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Porsche 911 Lease Questions

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  • si_chipssi_chips Member Posts: 5
    Hi Car Man,
    For 36 month lease of a 2009 911 C2 Coupe with a manual transmission from what I see in your earlier postings:
    15k mi/yr is 55%
    12k mi/yr is 56%
    10k mi/yr is 58%

    Can you tell me what these would be for 48 month lease?
    Thanks!
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi chips. PFS' September buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2009 911 C2 Coupe with 15,000 miles per year are .00146 and 55%, respectively.

    You definitely do not want to lease this car for 48 months. If I recall correctly, its special lease offer is only available for 36 month leases. If that is indeed the case then if you were to lease for 4 years, this car's money factor would more than double from .00146 to .00310. Ouch.

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  • porschecrazyporschecrazy Member Posts: 6
    Hi All

    So this weekend I found my dream 911 C2, discussed the finances worked out the numbers and sat down with the dealer to finish the deal.

    The dealer took down my information ran my credit and told me that I have a 740 score but PFS might not approve my lease because I don't have comparable credit.

    My current car is a 17000$ Toyota and PFS might not agree to lease a 911 to me as its too big of a jump.

    Apparently their automated system turned it down and the dealer might need to discuss it with PFS over the phone ( PFS is not open on a Sunday )

    Has anyone in this forum faced a similar problem with not having comparable credit??

    Thanks!
  • porschecrazyporschecrazy Member Posts: 6
    Thanks for the info cardiohex. Will definitely watch out for the fine print.
  • weakestlinkweakestlink Member Posts: 42
    Carman or anyone else,

    Is it still 51% and 56% for 36 and 24 months, 15k?
    Does PFS bump up 3% for 10k miles?
    And .00146 MF?

    Thanks.
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hey weakestlink. PFS' special .00146 money factor is good through the end of the month. However, its residual values for 24 and 36 month leases of the 2009 911 C2S Cab with 15,000 miles per year are now 54% and 51%, respectively.

    Yes, you would add 3% to these residual value for leases with only 10,000 miles per year.

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  • tb310tb310 Member Posts: 2
    Car-man - is the special lease money factor .00146 still offered in Sept? West LA dealer quote on 2009 911 cab w/ minimal options (PDK, heated seats, floor mats) LMF .0024 (if lease paid up front of $42K) or .0031 (w/ monthly payments $1250, $3K driveoff) on 3 year lease 12K miles year..

    Is the lower LMF of .00146 still being offered?

    If dealer lists:
    CashSalePrice $77K , but 3 yr lease based on MSRP $94K, I think the lease calculation is based on MSRP. Dealer said vehicle MSRP for lease is based on MSRP, not the CashSalePrice. Does Porsche negotiate the MSRP and residual used in the lease calc or am I stuck with MSRP and 54% residual?
  • weakestlinkweakestlink Member Posts: 42
    Hi tb,

    From my pretty extensive research, the .00146 is available on all 997 leases in September. And the incentive on all RWD 997s is $10k. The $10k incentive cannot be combined with the subsidized lease program so you should add $10k to the cash sale price ($77k + $10k = $87k).

    BTW, on a $94k MSRP, the markup is 10% so the dealer cost would be approx. $84,600 ($74,600 if buying). I've found several dealers on the East Coast willing to sell for $1000-$1500 over invoice.

    Hope this helps. You may want to get Carman or someone to verify my facts but based on my own searching, I'm pretty confident they're correct.
  • tb310tb310 Member Posts: 2
    thanks for the insight. With your advice, I'm going to purchase the car and have a better idea how much I can negotiate on the price with the dealer still making a fair profit (but at least saving me thousands of dollars). Without your guidance, I was reluctant to pull the trigger on the purchase as I feared overpaying. You do a great service and I appreciate it dealer and will think of you whenever I drive my 911!
  • kentmoonkentmoon Member Posts: 44
    What if you take cash discount ($10K) and use 3rd party lease deal? I've always gotten a lease based on cash purchase price in the past. As long as you don't take lease special from Porsche. Is that possible?
  • kentmoonkentmoon Member Posts: 44
    I've answered my own question. I've talked to a couple of dealer in So Cal, and I can take $8K discount (it is now $8K only on 911, not $10K), and not get special low money factor, but get regular Porsche lease deal. They told me that monthly payment is cheaper that way. Lowest I've got is $1200 plus tax on MSRP $99K 911 Cab for 36 month at 10K miles per year based minimum drive off. I think he is making about $2000 over invoice. Is this a fair deal?
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi tb310. Yes, the .00146 money factor is available through the end of the year.

    The selling prices of leased vehicles are negotiable, just as if you were paying cash for or financing them. The only difference would be that the dealer cash that Porsche is currently providing on the 911 is not compatible with its special lease program. Therefore, you will only be able to negotiate in the space between full MSRP and dealer invoice price rather than getting this car for under invoice...which would be probable on a cash purchase.

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  • smirza2000smirza2000 Member Posts: 9
    All, I am new to the Porsche, didn't realize/reaseacrh enough. I shlould have ound this board before leasing my 2009 POrshe.

    I just wanted to get feedback. I paid 5K total clsing costs and my payment is $1857/=. I was offered a $1927 lease for a 2009 PDK Carrera S (not 4S or cabriolet).
    So when I got a 2009 4S cabrioloet with PDK (yr 2009), I though 1857 with 5K down is a good deal. It is too late now, but am just checking for future, if this is too much price, average or did I get a good deal?
    Thanks.
  • smirza2000smirza2000 Member Posts: 9
    BTW its for 15K miles per year for 36 months.
    Looking forward to some experienced folks input.
  • dwpcdwpc Member Posts: 159
    It looks like the flat depreciation on late model used 911s should make for a great lease deal. The Porsche website doesn't say anything about pre-owned car leases except that they offer them on cars up to 5 yrs old. I haven't leased a car in about ten years and need a refresher on evaluating a deal. I've never leased a used car. I hope some one can refer me to an informative website and maybe provide the Porsche MF for a used 911. Is it a good idea to negotiate a lease via e-mail?

    The dealer seems resistant to discussing a used car lease and I'd like to go back fully prepared. BTW, the car is a Porsche-certified '05 911 Carrera (997?) with 50K miles . I still need to research maintenance costs that I might be exposed to.
  • smirza2000smirza2000 Member Posts: 9
    Hi Carman,
    Requesting your input..
    I am new to the Porsche leasing/buying process, didn't realize/reaseacrh enough. I should have found this board before leasing my 2009 Porshe.

    I just wanted to get feedback. I paid 5K total closing costs and my monthly lease payment is $1857/=. I was offered a $1927 lease for a 2009 PDK Carrera S (not 4S or cabriolet) by another dealer in Miami. I bought this car from mid west.

    Its a loaded Carrera 4S Cabriolet with Sports chrono, nav, bluetooth etc, with MSRP of $124K.
    So when I saw a 2009 4S cabrioloet with PDK (yr 2009), I thought $1857 with 5K (includes first payment) down is a good deal. It is too late now, but am just checking for future, if this is too much price, average or did I get a good deal?
    Thanks.
  • dwpcdwpc Member Posts: 159
    Hi. More on my hope to lease a pre-owned 07 Cayman S
    Porsche dealer's quote for a 36 mo. lease of a pre-owned '07 Cayman S:
    Price $41.5K
    Cash Down $7.5K
    MF .00350
    48% residual (on price)
    "bank fee" of $895
    Pmt: $670+ tax

    Not good. I could get essentially the same pmt on a brand new 09' Cayman S with a little price haggling. Or a stock Cayman for $100/mo less and 50% less $$ down.

    I expected a lower MF reflecting the going loan rates and much a higher residual because its past the worst depreciation years and its a Porsche. With those lease variables, there's no way to get a price low enough to make up for the low residual and this work. Are my expectations unrealistic?
  • blackberryxyzblackberryxyz Member Posts: 8
    Carman and/or others:

    I am looking at a lease offer for 2009 demo 911 Carrera coupe with PDK for $7,500.00 drive away and $800.00 a month before tax or roughly $36k all in for the 3 year lease. 36 months 10k miles/month

    The car has less than 2,000 miles and has never been titled as it is a dealer demo car therefore qualifies as new for lease purposes. Original MSRP around 86k

    Sounds pretty good to me, thoughts from anyone asap? thanks

    (I also saw a 2009 911 arctic blue cab over the summer for roughly $43k all in for a 36 month lease but my wife hated the color and nixed the deal. There dont seem to be those types of deals around for the 2009 cabs at least what I have seen here in California, both north and south.)
  • gre09gre09 Member Posts: 9
    Car man:

    What are the residuals on remaining '09 911s?
    Ex.: 36month/10k miles/year?

    Is the Money Factor still .00146?

    Thanks
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi smirza2000. The easiest way for me to evaluate this deal would be to look at the selling price that your lease was based upon. The selling prices of leased vehicles are negotiable, just as if you were paying cash for or financing them. Let me know how much you paid for your 911 and I'll tell you what I think.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi dwpc. The problem with leasing pre-owned vehicles is that manufacturers usually provide more support on new vehicle leases than on used. As a result, the difference in cost between leasing a CPO vehicle and a similar brand new one is often not nearly as large as one would think it should be.

    If I was interested in leasing a Cayman right now, I personally would go with a 2009 model and take advantage of the lease support that is available on it.

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  • gre09gre09 Member Posts: 9
    To Car Man:

    What are the current lease offers on remaining '09 911 inventory?

    Is the residual 55% or 58% on a 36month/10,000 miles/year lease?

    Is there a current ***promotional???***money factor?

    Thanks
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi blackberryxyz. I always find that the easiest way to evaluate a lease is to look at the selling price that the vehicle that one is interested in is based upon. The selling prices of leased vehicles are negotiable, just as if you were paying cash for or financing them. Without this number, it is difficult to tell how large a dealer discount you are being given.

    Let us know what this 911's selling price is and I'm sure that either myself or another knowledgeable community member will gladly tell you what they think.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hey gre09. Yes, Porsche's special buy rate lease money factor is indeed still .00146 on 2009 models.

    Porsche Financial Services' residual values for the 911 vary by trim level. For instance, its 36-month, 10,000 mile per year resid for an '09 911 Coupe is 56% and the resid for the '09 911 Cab is 54%. I would be happy to give you an idea of what the current residual value is like for the exact model that you are interested in if you describe it to me.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hey gre09. Please see my previous post for my response to your questions. Thanks.

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  • gre09gre09 Member Posts: 9
    The specifics on the '09 911 that I'm looking at is a base Carrera w/ PDK options are:
    -PDK
    -Bose sound pkg.
    -heated/seats/steering wheel
    -pwr seats
    -xm radio
    MSRP: $85K

    On a 36month/10kmiles per year lease what would the residual be? Dealers are all over the place some say 55% others 53%. Please, let me know.

    Thanks
  • anouanou Member Posts: 39
    Does Porsche do dealer "hold back"? What's the best way to figure out dealer cost? Thanks.
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    Kia store is down the road sir. Please address any further inquiries to them.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    Gee... wonder how come Porsche owners have that reputation.... you know the one? :surprise:

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  • anouanou Member Posts: 39
    It's okay. Some people prefer to give their money away to car dealers. Personally, I prefer to give my money to Second Harvest or United Way.

    This is the first time I am buying a Porsche, so I honestly do not know how to evaluate a good deal. Is invoice + $300 a good deal or should I hold out for invoice? Hence the deal hold back question.

    Many thanks.
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    I think you can save the righteous indignation.

    There is a reason why holdback is not listed anywhere. It isn't for you. Expect to pay profit on a vehicle unless you find a leftover model from the recession.
  • bosco42bosco42 Member Posts: 20
    Talk about righteous indignation...keep your panties on madman...he simply asked a question.
    Is it fair to assume that you are a salesman or dealer since you got so bent out of shape with the taboo question about dealer holdback.

    All manufacturers have dealer holdbacks but that is something they dont want the general public to know about. It is not something that is discussed or negotiable. Therefore, even if you buy the car at dealer cost and he gives you a sob story about how he's losing money, the dealer is still making money on the car. However, it is only fair that they make a fair profit or else they couldnt afford to stay in business. What you think is fair is subjective.
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    My panties are firmly in place. :) And yes, I'm a salesman.

    If you like discussing holdback, then Porsche is not for you. You are missing the point of buying a Porsche. It's not about the deal, it's about the car.
  • kdd1kdd1 Member Posts: 2
    This info can be found on www.truecar.com.It is about 1.5% of invoice.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    Actually... this discussion is all about price.. ergo, the category..

    Funny... my local Porsche dealer advertises price in all of their ads... :P

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  • gre09gre09 Member Posts: 9
    CarMan:

    Is Porsche offering any new :Lease deals for the month of December?

    Thanks in advance for the reply.
  • anouanou Member Posts: 39
    Thanks for the information.

    According to the site, truecar.com, the hold back is about $1k. This explains the deals I have been offered (almost invoice - marketing support).

    I am now ready to go get the best deal I can this weekend.
  • anouanou Member Posts: 39
    Thanks everyone for your help. I was able to purchase a 2009 911 coupe near invoice minus marketing support. The MSRP on the car is $85,620 and I paid $69k (before tax & license). According to Edmunds.com, the invoice on the car is $77,151. But with $8k of marketing support, I was able to finish the deal.

    The cool thing is that according to porsche.com, there are only three new cars that would fit my criteria (PDK + memory seat) on the West coast. After spending the whole day on the phone, I was able to purchase one of them.

    First Porsche for me. I am very happy.
  • 29282928 Member Posts: 1
    congratulations! sounds like you got a great dea. how did you figure out the total $8k of marketing support?
  • anouanou Member Posts: 39
    I talked to five car dealers this morning, but 9 dealers overall the whole week. Some of them would not talk about it; some of them pretended not to know about it; but some of them simply came out straight and discussed it.

    Edmunds.com previously posted the marketing support was $7k (since expired on Nov 30th). But from an earlier post, someone talked about $10k marketing support became $8k.

    So both the posts in this forum plus the anecdotal evidence suggested there is still marketing support there (as well as a combination of special lease rate and a smaller dealer cash).

    Hope this helps.

    BTW, in all my dealings, the Porsche dealer @ Livermore was the most straight forward. The price they gave me on day one was almost just as good as the deal I got. If they still have the car, I would have bought it from them. So if someone is interested in a 2008 C4 coupe in black color with many toys, they have a great deal for you.
  • bosco42bosco42 Member Posts: 20
    Will the person who emailed me about my White 2009 C2S several months ago please contact me again...thanks
  • blackberryxyzblackberryxyz Member Posts: 8
    That's a good deal and accurate in the fact that there are not any 2009's left in California.

    I leased a 2009 Carrera 2 demo with PDK, memory seats and an MSRP of 86k and change. The leased was based off price of 71k and change with 7,500 drive off and 800 a month. I'm happy.

    You were lucky to find one that they would still deal on.
  • anouanou Member Posts: 39
    You got a good deal too. Does demo mean the warranty has started, or only means it has a few miles?

    If I were to lease it, the price would have been $73k. The reason I bought versus lease were 1) the sales tax rebate (worth $1.5k to me), 2) I can get nearly the same home equity rate after tax, 3) the additional $4k off.
  • anouanou Member Posts: 39
    My local Porsche dealer just contacted me, saying Porsche gave the dealers additional $1000 marketing support. If this were true, it means the marketing support for 2009 is now $9k.
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    No problem, gre09. I believe that the 55% residual value that you were quoted is the correct one.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi gre09. In addition to the special lease program that you've seen mentioned here, Porsche introduced another $1,000 cash incentive on 2009 models through the end of the year.

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  • smirza2000smirza2000 Member Posts: 9
    Carman,
    Thanks for all the info you have been providing.
    I wanted your and other's feedback on what are usual penalies for ending a lease agreenment before time, say ending a 3 yr in 2 years or one year?
    Thanks.
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    You're very welcome, smirza2000. I am sorry to say that it is usually fairly expensive to get out of leases well before their scheduled end dates. In order to do so, you need to purchase the vehicle that you are currently leasing from the bank that you are leasing it through. It often turns out that it costs more to do so than your vehicle is worth on the open market. Furthermore, many banks expect consumers who end their leases early to still make all, or at least the depreciation portion of their remaining lease payments. As you can see, this can get very expensive.

    You can determine approximately how much it will cost you to get out of your current lease by comparing its purchase price to its value on the open market at this time. You should place a call to the bank that you are leasing your vehicle through to find out its exact price. Once you know exactly how much money it is going to cost you to buy your leased vehicle you need to compare it to its current value on the open market. You can find out approximately what your vehicle is worth by looking up its Edmunds.com True Market Value in the Used Vehicle Pricing section of this site. You also may want to stop by the following discussion: "Real-World Trade-In Values". Don't forget to check to see if you are still on the hook for your remaining lease payments. The difference between your leased vehicle's current value and how much it will cost you to buy it plus any remaining lease payments that you are obligated to pay will equal the cost of getting out of your lease right now. You may find that you are better off waiting until you are closer to the scheduled end of your lease to get another new vehicle.

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  • gmcinvalegmcinvale Member Posts: 1
    I am due to turn in or buy the 2008 Carerra S Coupe I have leased for the past two years. The residual value or buyout on the lease contract is $65.6K. or 66% of sticker price. While this worked to my advantage in the lease, the buyout seems a bit high. My options are to turn it in, buy it or extend the lease on a month to month basis for up to a year. Extension would be at $1300 per month. My question is what would a reasonable residual value percentage be at 24 and 36 months? It's a great car with no blemishes and less than 11,000 miles, so I'm not really eager to get rid of it, but don't want to overpay either.

    Thanks for any help you can give.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Got someone hitting me over the head saying they are getting a 600 dollar a month lease on a Carrera. I know that is not possible so what is the current program on a Carrera and Carrera convertible.
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