Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Porsche 944 and 924
Knowing that there are 113070 n/a 944s and 25107 944 turbos along with just over 170000 924s out there lets get our own forum started and chat up our needs instead of payment options and feature list..lets get down to fuel rail mods, gauge-brake-exhuast upgrades, DME problems, swaybar adjustments! give me a show of hands!!
Tagged:
0
Comments
The 944 was originally announced to the world at the September, 1981 Frankfurt auto show with the U.S. introduction one year later. Upon its introduction the interior of the 944 remained much the same as the 924 while the rear suspension, although improved, retained the VW-derived architecture. In addition to a change in the front suspension control arms, the rear suspension would change with the major revision of the 944 that occurred mid year in 1985. Often times, owners will refer to there 944 as an 85.5, designating the completely redesigned interior and other improvements to the base 944 including; new heater, air conditioning, minor revisions to the bodywork including a flush mounted windscreen, new cats aluminum front A-arms and rear trailing arms suspension components. Although changes where made to the engine, Porsche did not announce any changes to the factory performance specifications. Practical comparison of this watershed model change and it's predecessors indicates performance gains did result however.
At the end of 1985, Porsche announced the 944 Turbo (factory model designation 951) which arrived in the U.S. as a 1986 model. Performance of the 951 was a reminder of the 944's legacy, even in it's toned down production form. Aside from the turbo charged power plant generating 217 hp with 243 ft/lbs of torque, the 951 had other major enhancements over it's normally aspirated brother. Specifically the 951 included aerodynamic polyurethane front bumper/spoiler with new air intakes serving the turbo's intercooler mounted between the headlights under the front panel. Under body panels where added to cleanup air flow beneath the car. This extended to the distinctive air diffuser mounted under the rear of the car to cleanup exiting airflow past the rear end. As well, the 951 received Brembo 4 piston calipers to bring the car to a stop as well as special forged alloy wheels. The suspension received stiffer components to round out the comprehensive performance upgrades. The 951 also has the distinction of being the first sports car to offer both driver-side and passenger-side airbags. Porsche also produced 198 versions of the 944 Turbo as Cup racing cars.
The 944S arrived as a 1987 model year addition with a redesigned 16 valve dual overhead cam engine producing 190 hp. In addition to the increased number of valves and cams, the 944S came with an improved Digital Motor Electronics (DME) system with knock-sensing regulation capabilities. Also included on the base 944, the 944S benefited from the new timing belt tensioner which was implemented for the 1987 model year. As well, the 944S received the Bembo brake calipers with optional ABS. The initial 944S shared the base models bodywork until 1990.
In 1990 Porsche releases the 944 Series 2, designated 944 S2. The S2 was an extensive revision of the 944S which now included the aerodynamic bodywork of the 951. The previous three engines available were replaced by the 3.0 liter's 16 valve engine and a big turbo 2.5 liter 944 Turbo (sold in Europe). As well, a soft-top version of the 944 was introduced, the 944 S2 Cabriolet. The new cabriolet was produced jointly by Porsche and the German division of the American Sunroof Corporation.
Unfortunately for the U.S. market, Porsche offered a Turbo Cabriolet version to the rest of the world through 1991 with the U.S. having the standard S2 Cabriolet to satisfy our open air appetites. Only 625 (non-U.S.-spec) 944 Turbo Cabriolets where built. Unless you know someone abroad who owns one and have driven it, we are left to only dream what a drop head coupe in Turbo form factor would have felt like.
Sorry
944 boy
I towed it home with my 2002 Crown Victoria, and managed to get it running. I've since completely replaced the ENTIRE interior. The previous owner spray painted the entire interior with flat-black (he didn't like the original brown). I ended up replacing about 90% of the interior with all new / used interior items off eBay, the rest I simply repainted with real vinyl paint.
You can check out my progress here if you want...
1984 Porsche 944
good luck Todd it looks really good
and may
the Porsche be with you
944boy
Douglas
I purchased a Haynes, "All porsche repair 83-89, only to find out it didn't include the 944S....
Right now I'm trying to remove the Cam shafts but not sure how to remove the front cam sproket. It doesn't look like a wheel puller will fit, Does anyone know how to get this sproket off, or where I can buy a good repair manual...Thanks
Any and all comments appreciated. I'm the same guy who gets exhaust fumes in the cabin when the windows are down.
thanks
doug
This car was stopped running 4 years ago and then parked. Car needs paint job and will need brake servicing. Probably need to change some of the electrical fuses, but have no idea which to change since like mentioned above, car runs great, engine sounds good, no smoking, etc, when started by turning key and spraying fuel into the intake manifold. But just can't get it to turn over with key switch. Have already replaced throttle valve switch, spark plugs, oil filter, air filter, hoses, fuel filter, cleaned out fuel tank, etc. Interior is in great shape, black leather, console, everything works in it except fuel level gauge, I put in 5 gallons of fuel so I know it has fuel!
Fuel injection system seems to be an L-Jetronic type, apparently a problem in this car. Anybody have any comments on this.
My previous 914, once had a similar problem and I almost tore the whole car apart to later find out that just by replacing a fuse the injection problem was solved. I would hate to have this happen to me again.
A good way to test to make sure everything is ok, is to manually wire a positive lead to the fuel pump directly from the battery. You can do this just to test it out and see how the motor runs before you dump a TON of money into it.
Thanks again,
TonyCEE
This morning I fooled a bit with it and after no gain, I decided to at least start it up by the usual way with the fuel spray and this time nothing !! A loss of yardage !!This afternoon I read on another forum that someone had similar problems and was adviced to check the air flow meter flap, that could be stuck and thus sends the wrong signal to the DME and just stops. Did that, thought I was gonna geter done, but to no avail, the flap was not stuck, happened to be working fine, wether or not it was set correctly I don't know. But I never fooled with it before so it should be OK as it is. Its gotta be something else that is just not clicking. Need advice !!!
Tonycee
It has a serial D in the spot designated for year of manufacture.
The owner is the middle of rebuilding the suspension and can no longer afford keeping it up.
Before I make an offer on it I would really like to know how hard it is to find parts for this car.
I know of a good mechanic, but I would like to hear from actual owners on their experiences with finding and replacing parts - OEM or aftermarket.
And of course, the Porsche dealership. Your best friend will be eBay and salvage yards. Mechanical Porsche parts are expensive. There are often alternatives though. Feel free to e-mail me if you have any questions...
toddjasp@bellsouth.net
In particular on the 944 specifically, the power sunroof tends to stop working and the rear retractable arms tend to become loose. The 944's sunroof requires an extremely tight seal not to leak.
The best thing to do is to have a friend or your girlfriend / wife get out the garden hose and literally douse the top of your car while you sit inside. See if you see any water dripping. You'll be surprised at where it comes from.
Sunroof maintenance requires that you use a rubber conditioner on the seals to keep them plush and not worn out. Also, there are 4 rubber / plastic lines that attach to the drain holes on all four corners of your sunroof opening. These need to be CLEAR of any blockage as your sunroof will almost certainly leak. The best thing to do in this situation is to use your air compressor (you will need one, otherwise buy a can of compressed air) and use the rubber nossle attachment. Place it in the hole making a perfect seal and just have at it. You might find that there was all kinds of garbage in there.
When the sunroof leaks, it's USUALLY in the rear, and it typically pools in the footwell of the 2+2 seats in the back.
If you are 100% positive this is not the case, then the only other place that the 924s and 944s will leak from, are from the quarter glass gaskets and the hatch glass. The gaskets around the quarter glass can go bad. This causes water to fill up in the gasket channels and kind of drip down. On the hatch glass, if you install new hatch shocks, this will almost certainly cause the hatch glass to separate from the hatch frame (yeah, it sucks). Water can then leak in from there.
If you have water leaking on the passenger floor board, then it's probably a rusty battery tray.
Hope that helps.
Oh yeah, also make sure the drain holes in the rear fenders are open. Water will often drain down in there and you'll want to make sure they are open. Also make sure that the two rear drain holes are properly situated so the end of the hoses actually exit the fender.
You'll want to clean this up bad, and if it continues to leak, you MUST cover the car until you can take care of it.
Porsche 944s have a rather unique kind of insulation and padding in the carpet (old school 80s sound deadening). A combination of foam rubber, with jute and cardboard / paper backing will retain water and moisture practically forever. Mold will develop within a matter of weeks, and it can and will get to the point where you'll need to replace the entire interior. I just went through this entire process on my 84 Porsche 944, and it was NOT cheap.
Really, it's kind of a poor design. I've had my 1987 Fiero SE / V6 outside it's entire life, and it has the original sunroof gasket, and the original sunroof, and it's never leaked a day in it's life. It has over 160k miles on it and I used to take the sunroof off almost every time I got in it!
There is no "limiter" or "Governor" on a Porsche 944 as they didn't exist back then. Governors didn't start being installed in vehicles until around the early to mid 90s. (really when OBD2 came into effect in 1996).
Any limiting factors of the 944's top speed would be gearing and / or horsepower.
I would suspect that the motor would run out of horsepower before it runs out of gearing. Being that it only puts out 160? horsepower, you'll probably find yourself stuck at 125-130 miles an hour with an extra 1500rpm left on the tach. At this point the wind resistance exceeds the pulling power of the vehicle, so the motor stops accelerating further.
Thanks,
pitboss29
Thanks in advance,
CJ
CJ
not knowing were to look,can I replace the relay first ? Need Help !!
Tom :confuse:
Couple of things to consider. As with all Porsches, they are often over-engineered. Believe it or not, when you turn the ignition key in an early 944 to the on position. Even if the car isn't running, the VENT fan will run at 1/2 it's lowest speed. This is part of the mandated "flow-through" fresh air venting. The Porsche 944 actually has TWO cabin fan. There is the primary fan which is mounted front and center in the cowl area, this is called the "VENT FAN". The secondary fan is built into the A/C system under the passenger side dash. Although it's really odd... there are two fan controls (as you'll see). There is the huge A/C fan (which only recirculates air through the cabin) and the vent fan which brings in fresh air, and that is controlled by the knob a little bit lower down (to the left of the vent sliders).
So, as I mentioned, the vent fan will ALWAYS run when the key is in the ignition and anywhere other than OFF. If it's running with the key out of the ignition, then you have a problem.
HOWEVER... don't be confused (more about this overengineering stuff). When you've driven your Porsche 944... one of the radiator fans will remain ON (in a slow speed) when you shut the car off. The reason for this was to help lower the temperature of the radiator in case you start the car up again within a short period of time. The technical reason why this happens is because the fan switch is nothing more than a temperature sensor that is mounted on the drivers side rear of the radiator. The fan has a constant hot on one end, and a ground that persists through the sensor. When the sensor is hot (even when the car is off, and the key is out of the ignition) it will run. This is normal (although a bit annoying).
As long as you can make sure that this is what you've been worried about, then you shoudl be OK!
in my garage & not a daily driver,so after a week or two the battery is dead or at least needs a jump. the faint noise is from the the engine's bay, cowl near the firewall/windshield location. I believe the faint noise is the blower unit not turning off. If I disconnect the battery ,it goes off. place the cable back on the noise is there once again. No startup or ign. is needed to cause this problem. So I have to believe it's a relay or switch causing this "closed" circuit ? Where do I start ,the relay ; fresh air blower relay G1 sells for about 10 dollars. Is this it ? & where is it located on the dash? If it's not the relay ,can it be the switch on the DASH as you mentioned?
I can get both parts but would like to eliminate the battery discharge now. Perhaps its the Ign switch ,some one said,but with the key out can there be this problem?
Also... I don't think this is it... but I would check. There is a motor (believe it or not) for the cruis control. In the older 944s (83-85), this motor is located on the rivers side, near the cowl, right inside the engine bay in front of the engine. When these go bad... they just run forever. A quick fix is to simply disconnect it's wiring harness. Not sure if this could be your problem, but I would just check it out to be sure. My 84 944 had a battery discharge problem, and that ended up being the culprit.
Hope that helps.
I would also suggest you check out www.RennList.com it's a really great web site and there are like several thousand people on that list with 944s.
The blower FAN ,sounds to be the problem,since I removed the battery cable the fan turns off,attach the batter leads and on it goes. there is NO key or IGN on .
So is it a RELAY? if so where is it located ? or the next step.....
Tom
I kept some of the really rare pieces (like the Euro front bumper, etc). I do plan to get another one, but when I do I'll probably spend an extra 2 grand up front to save me from having to dump twice that into t later.
I've learned that, at least on a 944... for every $1,000 you save, you end up spending $2,000 to bring it to the condition you would otherwise have if you spent the $1000 in the beginning.
The problem you're having is without a doubt, a problem with your AFM (Air Fuel Meter). That is that grey looking thing with the grey flap in it. It's inline of your intake and it bolts onto the back of your air box. Those get old, and the gradiated sensor on the door gets worn out. I was able to buy a rebuilt one by Python on eBay for $75 bucks. They are pretty expensive. A new one is about $250 bucks. But I guarantee to you that your car will run like brand new.
Another thing to take a look at would be your "reference" sensors. They are located on top of the transmission bell-housing. They normally sell for something like $200 each, BUT... BMW used these same sensors in the 7 series model back in the early 80s. You can buy these for $75, and they are identical in every way... the only difference is that the length of the wires are a little bit longer, but that's not a problem.
I would check the AFM first though.
You could also need a new TPS (throttle position sensor). That's much cheaper, and easier to replace... but I still think it's your AFM.
I would go to RennList.com
If you get bored, check out my site... lots of pictures of my 944 if you're curious about some of the work I've gone through fixing it up.
http://www.PontiacPerformance.Net
unfortunately, I don't have my 944 anymore, but you can see it if you click on "Past Cars" and scroll down to the bottom.
i left the porsche in garage and the water got about 15" high, several inches under the fuses & relays-which they do not appear to be blown except 1 fuse which was replaced. the interior dried out nicely. The oil & filetr was changed. The battery was drained and it recharged fine. I have lights. The engine will not turn over and the only sound is the vent fan and what may be the gasoline pump. I do not see relay for starter listed in owner's manual? since the battery was drained, could the water over the starter fried the starter? or any other possibilities. Please Help! I have restored most of this car at cost of about 18k over last 15 years and really feel bad that we did not have the one more driver to get it to Houston before storm.
Thanks
Ted Labuzan
Basically... the starter COULD very well have been damaged by the water. But you would more than likely at least hear something. There are some easy things you can check, but with respect to the starter itself, there are TWO things you can do. 1) You'll want to check that in fact the IGNITION wire is giving power to the starter. Of course, the heavy gauge battery cable connects to it directly, but secondly, when you start the car, you feed power to the solenoid / starter mechanism which engages the starter. I believe this is your problem. I don't think the starter is getting power from the ignition.
2) You can test the starter on a bench by jumping it with a car charger.
Now, with respect to the ignition, there are TWO things that I can think of initially that would cause this. Does your car have the "factory alarm system"? If you see a lock that's on your drivers side, just behind the drivers side door (and not to be confused with the one in the door), then you have the factory alarm. These fail when they get wet, and I BELIEVE the control box is mounted somewhere on the passenger side floor (maybe under the seat?). Now, this alarm is an immobilizer that actually de-activates the ignition, preventing you from being able to start the car.
The OTHER thing that might cause this, is the DME relay. You should always keep a spare with you, because these can tend to leave you stranded. If the DME relay isn't connected, it would prevent you from being able to start the car. In your car, it's in the second row of the fuse block (where the relays all are) and it's the long one in the back. Refer to the chart in your manual to see specifically where it is.
Good luck!
Todd