, more comfortable, and used higher quality materials.

It was a tough decision to be honest, but I am very happy with the Disco, no regrets> It is a much more fun truck to drive than the Toyota, handles like a sports car, well, at much as any truck can, very tight, very responsive.

marsha7 · November 2002

a 96 Disco with 650,000 miles???...that's about 108,000 a year for six years...when does he stop to rest???...

Bob

lupin10 · November 2002

Stopgo,

Thanks for your feedback. I test drove a 2003 Disco S last night, and it reaffirmed my commitment to the ride. I still have not taken the $Runner out (i will this weekend), but perhaps my mind has been made up already! Anybody in the Washington DC area recommend a dealer (rosenthal, alexandria, rockville)?

Thanks again.

stopgo · November 2002

Hope the comments help you out. Sounds like you may have your mind made up! I had ridden in the Disco HSE about 3 times before the 4Runner but was adamant about waiting until the Runner came out so I could drive one before buying the Disco, drove the Rover salesman nuts with that.

I had decided before driving the Runner that I was buying the Disco and the only thing that'd change my mind was if the Runner just blew me away. I was impressed, just not blown away.

The Rover dealers here in NC are all about 2 hours apart from each other and will NOT deal with anyone from another city (region) if they know you are not from the region they serve. I called around to other dealers and they asked where I was coming from. Once I told them they referred me to the local dealer and wouldn't even talk to me anymore.

Good luck.

wishnhigh1 · November 2002

Can anybody compare the 4WD systems on the DiscoII and 4Runner? I am just interested in the performance of the 4WD systems, not anything else like suspension.

intmed99 · November 2002

Both system are ABS-based 4-wheel traction control system. Both are proven. Land Rover has a slight edge in this department.

1. Land Rover has a stronger LO-range (3.X vs. 2.57); HOWEVER, crawl ratio actually favors the 2003 4Runner with V8 (35 vs. 28).

2. Traction system on the Disco acts quicker than 4Runner...a good thing.

3. However, the Disco's traction system decreases it's action above 30 mph (not very important); 4Runner's system has no limit that i know of.

4. 4Runner does have stability control that can be shut off; Disco does not.

5. 4Runner has a LOCKABLE center differential; Disco (prior to 2003) did not.

6. 2003 4Runner's disc brakes are bigger.

Overall, for pure off-roading, the 2003 Disco 4wd system is probably a bit better, simply because it acts quicker.

wishnhigh1 · November 2002

the 2002 and earlier Discos didnt have a lockable center differential? Isnt that kinda useless in slip situations, or does the traction control negate that effect?

nanuq · November 2002

My '96 has a locking center differential. You add lockers to both axles (about $1000) and hey presto... you're unbeatable.

In my view of the offroading world, you cannot separate 4WD performance from the suspension to which it attaches. Without long travel suspension your wheels will not stay in contact with the ground and your 4WD quickly loses ability to keep you moving.

My neighbor has a venerable FJ40 with the V8 engine swap. It's a fine truck and well maintained. But it has leaf springs and very limited suspension travel. Two summers ago we were in a situation where we had to climb a ledge, it was about 30" and fairly hard soil, nearly vertical. He let me go first and it was no problem getting my wheels up on it, then jockeying and going up. He just shook his head, smiled and said there was NO WAY he could get up that thing... and he was right. It's all in the suspension.

For the average Joe who wants to slop around in goo once in awhile, both the 4R and DII are fine. But if you're going Star Trek style, where no man has gone before, get something with long suspension travel, lockers, skid plates and short overhangs.

About resale: the trick is to buy a Disco with 9 months on the clock. They're out there in droves. People take the bite then regret it financially. You get the truck you want for the price you want, with a ton of warranty left.

Marsha: Mike runs expeditions down to South America and back with his Disco. That explains the BIG mileage.

Adverse weather: I drove to Kenai and back yesterday, 300+ miles in a driving snowstorm. I was caravaning with 4 other 4WDs and none of them were comfortable over 30mph. I took the lead and it was hard to hold back and wait for them. Eventually I just let my speed go and I was able to stop 5 times on the way back to clean the headlights and they still never caught up until our appointed grouping up point. The Rover is absolutely unshakeable and unstoppable in ugly conditions... I was refreshed though tense. The two Fords, the Subaru and the Chevy were not, and their drivers were a wreck when they arrived.

My $.02 -Bob

kullenberg · November 2002

I would add to what Bob posted that an apparantly good source for year or more old Discos is Bear Valley Land Rovers, in Atlanta; http://www.bvlandrovers.com/ They have a very complete web site, and the prices are not bad. I've asked around both on this board and others, and they seem to have a good rep. Disclaimer - I am in no way assoc. with BVLR, and have not (yet) bought a vehicle from them.

Cheers

Pat

intmed99 · November 2002

The traction control does negate some of the problems with a lack of center diff lock. However, in extreme conditions, you would want the center diff to be locked (power always 50/50), instead of relying on shifting of torque back and forth constantly...kinda of like PREVENTIVE (center diff lock) vs. Reactive (no center diff lock).

Land Rover Discovery and Discovery II

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